Remove ads

Cyberpunk 2077: Rockerboy Keanu Silverhand

Reader mode
WireWolf said:
The Voodoo boys are a crazy gang cult that appropriated Houdon and Voodoo, are incredibly violent and terrorize the neighborhoods they operate into silence by using everything from murder, rape and maiming to maintain control.
Also if we're going from old Lore most of them aren't black but people that Bodysculpted themselves to look Hiatian Creole.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
WireWolf said:
Two examples just off the top of my head?
Yorinobu Arasaka and his followers who oppose his family in CP2020.
And Hideo in Nueromancer, which is the seminal Cyberpunk novel.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
...Yorinobu is the token good member of a scary dynastic Japanese megacorp, and Hideo is an amoral genetically engineered manservant/ninja assassin for a creepy rich family. One is only portrayed positively in comparison to a much larger mass of Japanese villain stereotypes around him, and the other I struggle to see how you would consider "good."
 
greensun said:
So... an in universe company is using fetishistic imagery to sell a product?

You do know that this shit actually happens in real-life, right? Like a quick google search will turn up all sorts of shit from fairly recently.

I... I don't see how this is controversial. It's an implicit criticism of the trend and not even a subtle one.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I mean, there's nothing to indicate that it IS a criticism and a lot to suggest that CDPR don't actually have the intention or the chops to offer that criticism.
 
WireWolf said:
The Voodoo boys are a crazy drug peddling gang cult that appropriated Houdon and Voodoo, are incredibly violent and terrorize the neighborhoods they operate into silence by using everything from murder, rape and maiming to maintain control.
Also if we're going from old Lore most of them aren't black but white people that Bodysculpted themselves to look Hiatian Creole.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

​
 
WireWolf said:
The Voodoo boys are a crazy drug peddling gang cult that appropriated Houdon and Voodoo, are incredibly violent and terrorize the neighborhoods they operate into silence by using everything from murder, rape and maiming to maintain control.
Also if we're going from old Lore most of them aren't black but white people that Bodysculpted themselves to look Hiatian Creole.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm sorry but that sounds even more racist.

Wasn't Cyberpunk 2020 written by a black man-

... Actually, wait, I can totally see this as commentary on racial appropriation and white supremacy gone horribly wrong, especially since dipshits like this actually do exist in real life.

Seriously, there's a bunch of people who claim to be "secretly black" or "secretly Filipino" when they're whiter than my summer clothes after twelve hours of bleaching.

I can see where it came from, but yeah, could be handled much better.
 
LSkullD said:


Whoo boy...

Yeah, this is a doozy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


Okay, they can't be that stupid. Surely there's some context I'm miss-
Artificial Girl said:
Report them for AOOB :p


Anyway, here's the article that twitter thread talks about. It's not sounding great for CP2077 from a gameplay perspective, either. Bolding is mine.

Article:
We're playing as a Netrunner, which means we can hack turrets. It's a little disappointing that the first example of hacking is so mundane, but soon we're tapping into robot boxing trainers and gym weights. The robot punches someone's face off, and a poor fella who's working out gets his neck crushed. It's neat, but very Watch Dogs – you're not being creative, you're just walking up and pressing a contextual hack button.

At this point, the demo resets to before we infiltrated the compound. Now the person playing is controlling a "Strong Solo" character type, who immediately demonstrates this by tearing two doors open with her cyberarms. We're discovered soon after, as a stealth attack goes awry. We punch that man to the floor, then stab another Animal many times with a broken bottle as they try to run away from us. It's horrible.

The stabbing causes V to level up, and the person playing the demo opens up a menu with twelve options for skill points, though we don't get a good look at them. Once the menu's closed, a man comes at us with superhuman speed, but we grab hold of him and advance on a turret as it riddles his body with bullets. Then – because again, we're very strong – we rip the turret off its base and turn it on the Animals. At this point, I feel increasingly uncomfortable that we're shooting at predominantly black people labelled as animals.

On a very different note, the shooting looks limp. Bullets pile into people as their healthbars tick down, each shot lacking impact despite goon after goon tumbling to the floor. I'm hoping I won't need to resort to my gun too often, though: abilities like that turret manhandling spice up what looks like piddly gunplay.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

oh goodness me they're serious
 
open_sketchbook said:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Dunno what that is.
Most of the Gangs operating in Night City are bad news. Like the Bozos that are people that bodysculpt themselves too look like scary circus clowns and go around murdering people ala Joker style.
Or the Jack the Rippers that go around reenacting old Jack's rampage through London.

geckonator9 said:
...Yorinobu is the token good member of a scary dynastic Japanese megacorp, and Hideo is an amoral genetically engineered manservant/ninja assassin for a creepy rich family. One is only portrayed positively in comparison to a much larger mass of Japanese villain stereotypes around him, and the other I struggle to see how you would consider "good."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hanako is good and is disgusted by her families plans. So two and two.
 
open_sketchbook said:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
geckonator9 said:
...Yorinobu is the token good member of a scary dynastic Japanese megacorp, and Hideo is an amoral genetically engineered manservant/ninja assassin for a creepy rich family. One is only portrayed positively in comparison to a much larger mass of Japanese villain stereotypes around him, and the other I struggle to see how you would consider "good."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

They are staning. Any context that hurts their argument to protect their darling does not exist. It's better to simply not engage them as i don't think they are arguing in good faith.
 
Artificial Girl said:
Report them for AOOB :p


Anyway, here's the article that twitter thread talks about. It's not sound great for CP2077 from a gameplay perspective, either. Bolding is mine.

Article:
We're playing as a Netrunner, which means we can hack turrets. It's a little disappointing that the first example of hacking is so mundane, but soon we're tapping into robot boxing trainers and gym weights. The robot punches someone's face off, and a poor fella who's working out gets his neck crushed. It's neat, but very Watch Dogs – you're not being creative, you're just walking up and pressing a contextual hack button.

At this point, the demo resets to before we infiltrated the compound. Now the person playing is controlling a "Strong Solo" character type, who immediately demonstrates this by tearing two doors open with her cyberarms. We're discovered soon after, as a stealth attack goes awry. We punch that man to the floor, then stab another Animal many times with a broken bottle as they try to run away from us. It's horrible.

The stabbing causes V to level up, and the person playing the demo opens up a menu with twelve options for skill points, though we don't get a good look at them. Once the menu's closed, a man comes at us with superhuman speed, but we grab hold of him and advance on a turret as it riddles his body with bullets. Then – because again, we're very strong – we rip the turret off its base and turn it on the Animals. At this point, I feel increasingly uncomfortable that we're shooting at predominantly black people labelled as animals.

On a very different note, the shooting looks limp. Bullets pile into people as their healthbars tick down, each shot lacking impact despite goon after goon tumbling to the floor. I'm hoping I won't need to resort to my gun too often, though: abilities like that turret manhandling spice up what looks like piddly gunplay.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I was just about to link that myself. The article also talks about the potentially...let's call it tone-deaf handling of racial minorities.

I want to like this game. I really do. But...

The Witcher was a Polish video game company making games about fantasy middle-ages Poland as envisioned by a Polish author.

Cyberpunk 2077 will be a Polish video game company making a game about a near-future U.S. West Coast city as envisioned by an African-American games designer.

That makes me think it will be a lot more difficult for CDRP to get the tone, atmosphere, and tropes right.

Combined with the multiple warning signs that have occupied most of this thread (why did they choose to focus on a dark-skinned immigrant gang and portray them as violent thugs for one of their earliest demos?), I'm...concerned that CDPR won't quite get it. They won't quite get the sci-fi gunplay right, they won't quite get the cyberpunk tropes right. They'll mostly just paste a neon coat of paint over an open world city contrived to give you reasons to shoot people.

I'm still watching the game closely. I still want to believe. But I'm feeling significantly more cautious now.
 
WireWolf said:
Dunno what that is.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's a theremin.

That in itself is (I believe) a joking reference to the Thermian argument.

The Thermian Argument is a logical fallacy that occurs when a question or criticism concerning the political statements that can be gleaned from a game or other work of art are countered instead with an in-universe explanation for why the thing being criticized is actually valid. If someone asks "Why do the girls in this game wear skimpy, titillating armor while the men wear realistic and reasonable armor?" and you counter with the girls in this universe are actually more powerful with less clothes on and thus it's okay, then you've committed the Thermian Argument, so to speak.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So, the point being made is that the in-universe explanation is irrelevant to the out-of-universe concern.
 
The Laurent said:
​
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Like?
Here's the writeup.
The Voodoo Boys are one of the many gangs in Night City.

Details
This is a terrorist gang of drug dealers. They engage in weird magic rituals, and deal non-synthetic drugs to students near the University. Sadistic and pitiless, they will kill, torture, and rape for any reason or no reason at all. Victims will sometimes be warned with Chicken blood and feathers on their doorstep. Or not. Their motives and practices have no consistency. Mutilating and maiming victims is common, as is dissecting their body parts for rituals or to use to inspire terror.

Their nihilism and drug use is attractive to some university students. They are sometimes let into the gang, but they are never considered real members. The gang exploits them as cannon fodder for low level crimes, or milks them for funds from their family at home.

No outsider has ever successfully infiltrated the gang. They have no fixed headquarters or crash pads. The location and time for the next meeting is chosen at the end of each meeting. At least two high profile Medias have died while trying to cover this gang. They are considered a priority for the NCPD, violent and dangerous. The terror they inspire has been successful in keeping the local merchants quiet and uncooperative with the police.

They can most often be found at Hababas, an ex-biker bar. They have a perverse celebrity there, and implied threats of violence keep the owners and other patrons in line. This is also where most of their drugs are dealt. If you're a white middle class student who manages to make it through the jeering harassment to the bar, you can expect to receive better prices. But leave your girlfriend at home.

Despite the biosculpting, tattoos, feather implants, and bones through their noses and ears, most members of the gang started as average white boys. Most are male, though female members exist as well. The females are often much worse, as they have twice as much to prove as the males.

Right now, they have no conflicts with any other gangs. There is some speculation that the Bozosc expand their turf into the University area however, which would bring the two gangs into conflict.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


LSkullD said:
I'm sorry but that sounds even more racist.

Wasn't Cyberpunk 2020 written by a black man-

... Actually, wait, I can totally see this as commentary on racial appropriation and white supremacy gone horribly wrong, especially since dipshits like this actually do exist in real life.

Seriously, there's a bunch of people who claim to be "secretly black" or "secretly Filipino" when they're whiter than my summer clothes after twelve hours of bleaching.

I can see where it came from, but yeah, could be handled much better.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes, Mike Pondsmith is black. Graduated from UC Davis with a degree in BA in Graphic Design and a BS in Behavioral Pyschology. Guys got an amazing background in the PnP and Videogame industry and also teaches at a Tech Institute.

ShyPerson said:
They are staning. Any context that hurts their argument to protect their darling does not exist. It's better to simply not engage them as i don't think they are arguing in good faith.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
How nice that you pretend to know my motives. -_-
"His opinion and thoughts on the subject are different so he must obviously not be debating in good faith."
 
Last edited:
I can already feel my confidence in this game go lower than zero. Thank you for that, I suppose.
 
Okay so I'm wading into an issue I'm not experienced with but I'm just gonna say this. I don't think the vending machine person is suppose to be trans. Because from the chest up, I've seen that before in guys. The hair cut in particular but also the makeup, the lipstick, the nails. I've seen non-trans men do similar things to that look. Yes I know it says mix it up but considering how notable that penis is, you think if this was a crude ad sexualizing a trans person you would expect them to have a notable chest and not be flat.

Like it's still clearly sexualizing and fetishizing that person. But is that the company doing it or an example of someone in game doing that? Like I'm not going to pretend CD Projekt Red isn't a bit frat boy in attitude but then again the E3 trailer we just got highly implied V in that run was gay and did so in a fairly tactful way. If I'm stepping on toes I'm really sorry because I do not mean to do so.
 
I gotta say, I'm a little disappointed in Cherami Leigh's performace in the demo, since I heard her work as A2 in Nier automata, and it had just the right flavour of world-weariness, perfect for Cyberpunk. Shame the voice director at CD Projekt didn't feel the same way :/

Then again, Nier Automata was being developed at the same time as 2077, so...

Aw crap.

Fanfic Fuel. AGAIN!
 
Last edited:
Based on hearsay, it sounds like CPPR might have just taken the street gangs from the old sourcebooks (which were themselves very one-note factions with little depth beyond what the GM gave them) and transplanted them straight into Cyberpunk 2077 with little heed as to how stuff originating from the 80s might come off incredibly poorly in the modern day.
 
Teen Spirit said:
Okay so I'm wading into an issue I'm not experienced with but I'm just gonna say this. I don't think the vending machine person is suppose to be trans. Because from the chest up, I've seen that before in guys. The hair cut in particular but also the makeup, the lipstick, the nails. I've seen non-trans men do similar things to that look. Yes I know it says mix it up but considering how notable that penis is, you think if this was a crude ad sexualizing a trans person you would expect them to have a notable chest and not be flat.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Not if it's sexualizing a nonbinary person.

Teen Spirit said:
Like it's still clearly sexualizing and fetishizing that person. But is that the company doing it or an example of someone in game doing that? Like I'm not going to pretend CD Projekt Red isn't a bit frat boy in attitude but then again the E3 trailer we just got highly implied V in that run was gay and did so in a fairly tactful way. If I'm stepping on toes I'm really sorry because I do not mean to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Thermian argument again. I'm pretty sure this is a bone thrown at the people who sexualize trans people and will buy the game, not a deep statement about sexualization in general.
 
Mechasaurian said:
Based on hearsay, it sounds like CPPR might have just taken the street gangs from the old sourcebooks (which were themselves very one-note factions with little depth beyond what the GM gave them) and transplanted them straight into Cyberpunk 2077 with little heed as to how stuff originating from the 80s might come off incredibly poorly in the modern day.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, if they hadn't done that, odds are good that people would have complained — loudly — about not staying true to the source material. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 
IgnusDei said:
Well, if they hadn't done that, odds are good that people would have complained — loudly — about not staying true to the source material. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Mmh, let's see, should we piss off a handful of irrelevant purists or a bunch of vulnerable minorities? Must be the minorities, they can't fight back!
 
IgnusDei said:
Well, if they hadn't done that, odds are good that people would have complained — loudly — about not staying true to the source material. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ah yes. Tabletop game purists. The biggest video game audience in existence. How could I ever forget this?
 
IgnusDei said:
Well, if they hadn't done that, odds are good that people would have complained — loudly — about not staying true to the source material. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This game is set more than fifty years after the source material. It's honestly kind of stupid, thinking about it, that the political and street scene looks at *all* like the original. Hell, now I'm questioning why people still care about Johnny Silverhand, given he died in the 2020s.

The main character is listening to the future equivalent of Boomer oldies stations.
 
Mechasaurian said:
Based on hearsay, it sounds like CPPR might have just taken the street gangs from the old sourcebooks (which were themselves very one-note factions with little depth beyond what the GM gave them) and transplanted them straight into Cyberpunk 2077 with little heed as to how stuff originating from the 80s might come off incredibly poorly in the modern day.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We've known that for at LEAST a year. The Gang last year, Maelstrom was another gang from the Night City Sourcebook.
Granted that new one, the Animals? That's new. But them being 'Dorphers makes sense.

geckonator9 said:
This game is set more than fifty years after the source material. It's honestly kind of stupid, thinking about it, that the political and street scene looks at *all* like the original. Hell, now I'm questioning why people still care about Johnny Silverhand, given he died in the 2020s.

The main character is listening to the future equivalent of Boomer oldies stations.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They seem to have their own twists. The Voodoo boys for example never gave a fuck about transcendent stuff and are now lurking in Pacifica. (Pacifica used to be a wealthy suburb with a huge theme park and an arcology housing 20k people...Now it sounds like a combat zone.)

The Maelstrom didn't use to be in the tech smuggling racket and weren't big enough to even dream of crossing MiliTech.

And Johnny apparently survived the Fourth Corporate War because in last year's demo he'd apparently passed away in 2076.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top