I fundamentally do not trust him to tell that lie with a straight face and make it stick, especially since the truth is only one more question away:
"What rituals?"
*Lorgar describes them*
*Emperor.Exe has crashed* That is Demigod making.
Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)
- Thread starter Yzarc
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I fundamentally do not trust him to tell that lie with a straight face and make it stick, especially since the truth is only one more question away:
"What rituals?"
*Lorgar describes them*
*Emperor.Exe has crashed* That is Demigod making.
I fundamentally do not trust him to tell that lie with a straight face and make it stick, especially since the truth is only one more question away:
"What rituals?"
*Lorgar describes them*
*Emperor.Exe has crashed* That is Demigod making.
If asked about the cyber-theurgy I mentioned in my post, then he can just point to the Rite of Incarnation which well presumably be spreading across the Mechanicum.
He doesn't need to lie; just be careful about which truths he tells.
The existence of the variant of Cyber-Theurgy he invented is great cover here.
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Pointing at the Rite of Incarnation would be an explicit, baldfaced lie, that rite would not do that. It allows a Machine spirit to use one gift, it does not turn cyborgs into moonsilver demigods.
As we're avoiding saying that Thalassa is a demigod then he doesn't have to lie as he's not explaining why she's a demigod. He's providing a reason why she has superpowers.
Someone with a set of modular implants like Thalassa is trying to design, with each implant's machine spirt incarnated, would have one gift per implant so would look pretty similar in some ways to Thalassa. It's just Mythos powers they wouldn't get.
And I think that Thalassa did do something with the machine spirits of the her constructed body before Fan merged them into her.
She's a hybrid of woman and machine spirit.
We're just leaving out some steps.
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We are leaving out some steps that he would ask about and which would give the game away.
"What materials did you use?"
*Describes Moonsilver*
"How did you make that?"
"Father made it with Enuncia, he taught me, wanna see?"
*Emperor clears three months of his schedule to meet Fan Morgal*
Even just that we speak it was already close to the line, that we taught it to Lorgar and together made some kind of super-tech priest described as 'demigod' is I think way over it. We are going to have to come as clean as we can and hope the threat of... Fan killing him dead combined with the sincere offer of alliance is enough to make him play nice. We have seen in the interlude that he is capable of some amount of that. He even showed weakness to his closest companions.
In fact, the best way to disguise Thalassa's true nature is to make lesser versions of her, 'space marines' to her Primarch.
Get her to finish the design of the modular cybernetic framework she was originally working on.
Have a few psykers trained as Tech Priests.
Install the modular framework in them.
Build them modular implants
Teach them the Rite of Incarnation and have them use that on their implants
They won't be able to shapeshift to form their implants, they'll have to keep them in secure storage and have them physically removed and installed when they want to switch.
Ideally, Enlighten them so they can fuel their psyker powers with essence rather than drawing on the Warp.
If a couple of them are present when Lorgar and the Emperor meet, then any questions about Thalassa are already answered. She's just a superior model of the same thing.
Doing this is also validation of Lorgar's speech, as here are examples of more people following in Thalassa's path.
Edit: and make a point of using the same Colchisian word for demigod that Lorgar used in his speech to describe them and other people augmented to a similar degree.
I think that's potentially suicide. It's throwing ourselves on the mercy of the Emperor and hoping that he feels kind that day.
Yzarx has confirmed that we can hide what we are from the Emperor, I think. We can't hide the consequences, so we need other explanations, but I believe we can hide who did them and quite what happened.
Why would Lorgar have to mention Moonsilver, for example? Why would he think to ask, when if asked about Thalassa Lorgar can just point to someone with the augments I mention above and say that she was the trailblazer for this style of augmentation*. Why would the Emperor ask Lorgar what a highly augmented tech priest's implants were made of? He already knows what bionics are made from. He wouldn't have any reason to know she was a shapeshifter, so would have no reason to ask a leading question.
* This would be completely true, and totally derails the subject.
Get her to finish the design of the modular cybernetic framework she was originally working on.
Have a few psykers trained as Tech Priests.
Install the modular framework in them.
Build them modular implants
Teach them the Rite of Incarnation and have them use that on their implants
They won't be able to shapeshift to form their implants, they'll have to keep them in secure storage and have them physically removed and installed when they want to switch.
Ideally, Enlighten them so they can fuel their psyker powers with essence rather than drawing on the Warp.
If a couple of them are present when Lorgar and the Emperor meet, then any questions about Thalassa are already answered. She's just a superior model of the same thing.
Doing this is also validation of Lorgar's speech, as here are examples of more people following in Thalassa's path.
Edit: and make a point of using the same Colchisian word for demigod that Lorgar used in his speech to describe them and other people augmented to a similar degree.
I think that's potentially suicide. It's throwing ourselves on the mercy of the Emperor and hoping that he feels kind that day.
Yzarx has confirmed that we can hide what we are from the Emperor, I think. We can't hide the consequences, so we need other explanations, but I believe we can hide who did them and quite what happened.
Why would Lorgar have to mention Moonsilver, for example? Why would he think to ask, when if asked about Thalassa Lorgar can just point to someone with the augments I mention above and say that she was the trailblazer for this style of augmentation*. Why would the Emperor ask Lorgar what a highly augmented tech priest's implants were made of? He already knows what bionics are made from. He wouldn't have any reason to know she was a shapeshifter, so would have no reason to ask a leading question.
* This would be completely true, and totally derails the subject.
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If we assume the Emperor has some competence as a sorcerer asking 'what materials did you use in your rites?' is a very straightforward question, if nothing else in order to make sure the ingredients are not 'the tears of 999 infants dedicated to Hope and Change' or the like.
As I say, Lorgar can just show the Emperor the Mechanicus rites he invented.
Note that I am saying that Lorgar shouldn't mention the Sorcery that Fan used, so the Emperor has no reason to ask about it.
The important thing is to be proactive and control the conversation. If Lorgar takes the initiative and shows the Emperor a modular Tech Priest with modular Gifts, describing them with the Colchisian words for demigod he used in his speech, he can then explain the process of augmenting someone to become one.
Then, if the Emperor hears about Thalassa, she neatly fits into a category he already understands.
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
What I said was that Fan can hide from the Emperor and others. But not the consequences from your actions. You are actively deploying a number of powers that he will definitely pick up.
For example, Knowingly or not, your Primordial Mythos has changed the Worldsoul, and the Emperor being the Uru Shaman, will notice it and even if he did not, the Fact that the Whole Planet screams out its contempt and hate for chaos is something he will definitely pick up. Same if your shamans channel the Worldsoul to use their powers outside of the Planet. Keep in mind that one of the powers they get is agg damage against "Evil".
Then there is True Faith and the various Prayer eating derivative rites. Those are essentially STCs for Faith. Same with you literally making STC and STC tech.
And lets not forget the Iron Ring. If you get that up, Malcador will want to send a few spies just to be sure nothing can interfear with the use of the Iron Rings, like Mars for example.
Finally, there are the Awakened Machine Spirits, MASS AWAKENED machine spirits, which is VERY atipical.
Long story short, you have a ton of advantages but they are VERY obvious. The News on what happened with Settra is secondary compared to the above.
I do not think that will work, the details are too important in this case with the word 'Demigod' in play and the explicit comparison. It would be irresponsible of him not to get the details when the rite does not add up with the abilities Thalassa is known to have (again common knowledge he can pull from the minds of any of the crew or from recordings on board).
Oh, yes. My hope is to use them as cover, and credit Lorgar with being responsible for it all.
Lorgar resurrected the planet with Dharok's support, with an Archmages in the party after personally inventing a bunch of Mechanicum rituals and inventing a hybrid quasi-religious philosophy that included elements derived from the Mechanicum's faith.
We just let the Emperor believe that he did a particularly good job making Lorgar.
I don't believe Thalassa's abilities are well known. It takes six hours to switch her abilities, which is long enough for someone who can't shapeshift to uninstall one set of implants and install some new ones. And Gifts can both do quite a lot and scale with the quality of the equipment the Machine Spirit is awakened in.
As I said above, we just need to start using the Colchisian word for Demi-god for any highly augmented person, including Tech Proests with modular implants with Incarnated Machine Spirits, and have Lorgar introduce one to the Emperor using that term before questions can be asked.
What has Thalassa done that's well known that a powerful psyker Tech Priest with half a dozen archeotech implants each granting a decent Gift can't do?
Particularly as psyker powers scale up a lot in W40K.
She is being very free with her gifts working on things,m no thought to hiding them and they work by literal shape, changing. I would be shocked if this looks remotely like augmentations that you can take out manually. Why would they after all?
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Hm, trusting the Emperor is simply, well, not something that one is willing to do. Assuming that it cannot be hidden, what contingencies would be prepared if the Emperor presents a poisonous smile while preparing to slip the dagger between Fan Morgal's ribs?
Well we can't really prepare elaborate betrayal since since while we are Outside of Fate the theoretical anti-matter bomb under his chair cushion would not be. We use AMI to see if he means to betray us and if the answer comes up yes we use it again to ask what his weakness is and then and then we start doing agg to see how many ox bodies the Emperor has.
Let's say that when Lorgar meets the Emperor he says to him.
"Let me introduce the hemitheoi of my retune. They are;
Novator Jason, Head of Navigator House Argonaut (who has an implanted Lidless Demon Eye and a bunch of genetor augmentations that give him a full set of superhuman attributes plus Extra Speed and also has a load of cybernetic implants that help him interface with a starship and its machine spirit and Navigate better)
Archmagos Medea of the Colchisian Technomancers (a modular full conversion cyborg psyker with half a dozen Gifts from her incarnated implants and Enlightened Essence)
Speaker Absyrtus of the Heralds of the Dawn (a Colchisian native psyker who has become one of Lorgar's sons, survived the vision quest to become a shaman and developed True Faith).
Councillor Chalciope (Human psyker native of Colchis who is a shaman initiated into Sorcery by the Worldsoul and granted Summoning. Binding and Warding 5, along with having a full suit of genetic augments).
They are but some of my pupils."
He makes this introduction on a ship where literally every discrete piece of technology including the ship itself has an awakened if not incarnated Machine Spirit and is chattering away to each other and the crew in the noosphere.
With that framing, if/when the Emperor starts wondering about what Thalassa or Fan or even Dharok are he has what seem to be examples of similar people right in front of him. There prowlers are explicable by what are to him mundane phenomena, by genetic and cybernetic augmentation and the blessings granted by spirits.
As a result, he doesn't have to investigate further. He knows how stories grow in the telling, and the Circle will just look like better versions of some of the people he's just met.
Because what she does is design or learn the design of an implant that anyone could have installed and then shapeshifts her body to have that implant. She just skips the need to manufacture and implant them.
It's why now she's designed a superior Cortex Implant we can have it implanted in Fan and Dharok, and if we can make enough of them, anyone else on Colchis.
"Let me introduce the hemitheoi of my retune. They are;
Novator Jason, Head of Navigator House Argonaut (who has an implanted Lidless Demon Eye and a bunch of genetor augmentations that give him a full set of superhuman attributes plus Extra Speed and also has a load of cybernetic implants that help him interface with a starship and its machine spirit and Navigate better)
Archmagos Medea of the Colchisian Technomancers (a modular full conversion cyborg psyker with half a dozen Gifts from her incarnated implants and Enlightened Essence)
Speaker Absyrtus of the Heralds of the Dawn (a Colchisian native psyker who has become one of Lorgar's sons, survived the vision quest to become a shaman and developed True Faith).
Councillor Chalciope (Human psyker native of Colchis who is a shaman initiated into Sorcery by the Worldsoul and granted Summoning. Binding and Warding 5, along with having a full suit of genetic augments).
They are but some of my pupils."
He makes this introduction on a ship where literally every discrete piece of technology including the ship itself has an awakened if not incarnated Machine Spirit and is chattering away to each other and the crew in the noosphere.
With that framing, if/when the Emperor starts wondering about what Thalassa or Fan or even Dharok are he has what seem to be examples of similar people right in front of him. There prowlers are explicable by what are to him mundane phenomena, by genetic and cybernetic augmentation and the blessings granted by spirits.
As a result, he doesn't have to investigate further. He knows how stories grow in the telling, and the Circle will just look like better versions of some of the people he's just met.
Because what she does is design or learn the design of an implant that anyone could have installed and then shapeshifts her body to have that implant. She just skips the need to manufacture and implant them.
It's why now she's designed a superior Cortex Implant we can have it implanted in Fan and Dharok, and if we can make enough of them, anyone else on Colchis.
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
I will just say that no one who knows what a demigod is, will mistaken them for a powerful psyker.
Also, while the Emperor is not a friend, he is also not an Enemy.
He is an event and how you want to deal with him determines how the quest goes after that. No more on this till he arrives but just that he is neither friend nor foe but an event.
Also, while the Emperor is not a friend, he is also not an Enemy.
He is an event and how you want to deal with him determines how the quest goes after that. No more on this till he arrives but just that he is neither friend nor foe but an event.
Is that just in person or also from reports?
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
They have a warp presense. Fan really does not know more than that.
But consider this. The warp is a reflection of the Materium and demigods are characters in a story [With free will] as opposed to stories who are characters like Daemons and spirits.
There is a certain crossover between the two.
Fair enough, but as he is a being with free will of his own I am going to treat him as someone who can go either way which means coming up with arguments that could set him at ease and things to bribe him with on the one side and ways to fight him on the other.
Interesting... In that framing an Infernal Exalted would be a novice storyteller inserted in someone else's story.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Clones and flesh shaping hurray
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Not quite, All exalted are characters who have a limited but self replenishing number of vetos that they can use against some of the author's decisions.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Two impressions.
The first is that of an ten foot tall gleaming golden godman with a great and terrible gaize.
The second is of a godcorpse on a golden throne, forever locked in a silent scream that it willingly endures so that humanity may live one more day.
He got the first when Corax spoke of Daemon Lorgar's betrayl in the Crusade and the second when Daemon Lorgar spoke of the 40k imperium.
The vision quest facilitated communication as it as designed to, and while some things get lost in translation, the Emperor, both 30k and 40k are not one of them.
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One wonders what reaction sharing the second of those impressions will elicit. 🧐
The Emperor may already have been aware of that potential future, just been confident he could avoid it.
There are a couple of pre-echoes of the future Emperor the Great Crusade encountered, or of other leaders embodying part of the same narrative. One that had an Emperor that ruled a star system that looked the same as the Sol system from a golden throne. Another that had a heavily cyberised Emperor who was only kept alive by the effort of hundreds of physicians/technicians who wouldn't accept death because he feared his Empire and so humanity would fall apart without him.
The later is particularly on the nose, as that Empire is called the Faash, which is the phonetic pronunciation of the slang British anti-fascists use for fascists.
At some points people at GW isn't very subtle in their messaging about what the Emperor and Imperium actually are.