I would die happy if I could play a Shadowrun game with this sort of production value and... big-ness.
I also quite enjoy Shadowrun and FPS games with story, so a Shadowrun game that took this engine and added magic and adept powers would be pretty cool. That said, Shadowrun Returns was also a really good game and the XCOM-esque turn-based tactical team style of gameplay that it had is probably better at recapturing the feel of the tabletop game, so I didn't much care that it didn't have shiny graphics.

Was watching YouTube and an ad for Cyberpunk 2077 came up. Seemed to be all about showcasing the different kinds of weapons:


Not sure why we need so many varieties of double-barreled shotgun....
 
They also recently released the first issue of a Trauma Team comic.
Plot is about a TT medtech who is the sole survivor after a cybered-up assassin wipes out her entire team, and when later placed on another team they respond to a medevac call from what turns out be the same assassin.
 
Wonder if it will be possible to use those Laser Mantis Blades that we saw from the Arasaka Assassin in the new footage.

Plus that Borg Weapon we saw during the Royce Boss FIght during the 48 Minute Demo, specifically the one that kept shooting the weird lasers.
 
Maybe game development would be less hellish if companies didn't start narrowing down release dates from "year" to "quarter" to "day" until their games had actually reached milestones that implied a normal work schedule would have things ready by that date absent some totally unforeseeable catastrophe? And if they spent enough money on QA to not have to overwork the bug testers?
 
Maybe game development would be less hellish if companies didn't start narrowing down release dates from "year" to "quarter" to "day" until their games had actually reached milestones that implied a normal work schedule would have things ready by that date absent some totally unforeseeable catastrophe? And if they spent enough money on QA to not have to overwork the bug testers?

I mean partially that is how they arrive at those dates, the industry just seems quite bad at estimating how long certain tasks take and in this case we got Covid-19 thrown into the mix as well which won't have helped. But on the other hand certain dates/times are just far better from a sales perspective than others and you can't get a better timeframe than x-mas season and the launch of the next generation consoles combined and missing them can have very serious financial consequences which is why I suspect the company choose this route rather than delay yet again (+ all the related logistics which need to and have been set up in advance).
 
I mean partially that is how they arrive at those dates, the industry just seems quite bad at estimating how long certain tasks take and in this case we got Covid-19 thrown into the mix as well which won't have helped. But on the other hand certain dates/times are just far better from a sales perspective than others and you can't get a better timeframe than x-mas season and the launch of the next generation consoles combined and missing them can have very serious financial consequences which is why I suspect the company choose this route rather than delay yet again (+ all the related logistics which need to and have been set up in advance).
Of course, as we've known for quite some time, crunch doesn't make games come out faster. It makes them come out slower, as overworked developers make mistakes that take time to correct, and slows normal work speed due to the many very thoroughly proven effects of sleep deprivation and stress.

This is not a choice between the wellbeing of employees or meeting the release date. It is a choice that harms both. It is evil and stupid.
 
Of course, as we've known for quite some time, crunch doesn't make games come out faster. It makes them come out slower, as overworked developers make mistakes that take time to correct, and slows normal work speed due to the many very thoroughly proven effects of sleep deprivation and stress.

This is not a choice between the wellbeing of employees or meeting the release date. It is a choice that harms both. It is evil and stupid.
Of course, the difference is that what is being outlined in the article isn't crunch and is barely even Overtime. 6 days a week for a month isn't going to drive people mad, it's not even that hard. A lot of people would kill for that sort of schedule. Especially since they get paid for it.
 
Of course, the difference is that what is being outlined in the article isn't crunch and is barely even Overtime. 6 days a week for a month isn't going to drive people mad, it's not even that hard. A lot of people would kill for that sort of schedule. Especially since they get paid for it.
With all due respect to the position you express, go sit on a pike and spin. Defending this stupid malevolence under the justification that other companies are stupider and more malevolent is ridiculous.

This is corporate abuse. It is harming the people who are working on this game. It is harming the game that they are making, because downtime is actually quite vital for mental labour. It has no benefit. There is no upside to this.

And 'Especially since they get paid for it.' Really? At least they're getting paid for working? Are you really, honestly taking the position that that's a perk? That being paid for working isn't something everyone should assume?

Stop defending crunch. It is stupid when companies do it, and it's stupid when fanboys start licking corporate boots.
 
With all due respect to the position you express, go sit on a pike and spin. Defending this stupid malevolence under the justification that other companies are stupider and more malevolent is ridiculous.

This is corporate abuse. It is harming the people who are working on this game. It is harming the game that they are making, because downtime is actually quite vital for mental labour. It has no benefit. There is no upside to this.

And 'Especially since they get paid for it.' Really? At least they're getting paid for working? Are you really, honestly taking the position that that's a perk? That being paid for working isn't something everyone should assume?

Stop defending crunch. It is stupid when companies do it, and it's stupid when fanboys start licking corporate boots.
It's not crunch though. An extra day a week is normal in a lot of jobs. I've worked jobs that expect it and I'm certain I'm not alone. And it's not just that they get paid, it's that they get paid likely 2x or more for their work. Fuck sign me up for that right now. This isn't malevolence, this is normal working conditions. There's a deadline coming up, they need to have more work put in to meet that deadline, asking people to expect an extra day is how you do that. This isn't like they're working 130 hours a week for six months. It's literally 6 extra days of work. Normal overtime isn't Crunch, it's overtime. Stop acting like anyone working more than 20 hours a week is some abused worker who must be white knighted.
 
It's not crunch though. An extra day a week is normal in a lot of jobs. I've worked jobs that expect it and I'm certain I'm not alone. And it's not just that they get paid, it's that they get paid likely 2x or more for their work. Fuck sign me up for that right now. This isn't malevolence, this is normal working conditions. There's a deadline coming up, they need to have more work put in to meet that deadline, asking people to expect an extra day is how you do that. This isn't like they're working 130 hours a week for six months. It's literally 6 extra days of work. Normal overtime isn't Crunch, it's overtime. Stop acting like anyone working more than 20 hours a week is some abused worker who must be white knighted.
You may have missed it, but this is mandatory overtime. That isn't normally accompanied by positive incentives. If you have some evidence that CD Projekt Red is providing a pay boost, rather than simply threatening to fire anyone who doesn't give 120%, then please share with the class. It's certainly not the industry standard. The industry standard is demanding significant overtime for no additional pay, and then firing half the developers shortly after release.

And, in case you missed it the first two times: Crunch slows development. We know this. It is a proven fact that when game developers are pushed, they don't get more work done, they get less. This is a function of how human brains work. After six hours a day of mental labor, any further work is counter-productive. Without adequate time to rest, which is more than one day per week, quality of work suffers.

So, just to be very clear: This will not help the game get out faster. It will only take people away from their families, putting them in an office to fix mistakes that would not be there if they were allowed to rest.

This makes the game worse. Not better, worse. The game would be better, and more likely to arrive on time, fully ready for the shelves, if they weren't doing it.


It also indicates that they're liars, of course. If the game was ready to ship, and simply needed a little bit of last-minute polish, then they could ship it, and release that polish as a patch. So, either this is entirely pointless, or we can take basically everything they've said so far and flush it.


Your lack of compassion for the people involved in this is not something I can alter, but I do hope you realize that this is either utterly pointless overwork or a sign that the game has been mismanaged significantly.
 
You may have missed it, but this is mandatory overtime. That isn't normally accompanied by positive incentives. If you have some evidence that CD Projekt Red is providing a pay boost, rather than simply threatening to fire anyone who doesn't give 120%, then please share with the class. It's certainly not the industry standard. The industry standard is demanding significant overtime for no additional pay, and then firing half the developers shortly after release.
CDPR is a Polish Company. Poland has pretty strict labor laws governing overtime pay. Like they have to get paid extra by law. CDPR has zero say in this, outside of like complete wage theft which would get them in actual legal trouble. Thanks for playing though.
And, in case you missed it the first two times: Crunch slows development. We know this. It is a proven fact that when game developers are pushed, they don't get more work done, they get less. This is a function of how human brains work. After six hours a day of mental labor, any further work is counter-productive. Without adequate time to rest, which is more than one day per week, quality of work suffers.

So, just to be very clear: This will not help the game get out faster. It will only take people away from their families, putting them in an office to fix mistakes that would not be there if they were allowed to rest.

This makes the game worse. Not better, worse. The game would be better, and more likely to arrive on time, fully ready for the shelves, if they weren't doing it.
Fair enough, I'm not going to argue science is wrong. My point is that calling an extra day a week crunch like it's forcing people in the office for 120 hour work weeks is ridiculous. This isn't crunch. This is normal fucking overtime. The sort of overtime most people have to do for their jobs. I mean I worked 6 days a week for up to a year and I don't remember people going on Twitter calling my company a bunch of slave drivers who should be jailed. It's just fucking insulting that in a world where most people work 50-60 hours a week people get up in arms about a game company taking people's Saturdays away for a month. This isn't a crushing amount of work. It's one and a half months of extra work.

It also indicates that they're liars, of course. If the game was ready to ship, and simply needed a little bit of last-minute polish, then they could ship it, and release that polish as a patch. So, either this is entirely pointless, or we can take basically everything they've said so far and flush it.
Or they're trying to meet expectations of fans and not release an unfinished product that needs a big ole day one patch. At this point they have 3 options, delay the game again likely pissing off their fans and possibly missing key sales around December, release a game with significant bugs that they need to fix with a big patch day one or week one, pissing off their fans and risking ruined first impressions or three tell their workers to do a few extra days of work at their peak time in order to have the game finished on time. I'm not sure why option 3 is seen as some grand act of corporate malevolence. Most businesses assign extra shifts if they need to have extra people, and yes this is usually attached with "do this or get fired" because otherwise, people wouldn't show up because they'd just not want to. That's how having a job works.


Ah, the second least surprising thing after crunch itself : the bootlickers.
Ah yes I'm a bootlicker because I suggest that 6 days a week isn't exactly the biggest ask for people.
 
CDPR is a Polish Company. Poland has pretty strict labor laws governing overtime pay. Like they have to get paid extra by law. CDPR has zero say in this, outside of like complete wage theft which would get them in actual legal trouble. Thanks for playing though.
Are all of their developers working inside of Poland? Does Polish law apply to offices outside of the nation itself? How exactly does Polish law define overtime? Does it specify the increased rate? Are their employees forced to sign away that legal right in order to be employed?

The number of possible loopholes is significant, and you're not a Polish lawyer. Even if you were, however, capable of bringing evidence to the table, that wouldn't really matter, because it's not the key issue.

Fair enough, I'm not going to argue science is wrong. My point is that calling an extra day a week crunch like it's forcing people in the office for 120 hour work weeks is ridiculous. This isn't crunch. This is normal fucking overtime. The sort of overtime most people have to do for their jobs. I mean I worked 6 days a week for up to a year and I don't remember people going on Twitter calling my company a bunch of slave drivers who should be jailed. It's just fucking insulting that in a world where most people work 50-60 hours a week people get up in arms about a game company taking people's Saturdays away for a month. This isn't a crushing amount of work. It's one and a half months of extra work.

Or they're trying to meet expectations of fans and not release an unfinished product that needs a big ole day one patch. At this point they have 3 options, delay the game again likely pissing off their fans and possibly missing key sales around December, release a game with significant bugs that they need to fix with a big patch day one or week one, pissing off their fans and risking ruined first impressions or three tell their workers to do a few extra days of work at their peak time in order to have the game finished on time. I'm not sure why option 3 is seen as some grand act of corporate malevolence. Most businesses assign extra shifts if they need to have extra people, and yes this is usually attached with "do this or get fired" because otherwise, people wouldn't show up because they'd just not want to. That's how having a job works.
You are arguing that science is wrong. If you don't want to do that, stop doing that.

Take the boot out of your mouth, and consider that maybe you should be angry that your employers were demanding an unreasonable amount of work from you, rather than trying to polish leather with your tongue.

Consider the following: CD Projekt Red have said, repeatedly, that the game is already finished. That it is ready to ship, and has been for months now. That they could have shipped it, but they wanted to make everything just right before doing so.

Their marketing campaign started with what boils down to "It'll be done when it's done". You remember this? Timestamp, 2:07. Coming: When it's ready.

It has been seven years, and you think an extra week or two would be too much to ask? Don't be so utterly ridiculous.

You think it matters when this thing comes out? It's an 18-rated game, highly anticipated. It doesn't need Christmas to sell well. It is not aimed at a child audience, it does not need parents buying it as a gift.

And, since you seem to keep forgetting, Crunch does not get more work done. This will not get the game out faster, and it will not make the game better. It may, if fortune smiles, not make the game actively worse, but it will absolutely not result in a better product.

Overtime is crunch. When a worker whose work is done mentally is pressured into working more, with less time to decompress, their work will suffer. Mistakes will be made that would not be made otherwise, and correcting them will consume time until either no benefit is gained, or the result is a net loss.

Eight hours, the standard work day, is already two hours over the mark. Research indicates that six hours is the limit. One day out of seven is not sufficient to recover.
 
Ah yes I'm a bootlicker because I suggest that 6 days a week isn't exactly the biggest ask for people.
You could have said "man, I too had to work six days weeks, we should mobilize so that doesn't happen". But as long as your answer to "people are now mandated to work longer" is "fat chance suckers", yup, that's bootlicking.
 
Overtime is crunch. When a worker whose work is done mentally is pressured into working more, with less time to decompress, their work will suffer. Mistakes will be made that would not be made otherwise, and correcting them will consume time until either no benefit is gained, or the result is a net loss.

Eight hours, the standard work day, is already two hours over the mark. Research indicates that six hours is the limit. One day out of seven is not sufficient to recover.
My point is that "Crunch" actually means something. Saying "working 6 days a week is Crunch" devalues that term. When I think Crunch I think 120 hour work weeks with no lunch break and no days off for months. That's what that term means. If people start calling every single instance of OT "Crunch" it's going to totally strip that term of any meaning. At no point did I say this will improve the work done. All I'm saying is that treating this like they've pulled out whips and are forcing people to go days without sleep is grating given the fact that this isn't exactly an unusual amount of work for most people. The whole thing just seems like a wild overreaction from people who either don't deal with this sort of thing normally or are looking for an excuse to get mad.

You could have said "man, I too had to work six days weeks, we should mobilize so that doesn't happen". But as long as your answer to "people are now mandated to work longer" is "fat chance suckers", yup, that's bootlicking.
My answer isn't "fat chance suckers" it's "well shit buddy that's life". Sometimes you have to put in extra hours. That's how jobs are sometimes. Sometimes shit comes up and everyone has to pull in an extra shift or two to cover it. 6 extra days of work isn't going to kill anyone, no one is going to go mad from the labor. It sucks, but welcome to adulthood shit just happens and there's no changing that.
 
My answer isn't "fat chance suckers" it's "well shit buddy that's life". Sometimes you have to put in extra hours. That's how jobs are sometimes. Sometimes shit comes up and everyone has to pull in an extra shift or two to cover it. 6 extra days of work isn't going to kill anyone, no one is going to go mad from the labor. It sucks, but welcome to adulthood shit just happens and there's no changing that
Enjoy wallowing in your defeatism, then, and be thankful that there actually are people fighting to change that.
 
Enjoy wallowing in your defeatism, then, and be thankful that there actually are people fighting to change that.
Except you can't actually change it, because it's not something that can be controlled. Sometimes emergencies come up, sometimes business picks up, sometimes a bunch of people quit all at once, sometimes clients make a bunch of demands and change their minds quickly, sometimes equipment breaks down, sometimes you are being held to a deadline. Like that's how life works. You can't control everything and you can't work off a strict model and hope it all works out.
 
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