Someone remind me, is atmospheric flight a thing we can build for on ships bigger than shuttles?
A surveyor that can get 'down and dirty' when looking for colony sites would be nice. A close inspection always tells more than pictures taken from orbit.
Someone remind me, is atmospheric flight a thing we can build for on ships bigger than shuttles?
A surveyor that can get 'down and dirty' when looking for colony sites would be nice. A close inspection always tells more than pictures taken from orbit.
You could absolutely build a fleet support tender or fast cargo ship of some sort; though there is a degree of feeling that the Iron Road is likely to fill your extrasystem shipping needs for at least the immediate future
... we might actually reach Warp 5 before we have any significant need for it, so building an inter-system cargo ship is probably premature.
Since the survey ship will probably need a lot of cargo space as is, it'll probably be up to supplying the circles of tents around a generator that the various extra-solar presences amount to.
I think we could probably manage 4, if all we wanted was a cargo ship. The two wide strip down the middle of the center hull is probably enough for everything else strictly necessary.
I just don't think it'd be a particularly useful thing to do right now.
Yeah. Like I said. We dont necessarily NEED a new lightweight 'Last Mile' cargo vessel to supplement the Iron Roads yet. And the Golds, while definitively aging, are enough for in system needs.
Having decided on a minimum size ovoid hull, there are a number of decisions to make regarding the hull's composition and basic orientation.
Firstly, there is the question of whether to construct the ship to full modern military standards (polarized hull, etc), civilian standards, or some mix of both. The second matter is that of basic orientation- the design is currently envisioned as a simple flattened lozenge shape which could be oriented two ways. In a vertical orientation, the ship would have the ability to easily mount a shuttlebay or large cargo bay (or both) amidships, or some other large utility system. On the other hand, a horizontal configuration would potentially allow the ship to carry heavy weapons such as the Type 3b disruptor emitter more easily, though a vertical configuration could still potentially mount a pair of Type 4b disruptor cannons port and starboard if desired.
[ ] Orientation: Horizontal A horizontal orientation would allow for large weapons systems to be more easily mounted to the ship.
[ ] Orientation: Vertical A vertical orientation would allow somewhat greater flexibility in the placement of utility systems.
[ ] Build the ship to civilian standards [Cost: ~18 CI | 13 End. | 26 Shield Str.]
[ ] Build the ship to military standards [Cost: ~23.6 CI & 1.7 MI | 17 End. | 34 Shield Str.]
[ ] Other (Write-in) [Variable]
Mass: 375 kilotons
Hull Type: Ovoid
Secondary Hull: 1 Medium Inline
Maneuverability: Medium
Evasion: 23
Defense: 308
Endurance: 47
Tactical:
Sustained Damage: 152
Burst Damage: 196.8
Other: 26
Final Tactical score: 380
Science: 62
Engineering: 114
Sprint Speed: Warp 4.2
Cruise Speed: Warp 2.9
Independent Operations Time: Technically indefinite in maximum endurance configuration, 2.3~ Yennian Standard Years in standard configuration.
Decks: 29
Crew: 762
Shuttlecraft: 8
Shuttlepods: 8
Spare Shuttle Capacity: 4 | 8
Cloaking Device: No
The block two refit of the Iron road represents a modest gain to the ship's overall ability across the board, however the enormous increase in the vessel's potency as a combat unit cannot be underestimated. The addition of shielding systems alone represents an enormous leap in combat capability, while the emplacement of disruptor weaponry across the entire design has had a nearly as dramatic effect on the ship's ability to output damage. One of the most fortuitous aspects of the refit is that, with the installation of higher-capacity power runs, the ship is able to achieve a 0.4 factor increase in its warp speed, nearly achieving a Warp 3 cruise speed; and pushing its maximum sprint speed to slightly above Warp Factor 4. This has raised some suggestions that pursuing superior energy transfer and generation technology may allow higher warp speeds than were previously believed practical, and that revising our "standard" requirements for primary reactor systems upwards may be desirable…
That depends rather heavily on who gets the Iniative, and if the Iron Road gets to start with its shields up and if the agressor force gets to start cloaked. so probably "however many they can catch by surprise and torpedo, plus maybe like two or three after that depending on unknowable factors like positioning, relative crew skills, concentration of force, etc."
Cloaking is a pretty substantial force multiplier even against people who are expecting it and know most of its limitations after all. but in a completely white room scenario, probably one or two. maybe three if they get lucky. Shields are, as is obvious, a pretty big deal in terms of ship survivability.
That depends rather heavily on who gets the Iniative, and if the Iron Road gets to start with its shields up and if the agressor force gets to start cloaked. so probably "however many they can catch by surprise and torpedo, plus maybe like two or three after that depending on unknowable factors like positioning, relative crew skills, concentration of force, etc."
Cloaking is a pretty substantial force multiplier even against people who are expecting it and know most of its limitations after all. but in a completely white room scenario, probably one or two. maybe three if they get lucky. Shields are, as is obvious, a pretty big deal in terms of ship survivability.
Oh, indutably so. But then, military planners are always fretting about unknown unknowns and hoping that having plans for everything they can think of (no matter how outlandish) will be enough. I've little doubt there's a filing cabinet in the Pentagon or something that's filled with nothing but "what do we do if invaded by [insert fictional faction here]" plans for example.
Oh, indutably so. But then, military planners are always fretting about unknown unknowns and hoping that having plans for everything they can think of (no matter how outlandish) will be enough. I've little doubt there's a filing cabinet in the Pentagon or something that's filled with nothing but "what do we do if invaded by [insert fictional faction here]" plans for example.
The Furious Wind refit had, I think, 2 medium cargo and 1 small cargo. It's also twice the mass of the ship we're building, used a Tritium reactor, and specialized in sprint rather than cruise.
If we mount two or three medium cargo on the surveyor and stick to a protium core - and we have the slots for that - it should not be hard to have several times the operating range. And the Furious Wind does have the range to travel 5 lights, poke around a little bit, and come back. Three times the range would let our surveyor travel 10 lights, poke around a lot, and come back.
The block two refit of the Iron road represents a modest gain to the ship's overall ability across the board, however the enormous increase in the vessel's potency as a combat unit cannot be underestimated. The addition of shielding systems alone represents an enormous leap in combat capability, while the emplacement of disruptor weaponry across the entire design has had a nearly as dramatic effect on the ship's ability to output damage. One of the most fortuitous aspects of the refit is that, with the installation of higher-capacity power runs, the ship is able to achieve a 0.4 factor increase in its warp speed, nearly achieving a Warp 3 cruise speed; and pushing its maximum sprint speed to slightly above Warp Factor 4. This has raised some suggestions that pursuing superior energy transfer and generation technology may allow higher warp speeds than were previously believed practical, and that revising our "standard" requirements for primary reactor systems upwards may be desirable…
I am VERY happy right now. The Type 2s replaced the Lances and 2 of the PGs. This gives it the same number of turrets as the Halberd. The other two PGs got replaced by two pairs of 3a doom beams. So our cargo ship has the same 4 guns to deal with tailgaters that the Furious Wind has pointing forward. The 8 "comfort lasers" are now 16 Type 1 PD disruptors. Decent coverage and more firepower from them then the first version had in total.
This is the feeling of Vindication. The Type 1 and Type 2 standard mounts replaced the old tech and turned our cargo ship into quite the fleet auxiliary. All the suffering during the dev turn has paid off. This is what I had envisioned. This has made my night.
The extra cruise speed is pretty big as well. Takes about 5 months off of a 10ly trip. From ~21 to ~16. I'll update the warp chart shortly.
The science score on the ship is about 50% better then the numbers I expect to be able to get out of a tiny scout. So there is that to consider as well.
Sadly those numbers are just speculation and we can not be sure that is how it will math out. That's why we've asked the QM repeatedly to get some guidance on how much range/endurance a ship of this size will have. Knowing how much a 1 vs 2 medium cargo hold will get at this size is pretty key.
EDIT - I've compared the grids. It looks like we lost 2x medium and 1 large cargo bay in exchange for 2x small cargo and the 6 aux power plants. Given how much safer this makes the ships, I'm here for it 100%
EDIT 2 - The warp speed chart, ships chart, and the weapons charts are now cleaned up and up to date. I trimmed some stuff that was only for the project that turned into the Halberd. For example the cost efficiency of the battery sizes for a 390kt ship. For an ~100 ship the battery rules are simple. 2 Type 1s and everything else is too big for a battery.
Nope. Cool in general, but wildly misguided on our species' specific techbase. Away from keyboard at the moment so I'm just gonna quote my previous screed on the topic (and spoiler it for length), but the tl;dr is effectiveness scales WAY harder with size than cost does; the only advantage of more smaller hulls is the ability to be in more places at once. If you're going to deploy them together in swarms, you don't even get to benefit from that, and that swarm would be far weaker and less capable than either its mass-equivalent or cost-equivalent in one or two bigger ships.
We have several layers of exponentially-increasing effectiveness (per-ton, per-cost, and per-hull) with increased hull size. First off, there is no greater-than-linear cost increase as hull size goes up (at least up to the cap determined by availability of sufficiently large slips). Secondly, for a given number of tons and/or points of industry, dividing them amongst fewer hulls means fewer sets of aux sensors, shuttles, shuttlebays, and other fixed-cost components to be paid for, meaning fewer larger ships are literally cheaper per ton, too. Thirdly, bigger module grids are straight-up easier to fit all the good stuff in. Fourthly, the current state of polarized hull / EFF / Shield tech gives exponentially-scaling durability with hull mass. Fifthly, the battery discount rules mean bigger ships get dramatically more firepower per cost, and less-dramatically-but-still more per ton. Sixthly, the effects of points one, two, and three are increased still further by our general commitment to secondary capability and crew comfort and safety using up a bunch of space per hull for those extra things.
Meanwhile, the only capabiity that more, smaller ships have going for them is the obvious one: the ability to be in more places at once.
For any and every class of ship, we should be asking first "How few ships can we get away with building to satisfy this (current and projected) need?" and second "Given that few hulls, how large can we afford to make them?"
tl;dr always make the fewest, biggest ships you possibly can (subject to slip size and availability to build them); effectiveness scales WAY harder than cost as size goes up. Wolfpack swarms are a monumentally stupid waste on our techbase.
Oh, yeah, in any practical terms, there's absolutely going to be reasons to do more than the minimum number and/or smaller than the maximum size (depending on circumstances- they're related, but usually not entirely equivalent)- sometimes even by large margins! By no means am I trying to advocate an extremist CHONKERS ONLY policy here lol
But before margin for spares, for losses, for future need, for the unexpected, the core of your logic- the basic fundamental calculus of "how can I maximize overall capability of the fleet on these resources", is always going to drive you to the biggest hull you can justify once all those practical considerations kick in.
At least for this generation of tech and for these size shipyards.
Frigate wolfpacks are a totally valid concept in the setting at large, and I'm low-key hoping when we finally acquire an ally it'll be some species with a techbase that scales that way, because our big beefy badass bruisers would be incredible as motherships, fleet tenders, carriers, or even just line-of-battle linchpins for an accompanying frigate pack or strike-craft swarm.
Probably because it's on the same page as the new sidestory threadmark and they didn't notice the date.
That said, now that we have a grid I have fired up paint and put my less expensive system defense boat onto the blank grid. I had to change a couple of things from the theory because while the number of spaces was right there was no way to fit everything due to their shapes. As best as I can tell this does work with the logic the other grids have used. It's not perfect andI'm quite sure it's not exactly what we will end up with. But all the numbers work in theory, so it's a decent look at what I'm talking about. Concept art, if you will. PLENTY of other ways the concept can be done. I simply only had the energy to do one to this level of detail.
Yes, large ships are the most efficient options. However the prospect of being able to build a larger number of light craft does have virtues. It's also the most useful thing I can think of to do with a hull this size, although others disagree.
~57 CI, ~50 MI.
Dual Warp 4 core +1 size each
4 Aux Fusion
Prototype Dual Core Computer with 3 Aux Cores
Polarized hull + EFF
4 Gen 3 Impulse thrusters (could be cut down, but this should DANCE. All the other ships we've done have 4!)
2 Aux Sensors (space for 2 more)
1 Standard Workshop
4 Small Cargo Bay
1 Small Transporter Bay
1 Small Medical Bay
1 Crew Lounge
Shields and Cloak
1 Shuttle
4x2 Type 1 Batteries
2x1 Type 3b Beams
32.6 SD, 36x2 BD, 12.2 PD.
17 Endurance, 34 shields.
Science 3. Eng ~7. Now that the vote has opened, or will open in the next minute or two if there is time stamp strangeness going on, I vote.
[X]Plan System Defense Boat
-[X] Orientation: Horizontal
-[X] Build the ship to military standards [Cost: ~23.6 CI & 1.7 MI | 17 End. | 34 Shield Str.