When we are in the Theshold, yes. She can arrange it. We die against Anathama, or whatever. She controlls who our "minions" are, after all.
[Exalted, ?] Most High
- Thread starter Rihaku
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Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
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[X] Wake the Sleeper
At which point we prompty decide to, you know, not do what she says. Why the certainty that if we listen to her once, we will do so forever?
Hmm, let's come at the argument from a different angle: Luseng is a death trap and we're being sent there by someone hoping that we'll die horribly.
But who else is going to do this? Serious question here, these threats to Creation aren't going to stop with Luseng. The Gardener will keep going, the Fair Folk will inevitably continue to terrorize and devour the souls of mortals and Exalts alike. The Lunar warlord's horde will grow ever-larger. Is this not a worthy cause? Saving a city, slaying a Deathlord, forging order from chaos? Isn't this kind of shit exactly what Solars are meant to do? Just because Anys Syn set us to the task doesn't mean the task isn't worthwhile.
But who else is going to do this? Serious question here, these threats to Creation aren't going to stop with Luseng. The Gardener will keep going, the Fair Folk will inevitably continue to terrorize and devour the souls of mortals and Exalts alike. The Lunar warlord's horde will grow ever-larger. Is this not a worthy cause? Saving a city, slaying a Deathlord, forging order from chaos? Isn't this kind of shit exactly what Solars are meant to do? Just because Anys Syn set us to the task doesn't mean the task isn't worthwhile.
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Because then we're a fucking rebel and she'll have full reign to mobilize the Realm to destroy us?
Except the bodyguards will have already arrived.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
So, you think that she can flagrantly be trying to kill us and nobody will raise a fuss?
This is "Obviously" a suicide posting, but it was handled through legitimate means (Surely, someone as great and blessed by the Dragons as you can complete this impossible task...) If we actually pull it off, the Great Houses are going to start trying to court our attention, rather than universally send us off to be killed again. When someone does the impossible, they may be expected to do it again, but nobody throws that resource away.
Let's also not forget the chief lesson of Hesiesh, which is to say Cultivating strength and patience until the critical moment. People are going to smell a rat if she responds to us succeeding by stripping us of our resources and tries to kill us again, when we could actually start a katamari and win the fuck out of everything if we actually were allowed to let our gains ride.
She gets away with it this time because we don't have any resources of our own. She can't strip us of them and reassign us without making people wonder why Hesiesh really wants to kill this guy even though he has a good bet at saving the Realm. Since if he saved Luseng with what amounted to being his sword, the clothes off his back, and a bunch of people he's never met before, what could he do with a proper Legion at his back?
"Why is Hesiesh trying to kill one of the greatest Champions of the Realm? That's not the lessons he passed down to us..."
And again, she can't just push the Anathema card at this point because that would destroy her own cover. As soon as she played the "Definitely a blessed Dragon Blooded" card in her Hesiesh persona, she committed herself to playing along with the charade unless she wants to destroy the Immaculate Faith, which will destroy her very ability to influence the Realm openly.
She'd win a battle, and lose the war.
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Emerald Oracle
Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet the Force
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Ultimately, this is why I voted for Luseng over any of the other options. Let's see some of that Glorious Solar Bullshit folks!
We are Yugi Moto now.
A rebel with a loyal and productive Satrapy and a heroic reputation, who has allies like Ivory, Zao, and Nilul working to undermine the Realm from within, is infinitely preferable to being a dead man indebted to the Infernals and who knows how many new enemies. If we survive the crucible that is Luseng, we might even be strong enough to just up and take the bloody Sword.
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Also why the hell wouldn't she merely pull out the "Ulyssian was Anathema and you knew the whole time"card. If she intended to do that even when we're a hero of the Realm known for doing the impossible and getting very loyal supporters(the guys at our Satrapy will be very very fucking loyal to us if we can turn things around. Hell the fact we could raise an army loyal to us even if we're accused of being Anathema is one of Satrapy's benefits.)
I mean according to you guys Zao's fucked anyways because once she outs us as Anathema then Zao as our closest supporter will be hurt by that as well. Hell she'll probably have him killed to prevent him from trying a stunt like this again.
Not to mention how people will find it strange after being hailed as being blessed by dragons by Hessiah himself. I mean why would an immaculate dragon do that instead of just saying off with his head? That would implies that he was either tricked or thought to use the Anathema both of which hurts her Charade.
There's a reason she's didn't just send a Wyld Hunt after us. She can't be too overt without risking her charade and with each success that grows our legend and fame, it'll be harder and harder for her to attack us without causing the entire house of cards to fall.
I mean according to you guys Zao's fucked anyways because once she outs us as Anathema then Zao as our closest supporter will be hurt by that as well. Hell she'll probably have him killed to prevent him from trying a stunt like this again.
Not to mention how people will find it strange after being hailed as being blessed by dragons by Hessiah himself. I mean why would an immaculate dragon do that instead of just saying off with his head? That would implies that he was either tricked or thought to use the Anathema both of which hurts her Charade.
There's a reason she's didn't just send a Wyld Hunt after us. She can't be too overt without risking her charade and with each success that grows our legend and fame, it'll be harder and harder for her to attack us without causing the entire house of cards to fall.
And the Realm happily goes to slaughter their latest hero. Especially the Navy and the Satrapy we just saved.
Eh, too much sarcasm.
Yes, Hesiesh's influence is not as absolute as Cavalier makes it seem. Syn is a good liar with a lot of religious credibility, but there are weaknesses to her charade. Where are the other Elemental Dragons? Why isn't she stepping forward to fight openly? Why deploy one of the Anathema? Did she not know of our nature, and is thus fallible, or did she know what we were all along, making her sinful? The strength of the Sidereals has always been their ability to attack problems from oblique angles, vanishing into the ether, wearing identities like cloaks. They're not meant to stand and fight, to openly inspire. She's discarded that advantage by putting all her eggs in a basket called Hesiesh.
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[X] Cavalier
[X] Keep Ambition
[X] Wake the Sleeper
[X] Keep Ambition
[X] Wake the Sleeper
- Location
- Southern Virginia
I've had it with being assailed by a half-dozen posters, all of whom don't seem to understand that control of the institutions of the Realm means control of the institutions of the Realm. Who refuse to acknowledge any kind of timetable here and who don't think that, having thrown away the rulebook once, Anys Syn won't do it again. Her control of the Immaculate Order is absolute and the social order they represent is not lightly repudiated by the Dynasts, since their privilege rests on it. Being a hypocrite is perfectly fine if you have too much power for anyone to call you on it; an act of rank perfidy, if it results in obtaining that power, will be forgiven just as readily.
You can probably make this work but only because Rihaku will be lenient. If Anys Syn wants to fuck Ulyssian up she can do so with minimal effort given her control over the Realm's formal institutions. The sheer hubris involved in assuming she won't escalate further because "hurr hurr Ulyssian is a hero" is madness. Ask Belisarius or Yi Sun-sin or Wallenstein or Yue Fei about how their military success and popularity shielded them against reprisals from their governments.
You can probably make this work but only because Rihaku will be lenient. If Anys Syn wants to fuck Ulyssian up she can do so with minimal effort given her control over the Realm's formal institutions. The sheer hubris involved in assuming she won't escalate further because "hurr hurr Ulyssian is a hero" is madness. Ask Belisarius or Yi Sun-sin or Wallenstein or Yue Fei about how their military success and popularity shielded them against reprisals from their governments.
Yep the hero who was called blessed by the dragons by Hessiah himself. And went on to prove it by taking on an Elder Lunar who is allied with the Bull of the North,Fae lords, Deathlords and their armies in a place everyone though was fucked and succeeded.
No way that won't backfire.
Exactly she officially supports us as Hesiesh and can't take that support away without potentially revealing herself.
She's playing out of her element with this move which is why even she admits that Kejack would tell her she was being a total fucking idiot to this.
I mean this entire situation at Luseng
is not only the type of stuff Solars were meant overcome but it also plays into Ulyssian's strength both as a warrior and a commander. There's a reason he was put in charge of the entire Exalted Host as their military leader.
Of course we also potentially have the Terror of Odyissial to play on the Deathlords and the Fae. That could be good or bad depending on how they react to us. If it's good then that could be a huge advantage for us.
Honesty we can't truly make a plan for Luseng until we know exactly what title we have and exactly what we have at our disposal so trying to make specific plans at this stage is redundant. Which is why the plans have been more generalized.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
She controls One institution of the Realm absolutely, but others only in as far as she plays the part
They are loyal to "The Immaculate Faith" and what it represents. Some of the Immaculates know the existence of Sidereals as secret helpers of the Order, but the amount who actually know it's objectively a sham can probably be counted on your fingers.
You can't have faith in something you know is a lie. Her playing the Hesiesh Card was a powerful move, but it puts the foundation of the Immaculate Order at risk in exchange for immediate temporal power. You can't touch an ideal, but a flesh and blood being? Not quite so immortal.
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Heshiesh isn't actually known in public. Tepet Fokuf, the heads of the Great Houses, and the Mouth of Peace signed a decree offering him assignments. The regent and the Great Houses coincidentally all need to be swept away by Resolute Flame, and seeing through the Anathema that even the Mouth of Peace couldn't is kind of a narrative one might use for the Messiah. The heads of the Houses of course might know 'Hesiesh' convinced them of this, but well Anys is going to betray and kill them all anyway for her ultimate coup, isn't she?
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
Assailed? Trying to discuss the points you are bringing up is assailing you?
So what are the heads doing between now and then? Sitting there quietly, following her instructions until they inevitably get put on the chopping block? Or covertly bucking harder and harder as she tries to pave the way for Flame, forcing her to expend more and more effort to do so (after having called in every favor and scrap of influence she had to make this work in the first place) - helped along by Zao and Nilul?
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Killing all the Dragon-Blooded Elders would both weaken the Realm and weaken her, so I don't think she'd go for it, not after the Realm has lost so many of its strongest Exalts so recently.
Her power over the Order all hinges on a lie, so it is by definition not absolute. Nobody is saying the option lacks risk, but Fading Away indebts us to the Infernals and picks a bunch of new fights that we really don't need on top of our existing problems. You want to take down a Deathlord that's threatening Creation? We have one available in Luseng: the Gardener.
Syn only pulled this off because of the opening our slaying of Polemgaos gave her, and had to play her trump card on top of that. That tells me her power isn't uncontestable; Zao's influence in the Realm remains considerable; even with all Syn did, he could still have gotten us into the Navy, it just would've resulted in blowback.
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I'd imagine it'd be a hard sell to get Flame on the throne, when the houses know for a fact that they just send the guy who's better at everything than him forever on a suicide post (and somehow actually succeeding at turning everything around?)
one of the house is going to call shenanigan if anys try for round two, especially if she's pushing for emperor flame
by having all the houses signed off on Ulyssian's posting, it's also setting up opening from which to attack Anys from, should we succeed. If anything, the house would use Ulyssian to challenge Anys' push for emperor flame if we manage to finish solving everyone's problem in Satrapy before Flame ascends and gain enough power to enforce his reign (so ~20 years for the first brood?)
one of the house is going to call shenanigan if anys try for round two, especially if she's pushing for emperor flame
by having all the houses signed off on Ulyssian's posting, it's also setting up opening from which to attack Anys from, should we succeed. If anything, the house would use Ulyssian to challenge Anys' push for emperor flame if we manage to finish solving everyone's problem in Satrapy before Flame ascends and gain enough power to enforce his reign (so ~20 years for the first brood?)
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Except for a few teensy tiny detail
And what does the immaculate religion say again? Oh right "GIVE ABSOLUTELY NO QUARTER TO ANATHEMA OR YOU ARE A HERETIC."
Not having us killed as soon as "Hessiah" reappeared is going to make her look mighty suspicious once we make ourselves a hero of the realm by beating back deathlords, Fae, and a Lunar ally of the Bull of the North. A hero who was sent there because he was recognized by the 12 House Heads and the Mouth of Peace as having the favor of the Immaculate Dragons.
Ulyssian even says it's pretty much impossible to get all 12 House Heads to agree. This letter was endorsed by them and the Mouth of Peace.
This letter that says Ulyssian is and I quote "especially blessed by the Dragons. Protected by Their Grace,"
If we can turn Luseng around then that pretty much confirms to everyone that we're especially blessed and protected by the dragons. That is going to draw people to us. Because we are clearly a Savior sent by the "dragons themselves." All 12 House Heads agree on this and they never agree on anything!
Anys goes against any of that then she risks destroying the immaculate faith. Which destroys her power base completely.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
Is Syn's plan really to decapitate all the Great Houses?
Zao too probably: if Flame is suddenly Emperor'd because hey, Shogun, the real Last Shogun is probably going to need to go.
It seems like kind of a ' cut off your nose to spite your face' kind of plan.
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