Even Further Beyond [Complete]

[x] Consume Personally
[x] Assault the Bleak Ravens

Spoils of War. Max Cultivation speed multipliers. Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
I am a bit surprised that Xylitemmerral's been as popular as he has. Are you guys just not as interested in more Cultivation speed boosters?
I certainly am! But I think they think they can get him without losing too much of our ability to get the one here. I heavily doubt that they're right in that, but between that and bot being 100% certain that there even is a Lich here, I can see where they're coming from.
Even I'm not 100% certain there's a Lich behind the Ravens. 95%, sure, but not 100.
 
[x] Give to Xiaoling
[x] Confront the Bleak Ravens


I'm not been able to devote as much time to this thread as I would like, so it's likely very late, but I would like to push this argument regardless. Rihaku has already spoken about her great social ability and intelligence-gathering capabilities, and how great an asset this can be. This is directly synergistic with a diplomatic resolution, as not only it makes her more willing to exert herself and the resources of her clan on our behalf, it also gives her an additional layer of safety and social influence inherent in being of a higher realm.

It's also a pretty great investment in immediate Cultivation, as not only would it make her a Mid-Soul Chrysalis level fighter, but Half-Elves have a more difficult time Cultivating, meaning the direct boost in Cultivation energy given by a Pearl is extremely valuable in skipping the greater investment Cultivation has for her.

A successful diplomatic mission to the Bleak Ravens is greatly benefited by not only the names of Yong and Ming, but by the Cultivation stages of the scions themselves, as they greatly imply current or future influence inside the family.

I guess it would be fine to save the Pearl, but I think investing it in not only the power of our subordinates, but an increased chance of acquiring powerful Diagram spells seems to be a better investment for me. Rihaku has stated we still lack multipliers, and that spells of the Diagram usually have more value to a cultivator than even the best Priceless treasures. A comparison between the Pearl and even Llewyn's Prodigious Might or Alvan's Balm of Growth when mastered reveal this, without even mentioning something like Haltsuphrect's Quickening. It's these types of bonuses that reveal the true synergy of the Thrice-Great and is the reason why we are even bothering with this event. Is it really worth to preserver this material in comparison to these bonuses, when we can make our odds of acquiring these amazing multipliers even better?
 
Thing is, using Artifice burns our Cultivation gains, making it ineffecient to use when we're at higher Cultivation stages unless we Diagram or Artifice ourself some more multipliers. The next stage of Philosopher Stone was confirmed by Rihaku as needing a GS-tier Artifact to complete.

Yes, and we're never going to get it if we don't get Cultivation speed multipliers. That's the point. The (now very strongly prevailing vote, after recent switching), is to deprioritize Cultivation multipliers that would enable us to repeatedly advance Cultivation stage and craft the required artifacts, in favour of getting Diagram combat magic.

That also effectively locks us out of getting all the unrealised Cultivation speed modifiers that the existing artifacts we have in the queue could give us such as enhancing Greater Refining, Potentiation, or Quickening. All in all we'd be massively reducing our overall Cultivation speed. Possibly by something crazy like twenty fold.

We know there's a lich over there we can just teleport near and chat up; that's hugely valuable in my book.

He doesn't sound at all interested in talking, given that he's rather busy having a genocidal rampage.
 
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You could always go for the maximum violence solution. Round up a posse, kill the Bleak Ravens and take their stuff. They are forbidden cultivators after all.
 
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But yeah, basically, that's my issue.

There's three viable approaches I can see here, and the only one of them that seems to have a chance at winning is the Suizen + Xyl option

Because most people who don't want to give it to Suizen want to eat it for instant power instead, when we could hang onto it to potentially use as barter as part of a Confront scheme, getting the Bleak Ravens to fuck off and indebt the Lich to us in the process.

But people get scared when there's a Reality Forming expert hanging around, and they don't even want to negotiate unless they're strong enough to fight him. But they also want to try negotiating from a position of strength.

The way I see it, if we maximize the diplomatic approach, we should have a Treasure capable of sweetening the pot--only if we intend to crush their Sect should we eat it for power.

Because if we're going to negotiate, then why the fuck are we disposing of the object that would be the best carrot to offer a guy in this dude's position for power we're going to end up dumping in a bit anyway? We still need to drop down to Organ Refining to Go Beyond that stage anyway!

[X] Save It
[X] Confront the Bleak Ravens
 
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Nobody is forcing us to stay in this quaint little town if there is no lich there. We could still bug off to chase after the Archterrorist if we find out that it was a dud - which should become obvious fairly quickly after a direct confrontation - and their Reality Former is simply too stoned to move out of the caves. We might have trouble defeating these people, but running away is much easier, after all.

Still, I don't really think we won't find anything of use here. Charmed Life is on our side thanks to our decision to barge in with all the subtlety of a raging elephant.
 
Are you promising that they're a thing here?

Because so far, you've been ambivalent on the topic, except suggesting that none of them exist going after Xyl.

I mean, I'm not against Confronting the Bleak Ravens, I just think if we're going to do that, keeping the Pearl as potential leverage is more important, but the current voting scheme is such that the people who want to confront also want to burn it for immediate power.
If the rumor about the Patriarch using whatever's down there to stabilize his foundation is true, it doesn't seem like too much of a leap to assume that the Vault has Cultivation multipliers.
 
But yeah, basically, that's my issue.

There's three viable approaches I can see here, and the only one of them that seems to have a chance at winning is the Suizen + Xyl option

Because most people who don't want to give it to Suizen want to eat it for instant power instead, when we could hang onto it to potentially use as barter as part of a Confront scheme, getting the Bleak Ravens to fuck off and indebt the Lich to us in the process.

But people get scared when there's a Reality Forming expert hanging around, and they don't even want to negotiate unless they're strong enough to fight him

I think that the Confront + Suizhen option can work, as if we activate her eyes we might be able to use the no doubt massively distorted and exaggerated legends about the Eyes of Kong that these yokels have no doubt heard to scam them into thinking that they're be critical to helping their sect leader stabilise his foundation/defeat the lich/help the lich help him/whatever.

They're possibly sharingan expies, so why not blag that they have a whole load of made up bullshit powers.

Now, I prefer the Keep option, but I think this isn't obviously anti-synergistic in the way you sugest.
 
If the rumor about the Patriarch using whatever's down there to stabilize his foundation is true, it doesn't seem like too much of a leap to assume that the Vault has Cultivation multipliers.

And that's exactly why I want to have a prize to offer him in trade for getting to use it.

Because this is a treasure that would let him repair his Foundation that's designed for Reality Forming experts to find valuable. It would solve his problem, and in exchange, it would let us--who gain more from stuff like this--make use of the site instead, plus have leverage on the lich.

Like, if we're going to negotiate (Which is the other winning choice), why are we throwing away leverage?

That's what's baffling me!

Suizen + Confront is sketchy, but we could bullshit around that I suppose--we do have a socially focused party and some skill at scamming after all, plus Fortune pulling for us. It's Consume + Confront that I'm just... Argh! I can't even describe how silly it seems! It's taking the "Negotiate first" option and then throwing away our biggest potential piece of leverage first!

While with the Pearl as trade value, we can actually buy the spot out from the Bleak Ravens with our crazy social and mercantile skills backed by scions of two Great Clans in good standing (And an obvious descendant of a third).

We're not keeping the Cultivation power after all regardless--it'd be fine if we intend to destroy the Bleak Ravens--but Confront isn't the choice that commits to doing that, it's the choice that intends to negotiate first.
 
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If the rumor about the Patriarch using whatever's down there to stabilize his foundation is true, it doesn't seem like too much of a leap to assume that the Vault has Cultivation multipliers.
Beyond it, give it a high size, and see if we can't pick up some synergies with poor neglected Naturalism. Diagram boosts + Artifact boosts+ Naturalism boosts should give us the modifiers that we've been looking for. Hell, if we can find a way to transplant Cultivation plants to our pocket realm, with the spells we've already got we would have a never ending resource farm.
 
And that's exactly why I want to have a prize to offer him in trade for getting to use it.

Because this is a treasure that would let him repair his Foundation that's designed for Reality Forming experts to find valuable. It would solve his problem, and in exchange, it would let us--who gain more from stuff like this--make use of the site instead, plus have leverage on the lich.

Like, if we're going to negotiate (Which is the other winning choice), why are we throwing away leverage?

That's what's baffling me!

Suizen + Confront is sketchy, but we could bullshit around that I suppose--we do have a socially focused party and some skill at scamming after all, plus Fortune pulling for us. It's Consume + Confront that I'm just... Argh! I can't even describe how silly it seems! It's taking the "Negotiate first" option and then throwing away our biggest potential piece of leverage first!

I have to admit I'm not that in agreement to this line of reasoning. Before you started the bandwagon of vote changes rolling, then the three main votes for what to do with the Pearl were only one apart. We should be able to make a push of arguments and discussions to push a better option over the line.

If you'd just switched you Pearl vote I think Suizhen would even have been in the lead.
 
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I have to admit I'm not sympathetic to this line of reasoning. Before you started the bandwagon of vote changes rolling, then the three main votes for what to do with the Pearl were only one apart. We should be able to make a push of arguments and discussions to push a better option over the line.

In my defense, I took a look at the votes and saw that "Confront + Consume" was winning distinctly, which was just so pants on head retarded from a synergistic point of view that I knee-jerk voted for the only other potentially synergetic choice that had a chance of winning.

However, I've changed my vote over to Save + Confront.

Just... For god's sake, can we please get people to stop pairing Consume + Confront? It's just so pants on head backwards that it causes me something akin to actual physical harm to contemplate it. Consume is great if we want to commit to destroying the Bleak Ravens--it's nigh useless if we want to buy them out or negotiate with them, while Save gives us the option of doing things that way--and more importantly, doesn't necessarily publically reveal that we're capable of fighting Dao Cleaving at our current age.

And if it turns out that we don't need to use the Pearl to win? We can still use it later.
 
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Naturalism seems to spend essence too, so I don't know whether we'll want to use it instead of creating another uber-Artifact.
Depends on the synergies we find. Multiple magics working together seem to always have better results than one alone, look at Philosopher King for example.

Edit: Naturalism doesn't burn essence, but it ties the land inexorably to the Naturalist, so that what effects one effects the other, at least I think so. Good reason to beyond it so we pick up Security 5, eh?
Adhoc vote count started by Origami Clock on Mar 25, 2018 at 6:20 PM, finished with 289 posts and 49 votes.
 
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I'm going to make giving it to Suizhen a tie with consume again. Also just because, here's a plan based tally.

[x] Save it
[x] Confront the Bleak Ravens
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Mar 25, 2018 at 6:17 PM, finished with 286 posts and 49 votes.
 
Naturalism seems to spend essence too, so I don't know whether we'll want to use it instead of creating another uber-Artifact.

From Rihaku's hints, what I've picked up so far is that it doesn't spend essence, but that those with compromised essence due to making artifacts can't use Naturalism very well (or at all). As we can cultivate to recover from the damage artificing does, I suspect that we're in a unique position to actually unlock being Quadruple Great if we ever get chance to try Naturalism, skilled in both of the Binary Arts as well as Cultivation and Diagram Magic.

i suspect it spends time though. Still, when we have a Vault, I'd like to experiment with it at least once.
 
From Rihaku's hints, what I've picked up so far is that it doesn't spend essence, but that those with compromised essence due to making artifacts can't use Naturalism very well (or at all). As we can cultivate to recover from the damage artificing does, I suspect that we're in a unique position to actually unlock being Quadruple Great if we ever get chance to try Naturalism, skilled in both of the Binary Arts as well as Cultivation and Diagram Magic.

Naturalism isn't' different from Binary Magic, it's just a different way of doing it.

Instead of investing your Essence into a discrete object, you simply invest it into your surroundings instead.
 
Why are you switching, if I may ask?

I admit that Bleak Ravens has suddenly switched from being in the lead to taking massive tumble down the vote board, but what's changed your mind?
I initially wanted to continue what I voted for last update but ended up deciding to hopefully speed the story up with some potential action rather than manipulation that seems to end up off-screen like the scamming.
 
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