East Africa 1930: An ORBAT Quest
- Thread starter 4WheelSword
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
[X]Plan: Timing-Optimized Warrant Officers
I find that unlikely, considering that I presume that the government has bigger priorities than tell Military Procurement what they want from them.
The "timing-optimized" part of the current plan is that there's a one quarter gap next quarter and the government review is one of the few things that can fill it, so chances are we'll be taking it soon regardless.
Edit: plotting things out looks like so:
| Q2 1931 | Q3 1931 | Q4 1931 | Q1 1932 | Q2 1932 | Q3 1932 |
| Ordnance Office | Ordnance Office | Ordnance Office | Ordnance Office | Ordnance Office | Ordnance Office |
| Veterinary Office | Veterinary Office | Veterinary Office | Veterinary Office | Veterinary Office | Veterinary Office |
| Carabinieri Oversight Office | Carabinieri Oversight Office | Carabinieri Oversight Office | Carabinieri Oversight Office | Carabinieri Oversight Office | Carabinieri Oversight Office |
| Production Licensing: Rifle | Production Licensing: Rifle | Production Licensing: Machine Gun | Production Licensing: Machine Gun | Production Licensing: Machine Gun | Production Licensing: Machine Gun |
| Enlarge the NCO Cadre | Enlarge the NCO Cadre | Enlarge the NCO Cadre | Enlarge the NCO Cadre | Analysis: The Foreigners Have Some Good Ideas | Analysis: The Foreigners Have Some Good Ideas |
| Doctrinal Reform: Army Drill | Doctrinal Reform: Army Drill | Organisational Reform: Police* | Organisational Reform: Police* | Organisational Reform: Police* | Organisational Reform: Wilderness Rangers |
| Production Licensing: Ammo | Information Review: Government | Rifle Training | Rifle Training | ? | ? |
| Equine Acquisition: Locally | Equine Acquisition: Donkeys | ? | ? | ? | ? |
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Rat King
Viera
Our ration plan is probably "buy or steal whatever you can from the locals" while on the march and in garrison it's probably up to the battalion or regimental officers to pay for it from a budget that's set on a per-head basis (e.g, every enlisted man is budgeted like $5 for food expenses, as an example drawn from thin air). Which means we may have problems with "ghost soldiers" - men who are dead, on leave, or not present with the unit but the supply officers are pocketing that portion and saying "yep, they're still here, keep sending money".
But that's just a guess.
Vote closed
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
Ok, speaking of Machine Guns, can we get the M2 Browning as our Machine Gun of choice? It has a pretty good reputation behind it.
Eukie
Powered by furious Canadian redheads
The M2 Browning doesn't exist yet.
- Location
- Titan
I don't think we have a particularly pressing need for the Browning right now, we have the 13.2 mm Hotchkiss that the government bought for us. Brownings would complicate logistics.
In a few years and after army expansions it might be worth revisiting, though (or we try and design our own HMG so we can sell it on the export market
)
In a few years and after army expansions it might be worth revisiting, though (or we try and design our own HMG so we can sell it on the export market
)
- Location
- Somewhere in the stacks
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's redundant considering we already have the 13.2mm Hotchkiss. Plus as things go it's probably very expensive to get hold of considering how much Browning charges for licenses.
Turn 6 News, Rumours, & Updates: April-June 1931
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
Turn 6 News, Rumours, & Updates: April-June 1931
Project Development: April-June 1931
Ongoing Projects
[X] Establish the Ordnance Office - Developing an arms industry from scratch will take time and effort. An Ordnance Office will allow us to delegate some of that work to specialists. (Constant Investment.)[X] Establish the Carabinieri Oversight Office - No one really keeps an eye on the paramilitary police force that keeps watch over the nation. If the force is to be reformed and re-established in a new role, then oversight is needed at the very least. (Constant Investment.)
[X] Production Licensing: Rifle - Build a factory to produce a licensed version of a currently available rifle design. Write in the weapon of choice. (6 Months Remain) ☑☑◻◻
[X] Establish a Veterinary Oversight Office - Bringing hundreds of horses into Reewiin and establishing breeding programs will require extensive oversight, administrative effort, and coordination. (Constant Investment.)
[X] Production Licencing: Ammunition - Buy the tooling for one calibre of ammunition currently in service or soon to be in service. (3 Months Remain) ☑◻
[X] Doctrinal Reform: Army Drill - Dispatch the Army Training Detachment to spend time with each Carabinieri force, improving and formalising aspects of their training methods. These troops will be better suited as a wartime reserve and as partisans. (6 Months Remain) ☑◻◻
[X] Enlarge the NCO Cadre - Reewiin lacks an effective base of experienced sergeants and corporals. Improving this will improve the Army overall. Choose one:
[X] Increase Recruitment (12 Months remain) ◻◻◻◻
[X] Write-in: Promote promising, experienced enlisted soldiers, especially those overlooked due to not being Somali.
[X] Equine Acquisition: Requisition Locally - Requisition local Borana horses from the cavalry and agriculture for breeding stock. (3 Months Remain) ◻
Kismayo-Turkana Line:
Progress, Kismayo-Marsabit: 57.5% (Est. completion June 1932)
Progress, Marsabit-Turkana: 18% (Est. completion October 1933)
Arisaka Rifles, Orders, and Production:
Progress, Rifle Deliveries: 15% (Est. completion June 1932)
Progress, Rifle Factory: None
April 1931
International Headlines
Berlin: Nearly 200 communists arrested for illegal demonstrations.Philadelphia: Aviatrix Amelia Earhart sets world altitude record: 5,613 metres!
Tokyo: Osachi Hamaguchi resigns as Prime Minister, replaced by Wakatsuki Reijirō.
Düsseldorf: Vampire of Düsseldorf found guilty in trial, to be executed.
Madrid: 49 of 50 municipalities vote against monarchy. King Alfonso XIII flees country. Revolutionary Niceto Alcalá-Zamora proclaimed prime minister of provisional government.
Harlan: Deputy Sheriff shot and killed in ongoing miner strike
Monaco: Louis Chiron wins Monaco Grand Prix in Bugatti motorcar.
Julfa: Thousands dead as Zangezur region hit by earthquake.
Rio de Janeiro: Storage facility for aeroplane bomb explodes, at least 50 dead.
The Start of Something Great
The Chikuma, the name ship of a Japanese light cruiser class, has served with the Imperial Japanese Navy for the last twenty years. Now, in the twilight of her life, the IJN has offered her to Reewiin at a marked discount.The Chikuma has spent the last seven years as a stationary training ship, and it is unlikely she will be of use as much more to Reewiin. However, as Reewiin's navy currently consists of six lake boats used by the carabinieri, this would still be a great boon.
Japan is offering Reewiin the ship almost for free; some small concessions would be made as part of the deal, including a case of Type 38's from the first run of Reewiin Arisaka rifles for testing. Otherwise, this is a chance for Reewiin to try something new with limited risk.
May 1931
International Headlines
New York: Empire State Building tallest building in world at 443 meters.Istanbul: President Mustafa Kemal undefeated in elections.
Harlan: Striking miners ambush trucks. Four dead in gun battle. National Guard deployed to maintain peace.
Paris: Paris Colonial Exposition opens.
Madrid: Riot as monarchists, republicans clash. Convents hit by arson attacks. Civil Guard deployed.
Vienna: Creditanstalt bank folds, Austrian currency weakened.
Paris: National Assembly elects Paul Doumer president.
Lausanne: Berlin selected for 1936 summer Olympics.
Geneva: ILO report: unemployment doubled, 20 million without work worldwide!
Oslo: Johan Ludwig Mowinckel resigns as prime minister after fat-affair, Farmer's Party enters government under Peder Kolstad.
Monza: Giuseppe Campari, Tazio Nuvolari win Italian Grand Prix for Alfa Romero.
Tokyo: Nearly 3,000 railway workers strike.
Hagen: 3 dead after communists, National Socialists clash.
Financial Crisis!
Money is in short supply in the capital and across the country. Wharves have no employment for hundreds of workers as ship construction comes to a halt. Large groups of sailors have been seen wandering the city streets as their ships are stuck in port with no cargo. Banks are refusing loans, and the government credit line is drying up.The Defence Council has not escaped these woes: the junior staff has shrunk significantly, and work has slowed in their absence. Seemingly every proposal is met with politicians demanding to know where the money will come from before they can even be explained.
June 1931
International Headlines
Brussels: Julius Renkin appointed prime minister of Belgium.Rome: Catholic lay organisations banned after supposed plot against Mussolini.
Luxembourg: Party of the Right largest party after partial election.
Caracas: Juan Bautista Pérez resigns as president of Venezuela, Pedro Itriago Chacín interim president.
Berlin: Austerity measures spark riots across Germany. Police fire on reds.
Saint-Nazaire: 500 drown as tour boat Saint-Philbert sinks.
London: Bank of England loans 150,000,000 schillings to Austria.
Sofia: Popular Bloc coalition wins parliamentary elections.
Washington: President Hoover proposes suspension of Great War debt payments. France, Italy accepts.
London: Amendment dispute on land tax bill nearly defeats Labour Party.
Rome: 124 convicted, 54 found innocent, in mass trial against mafia.
Madrid: Socialists, Republicans take majority of votes in parliamentary elections. Ramón Franco dismissed from air force for anarchist plot.
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KlinkerKing
Man bites dog?
- Location
- The Lion's Den
Okay, that's pretty interesting. The Chikuma is actually pretty competent for its age - single caliber main guns in a standard-for-light-cruiser 6 inches/152mm (even if it's sponson and not turret mounted) makes its guns pack a serious punch, and the speed is pretty good too, if it's been maintained (and if we can maintain it!). The armour is, uh, not. Torpedoes are 457mm/18in, which is on the smaller side but perfectly acceptable. Light AA mounts are a plus too.
Overall, it's dated and it's old, but it's competently designed and a large but still light ship.
Overall, it's dated and it's old, but it's competently designed and a large but still light ship.
Okay, Chikuma! For those who are unsure, it's this thing.
If it's really as cheap as proclaimed, I think this might be worth getting. Sure, Chikuma is not a good ship by any means; 26 knots is slower than most battleships. Reewiinite naval doctrine should probably focus on smaller torpedo boats, and if we do have enough budget to eventually get cruisers, we'll want something in the same size class but newly-built. Practically speaking its only use is as a training ship.
However, what it lacks in capabilities it makes up for in that it's eight 152 mm guns that we could cannibalize. We could leave a pair on the ship for training purposes, and put the other six into use as fortress guns or naval artillery.
If it's really as cheap as proclaimed, I think this might be worth getting. Sure, Chikuma is not a good ship by any means; 26 knots is slower than most battleships. Reewiinite naval doctrine should probably focus on smaller torpedo boats, and if we do have enough budget to eventually get cruisers, we'll want something in the same size class but newly-built. Practically speaking its only use is as a training ship.
However, what it lacks in capabilities it makes up for in that it's eight 152 mm guns that we could cannibalize. We could leave a pair on the ship for training purposes, and put the other six into use as fortress guns or naval artillery.
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- Location
- United States
The ship's a tempting opportunity, but even if it's being fobbed to us by Japan for essentially free, keeping it crewed and running will almost certainly be another matter - or leave us even further militarily and economically intertwined with the Japanese, which is not something we should take on lightly.
honestly the best thing to do is probably as mentioned above and stirp most of its armament off it for us on shore bases and to take apart to start our own heavy cannon, aa and torpedo factories and designs. we get the torpedos then we can make a good torpedo boat and maybe even figure out how to make air dropped torps at some point
- Location
- California
I mean, we're probably not going further than the Horn of Africa, or the Nile Canal up North, so the Chikuma seems like a medium fish in a small pond.
Also, we should build some roads. Infrastructure is always good for some economic development.
KlinkerKing
Man bites dog?
- Location
- The Lion's Den
I mean, if the Japanese or Italians come knocking, the Chikuma won't do much, but it's a start if we want to get a naval tradition going.
Alternatively, as others have mentioned, those 152mm guns are a pretty interesting pickup - that's a great size for a divisional artillery gun if we wanted to build that - though these are actually British designs, so wholesale stealing the design might bring some rough weather down on us.
Alternatively, as others have mentioned, those 152mm guns are a pretty interesting pickup - that's a great size for a divisional artillery gun if we wanted to build that - though these are actually British designs, so wholesale stealing the design might bring some rough weather down on us.
- Location
- Somewhere in the stacks
- Pronouns
- She/Her
TBH the best thing we can do with her is break her up for scrap and strip the 152mm guns off for shore defense installations.
KlinkerKing
Man bites dog?
- Location
- The Lion's Den
By 1931, there's actually not that many battleships that are faster than 26 knots. None of the US Standards, not Rodney and Nelson, not the R class or the QEs... Nagato and Mutsu are, but that's about it - though the Battlecruisers are another story entirely.
Ehh, I'm hesitant about that. Friedman gives the weight of the guns as 8360 kg; if we were to modify them for mobile use they'd be even heavier due to the addition of a carriage, and it would be very hard to break it down into smaller loads. I don't think we have anything that can move 8 tons.
It's also a bigger gun than what would normally be assigned as divisional artillery. A 6" gun with a muzzle velocity upwards of 800 m/s is more like corps or super-heavy artillery, no?
If we do end up needing siege guns, we could always rip them off the coast defence mounts later.
Edit: I decided to dig and see what we'd be getting in terms of scrap steel. To start with, Chikuma's hull was made of HT steel instead of mild steel (there are some issues with hardness - it's only 160 BHN, and we'd want around 200 "minimum" for tank armour if we were being picky, but let's not be picky). At least in parts of the hull, the plating is around 20# thick, or 12.45 mm. The main deck's flat and sloped portion consists of a 35# nickel steel plate (so 21.79 mm; NS is 180 BHN); additionally, there's a 9 foot wide strake of 55# nickel-steel (34.24 mm) placed on the sloped portion of the deck. The conning tower is 160# Krupp armour (99.6 mm and more than good enough for tank armour), and the sides of the torpedo room are 120# of Krupp (87.15 mm). We're looking at around 2000 tons of high tensile steel and 440 tons of armour steel. I'd definitely suggest we not let this be scrapped and turned into silverware or something if we plan to make AFVs in the next decade.
Is the top speed of the Natagos known yet? I can never remember when that shoe drops; IIRC in 1920 the USN thought they did 24 knots or so. As soon as Dunkerque is laid down, the speed for that will be public knowledge thanks to the treaty system. That said, I was speaking with meta knowledge, so good point.
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26 knots was the speed she reached when new and the wiki also list problems with her turbines so odd are low she can still reach that speed, Still it an opportunity to test several types of guns(she has 12 pounders as well) and dismount one of each and see how it handles on land but i expect her main guns to end up serving as coastal guns as we can use ships to move them to where they are used in that case.