Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)

[Lord4StarCommand]

Space marine heroes in canon defeat C'tan shards on the regular and all that Imperial-Whatsits isn't really worth much if we assassinate him with a Soul-Breaker Orb or or similar 'screw you and everything in your general direction' First Age tech.

The other advantage of assassinating someone with a Soul-Breaker Orb it does not leave witnesses that aren't insane ghosts.

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That was Matt Ward era and is not a flattering era and Void Dragon is the most powerful of the C'tan shards it even by itself when unleashed ended the Rangdan War with how devastating it was and you are underedtimating Big E's capabilities for all we know he could precognition it and besides he is an amalgation of many shaman souls we may only just destroy a part of him than the whole even then it leaves other primarchs, Malcador and Valdor who won't take kindly to our assassination which no way we can keep it a secret when the head of the state is gone.
And that also leaves the issue of Imperium that spanned across thousands of worlds with many Astartes and Titans unless, this Soul-Breaker can also deal with an galactic spanning empire?

 

[Degorium]

Space marine heroes in canon defeat C'tan shards on the regular and all that Imperial-Whatsits isn't really worth much if we assassinate him with a Soul-Breaker Orb or or similar 'screw you and everything in your general direction' First Age tech.

The other advantage of assassinating someone with a Soul-Breaker Orb it does not leave witnesses that aren't insane ghosts.

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Sauce I need sauce the closest thing to a Ctan shard that ever gets defeated by his space Marine individually is the broken carcass of Khaine or Greater demons. Armies of Guardsman and Space Marines have fought captured Ctan shards with necron armies and those have been destroyed but it doesn't happen on the regular.

The emperor is backed by a at this point in time a competent bureaucracy and functioning government. Even if it is fascist even if it is almost certainly going to implode he doesn't just leave with his ship unannounced he's the head of state we can't kill him and expect it to be a secret.

 

[Yzarc]

Sauce I need sauce the closest thing to a Ctan shard

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Old lore but Cicarius of the ultramarines used a vortex granade on the Night Bringer, shunting it into the Warp. It was later retconed into a transcendent shard and I do not know if it is still canon or not.

 

[Degorium]

Old lore but Cicarius of the ultramarines used a vortex granade on the Night Bringer, shunting it into the Warp. It was later retconed into a transcendent shard and I do not know if it is still canon or not.

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It is I Cato Sicarius legendary Space Marine hero and I should have guessed.

 

[DragonParadox]

That was Matt Ward era and is not a flattering era and Void Dragon is the most powerful of the C'tan shards it even by itself when unleashed ended the Rangdan War with how devastating it was and you are underedtimating Big E's capabilities for all we know he could precognition it and besides he is an amalgation of many shaman souls we may only just destroy a part of him than the whole even then it leaves other primarchs, Malcador and Valdor who won't take kindly to our assassination which no way we can keep it a secret when the head of the state is gone.
And that also leaves the issue of Imperium that spanned across thousands of worlds with many Astartes and Titans unless, this Soul-Breaker can also deal with an galactic spanning empire?

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Thing is no matter how screwed we would be I am assuming the Emperor doesn't want to be a field of howling insane ghosts or similar horrors we can build. My point was that he is going to be at least a little bit hesitant in dealing with one of the few beings in the galaxy that does in fact have a good shot at killing him and which his arcane senses would be shouting something about titan-gods from the dawn of existence at him. Especially when said being is otherwise an ally.

 

[Lord4StarCommand]

Especially when said being is otherwise an ally.

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Even if so, we would be robbed of having our own independent insterstellar polity or gaining any new advantages over Imperium and if we have our own 500 worlds big E would give us more leniency and freedom. Even in the best case Big E and Mal will have our own and only world under heavy scrutiny with red tapes and taxes.

Do you wanna see how much headache it would be when we have to explain our world they have to pay taxes to an Imperialistic expansionist Empire? don't get me even started on legality of of Spirits and Machine Spirits whether they should also pay taxes or even will be recognized with equal rights in Imperium's supermacist eyes and Imperium's typical xenophobia and human supermacy could rub off on our population especially since we have less leniency that would mean the Imperium will have much bigger infleunce and big E and Mal will exploite any crack to influence Lorgar and our population.

 

[Degorium]

Even if so, we would be robbed of having our own independent insterstellar polity or gaining any new advantages over Imperium and if we have our own 500 worlds big E would give us more leniency and freedom even in the best case Big E and Mal will have our own and only world under heavy scrutiny with red tapes and taxes.

Do you wanna see how much headache it would be when we have to explain our world they have to pay taxes of an Imperialistic expansionist Empire and don't get me even started on legality of if Spirits and Machine Spirits should also pay taxes and Imperium's typical xenophobia and human suoermacy could rub off on our population especially since we have less leniency that would mean the Imperium will have much bigger infleunce.

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Okay I do feel the need to say this again but because part of our population is resurrected Machine age humanity is also insanely xenophobic and there's no particular reason why later ages of humanity would be less so especially considering they know in the past they ruled the Stars essentially ( we know out of character that essentially Humanity was a distant second to the Eldar at that point but being a distant second to a different galaxy spending Empire is still pretty good).

The imperium's man stances on Aliens does not appear out of nowhere. Baring some kind of long term diplomatic/Cohabitation Arrangement (Interex, Diasporex) Humanity on the vast majority of planets and of even the most liberal Primark is that aliens are good either not here or dead and this extends all the way back to Golden Age Humanity. We won't need to worry about anti- Xenos spreading from the Imperium of man if we conquer more than a planet we will have plenty of it.

 

[Lord4StarCommand]

Humanity on the vast majority of planets and of even the most liberal Primark is that aliens are good either not here or dead and this extends all the way back to Golden Age Humanity.

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Did any of the "Good Xenos" had equal rights as the humans or were treated at second-rate citizens at best? I don't recall xeno armies or xeno doctors in Imperium or xenos mingling with the human population and considering they once sucked a protectorate xeno dried all because their body fluids can be used to make rejuvanats I don't have much faith in Imperium's treatement of nonhuman and abhuman population even when they are off the genocide list.

 

[DragonParadox]

Okay I do feel the need to say this again but because part of our population is resurrected Machine age humanity is also insanely xenophobic and there's no particular reason why later ages of humanity would be less so especially considering they know in the past they ruled the Stars essentially ( we know out of character that essentially Humanity was a distant second to the Eldar at that point but being a distant second to a different galaxy spending Empire is still pretty good).

The imperium's man stances on Aliens does not appear out of nowhere. Baring some kind of long term diplomatic/Cohabitation Arrangement (Interex, Diasporex) Humanity on the vast majority of planets and of even the most liberal Primark is that aliens are good either not here or dead and this extends all the way back to Golden Age Humanity. We won't need to worry about anti- Xenos spreading from the Imperium of man if we conquer more than a planet we will have plenty of it.

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Most of these people are from the post-colapse era, they have never seen an alien. Convincing them that X alien is OK would be pretty damn easy with even basic propaganda never mind super-social primarch and friends.

 

[Degorium]

Did any of the "Good Xenos" had equal rights as the humans or were treated at second-rate citizens at best? I don't recall xeno armies or xeno doctors in Imperium or xenos mingling with the human population and considering they once sucked a protectorate xeno dried all because their body fluids can be used to make rejuvanats I don't have much faith in Imperium's treatement of nonhuman and abhuman population even when they are off the genocide list.

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No that's not what I'm talking about nothing Imperium stance on xenos I mean Humanity's stance on xenos. Humanity before the Dark Age canonically is on hundreds of thousands of worlds do you think all of them were empty or just projects of the eldari. Canonically the answer to that question is no Golden Age mankind just wiped out populations of planets that were aliens and settled those worlds.

This continues through the entire Dark Age of Technology as well. The Imperium for all the of its expansionism and meeting aliens still only meets upwards of 30 in an entire galaxy which should tell you how efficient the Golden Age of mankind was a very least one mixed with the eldari also calling populations before mankind emerged onto the scene in full.

By the time the Dark Age is over which Humanity kills even more of the remaining xenos and possibly themselves in the process but that's just a couple world's lost by the time the Imperium is actually rolling there are only enough Interstellar politys including aliens that aren't a part of the big three (Necrons, Orks, Eldar) that they can be counted on two hands with fingers left over.

The stance on Aliens is for the majority of mankind even before the Imperial rolls in they are either not here or they are dead. Baring some arrangement or happenstance that causes or is specifically engineered around being in diplomatic or cohabitative circumstances otherwise The Stance of mankind is fuck you I got mine.

The fact that the 30k Imperium even pays lip service to not killings xenos is an improvement over the past.

 

[Lord4StarCommand]

The fact that the 30k Imperium even pays lip service to not killings xenos isn't improvement over the past.

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And we are trying to show a better path for humanity not to repeat their vices and our job would be extremely difficult if we only had one world not an interstellar polity and robbed off recreating Men of Stone and many DAOT treasures and possible allies we could have and our deal with this region's forge world get nulled once the Imperium shows up.

 

[DragonParadox]

No that's not what I'm talking about nothing Imperium stance on xenos I mean Humanity's stance on xenos. Humanity before the Dark Age canonically is on hundreds of thousands of worlds do you think all of them were empty or just projects of the eldari. Canonically the answer to that question is no Golden Age mankind just wiped out populations of planets that were aliens and settled those worlds.

This continues through the entire Dark Age of Technology as well. The Imperium for all the of its expansionism and meeting aliens still only meets upwards of 30 in an entire galaxy which should tell you how efficient the Golden Age of mankind was a very least one mixed with the eldari also calling populations before mankind emerged onto the scene in full.

By the time the Dark Age is over which Humanity kills even more of the remaining xenos and possibly themselves in the process but that's just a couple world's lost by the time the Imperium is actually rolling there are only enough Interstellar politys including aliens that aren't a part of the big three (Necrons, Orks, Eldar) that they can be counted on two hands with fingers left over.

The stance on Aliens is for the majority of mankind even before the Imperial rolls in they are either not here or they are dead. Baring some arrangement or happenstance that causes or is specifically engineered around being in diplomatic or cohabitative circumstances otherwise The Stance of mankind is fuck you I got mine.

The fact that the 30k Imperium even pays lip service to not killings xenos isn't improvement over the past.

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Humanity does not have a stance on Xenos, most of humanity are neo-barbarians who have never seen an alien. You are conflating ten thousand year old legends with the Imperium's systematic, often violent, anti-alien propaganda, which also partially excuses the latter as 'organic' to the human condition.

 

[Degorium]

Most of these people are from the post-colapse era, they have never seen an alien. Convincing them that X alien is OK would be pretty damn easy with even basic propaganda never mind super-social primarch and friends.

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That's not entirely true canonically speaking we see that there are hundreds if not thousands of planets that interacted with the Orks in the spores that end up on their planets or just were on the planets that didn't get sterilized when they got there so have had them the whole time the ones that were victimized by the eldari Empire then later the Dark Eldar. (Canonically inspired Faeries the mean kind).

But yeah I don't doubt that we could convince the population that X alien is okay the emperor could also do that but we're no more omniscient or omnipotent than the emperor is so if our population wants to hunt them for exotic meds or whatever we would really need to be playing close attention to that.

And we are trying to show a better path for humanity not to repeat their vices and our job would be extremely difficult if we only had one world not an interstellar polity and robbed off many DAOT treasures and possible allies we could have and our deal with this region's forge world get nulled once the Imperium shows up.

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On this front you're speaking to the choir while I think you are being overly optimistic on the stances of mankind on any Planet really that has any dealing with zenos on a regular basis you're correct that having more power puts us in a better bargaining position.

Humanity does not have a stance on Xenos, most of humanity are neo-barbarians who have never seen an alien. You are conflating ten thousand year old legends with the Imperium's systematic, often violent, anti-alien propaganda, which also partially excuses the latter as 'organic' to the human condition.

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II'm literally not mankind is variable in condition after the long night but a lot of them didn't revert to a desert feudal world they have planets and civilization and interactions with aliens mostly Orcs And elves which if you have been paying attention none of those are particularly good. The world's where the knights are from are mostly feudal and Farm planets the knights develop as a culture well before the Imperium ever rolls around because there are aliens that come to the planet that need murdering. They aren't techno barbarians that have uninformed views on Aliens by the time the Imperium rolls around whether that be tails of old invasions or just actively defending against Orks.

 

[DragonParadox]

That's not entirely true canonically speaking we see that there are hundreds if not thousands of planets that interacted with the Orks in the spores that end up on their planets or just were on the planets that didn't get sterilized when they got there so have had them the whole time the ones that were victimized by the eldari Empire then later the Dark Eldar. (Canonically inspired Faeries the mean kind).

But yeah I don't doubt that we could convince the population that X alien is okay the emperor could also do that but we're no more omniscient or omnipotent than the emperor is so if our population wants to hunt them for exotic meds or whatever we would really need to be playing close attention to that.

On this front you're speaking to the choir while I think you are being overly optimistic on the stances of mankind on any Planet really that has any dealing with zenos on a regular basis you're correct that having more power puts us in a better bargaining position.

II'm literally not mankind is variable in condition after the long night but a lot of them didn't revert to a desert feudal world they have planets and civilization and interactions with aliens mostly Orcs And elves which if you have been paying attention none of those are particularly good. The world's where the knights are from are mostly feudal and Farm planets the knights develop as a culture well before the Imperium ever rolls around because there are aliens that come to the planet that need murdering. They aren't techno barbarians that have uninformed views on Aliens by the time the Imperium rolls around whether that be tails of old invasions or just actively defending against Orks.

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It is quite hard to tell how easily the Emperor would have found it to keep his population from hunting aliens for exotic meds as he never attempted it.

There is also a vast field of ideological thought between hating Orks, which is reasonable. and hating all aliens, which is the position of Imperial Iterators and propaganda more broadly. Some industrial world which occasionally gets orks may not know that non ork alien exist and therefore could hardly hate them.

 

[Degorium]

It is quite hard to tell how easily the Emperor would have found it to keep his population from hunting aliens for exotic meds as he never attempted it.

There is also a vast field of ideological thought between hating Orks, which is reasonable. and hating all aliens, which is the position of Imperial Iterators and propaganda more broadly. Some industrial world which occasionally gets orks may not know that non ork alien exist and therefore could hardly hate them.

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This is true the ideological stance on hating all aliens is not really prevalent or pervasant but when every interactions you have with off-worlders ends with them attempting to kill and enslave you (Orks) or enslave and Kill you (Eldar). You start tending to think of aliens as being who will come to your world and try to kill and enslave you.
If you've ever seen a 40K meme about the impairment man about how there's no nice aliens and then it's my brother in Christ you killed them all that is literally the case for Golden Age of humanity when people say we should take on a more forward-facing xenos stance I just get the idea of you guys think they're way more aliens than they're actually is Humanity canonically exist on hundreds of thousands of planets and even in Horus heresy they're still only like 12 aliens and that's like a Galaxy spanning Crusade.

Unless we go on an explicit search for Sapient aliens that aren't immediately hostile we could be sailing for the better part of Two centuries. I picked that figure on purpose I need to look up some records for the Horus heresy but I'm pretty sure Lorgar and a couple of other primarchs don't participate or start any independent xenocides during their tenure in the great crusade and while Lorgar id notorious for taking a long ass time in his Conquests he is still is on the Crusade from nearly the beginning.

 

[DragonParadox]

This is true the ideological stance on hating all aliens is not really prevalent or pervasant but when every interactions you have with off-worlders ends with them attempting to kill and enslave you (Orks) or enslave and Kill you (Eldar). You start tending to think of aliens as being who will come to your world and try to kill and enslave you.
If you've ever seen a 40K meme about the impairment man about how there's no nice aliens and then it's my brother in Christ you killed them all that is literally the case for Golden Age of humanity when people say we should take on a more forward-facing xenos stance I just get the idea of you guys think they're way more aliens than they're actually is Humanity canonically exist on hundreds of thousands of planets and even in Horus heresy they're still only like 12 aliens and that's like a Galaxy spanning Crusade.

Unless we go on an explicit search for Sapient aliens that aren't immediately hostile we could be sailing for the better part of Two centuries. I picked that figure on purpose I need to look up some records for the Horus heresy but I'm pretty sure Lorgar and a couple of other primarchs don't participate or start any independent xenocides during their tenure in the great crusade and while Lorgar id notorious for taking a long ass time in his Conquests he is still is on the Crusade from nearly the beginning.

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I do not think that is the case for one simple reason, the Tau Empire and its subject species. The Tau Empire is tiny, a speck of dust in the scale of the wider galaxy yet it somehow managed to find in its local area twenty four sane sapient species, not counting humans and and humans. Sane alien species are evidently quite common and in all likelihood the Imperium just keeps killing them.

 

[Degorium]

I do not think that is the case for one simple reason, the Tau Empire and its subject species. The Tau Empire is tiny, a speck of dust in the scale of the wider galaxy yet it somehow managed to find in its local area twenty four sane sapient species, not counting humans and and humans. Sane alien species are evidently quite common and in all likelihood the Imperium just keeps killing them.

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Wait are you talking about land bound or single planet species. Because most of the Tau client races are exactly that hunter-gatherers and others that were recruited / greater good into the Tau Empire. The Imperium doesn't even bother to genocide non-space traveling aliens the Tau specifically are benefits of that policy in the 35th Millennium they are cavemen the Imperium find them and then leave them alone.

There's no shortage of essentially land-bound 10 piece chicken mcnobody races. Unless we're going to be literally worse than the Imperium and specifically involve them in Galactic scale politics while they don't have any level of infrastructure political or otherwise to deal with that level of involvement in a galaxy that's not who I was talking about and now that you have said that I understand what people mean by a more open policy towards zenos.

Though largely the Imperium even after the age of apostasy and Horus heresy is if they are bound to a planet don't bother. Though if people want to do the Tau Empire thing where we press gang younger species into our Empire I'm down.

 

[DragonParadox]

Wait are you talking about land bound or single planet species. Because most of the Tau client races are exactly that hunter-gatherers and others that were recruited / greater good into the Tau Empire. The Imperium doesn't even bother to genocide non-space traveling aliens the Tau specifically are benefits of that policy in the 35th Millennium they are cavemen the Imperium find them and then leave them alone.

There's no shortage of essentially land-bound 10 piece chicken mcnobody races. Unless we're going to be literally worse than the Imperium and specifically involve them in Galactic scale politics while they don't have any level of infrastructure political or otherwise to deal with that level of involvement in a galaxy that's not who I was talking about and now that you have said that I understand what people mean by a more open policy towards zenos.

Though largely the Imperium even after the age of apostasy and Horus heresy is if they are bound to a planet don't bother. Though if people want to do the Tau Empire thing where we press gang younger species into our Empire I'm down.

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I am talking about any and all aliens we can find. Also I'm pretty sure the Imperium at large did generally to kill aliens when they found them, makes good target practice for the guard if nothing else. It is exceptional and the mark of an indolent or just poor planetary governor if they do not kill the xenos. Not to mention that if they find aliens post industrialization they have to kill them as a precondition of taking their land and resources.

 

[Degorium]

I am talking about any and all aliens we can find. Also I'm pretty sure the Imperium at large did generally to kill aliens when they found them, makes good target practice for the guard if nothing else. It is exceptional and the mark of an indolent or just poor planetary governor if they do not kill the xenos. Not to mention that if they find aliens post industrialization they have to kill them as a precondition of taking their land and resources.

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That's largely a 40K Imperium stands and even the 40K Imperium standard didn't kill every zenos the Tau were found in a 35th Millennium and were completely ignored. It's literally referred to as holy decree and it's traced back to the Lectitio Divinatus. Which literally decries the Xeno as Unholy. Rather than the General supremist subtext of 30ks Imperium of man. Which can have embassies for client races, which can have client races and protectorates.

 

[DragonParadox]

That's largely a 40K Imperium stands and even the 40K Imperium standard didn't kill every zenos the Tau were found in a 35th Millennium and were completely ignored. It's literally referred to as holy decree and it's traced back to the Lectitio Divinatus. Which literally decries the Xeno as Unholy. Rather than the General supremist subtext of 30ks Imperium of man. Which can have embassies for client races, which can have client races and protectorates.

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The Tau were slated for extermination after being found by a Mechanicus exploratory vessel then a warpstorm saved them and by the time they came out of it they were space age.

 

[Degorium]

The Tau were slated for extermination after being found by a Mechanicus exploratory vessel then a warpstorm saved them and by the time they came out of it they were space age.

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Okay at this point we might be talking past each other in 30k there are multiple minor races that just do not get genocided there are also minor races that do get genocided there are major races that also get genocided they're supposed to be a subtext and greater text about the relationship and the heading the budding Imperium and how it's interacting with the rest of the Galaxy in this human supremacist sometimes genocide is okay sometimes it isn't flip floping and the Interex are supposed to be where it turns into we're just if they disagree kill them zenos or human kill them.

The fact that the guy who wrote the holy book thought all xenos were a perversion and deserving of death didn't help. A post heresy mechanicus ship marking a species for Destruction does not apply all the way back to the beginning of the Imperium which this is the conquest of Terra has only just finished. The fact that the 30k Imperium is both stated to have embassies for client races and have protectorates multiple not just that one that was also great medicine but multiple protectorates is completely at odds with they kill everything.

 

[Mostlyblue]

Best to go into space, we'll finish 4 major quests + 1 sub quest way faster doing so, and in the process gain cool DAOT tech, men of stone, finished space fortress/station, and who knows what else.

And by going into the stars early, we'll get a chance to help these aliens & humans keep their culture & possibly their lives in the face of the imperium.

Okay at this point we might be talking past each other in 30k there are multiple minor races that just do not get genocided there are also minor races that do get genocided there are major races that also get genocided they're supposed to be a subtext and greater text about the relationship and the heading the budding Imperium and how it's interacting with the rest of the Galaxy in this human supremacist sometimes genocide is okay sometimes it isn't flip floping and the Interex are supposed to be where it turns into we're just if they disagree kill them zenos or human kill them.

The fact that the guy who wrote the holy book thought all xenos were a perversion and deserving of death didn't help. A post heresy mechanicus ship marking a species for Destruction does not apply all the way back to the beginning of the Imperium which this is the conquest of Terra has only just finished. The fact that the 30k Imperium is both stated to have embassies for client races and have protectorates multiple not just that one that was also great medicine but multiple protectorates is completely at odds with they kill everything.

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The great crusade was created on xenophobia. I'm pretty sure the genocide and horrible shit was mainly directed outwards, e.g towards aliens who aren't really considered people (Since they're not humans), and humans who havent sworn loyalty to the imperium. I think the best evidence is the Diasporex.

 

[Degorium]

Best to go into space, we'll finish 4 major quests + 1 sub quest way faster doing so, and in the process gain cool DAOT tech, men of stone, finished space fortress/station, and who knows what else.

And by going into the stars early, we'll get a chance to help these aliens & humans keep their culture & possibly their lives in the face of the imperium.



The great crusade was created on xenophobia. I'm pretty sure the genocide and horrible shit was mainly directed outwards, e.g towards aliens who aren't really considered people (Since they're not humans), and humans who havent sworn loyalty to the imperium. I think the best evidence is the Diasporex.

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Diasporex is specifically a project of Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus both of which are human supremacists to the point where Mr iron hand believes the flesh is stronger than the iron with the intent of pulling the iron off his hands the second The Crusade is done. Fulgrim on the other hand believes Humanity to be the epitome of existence not dissimilar to the bearer of the word. Horus is specifically allowed and encouraged to sit and negotiate with the Interex which is another zenos human coalition and it's not until a chaos guy stabs him that all of that shit goes the Wayside. There's a lot of autonomy in how the Crusade is done mostly because it's 20 different armies with detachments of billions of troops. The Crusade was to unite Humanity if you killed a couple xenos along the way he just didn't care hell if you killed a couple planets of humans along the way he apparently didn't care. The Crusade is based in a lot of things but it's mostly based in Conquest.
Magnus is specifically noted in meeting Eldar multiple times along his path of the Crusade and nothing coming of it. People think that there's a lot of overarching Direction when if you read any of the Primark books there isn't they're given almost full discretion on how they perform as long as they meet their quota.

 

[Mostlyblue]

Diasporex is specifically a project of Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus both of which are human supremacists to the point where Mr iron hand believes the flesh is stronger than the iron with the intent of pulling the iron off his hands the second The Crusade is done. Fulgrim on the other hand believes Humanity to be the epitome of existence not dissimilar to the bearer of the word. Horus is specifically allowed and encouraged to sit and negotiate with the Interex which is another zenos human coalition and it's not until a chaos guy stabs him that all of that shit goes the Wayside. There's a lot of autonomy in how the Crusade is done mostly because it's 20 different armies with detachments of billions of troops. The Crusade was to unite Humanity if you killed a couple xenos along the way he just didn't care hell if you killed a couple planets of humans along the way he apparently didn't care. The Crusade is based in a lot of things but it's mostly based in Conquest.

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He was a human supremacist who believed in humanities manifest destiny, that it was only humanities right to rule the galaxy, he gave his empire these same ideals, so it's a direct consequence of his actions. He led a expansionist human supremacist empire, the xenophobia is a feature, it's not some error.

Horus negotiating with the interex was his decision, normally they would've just annihilated them or subjugated them, so his decision was choosing to forgo what his advisors were advising (The imperial way) and choosing diplomacy & peace (Horus dream of a better way).

 

[Kris]

[X] Go To The Space Part Of The Quest.

Good enough is the name of the game in the GC era. Quantity will always trump quality unless there is a massive technological advantage.

Let's not get bogged down into the perfection trap.