Hmmm. We can do en mass surveys for compatibility if we figure out what makes people compatibile.
Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)
- Thread starter Yzarc
- Start date
- Crossover
I think that you are describing is more Sidereal bullshit than Wyld shaping, altering fate as opposed to making a new thing.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Going to bed soon but think of shaping some kne who is comparable to z Mythos the same as shaping someone so he qualifies for X Exaltation.
Both are roughly comparable as Demigods "fill" The roll of Exalted.
In short, you really do not know if it will work till you try it out and see.
Both are roughly comparable as Demigods "fill" The roll of Exalted.
In short, you really do not know if it will work till you try it out and see.
I mean you totally can shape someone who qualifies for a Solar Exaltation. Qualifying is easy. Compared to actually earning one, at least.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Same with connecting to a mythos. There is more to it but that comes under spoilers unfortunately.
Fair enough.
Fair enough - however, you can Shape heroic mortals, which is the basic qualification for Exaltation, using the useful servants option of the charm. You can't guarantee they'll attract the attention of the very limited number of Celestial Exaltations out there at a critical moment though.
At least in the errated version this is made explicit.
As I say, this feels like the kind of thing that might be worth trying as a form of sorcery with the participation of the Primarch in question as well as the use of CCP. Not sure what category of sorcery this kind of warp shaping would be. An exotic use of a sorcerous version of Theosophamy perhaps?
I'm pretty sure Wyld Shaping is as I first describe it. The solar imposes a narrative history of their choosing on the Wyld and makes it true with their essence. The thing about making echoes of other things was basically me suggesting trying to use Sorcery in collaboration with others, get them to provide part of the narrative and have the spirits shape the local Umbra to match, and then make that real.
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[X] He wishes to become more like Lorgar
Semi-random other thought. If we give a space marine (or even Lorgar) the Shapechange mutation, and they readopt human form, do they retain their Mythos?
If they do, I wonder if a space marine shapechanged to be biologically human would be able to sire humans, and, if so, whether their children might be more compatible with their Primarch's mythos and so likely to be able to become their space marine, or even have other traits, like a greater likelihood of being capable of True Faith for Lorgar. If they can't sire children at base, I wonder if we could give them a version of the Reproduction mutation that would allow them to.
If they do, I wonder if a space marine shapechanged to be biologically human would be able to sire humans, and, if so, whether their children might be more compatible with their Primarch's mythos and so likely to be able to become their space marine, or even have other traits, like a greater likelihood of being capable of True Faith for Lorgar. If they can't sire children at base, I wonder if we could give them a version of the Reproduction mutation that would allow them to.
One of the problems we are going to have to deal with if we go for the 'Lost DAoT institute' excuse is the Archmagos, he knows we did not find any such thing at least as far as his own departure from the planet. Now we could just count on him to keep his mouth shut, but I do not think that is wise, he seems to have traded his empathy in for more implants.
So here is what could work as a timeline:
So here is what could work as a timeline:
- At some point after the Cybernetic Revolt but before psyker numbers become unmanageable the Colchis Planetary administration founds the Colchis Aetheric Studies Institute, C.A.S.I. for short
- The researchers manage to get in contact with the world-soul and strike a bargain with it, protection for Colchisian psykers in exchange for protection of the biosphere and planet itself. In the process they manage to access Enuncia
- Things stabilize for a time, but the isolation of the planet from the wider galaxy as well as the fact that not all of the psykers are willing of indeed able join with the wold-soul lead to an attack on the facility by 'forces in the thrall of malignant warp entities'
- The loyalists thus break in two groups, the ones outside the facility retreat into the desert, maintaining some knowledge of high technology, but little ability to produce it since they are desert nomads and the ones inside who hatch a desperate gambit, hurl themselves forward in time reasoning that the rebels will regress if left to their own devices (sabotage of factories and major populations may be involved)
- The people in the desert are left with technological and sorcerous keys that allow them to bear witness to the insights of those trapped within until the time is right to open up the facility and retake the planet in the name of the Federation
- The Ad Mech expedition caught us mid-unsealing and incidentally hand us power armor as well as a biologus who figures out how to make Marines with a combination of sorcery, instinctive insights from Lorgar and high technology
- We do not lie about Chaos (though we might soften just what they are to make it more palatable to the Imperial Truth) and we do explain that Lorgar's unusual degree of Faith developed due to being exposed to enemies warped by beings of the Imaterium
- These ancients were worshiping an aspect of the Machine God as incarnated in the life of their planet as well as their technology
- Through the loyal stewardship of the tribe one of thier members was granted holy insights including how to restore STCs
- Fenris but with less wolves and more technological integration that happaned to gel really well with Lorgar's development
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[X] He wishes to become more like Lorgar
True Faith seems like it would be more of a personal thing, but Mythos power I could see passing on. For a regular marine it might be more like potential for implantation, but Lorgar himself if he were so inclined... the phrase 'Golden Children' comes to mind. They might get a chance to buy some of his charms.
I'd make it a bit simpler in terms of number of actors, but keep the core.
- As psyker numbers increased Colchis researched them, recruting the more stable ones, as part of CASI, which focuses on the intersection of genetic and aethyrical research to understand the psyker mutation.
- Shortly before the apocalypse that destroyed Old Colchis happened CASI detected the world soul and divined the possibility of linking with it to stabilise their abilities.
- Then the apocalypse came to Colchis, destroying civilization on one of Earth's first colonies with the use of terrible Aethyr-tech weapons by rebel AI critically wounding the Worldsoul and causing the Wound.
- Forewarned by the echoes of the disaster resonating back in time, the psykers working on CASI's staff persuaded their leaders to build emergency bunkers beneath the institute protected by stasis fields and warp shielding, which they flee to just before the weapon that causes the Wound detonates above them, taking their guards with them.
- Five millennia later the stasis fields on one of the bunkers eventually fail, and one survivor, makes it out of the Wound where he joins the tribe, taking with him DAoT knowledge, and a trained natural talent in the Telepathy, Technopathy and Biomancy psyker disciplines.
- Thar survivor secret passes down their knowledge over a few generations until a remarkably talented psyker is born to their lineage, Fan.
- With his talents, Fan rises to leadership of his tribe, finding the infant Primarch Lorgar.
- A couple of years later Fan encounters the Archmagos, where he trades the use of his Technopathic retrocognition and tech-telepathy to transferring some of his inherited knowledge to the cybernetic Magi in rerurn for education in Enuncia and other assistance. Of course we didn't tell him the details about Fan's 'true' origins, because how could we trust someone we just met with such critical secrets - after all we'd seen that he'd Servitorised one local and turned another into a daemonhost.
- Using his DAoT knowledge and still growing psyker powers Fan reverse engineers the process of space marine creation by studying Lorgar's nature alongside Thalassa.
- Ditto the armour
- And, still in the future for now, with Lorgar's assistance, using technology and resources given by the Archmagos, Fan builds the arcane devices required to stabilise the Wound and safely reach the remaining bunkers containing other survivors from CASI to finally rescue them from stasis.
The important thing is that there are multiple bunkers which we can gradually 'recover' over the course of a few turns. The 'knowledge' of Chaos and daemons as tumours in the Warp can be blamed on what CAIS learned pre-apocalypse, exposure to the Covenant's doctrine, and meeting the Archmagos' daemonhost and the presence of the Wound and the daemons that can support.
Manifesting True Faith is personal, but I think Yzarc said that most people don't even have the potential to manifest True Faith, however hard they believe. You need a basic inherent quality first, which becoming one of Lorgar's space marines grants. I was wondering if descent from them might pass on that inherent quality. They'd need to believe on top of that, which is a question of character.
Best not to tell him. It's not as if we don't have plenty of things to hide anyway.
Were-space marines is just a funny idea. I love it, and am down for giving Lorgar the mutation next turn to help with infiltrating and inspiring rebellions amongst the Covenant's slaves.
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Looks good, the only real weakness is that members of the tribe know we did not come from the Scar, but if anyone could be trusted to keep their mouth shut it's members of the tribe and there aren't a lot of them so it should be relatively easy to keep them from imperial investigators, especially as we are going to have all these scientists and soldiers with false memories for them to lose themselves among.
Were space marines combined with Clark Kenting would be hilarious.
True. I mean, we could make it so that one of Fan's recent ancestors came from the Scar and passed all the knowledge down telepathically.
You're right that the tribe's elders know that Fan doesn't come from the Scar, but I don't think Fan is a young man, as he has an adult nephew, and the life expectancy of a desert nomad isn't great. We could simply ask those elders not to mention Fan's origins to anyone else from now on. Even him having siblings and parents isn't a problem, given that adult adoption exists.
We've good reason to make the request, given the amount of random dickery you can get up to with Chaos Sorcery, obscuring your origins/bloodline makes sense.
Social focused marines that can shapeshift to and from regular human form would be able to out-Alpha Legion the Alpha Legion. Lorgar's rebel mythos aspect combined with his psyker inheritance would make them a terrible subversive threat, infiltrating societies to inspire insurrection and collapse the current order. Sent out as forerunners to the Great Crusade they could really accelerate his progress by undermining civilizations that could stand in his way, allowing his expeditionary fleets to intervene to 'restore order' and claim legitimacy because they were operating to support an internal faction.
Given the limits on our use of VEE, if we want to go down this route, we'd probably need to create a demon, have it merge with a marine to create a 'fomor', and grant the combined entity the Shapechange and Procreation mutations, allowing the demon to reproduce itself while creating another 'fomor'. If possible you'd also give them the Mega-Social and Deception Mutation to make them even better at it.
Thinking about it, if that's possible, the way it would probably work is that the demon would reproduce in nascent form within the geneseed, so any marines created using that geneseed were also 'fomor' with the same supernatural power(s) granted by merger with the demon. We could create multiple specialist lineages of these kinds of 'fomori' marines with different supernatural mutations/powers. For example, ones with the Regeneration or Homogeneity mutation.
It's a subversion of the canon timeline's Gal Vorbak.
The Emperor should very likely disapprove of this, but he didn't care about the Thousand Sons having 'Tutelaries', and these specialist lineages of 'fomori' marines would be the kind of thing we'd want to keep far away from him.
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I think you just invented the Infernal/Demonhost Space Marines... Yeah, keeping them as far away from him as we can manage. I do not think he ignored the Tutelaries as much as did not understand what they were initially. There technically are non-chaos beings in the warp after all and those daemons were very carefully selected by the most cunning of the Chaos Gods.
There are, but if he overlooked that the Tutelaries that were actually Chaos Daemons of Tzeentch, our Demons may get a similar pass as they're not any kind of daemon if they get discovered.
We could also try seeing if we can also have the possessing demon grant something like Scent of the Wyld but tailored to make the, have the aura of a world spirit.
We've incorporated the Ebon Dragon into Fan's nature after all, so if he learns Loom Snarling Deception and Eldritch Secrets Mastery, which we should in relatively short order, it would be thematically appropriate for our demons to be able to grant such powers to disguise their own nature.
Even though Lorgar saved his soul could we give the Nephew True Faith or could he get that from living in our tribe
For people with the right potential, we can grant True Faith with VEE. Thankfully, Lorgar's space marines all have that potential.
We may be able to use CCP to make aurumite. Or use PIO to turn our enemies into it.
PIO is a great Charm.
Do you think we can buy the past life background? That would be very helpful for getting lore.
Well, Bestowal of Accursed Fortune would potentially allow us to purchase it. Similarly the Coadjutor Background might be informative.
Talking of Backgrounds that might be helpful if they exist, the Mage Arcane background:
Article: X You're as obvious as anybody else.
• You blend into crowds.
•• Your presence slides out of memory.
••• You're that person no one easily recalls.
•••• Records, pictures, even memories of you are few and hard to find.
••••• You're like a ghost in this world, known only to the folks you want to trust.
Might be very helpful to avoid the Emperor's attention, and to cover up holes in a backstory.
[X] He wishes to become more like Lorgar