Even Further Beyond [Complete]

I'm probably going to be jumping around this vote.

What would persuade you to change your mind?

Consider that Xylitemmerral is probably rather busy to take a few days out to teach Nameless magic, given that he's in the middle of fighting a battle, and is probably rather committed .

If he falls we might well still be able to loot his Diagrams. It's not as if the Cultivators who will kill him will have much use for them.

You are not sure, you only know what you have heard of in various accounts which promise 'immediate power.' Whether this is on the scale of instants, seconds, or minutes is difficult to say; those who acquire such Pearls typically tend to consume them on the spot and have not written in detail about their experiences, as far as you know.

Could we use the Pearl as the basis for a Cultivation boosting artifact?
 
after re-reading the arguments i've been convinced to change my vote to...
[x] Confront the Bleak Raven
[X] Give to Suizhen
 
if we hold on to the pearl there will inevitability be some new shiny offered that we could use it on, it's now or never for all intents and purposes, much in the same way as Truth was a few votes back.
 
Suizhen's presence would mainly be as a representative of us, though do we have enough money to bribe one of the Dao Cleaving cultivators of Deplian to act as a Dao Protector for the duration of it? Between our scammed finances and Xiaoling's we have considerable dosh.
She can be a very powerful social operator given the right tools.
So can we buy her a Dao Protector so she can operate here? Buying protection for his little girl is what her daddy'd probably want her to use her credit card for, and with all the rivals the Bleak Ravens have finding someone at Dao Cleaving willing to accept dosh for a week's worth shouldn't be impossible. I don't really get why we'd we be bringing our lackeys with us to fight an arch-terrorist anyway.
 
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Yeah, the Pearl would have been great for making Suizen a fine blade, but alas.

Anyway, I'm okay with any of the combinations I presented earlier. Keep it and Approach, Give it to Suizen and poke the laser eyed murder lich, or chug it ourselves and Kool-Aid man the Ravens.

These three options all have the best synergies in my opinion. Suizen we already know can learn to fuck with esoteric bullshit if her eyes get buffed enough, keeping it has obvious uses as leverage we can use in negotiations, and if we're going to start a burly brawl, we'll want to be as powerful as possible.
 
Warning: Moderator Review
moderator review
...really? REALLY?

WE WERE WARNED ABOUT THIS DUMBASS!

Going have to agree. As much fun as it would be to watch these babbling idiots get themselves killed because they can't dedicate to their own cause and blatantly ignore the fact that consequences exist, it's just to fucking infuriating.
Anyone that doesn't like Truthseeker, look no further than this post as to why not to vote for it.

Fuck Truthseeker voters and their insulting arrogance.

See? I can do it too.
You are a dumbass aren't you? SHE'S AN EGO BARRIER STAGE. A MERE .25 IS NOT THREE FUCKING STAGES. IT TAKES TIME TO GET STRONGER!
You're speaking more and more stupid shit it's amazing.

Oh, you mean dumb and pointless like going to hunt Liches?
You ARE aware that Cultivation isn't just punching things good, right?

Or are you just being a disingenuous bastard who's salty that your Diagram shiny is being devalued?
@DarkKing98 you have consistently been uncivil and abrasive throughout the thread. Your behavior ranged from being unnecessary hostile or vitriolic, to outright attacking and insulting people as the above sample quotes show. This kind of continuous incivility is completely unacceptable. For this, you will infracted for 50 points under Rule 3 and a 7 days thread-ban.

@GiovanniPapazzi, when reading through the thread, I noticed how you repeatedly kept rating DarkKing98's posts with Funnys or Hugs, even those that most certainly did not include any humorous elements or intentions. Considering how his offensive posts were also rated as such, I cannot reach any other conclusion but that you were intentionally abusing the rating system to mock, insult or provoking DarkKing98. For this, you will receive an infraction for 25 points, a 3 days thread-ban, and have your ability to rate/like posts revoked for 7 days.

Ah, I was worried for a second that Truthseeker would lose.

Fortunately, DarkKing98 is back arguing against it.

So, basically, if we're getting our Ring mugged?
@Wolfy , mocking other users in this manner is both uncivil and disruptive. If your post serves no other purpose but to rile up other users, then it might be better to not post at all. For this you will receive a Staff Notice logged against your account.
omnomnom so good

It's bad for my blood pressure but this salt is delicious, especially considering how uninformed you are. Stay right there while I cook up some fries.
@runeblue360 posts as this one are not ok, no matter the circumstances. Once again, if your post serves no other purpose but to mock or provoke another user, then you're better off not posting at all. A Staff Notice will be logged against your account.

 
Actually, come to think of it @Rihaku

What kind of mechanism could we actually employ to revise Suizen's Foundation? If anyone can do it, it's us after all.
 
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Reasons to go to Xylitemmerral:
  • We actually 100% know that Lich is there, no risk of wasting our time
  • Top tier Lich means top tier spells and cool Artifacts to boot, accept no substitutes
  • Best offensive spells we can get out hands on, can be combined later with Artifacts for maximum Heroin-killiness
  • Offensive focus gets countered by our Ring
  • We get to play big damn heroes, earning us ton of reputation and brownie points
  • Chance to win it all - if we play our cards right, we might even manage to run back in time to meet second Lich, provided he's there
  • We might learn how to make teleporting flying fortress of doom
  • Bully Xylit over his Arch obsession

Also, Save/Eat voters might want to consolidate at some point, assuming that both groups are against giving our power away.
 
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Fanwork: 527 words

Too many blue eyes? Or not enough?



Her eyes were the colour of the Pearl now, the blue of an open sky from edge to pupil. The only reason that Nameless could discern the structures of her eyes still was the crackling energies of his mentor's spell crawling up to stain his own, actinic and unearthly and old beyond comprehension.

Xaioling pouted, her scowl only increasing when with a murmured word Nameless used the supernal majesty of The Diagram Unconquered to flick his best friend's pointy Elven ears. Suizhen just looked puzzled, as she usually did when Nameless hadn't explained why he was smiling smugly yet.

Then something within her eyes twisted, and something that looked like but very much were not clouds shifted across those orbs of endless blue. To her credit, she did to try to hide her giggle at Xaioling's wobbling ear by raising her sleeve to her mouth, but there was a reason that she was looking to be indebted to Nameless for at least the next Age or two.

"This isn't acceptable! One person with special glowing eyes is fine,but two throws our whole aesthetic off. Unloved Child, since this is all your fault-"

Suizhen opens her mouth to interject and receives a glare that if Xaioling was at a high Cultivation stage would have boiled steel.

"As I was saying, all your fault, you need to come up with a solution before we return to anywhere more civilised than this overgrown ant-heap. We'll be laughed out of the Center as we are now."

Somehow, even channeling what might be near-ontological powers of insight and escalation, Nameless found a way to make his eyes twinkle.

"Well I did have some ideas…"

Another motion and an otherwise undistinguished tome burst out from the small mountain of similar ones that had accompanied Nameless since he left home. Landing in his hands, he flicked through several pages of transcendental mathematics that made Suixhen's eyes throb unusually as he looked at them over his shoulder.

Finally he found the place he was looking for, revealing a more conventional diagram, showing a female form in a pose that caused Suizhen to blush and Xaoiling to give Nameless a slap that moved his head a whole inch at the cost of rattling every bone in her arm.

"Pervert! I knew it! This was all a scheme of yours to take advantage of me and steal my fortune!"

Nameless, now wishing that he'd never even heard of the the Vitruvian Man, felt all his years of life war with the natural response of his 14 year old body to several pretty girls behaving in confusing ways.

"Well, aren't you going to deny it? Or have have I found the hidden technique that can silence the Dao of Trash?"

"IwasjustgoingtorebuildyourbodywithartifactstounlockthehiddensynergiesbetweenelvenandhumansoulsandturnyouintoanunstoppablekillerrobotitsnotlewdIpromise."

"Well, that's fine then. If you're just being a baka, I can forgive you. Just don't expect me to be so merciful if I find any more 'diagrams' of me or poor innocent Suizhen anywhere around here."

A bead of sweat trickled down Nameless's cheek. He was going to have to burn so many of his secret modification plans.
 
Reasons to go to Xylitemmerral:
  • We actually 100% know that Lich is there, no risk of wasting our time
  • Top tier Lich means top tier spells and cool Artifacts to boot, accept no substitutes
  • Best offensive spells we can get out hands on, can be combined later with Artifacts for maximum Heroin-killiness
  • Offensive focus gets countered by our Ring
  • We get to play big damn heroes, earning us ton of reputation and brownie points
  • Chance to win it all - if we play our cards right, we might even manage to run back in time to meet second Lich, provided he's there
  • We might learn how to make teleporting flying fortress of doom
  • Bully Xylit over his Arch obsession

In order:
  • We know the lich is there. We've no way of guaranteeing that we can talk him down from a mad rampage that he's consuming thousands of years worth of preparation on
  • The spells could easily be useless to us if they're just conventional WMD or army creators
  • We've no idea if these are the best offensive spells we can find. An assassin specced liche would probably be much better for that.
  • His offensive focus may not be countered by the ring as this is someone specced to fight Cultivators, against whom direct Diagram attack spells are basically pointless.
  • We're weaker than the existing garrison. We're not going to be the big damn heroes.
  • We can't win it all. We don't have anything like enough BP. The risk is that if we go after the Arch-Terrorist, we'll run out of BP getting his spells and miss out on the much more useful spells from the local lich.
  • We don't need a floating fortress. We can make a much more useful Vault almost any time we want.
 
I'm not certain if it's optimal or not, and certainly it's been argued both ways, but frankly I simply prefer the story and narrative where the rest of our team remains a relevant part of our overall story and power, to the one where they're mere lapdogs while we do all the work.

Getting some of the cheaty eye bullshit that Suizhen would use to be an apparent equal of the heroine online is thus very directly in my interests as far as this goes as a story.
 
I'm not certain if it's optimal or not, and certainly it's been argued both ways, but frankly I simply prefer the story and narrative where the rest of our team remains a relevant part of our overall story and power, to the one where they're mere lapdogs while we do all the work.

Getting some of the cheaty eye bullshit that Suizhen would use to be an apparent equal of the heroine online is thus very directly in my interests as far as this goes as a story.

We're still in the prologue. She'll get her heaven sent power when the Heroine wakes up anyway. All we're doing is reducing our own long term power and our immediate ability to use it as scamming bait.

If she wants a Priceless Treasure, she's fully capable of going off adventuring and finding one herself.
 
Why would she? Heaven is no longer on her side. At this point, all we have is her raw potential (sufficient to match the agent of Heaven!), but the onus to draw it out in full no longer lies with Fate, but with us.

Apparently not, given this:

The other Heroes don't really start powering up until the Heroine turns 18, what they have before then is just the results of the traits they started with. Suizhen is a genius, but she won't get logic-defying bursts of essentially 'free' power without Lieutenant until after the Heroine is active.

It seems pretty inefficient to invest in her now when it will all pale into insignificance with what she gets for free in just over three years.
 
Apparently not, given this:


It seems pretty inefficient to invest in her now when it will all pale into insignificance with what she gets for free in just over three years.

On the other hand, if we secure her Loyalty, and give her a good foundation, she'll be a leg up on her rivals, which means we can more or less trust her to lock down one of the other Heroes, giving us room to maneuver and relieved pressure.
 
On the other hand, if we secure her Loyalty, and give her a good foundation, she'll be a leg up on her rivals, which means we can more or less trust her to lock down one of the other Heroes, giving us room to maneuver and relieved pressure.

That's true. If we can get enough time, artifacts to revise her Foundation might make sense, particularly given the concern about psychics. That's something it seems unlikely Faet would give her.

However, I don't see that we need to awaken her eyes, as that does seem like something that would be Fated to happen anyway.
 
Can we get a confirm from @Rihaku on how Suizhen's development is Fated? Just so we know whether our investments into her will be significant in the grand scheme of things or not.
 
That's true. If we can get enough time, artifacts to revise her Foundation might make sense, particularly given the concern about psychics. That's something it seems unlikely Faet would give her.

However, I don't see that we need to awaken her eyes, as that does seem like something that would be Fated to happen anyway.

Yeah, all the Heroes are going to have a cheat-like power, The Heroine will just have the most cheaty one that'd let her overcome all the others, but it won't openly appear as such.

The Eyes of Kong are something we're going to have the most influence on in this early stage, and if we can get a tag on them, we might be able to reverse engineer some of their perks.

But yeah, if we can take a timeskip revising Suizen's foundation without fucking our own growth over too much, we should absolutely do so.
 
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I'd prefer to gain Suizhen's loyalty in ways beyond just bribing her. Yes, by taking a suboptimal decision every so often to play the hero. It seems more reliable and better coincides with our desire to save the Empire. That said, I think for now cultivation is the priority.

We can play hero more after we get True Alchemist and have the power. I think people voting to go after archterrorist lich are underestimating the danger greatly.

It is very likely that making Suizhen more capable of seeing through our Diagram bullshit this early in our relationship will backfire badly. What do you think our status as a lich appears like in that kind of vision?
 
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The Eyes of Kong are something we're going to have the most influence on in this early stage, and if we can get a tag on them, we might be able to reverse engineer some of their perks.

Reverse engineering them would be interesting.

However I think that we'd still be better off waiting until Nameless was more knowledgeable about Cultivation itself and has more acute senses before awakening her eyes in that case.

That way we can still try to use the Pearl as bait to scam at least the Bleak Raven Sect. If not more people in between then and now.
 
Reverse engineering them would be interesting.

However I think that we'd still be better off waiting until Nameless was more knowledgeable about Cultivation itself and has more acute senses before awakening her eyes in that case.

That way we can still try to use the Pearl as bait to scam at least the Bleak Raven Sect. If not more people in between then and now.

Yeah.

As I said, I'd be happy with Keep/Approach, Use Yourself/Assault, and Give to Suizen/Lich. Part of why I haven't had too much in the way of arguments and I'm still a bit ambivalent on the votes, all three of these feel equally viable.
 
In order:
  • We know the lich is there. We've no way of guaranteeing that we can talk him down from a mad rampage that he's consuming thousands of years worth of preparation on
  • The spells could easily be useless to us if they're just conventional WMD or army creators
  • We've no idea if these are the best offensive spells we can find. An assassin specced liche would probably be much better for that.
  • His offensive focus may not be countered by the ring as this is someone specced to fight Cultivators, against whom direct Diagram attack spells are basically pointless.
  • We're weaker than the existing garrison. We're not going to be the big damn heroes.
  • We can't win it all. We don't have anything like enough BP. The risk is that if we go after the Arch-Terrorist, we'll run out of BP getting his spells and miss out on the much more useful spells from the local lich.
  • We don't need a floating fortress. We can make a much more useful Vault almost any time we want.
  • Rihaku's post earlier in thread clearly implied that we will certainly get the spells, but that they aren't likely to be multipliers. Treasures will certainly be there for plundering either way. Meanwhile, there is a real chance other Lich doesn't even exist
  • That makes absolutely no sense given the setting and its focus on individuals. Not like you need more than one army-buster anyway
  • Given that he is top tier Lich, that he is focused on offensive spells and Doom, it's very unlikely that we'll get better shoot at this
  • He was already unable to kill squad leader who is our equal in Cultivation, and we have Ring immunity and Unravel on top of that
  • Again incorrect. We are as strong as their leader, except we are also immune to Diagram spells and can use Unravel. That makes us much better at handling him than their Peak Dao Cleaving reinforcement
  • We sure can. We don't need to spend BP on spells to make them amazing - and if we do, that's because they are good enough to be alternatives to the other BP options we have at hand. It's not like we're wasting 0.4BPs on dumb shit
Xylitemmerral is unique time limited story event provided by our Second in command and two previous choices. It would be pretty silly not to take it.

Then again, we choose to Scam in past vote, and to buff Ming instead of taking massive buff to Cultivation in vote before that and people are unironically thinking about giving away few objective months of growth away as well, so it's not like we're not making questionable decisions all over the place.
 
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