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Deep Red (Avatar: The Last Airbender)

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MannfredVon said:
I'm of the opinion that she can be considered perfection embodied. Her striving to always be better, always improve, to nail down that last thousandth of a percent is an intrinsic part of her character, at this point. I don't know just how far it would have gone without the guidance of Ozai, but now, it's undeniably Akane.

I can't wait until she encounters the Gaang.
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Listen, and understand! Akane is out there! She can't be bargained with. She can't be reasoned with. She doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear! And she absolutely will not stop, ever!

-- Zuko, probably
 
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Ct613hulu said:
My thinking is that Ozai's overly simplistic perspective on the Earth Kingdom and the state of the war makes a lot more sense if you consider that the entirety of his education consisted of propaganda received as part of a traditional princely education for a second son. Believing that military losses occur because the general or soldiers simply didn't try hard enough or gave up is the type of logic displayed by someone raised on propaganda with no actual experience or true understanding of the real world. His economic and racial policies could similarly be explained away by this flawed education.
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Yeah, during his whole spiel about Earth natives being incapable of appreciating civilization and only responding to the threat of force, in the back of my head I was thinking "have you ever actually spoken to an Earth Kingdom person?"

It's entirely possible that he hasn't. He may well never have left the Home Islands, for all we know. It's probably a lot easier to get an idea into your head like "why don't we just burn it all down" if you've never experienced the rest of the world as anything other than an offensively green area of the map.
 
Ozai does have a point hidden in all that racist bullshit. You cannot conquer the world playing nice, and trying to play nice to people that rightfully hate you will backfire spectacularly.

Sure he distorted it all, but the core of the problem remains true.

There is also the issue that racist powers in the Fire Nation will not see kindly to Akane playing nice with the Earth Kingdom.
 
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I must admit that Ozai as a character is an empty one. He seems to pretty much be a traditional villain who is 'evil' so that the Avatar has an unquestioned enemy who cannot be redeemed. Even his final move of deciding to destroy the entire Earth Kingdom, something his family has been trying to conquer for a century was just ridiculously 'evil'.

I mean I can't really say that it was not according to his character, but given that his character is pretty much, 'MWHAHAHAHA I am the most EVIL of all' , that isnt't much of a surprise.

I'd like to see the more complex parts of him in this story, especially since we see most things from the viewpoint of his Daughter who likely exceeds him at practically everything.

Have to admit, I love Akane, she is far from perfect despite her apparent strength, she has limits that she cannot fully grasp, and keeps moving forward even when it is not wise. Not to mention it is lovely to see just how much her power varies according to the situational.
 
Tyran said:
Ozai does have a point hidden in all that racist bullshit. You cannot conquer the world playing nice, and trying to play nice to people that rightfully hate you will backfire spectacularly.

Sure he distorted it all, but the core of the problem remains true.

There is also the issue that racist powers in the Fire Nation will not see kindly to Akane playing nice with the Earth Kingdom.
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Historical empires that lasted for longer than the initial conquest all had some mechanism for maintaining their rule beyond self-serving justifications of superiority and reliance on brute force.

There is a massive difference between "playing nice" and creating a situation in which the majority of the populace in your conquered territories are forced to choose between rebellion or death. The citizens of the conquered Earth Kingdom are far more likely to rebel when they believe that the only alternative is a horrific death for them and their families in a forced labor camp.
 
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Seeker1629 said:
I must admit that Ozai as a character is an empty one. He seems to pretty much be a traditional villain who is 'evil' so that the Avatar has an unquestioned enemy who cannot be redeemed. Even his final move of deciding to destroy the entire Earth Kingdom, something his family has been trying to conquer for a century was just ridiculously 'evil'.

I mean I can't really say that it was not according to his character, but given that his character is pretty much, 'MWHAHAHAHA I am the most EVIL of all' , that isnt't much of a surprise.

I'd like to see the more complex parts of him in this story, especially since we see most things from the viewpoint of his Daughter who likely exceeds him at practically everything.

Have to admit, I love Akane, she is far from perfect despite her apparent strength, she has limits that she cannot fully grasp, and keeps moving forward even when it is not wise. Not to mention it is lovely to see just how much her power varies according to the situational.
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I completely agree, but I dont have a problem with that. Yes, Ozai is your archetypical evil mastermind, but he's a very well constructed one, you understand his rhetoric and why he's such a deranged crazy man. He's such a fun enemy! Maybe it's me but I miss the good old Dysney villains.

Ct613hulu said:
Historical empires that lasted for longer than the initial conquest all had some mechanism for maintaining their rule beyond self-serving justifications of superiority and reliance on brute force.

There is a massive difference between "playing nice" and creating a situation in which the majority of the populace in your conquered territories are forced to choose between rebellion or death. The citizens of the conquered Earth Kingdom are far more likely to rebel when they believe that the only alternative is a horrific death for them and their families in a forced labor camp.
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The most successful empires gave the conquered ones a chance to become the conquerors, like the Romans did.
 
Ozai was a palace economic scribe or something before he became firelord. His area was about the economy, even if we dont have more details than that. (in this quest)
 
I looked over the wiki and other than his depiction as a happy baby and his twisted relationship with Ursa the only accomplishment mentioned is that he searched for the avatar but obviously failed.

I really hope that any confrontation between Akane and Ozai focuses on her contempt for his ill-thought policies and complete lack of meaningful accomplishments rather than copying Zuko's pointless ranting from Canon.
 
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Ct613hulu said:
Historical empires that lasted for longer than the initial conquest all had some mechanism for maintaining their rule beyond self-serving justifications of superiority and reliance on brute force.
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And the more successful of all the historical colonization efforts were the ones that exterminated the natives.

Just look at the US and its expansion.
 
The conquest of the Americas is a considerable anomaly as disease played a tremendous role in destroying the native populations. I would not expect anything remotely comparable as disease should not play a major factor.
 
The point is that as far as the Fire Nation and history in general is concerned, genocide is the most successful of all the colonization tools.

Meanwhile softer methods can backfire, which is in-universe mentioned by Ozai. Yu Dao is a weird anomaly in universe, an undeveloped space of land that the Fire Nation built. And even as the crown jewel of the colonies, it still suffers from underground rebel movements.

The point also is, that if Akane truly wants to conquer the world, she is going to have to burn it down first. As for now, Akane has been sheltered from the war. Let's see how she will react when it is her turn to suffer it.
 
Tyran said:
And the more successful of all the historical colonization efforts were the ones that exterminated the natives.

Just look at the US and its expansion.
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You'll notice that that never, ever happens when the colonized group was post Iron Age. Also, good luck trying to even catch all of the Earthbenders. Good luck constructing roads under these circumstances. Good luck trying to kill literally everyone when you don't have the advantage of your enemies randomly dropping dead from disease whenever they group up too much.

The only way to do to the Earth Kingdom what was done to the American Natives would be if there was some third party of vast power going around killing only Earthkingdomers at a rate of 99% while you slaughtered stragglers. And there isn't such a third party in the Avatar verse.
 
Jamie Roberts said:
You'll notice that that never, ever happens when the colonized group was post Iron Age. Also, good luck trying to even catch all of the Earthbenders. Good luck constructing roads under these circumstances. Good luck trying to kill literally everyone when you don't have the advantage of your enemies randomly dropping dead from disease whenever they group up too much.

The only way to do to the Earth Kingdom what was done to the American Natives would be if there was some third party of vast power going around killing only Earthkingdomers at a rate of 99% while you slaughtered stragglers. And there isn't such a third party in the Avatar verse.
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All those problems are for an occupation force, not an extermination one. Rule number one of COIN warfare, insurgency isn't possible if everyone is death.

As for killing everyone, Sozin's Comet. But really, even today we still have ongoing genocides, no magical flying rock needed.

I want to clarify that I'm not saying genocide is good, it is a monstrous tool, completely evil and Ozai is monstrously evil, but conquering the world always required a monstrous personality.
 
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Sozins comet lasts for one day. There is literally no way that Ozais airships could have travelled enough of the EK to let him burn it all to the ground in a single day.
 
kosm said:
"Fire is the element of power," Uncle says. "Nothing can survive without power to sustain it, just as nothing can survive without the Sun to warm it."

"Fire is also the element of will," Father says. He squeezes your shoulder. "Your will is your sun, Akane. It is your light and the source of your fire. Lose it, and you die. Never forget that."

"Well said, little brother," Uncle murmurs.

You nod firmly. Your will is your sun.

You'll remember.
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Day of the Eclipse comes and Akane is glowing red and still fire bending. It's no where near as good as it should be even if she was bending at night but it's still better than what most fire benders are normally during the day. Akane can compensate, after all she's used to bending when she's not at her best and while her fire's weaker than it's been in years, her body is in top shape.

And that's how she discovered the Kai Ou Ken Super Mode Going Red Inner Sun technique. When used properly on one's self, they can increase the power of their bending at the cost of tiring themselves out, and it can be used on others to draw out more of their power, make their power run wild, weaken their power, or snuff it out completely. Using this technique requires the highest degree of skill and prolonged or heightened use of it may cause damage to one's body or bending.
 
Rem said:
I'm not sure if Iroh hasn't realized that we're in an extremely precarious situation where Ozai could decide we're not worth risking keeping alive, or if he's trying to help us in his own way.
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You overestimate how much risk we are from Ozai. Unless we act such that he actually think we are conspiring to kill him, otherwise commit treason or do something so public he has no option but to execute/exile us, he's not just going to throw away a pretty close to idea heir. Now, he might "teach us" in ways we absolutely do not want to happen, such as restricting our freedom or even hurting/killing our friends, but overall we are a solid heir and he has no real reason to throw us away, specially with Zuko next in line.
 
Felius said:
You overestimate how much risk we are from Ozai. Unless we act such that he actually think we are conspiring to kill him, otherwise commit treason or do something so public he has no option but to execute/exile us, he's not just going to throw away a pretty close to idea heir. Now, he might "teach us" in ways we absolutely do not want to happen, such as restricting our freedom or even hurting/killing our friends, but overall we are a solid heir and he has no real reason to throw us away, specially with Zuko next in line.
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The dangerous thing is he might decide to teach a 'lesson' Akane has no interest in learning, at which point she will try to murder him in front of witnesses.
 
Felius said:
Now, he might "teach us" in ways we absolutely do not want to happen, such as restricting our freedom or even hurting/killing our friends
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'Lo firelord Ozai snuffed out the life of our goddesses' love, for he were envy and pride incarnate. So he proclaimed: None of my blood who cannot claim power over weakness shall be heir to my throne!

To which the princess said, with tearstreaked cheeks: I do not covet your petty throne father, mine shall life itself.

And with those words she leant down and breathed life anew into her dead lover.

With the court in silent awe she then cupped the sun in her palm and its righteous fire burnt the mad lord to ashes as she ascended as daughter of Agni to forever watch over all peoples of the four elements.

Edit: just imagine Irohs face when instead of offbrand waterbending we invent resurrection. :p
 
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065tdsa said:
The dangerous thing is he might decide to teach a 'lesson' Akane has no interest in learning, at which point she will try to murder him in front of witnesses.
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Akane is not suicidal, and if not caught in the heat of the moment, which is a risk nearly everyone occurs, is capable of proper rationality. I expect her, instead of just lashing out and trying to kill him in public, would instead sit at the table with him in private for negotiations and then kill him with said table. :p
 
This has been a lovely story kosm and your talent in managing such quality while herding maniacs quest voters is amazing. I won't be voting because of the off quoted "toxicness" of the platform but I will be continuing to follow the story from here on out.

Congratulations on what you've accomplished.
 
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