I am coming around to the idea of telling Stormchaser EVERYTHING, and convincing him about luna and cult.
Same. Generally speaking it's FINE if people are not minions unable to contradict us.
Our problem with Rarity wasn't just that she was nearly sure to disagree, but that she'd disagree
in a way that would nearly certainly cause her death or imprisonment, that of the other element bearers, AND bring doubt and scrutiny down on us.
Leaving the cult at the end of next turn seems unlikely, unless we find exactly what we need to avoid rituals in the Mansus this turn.
yeah, it's the best case scenario.
Admittedly having Stormchaser on our side means we might be able and willing to take 8 actions next turn, but it's still very risky.
We should work with Dull Glass to take the cult out. You guys have no plan to do it, and Windy Flakes is a knife pointed at our back.
To say nothing of us even asking windy our questions being something that will tip him off to who betrayed the cult.
At least wait until after the Windy action to write him off!
I don't believe we'll make it that long no matter what we do. So far we've had a major shakeup every 3 turns or so, and that's five turns away. Whatever comes next will probably force us out.
Like, say,
war with the crystal Empire maybe?
We're probably due for that one. And that's if Discord doesn't act first. Or if the Plundervines don't suddenly start invading Ponyville from the Everfree.
...or, you know, maybe we'll be invaded by Parasprites and suffer a famine due to them.
…So, you just completely missed it when Bird explicitly told us that the answer to most of our problems is most likely to come from the Mansus? You've completely forgotten the two instant dead rituals that we will be hit with if that clock ticks over before we're protected from them, or the murder beast we still haven't turned to our side or found an equivalent match for. Unless you think a single detective can take down the entire Cult without, I don't know, getting hit by the same?
technically it's not that we KNOW we'll be hit by those rituals, but that Velvet is not willing to take the risk.
That's different.
Of course it's definitely LIKELY we'd be targeted, but it's not quite a certainty, especially if we sabotage effectively before leaving or if the Master somehow turns out to be fine with our betrayal (unlikely but not impossible. Hard to predict an eldritch moth being).
"Lore Embargo" relates to more than just teaching Selene. Lore Embargo stops you from "presenting summons to your Family" (I make an exception for Names, remember how Baldomare lied her way into your family and all. But I DO NOT allow, for example, for an unsubtle summon to bodyguard a family member). It also prevents you from, say, "Warding your Home" (if you knew how, but I figure you might want to), or "Gifting a protective Artifact to a family member".
Those are all options you haven't even been able to do so far, sure. But if you DO learn how to do any of those, Stormchaser will still oppose them because "Lore and Family stay separate".
Think about it on these lines.
Would it be a categorical no, or a "you can try to convince him on a case-by-case scenario?
It will.
I believe I have proven that I can make votes where "only bad things will happen, so pick your poison".
As I said. This is explicitly a vote on how you will handle your relationship with Stormchaser from here onwards. None of the negative consequences are game-ending, and all of them will explicitly not be cripplingly bad, or might even be positive from a certain point of view.
We've wanted to clear our the air with Stormchaser since nearly the beginning. We now have the best, and probably LAST, chance to actually get an equal partner who knows all our secrets and still stands by our side.
If we don't reveal a truth now, we'll never do it.
If we don't reveal a truth, and he finds it out, he'll definitely feel betrayed. It's not necessarily unfixable, but it's still bad.
I'm leaning towards telling him everything. Convincing him that we KNOW how to fix Luna is probably the most important thing, as it's convincing him we
know what's best for our daughter, and that he doesn't.
which is true.
the second convincement is less clear cut.
removing the Lore embargo has both immediate and future benefits, be they lessons, summons or artifacts. We are, after all, searching for a way to protect our family from killing ritual.
Dull GLass... IF we take appropriate actions next turn it's survivable, though it's still dangerous. it will definitely mean we'll have to give up something else due to lack of time though.
You know, I really want to see what the family would look like as a Lore-friendly household. Not necessarily people actually knowing the Lores, but the little things. Stuff like making sure everyone has their protective amulets before going to school in the morning, summons bodyguards following them around, Lorebooks as bed time stories, kids dodging ward schemas while they play, the cooks having a special set of tools for making reagents… stuff like that. Culture, essentially.
That's tempting.
Also
"
Silky, did you do your homework?" "Yes mom, but I didn't understand this bit. What's the difference between a Risen and a zombie?"
Plus, our metaphorical fingerprints are currently all over the Library. Stormchaser won't implicate us, but if Dull Glass does invade the club, he's going to find our manuscripts and someone, eventually, will know enough to mention Velvet Covers in the same breath as 'the Loremaster'. So we'll have to approach him ourselves beforehand for that to be feasible, in which case we might as well just tell Stormchaser that we're going to try and get Dull Glass's help/cooperation.
I wanted to send a Risen to steal the manuscripts but noooooo, having a changeling prisoner killed was a step too far...
Mm. I'm not sure banking everything on the alternative methods not only existing, but being acceptable is a good idea, but it might be worth the risk. If nothing else we could always take Selene to Celestia and offer the recovery ritual as an immediate solution. I rather doubt she would want to wait for something better, and Stormchaser would probably accept her ruling.
and, again, it's 5 turns away. We'd probably get another chance to talk him around on this point by then, OR we might get a better alternative through knock (though he might still classify those as "not good"... or we might just act and ask forgiveness instead of permission on this specific point.
It would be a betrayal, but a comparatively small one, especially after months of "not finding other solutions" and our being certain of this working.
...we could even just lie about it, say that Selene recovered for some other reason. If we take lores compromise that basically is permission for the "lessons" part of healing Selene, even if not the final ritual, and 5 months of
positive experience with the lores, including learning some of it himself, might lead to him changing his mind.
I would say the opposite. We're working on Luna now, inducting the rest of our family about the occult is a nice-to-have that comes later.
I observe generally that some of these points seems like things we can make progress on later, as long as we don't keep them a secret now. Stormchaser might object to a warding amulet today, but will he feel the same way when we're fleeing from the Cult? If he's willing to learn Lore but doesn't trust our plan for Luna, he might feel differently once he understands better.
...huh, I think I just flipped myself there.
Okay, Lore+Cult. Then we don't have the ticking clock, we can teach Selene and give Stormchaser a proper introduction to the Occult, put up whatever Occult protections we find, and we can address the question of how to heal Luna in, like, 5 months.
yeah, that was also my chain of thought.
If we give him a few months of positive experience learning the lores and the benefits they bring, we might get a second chance to convince him about the mind-healing ritual IF we have not found a better solution by then.
Using the ritual first on ourselves to remove our mental wound (and the other one for the physical one) might also help proving the ritual to be safe.
Finally... if it truly came down to it, we could either use the ritual in secret and later show that it worked and we knew best (which is a betrayal, but one we'd do for good reasons)...
...or we could use the leash, convince him with that, heal Luna, THEN remove the Leash and hope that the fact things worked will let him rationalize our convincing him.
You know, looking at things…
Yeah, I really do think telling him everything is best. How much is Velvet's peace of mind worth to us? Especially when we remember that the original fault in our marriage came when he realized we didn't trust him with everything. It would be really nice to make that no longer true. Especially now, when Velvet's conscience is so burdened by the mess with Twilight and Rarity. Heal our family, and then we can start working on healing our friends.
Yeah, after our breaking down in front of Jade it would be oh so nice to finally remove THIS source of worries.
Sure, there's a few problems that might come up in the future, depending on which "convincing" we pick... but they're future problems, and many of them are acceptable/manageable, and maybe something he might reconsider given more experience and familiarity with the Lores.
...also, you know, revealing to him that we actually know how to heal our leg whenever we want to would be nice. If he trusts us on the lores He might actually be willing to give us the bits for the healing rituals on ourselves!
If you decide to TELL him about... (WITHOUT further "Convincing" him)
-Luna: He will know the truth about Luna's original disappearance. He will NOT blame you for it, as you will explain you... were simply forced to do it. But he will conclude that "a Lore Ritual hurt his daughter". And since your plan to heal her involve a "Lore Ritual", he will be against whatever Final Ritual you attempt on Selene by principle. (He will NOT oppose the lessons, seeing how you are doing it organically)
-Lores: He will know what you are capable of doing, and will finally understand why you had so many breakdowns. Good for him to be less worried about his fragile wife (and you are fragile, no matter how Edge-wise you think you are). However, because of all the pain you have been through, he will see the bad side of the Lores in a way you don't. Thus, he will oppose you mixing the Lores with the family life. (This is SEPARATE from any Selene decisions).
-Worms: He will know the horrible truth, but will not know what to do about it.
-Cult: He will know what the Cult has done, and what it plans to do. He will understand that it slowly brought his wife in, and ultimately took advantage of her. That you decided to leave when you learned what the cult is going to do is a sign of your fortitude. But still, he needs to do something about the Cult. He will know the town guard is on the Cult's pocket. Thus (as a local noble, also) he will go to the Detective from the Capital.
-Compromise: He will know you think you have what it takes to do horrible things. And he will know to be there to stop you from crossing that line.
well, Compromise actually sounds nice when its put this way. We're leaving the cult EXACTLY because we're not willing to cross a line.
Having him be there to help us define where the line should stand is... acceptable.
Of those, the least bad are definitely Compromise, Worms (let's be real, WE don't know what to do about it either. We just know the cult's way is not a good way), and... well, the third one is the problem.
Either LUNA, and we convince him later, force him or act without telling him... or Cult, and accept that the clock is now ticking faster, and we're also giving up any chance of subverting the whole cult to our side (it was unlikely to begin with, but this is final confirmation).
After really thinking about it, Lores are too useful to not take. It still allows us to proceed with the lessons, it allows us to apply wards and use summons (which by the way actually should include the Risen... as long as we didn't kill the previous owner of that body, of course), it allows us to start teaching our family, we can then show the nice side of the rituals by healing ourselves first...
If you decide to TELL him, and CONVINCE him about...
-Luna: He will fully understand your plan, and will come to agree with it.
-Lores: He will fully comprehend your vision of the Lores, and will be more amenable to them.
-Worms: He will know the horrible truth, and will prefer to stay close to his family... after all, he might not be able to do that anymore, one day.
-Cult: He will properly understand how dangerous the Cult can be, and will agree with your plan to deal with it, since how you understand it better than he does as a... future-former-member?
-Compromise: He will... choose you.
...you know, when you put it like that, Compromise actually sounds like something
I don't want!
There are no "unimportant" votes. Whatever you choose here, I will respect, and will ensure that it impacts the world, in whatever large or small way that it must.
However, some votes are more pivotal than others. The time for pivotal votes was on the end of last turn, after you pulled so many strings to rush an assault on the Changeling Hive.
This vote is just a conversation with your husband.
It really is that simple.
yeah, it IS that simple. and things decided in a conversation are not fixed in time forever. if the Consequences are delayed long enough (like not healing Luna, or not having him agree with morally questionable lines crossed), circumstances might change enough that we'd be able to have a second conversation about those decisions, based on new information and updated situations.
We can't take back him going to the detective, we can't take back keeping those secrets, and we can't take back leaving our family unprotected and unlearned until we get him to revise his lore-ban decision.
Which really only leaves LORES and CULT as the most important thing to get him to be convinced about NOW.
