Vyslanté
The self is a prison
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Any human creation has a message, whether you like it or not.
Cyberpunk 2077: Rockerboy Keanu Silverhand
- Thread starter inukai44
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- Megathread
Which naturally means that there are good and bad messages correct ? and that not saying anything is endorsing status quo correct ?
I have something to tell you. You can't actually write a story of any length without actively endorsing something. If writing a story where gay people are accepted is active support of gays then writing a story where the status quo is accepted is active support of the status quo. Also whose status quo you are not questioning is an choice of the writer as it turns out the status quo of a homeless woman and the status quo of a rich well connected man are actually different and choosing which is your status quo is a message.
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Answer my questions please instead of dodging them.
It can be both. Now I'll admit that I also think that people sometimes go overboard with injecting meaning into every little thing, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
But, what's wrong with having meaning in games? I like fiction that makes me think. I've read books and played games with all sorts of messages. Most of the time I disagree with at least some of it. Sometimes all of it. I might even find parts outright offensive. But those can end up the most interesting ones because they make me think about my beliefs. And none of that means it's not also entertaining at the same time. In fact, if it's well done it can end up being a major part of the entertainment value.
And Cyberpunk of all genres is definitely one where the meaning, the message, plays a central role to the entire Genre.
Hakazin
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They just did. Pretty directly, I might add.
I guess as Eastern European where the Message usually was demand for Good message as defined by elite group IE propaganda i guess im sceptical of the attitude of this thread where basically endorsement of certain views is implicitly demanded in entertainment product where the main purpose of product is not to entertaint nor to ease for moment the harshness of life but to englighten and convert. Im almost certainly mistaken in this forum stance but it doesnt bring some very uncomfortable feelings to me.
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The main purpose of a game is for entertainment, but since all games will have a political message, I would prefer the political messaging of a game based on a genre be at least somewhat compatible with that genre's basic political messaging, because otherwise it will be dissonant with how Cyberpunk is meant to feel.
Further to that, media with shitty messaging tends to be less enjoyable because the background politics are distractingly unpleasant.
I mean I literally just said that I enjoy entertainment that clearly disagrees with me. Sometimes I enjoy it because it disagrees with me. That's literally the opposite of demanding propaganda for my views.
And again, meaning and entertainment are not exclusive. Not at all.
Edit: And to add to that, I'm even fine with meaning that goes against the conventions of the genre, so long as it's done in an interesting way. That's one way whole new Genres come about after all.
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Alastor Mobius Toth
***** ***
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- Neon Ghetto
As a fellow Eastern European, I do find it pretty amusing that you believe the message slant of "but it's not meant to be deep! It's just my entertainment!" is anything else but Powers That Be telling us to shut up and consume like good drones we are so we don't talk about things they don't like.
And wasnt speaking about you, the problem is when the the analysis is used as excuse to moralize and berate art with which doesnt have the correct messaging.
The problem is when you see The so called revolution try to become Powers that be. That shit is still wrong, it doesnt get right just because you have the "correct" messaging.
- Location
- Ireland
I hope the Steel Dragons are a thing with Yorinobu in the game.
Well... is that necessarily a problem? I mean if I put an artwork out there I kind of have to be prepared for people disagreeing with what I said, or what they think I said, no?
Look, if you're wary of propaganda and people trying to force-feed you one view or another then you should be especially on the lookout for messages and meaning in your entertainment. It's one of the primary ways messages are conveyed to the public.
I do not have problem with messages, im wary of current climate and how good intentions could result in not Orwell 1984 But Fahreit 451 with public hijacked by influencers and authors that push unnacepted messages being persecuted socially. I mean its like with Free Speech in northern Korea you have freedom of speech just not freedom from consequences. I do believe best times for art are not the times of sociological polarisation
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Have you ever actually read Farenheit 451? There's literally an official squad of book burners employed by the government. It has literally nothing to do with influencers, or even authors being "persecuted socially."
Yeah read it and the book burning cames after, you have to look what book says abotu why they were outlawed.
?
I was honestly tempted to leave my post at just the question mark, but since that would be spam...
Am I misunderstanding you are you honestly equating people criticizing a video game on a niche internet board with government censorship enforced at gunpoint?
And just to be clear, I do think that people are sometimes(!) too eager to shout down people, or artworks, that disagree with them but I don't see how "No! You shut up!" is in any way a productive response to that.
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uh
what
1) thats not what fahrenheit 451 is about, they literally burn books its really obviously not about being "persecuted socially"
2) it has literally always been the case in every society than you can end up being socially isolated due to things you say. freedom of speech has absolutely shitall to do with whether people are required to keep associating with you after you've said and done shitty things. (except in that it's a violation of their freedom of association to demand people not "persecute socially" people they disagree with)
3) a huge amount of the best art has come from times of societal flux, like, what? (it doesnt help that society is always in flux and always polarised)
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This is so contrary to the argument that more or less everyone has made that I am forced to believe that you are being willfully dishonest.
not goverment enforced, but activist enforced, i do believe there is genuine threat of cancel culture mutating and radicalising and resulting in left version of MAGA.
1) And why do they burn books ? Its right there
2) Keep assosiating and pressuring other people to stop associating are two different things
3) I would say that the calm before storm isnt best period
Hakazin
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And I'm sure that The Powers That Be loudly proclaiming that any criticism of actions they take using their massively influential platforms is equivalent to censorship, while using the aforementioned platforms to disseminate their opinions far and wide, has nothing to do with how you got that opinion.
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here i was thinking you supported freedom of speech
im allowed to say i think somethings shitty
you seem to have a definition of freedom of speech where it applies to people who want to say shitty things, but not to people who want to criticise them? weird.