Bending it to your will is 'marginally more difficult than time travel and true resurrection'.
Clearly, Captain Planet won't be stopped by such pitiful obstacles.
[Exalted, ?] Most High
- Thread starter Rihaku
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- exalted (white wolf)
Clearly, Captain Planet won't be stopped by such pitiful obstacles.
- Location
- The savanna.
Long as she doesn't betray us? Yeah.
Makes everybody who was terrified she'd run off with it seems kinda silly, doesn't it?
Her knowing the complete truth is a big problem because she has no talent for deception. And with the scrutinity on Uly that's a very bad thing.
Also Zao has made pretty clear what sort of assassins Uly can expect now that he's his heir.
If she has to know the truth and stay near him she'll have to use the Sword to simply survive, and Ulyssian already needs it to protect himself.Zao said:
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
So if Bob the Hunter was handed the sword, it would give him that impossible will. He would train like
- Location
- The savanna.
Good thing we've got an artifact that focuses on inculcating talent and protecting our interests.
It's in our interests that she not be able to reveal our secret accidentally, so it will help her build the talent needed for that. Moon will become a better, stronger person. She'll be able to deceive. A good thing in Dynastic politics, imo. That's... why we want to give her the sword in the first place.
He would coincidentally stumble onto a Sidereal conspiracy in the empty woods, and proceed to dismantle it with prejudice, because they're messing with his fucking forest.
Because Ambition always finds a way.
:lol
And I don't want to give her a reason to use the Sword because it is already sorely needed by Ulyssian.
Ah well, looks like the Truth & Sword choice will win anyway, hopefully I'm overreacting.
If he could do that, he wouldn't worry about Moon dying, as he could just revive her. You cannot turn Ambition's power boost towards subverting it.
- Location
- The savanna.
I hope you are too. We all want what's best for Ulyssian, I just happen to think an awesome waifu with Sidereal kung fu is a pretty damned good thing.
SirLagginton
Shadow Cabal Caerbannog Bun-Bun
- Location
- Arrrghhh
Anys Syn?!
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Do you know what might be the first thing that Moon improves in herself when she gets the impossible drive to improve herself? Improving her drive to improve herself, so that even when she gives the sword back, she can still keep doing that at her previous rate (or near it). 
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For an outside observer the conclusion seems more than a bit obvious but her conditioning really seems to do a number on her.
The part about what kind of person Pearl was is interesting though. Probably not all that objective but I suppose it makes sense that she and Ody probably bonded over how much they hated the Primordials and it frames her seeking him out over how many of them he slaughtered appear in a rather intrigueing light.
Well, luckily we actually have such proof.
Though it's admittedly rather impressive this way.
Manages to give each of these rather short moments in this sequence a fitting amount of gravitas.
I do rather like how quickly she managed to recover her composure here though.
Someone as strong as Ivory/Pearl doesn't need more than a few moments tor ecover from something like this.
I don't even regret for amoment all the stuff invested in getting Pearl back.
Still, it's interesting that she apparently decided to keep calling him Uly, at least for now.
I suppose it makes sense that that was more about quickly illustrating Zao's new expectations given that it did seem a bit weird as an immediate goal.
Hell, there's even a good chance she'd think his denseness was part of the act since, someone with enough csocial acumen to mislead that well would have to be capable of getting that much, and that's just unbelievably hurtful to find out.
It continues to remind us of the signficance of their relationship, emphasizes how strong Odyssial was as a person and at the same time shows how strong Zao is and how hard it is to gainsay someone like him.
I'm left to wonder whether Uly is even consciously using the exact same phrasing as an act of rebellion or whether he just learned that much from him.
That's the problem with competent people rationalizing their emotionally driven decisions, they still end up having good reasons not easily discarded for doing what they do.
I do have to wonder how Sidereals and Elder Dynasts would necessarily get to her when Zao is probably going to watch her like a hawk, regardless of what she's told.
"Wanna get something to eat, Uly?", "Nah, it's Tuesday. An Abyssal should be here in two hours."
Still, it should probably be something that can be handled by not spending that much time with her in positions easily attacked or hard for her to retreat from, until she's capable enough not to be a pure burden during such things.
From a logical perspective Moon may easily be more useful with us, especially since she so far doesn't have the bloodline to rise high in the Realm, and from the perspective of where Moon would be happiest Zao may be underestimating how much this "revelation" would hurt her in contrast to having to abandon her position here at the Academy.
Not to mention that I think it was Orm put it best when he said that Flame and Moon teaming up to put down the soulless demon possessing the empty shell of Sesus Ulyssian is not something I'd look forward to.
1460 words
The chapter title is surprisingly straightforward for once, though also at least slightly misleading given that there isn't too much of a connection between Ivory and Moon themselves here.
I rather like how mature Uly is approaching this. I'm not actually sure this attitude was that present in the thread itself, but that may jsut be me misremembering stuff.
Then again it might just have something to do with Uly reckognizing she was having a breakdown and caring enough for her to back off if necessary.
It's interesting how he apparently remembers more about here than himself, but part of that is probably that Odyssial's impressions of another superbeing are much easier to parse than the more involved memories of a superbeing's thought processes.
I feel like how heavily she stumbles with the pronouns and especially how she actually notices it, corrects herself and still doesn't come to the conclusion that she might actually be the same person drives home how deeply she really was brainwashed.
For an outside observer the conclusion seems more than a bit obvious but her conditioning really seems to do a number on her.
The part about what kind of person Pearl was is interesting though. Probably not all that objective but I suppose it makes sense that she and Ody probably bonded over how much they hated the Primordials and it frames her seeking him out over how many of them he slaughtered appear in a rather intrigueing light.
Yeah, that's just depressing. Using all that massive guilt to distract Ivory from the almost obvious is really just cruel, though I suppose it's probably more of a sign of just how hard they had to work to keep the indoctrination up as opposed to being pure sadism.
It's still rather cruel how the Bornze Faction is using that both Ivory and Pearl are fundamentally good people in order to camflage the inconsistencies in their narrative.
It's really interesting how Uly getting closer to a convincing argument flares up the hysteria again. Especially visible in the last sentence here, which is both not really related to the previous argument and was in fact already adressed last update.
The parallel here is a rather good one and it's once again a remarkebly mature stance to take on these things. I'm actually surprised at how little "They were the evil ones!" is contained in these arguments, but I can't argue that going with a more reasonable "She chose what she thought was right" isn't much more likely to work.
She may be calling herself a monster now, but self-depreciation is only a few steps away from acceptance, so we're totally making progress!
Aww, how sweet of him.
So at least her breakdown is over, even if she isn't convinced quite yet.
Well, luckily we actually have such proof.
The obvious stumbling is still there though, so I don't doubt the necessity of getting rid of the brainwashing fully for amoment.
To be honest I'm a bit disapointed the act of spending 320k XP doesn't have more than the single sentence devoted to it.
Though it's admittedly rather impressive this way.
Really like it whenever you can draw lines from a signficant moment as his first Exaltation towards Artifacts of the scale of Ambition. Helps to give them the kind of weight they deserve and connect them to their creator more intimately, which is only right.
Hmm, so it seems like her previous calm was likely just one more defensive mechanism so she wouldn't have to confront the actual claim.
Nice how he's referred to as Odyssial in this particular instance, which seems only appropriate since it has far more to do with his story.
Probably shows that we shouldn't underestimate Ivory's capacity to deal with revelations like this either.
Though I can't help but think a lot of it is false bravado.
Really liking the singel lines standing on their own here.
Manages to give each of these rather short moments in this sequence a fitting amount of gravitas.
That's just so very touching.
I do rather like how quickly she managed to recover her composure here though.
Someone as strong as Ivory/Pearl doesn't need more than a few moments tor ecover from something like this.
Gotta love that optimism and bright outlook here.
Uly actually initiating banter is just too good and seeing him have enough sense to move to lighter topics is awesome as well.
I don't even regret for amoment all the stuff invested in getting Pearl back.
Heh.
Still, it's interesting that she apparently decided to keep calling him Uly, at least for now.
He's surprisingly good at this.
And Ivory's petulant side is just pure awesome.
Odyssial is unbelievably good at teasing Pearl. Though given that deadpan teasing is the objectively best way to deal with petulant adults in the shape of a little girl I shouldn't be too surprised at this.
So adorable!
I just have to love this transition. I literally don't have the option not to. That overly serious narration makes for too hilarious a contrast.
Walking over here sure was productive.
Still just as hilarious.
I'm just going to assume this meant "when I'm busy", because after reading it thrice it otherwise still doesn't really make sense.
I have a feeling learning under how now should end up hilarious. She's going to have entirely too much fun with Odyssial during her lessons.
So his actual plan isn't centered around taking over Sesus in a year?
I suppose it makes sense that that was more about quickly illustrating Zao's new expectations given that it did seem a bit weird as an immediate goal.
Well, that's not good.
Really hating how we don't have enough IC knowledge to bullshit our way into that particular conclusion.
And once again I'm reminded of the fact that we still have no freaking idea what the hell Sfor is like.
And as expected Zao is absolutely unwilling to move even a single inch.
Sums up the situation pretty much completely.
Hell, there's even a good chance she'd think his denseness was part of the act since, someone with enough csocial acumen to mislead that well would have to be capable of getting that much, and that's just unbelievably hurtful to find out.
I'm really liking this part.
It continues to remind us of the signficance of their relationship, emphasizes how strong Odyssial was as a person and at the same time shows how strong Zao is and how hard it is to gainsay someone like him.
I do love how they mirror each other.
I'm left to wonder whether Uly is even consciously using the exact same phrasing as an act of rebellion or whether he just learned that much from him.
It's kind of a shame he has reasonable arguments to back his demands up.
That's the problem with competent people rationalizing their emotionally driven decisions, they still end up having good reasons not easily discarded for doing what they do.
I do have to wonder how Sidereals and Elder Dynasts would necessarily get to her when Zao is probably going to watch her like a hawk, regardless of what she's told.
I hadn't actually expected assassination attempts from Celestial Exalted to be this regular a thing.
"Wanna get something to eat, Uly?", "Nah, it's Tuesday. An Abyssal should be here in two hours."
Still, it should probably be something that can be handled by not spending that much time with her in positions easily attacked or hard for her to retreat from, until she's capable enough not to be a pure burden during such things.
Well, onsidering that we are apparently Creations greatest hope, shouldn't we extract whatever resources we can, if discovered anyways? And wouldn't an Exalt of Moon's talent certainly count as an extremely potent one? And what has she really gained in the Realm that, apart from Uly himself, sorely disappointed her so far that she can't gain elsewhere so far?
From a logical perspective Moon may easily be more useful with us, especially since she so far doesn't have the bloodline to rise high in the Realm, and from the perspective of where Moon would be happiest Zao may be underestimating how much this "revelation" would hurt her in contrast to having to abandon her position here at the Academy.
Well, personally, I don't think of marrying her much anyways, but this is just way too shit thing for me to accept regardless of waifu stuff.
Not to mention that I think it was Orm put it best when he said that Flame and Moon teaming up to put down the soulless demon possessing the empty shell of Sesus Ulyssian is not something I'd look forward to.
1460 words
Quick, pass the brain bleach!
Ambition allows non-Ulyssian wielders to access a Sidereal Martial Art centering around his themes.
The hell you can't. Are you underestimating Captain Planet?!
On a more serious note, we've already got something of a confirmation that Zao getting the sword leads to the Imperial March background music, and that getting the sword back isn't going to be so simple. Maybe he convinces the sword that he's better at being Odyssial than Odyssial himself. Maybe he turns it by proving that killing Odyssial can only be beneficial in the long term.
Who knows? I certainly don't, and I'm not so eager to find out.
SirLagginton
Shadow Cabal Caerbannog Bun-Bun
- Location
- Arrrghhh
I threw up a little in my mouth.
Me too, man. Me too.I threw up a little in my mouth.
It was more that it would be very helpful, but there would be major consequences, not all of them good. The risk is not that he would murder us, it is that an empowered Zao claiming the throne means an empowered Zao has claimed the throne. With all the consequences thereof.The hell you can't. Are you underestimating Captain Planet?!
On a more serious note, we've already got something of a confirmation that Zao getting the sword leads to the Imperial March background music, and that getting the sword back isn't going to be so simple. Maybe he convinces the sword that he's better at being Odyssial than Odyssial himself. Maybe he turns it by proving that killing Odyssial can only be beneficial in the long term.
Who knows? I certainly don't, and I'm not so eager to find out.
Murdering Uly is sort of a requirement for keeping the sword.
It is directly stated that trying will have the sword betray the wielder at the optimal time if they try to kill us.
Well, during the Reaction I mentioned a few arguments that amy help with Persuasion, so I'll just repeat them here for psoterity. (Mainly because it's been so long since we actually discussed convincing him through regular means that I have no idea whether they were already mentioend.)
1. Moon can't deceive Elder Dynasts/Siddies.
- How would they get on the campus and to talk with Moon privately? Isn't Zao using his wind bullshit to supervise everything simultaneously?
2. Celestial Exalted assassins that kill her in the crossfire.
- There aren't that many of them, precaustions can probably be made and to be honest from a very rational perspective (which Zao is pretending he's taking) if she takes a blow for the only one who can save Creation that's basically a good thing?
Well, I can understand that she'd be a hindrance for the time being, but the point is that after a certain point she even more than any canon fodder DBs would be an asset supporting our odds of survival even if being there at all puts her in danger personally, so there's a lot to be said for just taking enough precautions to tide her over until then, which in turn might give Uly more clues to Zao's secret motivations.
3. She'd have to run with Uly, if Uly has to run.
- Doesn't she have just as few other friends as Uly, one of which is Nilul, the other Anathema, and isn't Uly one of the only things that actually lived up to her dreasm about the Realm?
And wouldn't she be doing much more good assisting the biggest cahnce to save Creation as opposed to being a Lost Egg with little chance of social advancement?
Just endeavor to take Ivory and Nilul with us if we leave and there's a pretty good chance that being on the run with Uly would make her happier and more useful than breaking her heart as brutaly as we possibly could.
1. Moon can't deceive Elder Dynasts/Siddies.
- How would they get on the campus and to talk with Moon privately? Isn't Zao using his wind bullshit to supervise everything simultaneously?
2. Celestial Exalted assassins that kill her in the crossfire.
- There aren't that many of them, precaustions can probably be made and to be honest from a very rational perspective (which Zao is pretending he's taking) if she takes a blow for the only one who can save Creation that's basically a good thing?
Well, I can understand that she'd be a hindrance for the time being, but the point is that after a certain point she even more than any canon fodder DBs would be an asset supporting our odds of survival even if being there at all puts her in danger personally, so there's a lot to be said for just taking enough precautions to tide her over until then, which in turn might give Uly more clues to Zao's secret motivations.
3. She'd have to run with Uly, if Uly has to run.
- Doesn't she have just as few other friends as Uly, one of which is Nilul, the other Anathema, and isn't Uly one of the only things that actually lived up to her dreasm about the Realm?
And wouldn't she be doing much more good assisting the biggest cahnce to save Creation as opposed to being a Lost Egg with little chance of social advancement?
Just endeavor to take Ivory and Nilul with us if we leave and there's a pretty good chance that being on the run with Uly would make her happier and more useful than breaking her heart as brutaly as we possibly could.
Then he'll try for indirect means. Zao's certainly crafty enough to think of something.
Which still results in Ambition betraying him. While you have Ambition, everything you do is going to help us. Expecting Zao to betray us when he has it is a bad fear. Being wary of the sort of things he would do with relentless drive and a huge power up is rational. Fearing that he will kill us for it/with it is not.
You what's the safest? Keeping Ambition for ourself.
No one gets corrupted by it, no one has their personality warped by it, Uly gets to defend himself with a bespoke Artifact N/A as opposed to a random Artifact 4.
While you hold Ambition, everything you do is bent towards Odyssial's ultimate goals. Normally, that means what you said. With Zao, he might swing it so that killing us in some elaborate way advances things towards those goals more quickly.
We're reincarnating anyway, so it's not a big deal, right?