Even Further Beyond [Complete]

Is there a way for us to grow our Extrusion's power? It is a universe now, but that's 'merely' Stage I Titan. Can we develop an agglomeration of death-related Worlds like decay, rot, ruin to improve it's power level? Or does it not need to improve to be equal / superior to EFB Extrusion of a higher Stage Titan?
We were told that 'the conceptual dominion of a Titan married to an Immortal's raw power allowed him to manifest the equivalent of an orthodox Titan's Extrusion'. I take it to mean that the Extrusion's power is based on our own inner stores, hence why it's a scaling multiplier.

Speaking about Stages, there is something incredibly suspicious about Kong's progress. With all our multipliers, it will take us 10,000 months or more to do Stage 9. That's slightly less than a thousand years.

A Stage IV Titan (he is at peak this Stage) is equivalent of Stage 10.9 in normal terms, and should take him much longer than four thousand years given the general trend of Stage time increases.

How did he manage toget there at all? We got to 7.9 due to Thriesiel's sacrifice, but Kong took more than 230 years to breach Titanic levels.

How is he managing to grow to his level, even with the Overgrowth's materials? His Emanation might be unbelievably bullshit, I suppose. But I doubt it can equal all our multipliers.
Why do you think that the Overgrowth couldn't give him the necessary Essence? Monster Vault equivalents provide ridiculous cultivation multipliers, and his Space domain is pretty well-suited for exploring such a Realm or running away if he met something too dangerous to hunt down.
 
Why do you think that the Overgrowth couldn't give him the necessary Essence? Monster Vault equivalents provide ridiculous cultivation multipliers, and his Space domain is pretty well-suited for exploring such a Realm or running away if he met something too dangerous to hunt down.
I don't think it can because Kong would have to eat them, which is less efficient compared to Essence transfer. The Overgrowth also feels like a relatively recent addition. In addition, the mere light exertion of any trans-Titanic beasts (he'd need those to advance quickly without Essence transfer at his level) would definitely cause very large effects on the world and large scale annihilation from such a battle sounds hard to contain.


 
Yeah,I curious about Overgrown too.

Even Nameless need trans-titanic Doom Beast to grown stronger but in Overgrown we only know about scrub tier like reality forming and Grand solipsism.

I don't think he can gain any relevant stage with that level of monster and Nameless suppose to have true refining to boost the material.
 
I don't think it can because Kong would have to eat them, which is less efficient compared to Essence transfer. The Overgrowth also feels like a relatively recent addition. In addition, the mere light exertion of any trans-Titanic beasts (he'd need those to advance quickly without Essence transfer at his level) would definitely cause very large effects on the world and large scale annihilation from such a battle sounds hard to contain.


It's less efficient, but that's like saying achieving his level in months/years is less efficient than doing so in days/weeks. And while the Overgrowth is relatively recent, he still had objective years to exploit it, even if we ignore possible time dilation effects - which seem likely for someone with a Space domain. A lot of his power should also come from doing the equivalent of EFBing the Titanic Ascension Stage, which might require insights rather than piling up Essence.

As for possibly destroying the world during trans-Titanic fights, I don't doubt there was a lot of collateral damage involved, but the Overgrowth is probably so large that nothing got out.
 
It's less efficient, but that's like saying achieving his level in months/years is less efficient than doing so in days/weeks. And while the Overgrowth is relatively recent, he still had objective years to exploit it, even if we ignore possible time dilation effects - which seem likely for someone with a Space domain. A lot of his power should also come from doing the equivalent of EFBing the Titanic Ascension Stage, which might require insights rather than piling up Essence.

As for possibly destroying the world during trans-Titanic fights, I don't doubt there was a lot of collateral damage involved, but the Overgrowth is probably so large that nothing got out.
Or you know we can kill the fate first,Heaven should be durable than mortal plane.:p

I want to kill Fate in Heaven and we don't need to kill the heroine to complete our vengeance trait.

We can prove Tyranshal that we can be mercy if heroine is that good as ruler and kinder.

Drainher essence and Crown of Tragedy her then made her ruler as a husk/corpse empress of Empire.

Kind of golden throne method that she will rule wisely and beloved but also eternal tormented.
 
We can prove Tyranshal that we can be mercy if heroine is that good as ruler and kinder.
Drainher essence and Crown of Tragedy her then made her ruler as a husk/corpse empress of Empire.

Kind of golden throne method that she will rule wisely and beloved but also eternal tormented.
>We can be merciful
>Drain, brainwash and torture her eternally
I don't think our interpretation of mercy is the same as Tyranshal's. :p
 
Stage 7.9 all out attack was Worldbreaker level, and Kong is several orders of magnitude above that. Kong going all out should have effects far beyond just a continent about a hundred times the size of Asia. At Stage 14.4, destroying suns is casual for him, after all. The empire isn't sun-sized.
 
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Stage 7.9 all out attack was Worldbreaker level, and Kong is several orders of magnitude above that. Kong going all out should have effects far beyond just a continent about a hundred times the size of Asia. At Stage 14.4, destroying suns is casual for him, after all. The empire isn't sun-sized.
Kong contains infinities. As a Realm he created (or an effect of his Emanation/Extrusion/Incarnation), the Overgrowth might not be limited to being world- or even galaxy-sized.
 
Stage 7.9 all out attack was Worldbreaker level, and Kong is several orders of magnitude above that. Kong going all out should have effects far beyond just a continent about a hundred times the size of Asia. At Stage 14.4, destroying suns is casual for him, after all. The empire isn't sun-sized.
But the Overgrowth very well might be.

Remember, he has EFB TA, so his Extrusion and Emanation should be comparable to ours, only focused on growth and space.
 
I mean, Azure Flare allows us to ignore effects of Fate while Acting as Truth, which should have obvious benefits while fighting Fates, and Vengeful ensures that we will act according to our principles when fighting them.

I'd rather have flexibility for the fight with Kong, since they don't need the ludicrous measures that the Heroine needs. It would also help us preserve the Empire in ways that Azure Flare simply couldn't.

The problem, of course, is if the Divine Realms have mental effects that count as natural which change our nature enough that it's no longer in our nature to fight them, even for a bit, in which case we shrivel up and die. I would really prefer Incarnation before trying to Flare.

This seems somewhat unlikely? I don't think the Fates have the same level of power in Heaven that they do on Earth.

Regarding being scaled up like that, the argument above also applies and it likely wouldn't be scaled up much anyway. The last stage of power does after all have far more essence than the one before it.

This doesn't seem very likely either. That would make the level adjustment somewhat pointless.

Is there a way for us to grow our Extrusion's power? It is a universe now, but that's 'merely' Stage I Titan. Can we develop an agglomeration of death-related Worlds like decay, rot, ruin to improve it's power level? Or does it not need to improve to be equal / superior to EFB Extrusion of a higher Stage Titan?

Speaking about Stages, there is something incredibly suspicious about Kong's progress. With all our multipliers, it will take us 10,000 months or more to do Stage 9. That's slightly less than a thousand years.

A Stage IV Titan (he is at peak this Stage) is equivalent of Stage 10.9 in normal terms, and should take him much longer than four thousand years given the general trend of Stage time increases.

How did he manage toget there at all? We got to 7.9 due to Thriesiel's sacrifice, but Kong took more than 230 years to breach Titanic levels.

How is he managing to grow to his level, even with the Overgrowth's materials? His Emanation might be unbelievably bullshit, I suppose. But I doubt it can equal all our multipliers.

We know that eye based Heterodoxy can dramatically accelerate Cultivation. Both our Emanation and Extrusion can be applied to gathering Essence, so it's probably safe to assume his can as well. His version of Truth is probably different to ours but likely has comparable utility effects that he could use for this purpose as well. And his Cultivation Science could act as a version of our Phial and/or Refining.

Combine that with a 5000 year head start, I'm not surprised that he could reach Stage IV, especially if he was boosted by Winter's Artifacts or Naturalism.
 
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Disregard Azure Flare
Acquire True Incarnation
Profit


Acting as truth is nice and all, and probably lets us sacrifice our entire cultivation base to kill someone really powerful.

The major problem with that is there is more than one fate, and probably Kong after.

Therefore I say we ignore it entirely at this point. While I can see a need for flaring truth to strip back illusions it is still horrifically expensive, and many illusions would fail to effect us with incarnate anyway.

Arguments as to Magnum opus aside, true incarnation also outright allows us to get at least one more true spell, possibly more.

These are incredibly versatile and heavily shake our capabilities.

Oh, and if nothing else it also reduces the costs of casting true spells currently, which could be non-negligible given we will probably spam amplification constantly.

The extra stages of instant power are just Cherry on top.
 
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I'd rather have flexibility for the fight with Kong, since they don't need the ludicrous measures that the Heroine needs. It would also help us preserve the Empire in ways that Azure Flare simply couldn't.



This seems somewhat unlikely? I don't think the Fates have the same level of power in Heaven that they do on Earth.



This doesn't seem very likely either. That would make the level adjustment somewhat pointless.



We know that eye based Heterodoxy can dramatically accelerate Cultivation. Both our Emanation and Extrusion can be applied to gathering Essence, so it's probably safe to assume his can as well. His version of Truth is probably different to ours but likely has comparable utility effects that he could use for this purpose as well. And his Cultivation Science could act as a version of our Phial and/or Refining.

Combine that with a 5000 year head start, I'm not surprised that he could reach Stage IV, especially if he was boosted by Winter's Artifacts or Naturalism.
Except Space also fails under the domain of Azure Flair, so it super counters majority of what he can do.
 
Disregard Azure Flare
Acquire True Incarnation
Profit


Acting as truth is nice and all, and probably lets us sacrifice our entire cultivation base to kill someone really powerful.

The major problem with that is there is more than one fate, and probably Kong after.

Therefore I say we ignore it entirely at this point. While I can see a need for flaring truth to strip back illusions it is still horrifically expensive, and many illusions would fail to effect us with incarnate anyway.

Arguments as to Magnum opus aside, true incarnation also outright allows us to get at least one more true spell, possibly more.

These are incredibly versatile and heavily shake our capabilities.

Oh, and if nothing else it also reduces the costs of casting true spells currently, which could be non-negligible given we will probably spam amplification constantly.

The extra stages of instant power are just Cherry on top.
That's an incredibly pessimistic interpretation of Azure Flare that makes it out to be nigh-useless for most purposes. Taking revenge on the Fates is entirely in line with our true nature - there might be doubts and arguments about doing so to the Heroine if she's lucky enough, but they get no such discounts.

If we want to kill something really bad, then we take the True Diagram for it instead of trying to finagle something with Truespells or Artifacts.

PS: We don't need to spam Amplification, it's a Grand.
 
Except Space also fails under the domain of Azure Flair, so it super counters majority of what he can do.

Not necessarily:
There is still the issue of matching enemy utility effects even if you have greater bodily power. All the strength in the world doesn't matter if Kang Zong can ensure that all your attacks miss while his land unerringly! It might take him subjective years to kill you, but he'd manage eventually! Remember that Act as Truth only allows you to act as Truth, which is greater than the Fates, but the Endless Sky may be greater still.

But let's say it does work. It would still require us to constantly be using Azure Flair, which is not ideal. Furthermore, it wouldn't help if he just teleported himself instead of spacial warping, since the effect would end before we could Act as Truth.

Moreover, Zang Kong isn't really our primary focus right now, it's the Divinities and the Empire. Azure Flare would be ideal if we were targeting the Heroine but it's likely to be overkill for the Fates and really doesn't help to preserve the world.

Acting as truth is nice and all, and probably lets us sacrifice our entire cultivation base to kill someone really powerful.

Can we not use this much hyperbole, please?

True Spell costs are negligible anyway - as in, they have never been factored in or mentioned anywhere.

That's because we've only been used them on a Grand Diagrams, which has a one time cost. We haven't actually gotten any others yet. Considering the description explicitly describes them as taxing, I don't think this is a safe assumption.

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It seems like more people are in favour of invading Heaven. While I would really prefer to kill the Heroine, I've outlined some of my thoughts on our potential builds.

Azure Flare
Use vs. Fates: Extreme. We've had it explicitly stated that the Truth is greater than them and with an amplified Vengeance from wielding the staff, we'd be acting in accordance with our self. This would have the highest chance of killing them dead. On the other hand, it doesn't really have much ability to exploit their deaths since Baenlixnaire likely wouldn't be satisfied with just killing them.

Use vs. Kong: Minimal, possible nil. On the other hand, it would help significantly if we chose to negotiate with him. Between speaking as Truth, killing the Fates and Aurelia's charisma, we might find be able to come to a peaceful solution even without a value restructuring Oath.

For the Empire: Low. Both Truthsaying and Flaring would help but they both weaken us and it lacks the utility effects necessary to truly change things.

-

Combat focused Extrusion
vs. Fates: High(?): They apparently require esoteric vectors and this is pretty solid in that regard. Doesn't really help us exploit their deaths though.
vs. Zang Kong: Moderate-high. It boosts our flexibility and our combat stage, meaning we're not totally hosed if he counters physical power.
For the Empire: Minimal. There's pretty low marginal returns on increased power in this regard.

Utility focused Extrusion
vs. Fates: Low. If we could find and resurrect some useful people or empower our Lieutenants to a sufficient degree, it could be helpful but those aren't too likely. It does help us exploit the fuck out of defeating them though, with the ability to drain their Essence or torture their shades.

vs. Zang Kong: Low. See above about resurrection or empowering our Lieutenants. On the other hand, it could be a very helpful bargaining chip during negotiations.

For the Empire: Extreme. It lets us resurrect the dead and create Titans from Beasts. What did you expect?

True Incarnation (general)
This really depends on the specifics of what we choose. A .25 Stage boost is quite a lot at this level but it's limited to Ego Barrier. Fated Love is really the only esoteric mental effect we should be worried about right now and we're already resistant to that.

Truespells
vs. whatever: Medium-High? These are pretty hard to evaluate due to their absolute effects and unknown capabilities. I don't think any of them would let us dunk a problem by themselves but they'd help significantly at whatever we need them to do with diminishing marginal returns.

Magnum Opus
vs. whatever: Extreme. A scaling Magnum Opus will be amazing at whatever we make it to do. It's up to you if it's worth the cost though.

-

If we're going to invade Heaven, I'd pick combat Truespells and a utility focused Extrusion to get the benefits of Baenlixnaire's Vengeance. I don't really have a horse in this race though.
 
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This maybe childish but I want to bullied the emperor thought.

The authority of Emperor mean every treasure go to him but what if we go into Imperial center and bullied everyone around for their artifact including the Emperor?:p

Even if their treasure is too low level for us then we can still feed all of treasure to Suizhen.

What the population can do to us? Petition to Emperor?
What Emperor can do to us? Beg at our feet?:rofl:

If we master the lich then we don't need to kill anyone just drain everyone that go against us to base mortal.

Good luck to challenge us again in thousand years when we control concept of death and all treasure in the Empire.


Maybe we can anger the Fate by change how people fight in Imperial center into duel with children card game.The Ultimate weebaboo.
 
I don't like our chances against the heaven unless we reach at least stage 17. We don't have an exact idea how powerful fates are. The Shades of fallen Dark lords and True celebration may be helpful here.

Edit : The elves may also know something.
 
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I don't like our chances against the heaven unless we reach 17 Stage. We don't have an exact idea how powerful fates are. The Shades of fallen Dark lords and True celebration may be helpful here.

We also have no idea about it's defenses.
My plan is Open The way and Maya at 2000%.

If they are hedonistic like greek god then we can pretty much kill everyone in the heaven.
 
If we can get Immortal Awakening and then attack the heavens, I want True Incarnation.

If Immortal Awakening will only be a post-epilogue thing, I want to take Azure Flare for coolness factor of Truespeaking / Act as Truth to match Aurelia's bold words.
 
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If we can get Immortal Awakening and then attack the heavens, I want True Incarnation.

If Immortal Awakening will only be a post-epilogue thing, I want to take Azure Flare for coolness factor of Truespeaking / Act as Truth to match Aurelia's bold words.
If we're getting Essence absorption from Necromancer via Extra Diligent, it seems quite likely we'll get Immortal Awakening, and it seems likely we'll at least steal from the Heavens given Open the Way.

I would like Incarnation just because it has a hidden synergy with Immortal Awakening, which is quite a shiny, and though I will admit Speaking as Truth is a neat capacity I think a well-used Incarnation will be worth more. (And it also doesn't risk killing ourselves because we failed to guess the principles of the Truth correctly, of course.)
 
That sounds too abstract for a non-True Cerebration. I'd like to do that, if it is possible.

If not, I want to see if we can use a Cerebration about Immortal Tribulation, or a Cerebration about Kong's Chrysalis or maybe about the Tomb if we want to call up dead Gods and raid the Heavens.

Plenty of uses of Cerebration, not enough time. :(
 
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*The character may act as Truth. This is exponentially more draining than the flaring of its nimbus. Unless the action taken is in accordance with the character's self and the principles of the Truth, this will likely extinguish the entirety of his essence before the action is even complete. While acting as Truth, the character's deeds are impervious to the interference of powers governed or represented by the lesser Signs. He can elevate a fated pauper or cast down a fated king; pre-empt or un-make Dooms as he sees fit; tear through the boundaries of the natural forces, or pull free his loved ones from the clutch of Death itself.

I'm actually kind of upset that I'm being accused of hyperbole here. It's fine if you disagree with my interpretation guys, but the warning on the tin tells me that the slightest mistake with azure kills us before we even finish moving.

For me the idea that deciding to kill someone and having our actions not aligning 100% with our true nature before having true incarnation that solidifies our true nature is a very real fear of mine. It is not an exaggeration as a debate strategy.

Even then, even if it is inline with ourselves, speaking as truth for more than anything but sparring use reverses our cultivation progress. Revealing the truth is exponentially more exhausting. Acting as truth exponentially more exhausting again.

Yes I have a pessimistic view on it's use. The very description screams great power at greater cost. It lets us do something incredible and punishes us for it. That's fine against a single enemy that is a peer or greater. It's not great against multiple.

I agree it's a perfect trump card. I would just very much prefer the option that gives us extra oomph, rather than the option to make sacrificial plays.
 
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