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Blood of the Gods: A Fantasy CKII Quest

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The Laurent said:
Though I'll note our Stewardship isn't actually mediocre, and at its base is higher than martial. I mean, anything over ten isn't mediocre, or at least should be called something that doesn't make me think of Immortan Joe's disapproval. :V
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Even then.
It is currently safely at exceptional and because of the overabundance of stewardship advisors can stay that way.
Our war skills and command over men, which we IC decided to raise as much as we could, is a much better choice.
Cavalier said:
You will need to pay more attention to your aunt and to Ma'atneferure to become a proper lady of the court and to learn how to earn the love of nobles, servants, and peasants alike. And you will need to find someone to teach you the arts of war.
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Throughout the prologue we have focused on Aunt and governess, and are even now learning protocol from her.
Mentoring under Khui gets us the training to command men and fight too, which is hard to find otherwise.
 
I am categorically opposed to any option that grants a great deal of privilege to Khui. Regardless of your past arguments, the idea that getting Khui in our favor will ingratiate the army does not convince me. The senate can shower honors on the general, but he will still cross the Rubicon as he wishes. Neglect of the army means that it is unlikely to look to the pharoah for natural leadership, especially a female pharoah. I'm not sure how you can argue, regardless of the fact that our mother is an unreliable narrator, that a man who rises from captain to general in two years is not ambitious.

I also find your ignorance of Neferet's actual character impressive but not very convincing. Why does Neferet want us on the throne? Because despite the fact that when we were very young she disliked us, it is clear that from when we were six she has become far friendlier than us, and in the end we are her brother's daughter, whatever her feelings towards Satysis. She is inevitably going to die, she is aware of this fact, and she has no children.

It's quite possible that when we are old enough Neferet, who has no political future, will simply step aside. There is no evidence that Khui would, since he is likely quite aware that these precarious situations are exactly how dynasties end.
 
Though at the same time, then we do need to find a way to cultivate someone in the army, or out of the army, who can teach us a little more about strategy/being a leader. Because we need the skills to find the man to replace him, or at least to challenge him enough to keep Khui from consolidating too much.

Next turn I'm thinking Hathor-Sekmet, Mentor, *something related to army or martial*, and something related either to policy, or to improving one of our weak areas. Though depending on what happens, my mind might change.

Edit: Though, don't overestimate Khui's powers to oppose us, at least as he currently stands.

Ultimately, whether with Khui or someone else, your words seem to imply that there's nothing we can do against the general/army if they decide to act, @Cetashwayo , and I'm not so sure about that.

I mean, note I'm on the same side as you as far as the Mentor thing goes with Khui. And I think I might be misinterpreting your first paragraph's words, so not sure about that.'

Edit 2: Oh, and the first edit turned out to be unnecessary. That's a good point about the chariot training.
 
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The Laurent said:
Though at the same time, then we do need to find a way to cultivate someone in the army, or out of the army, who can teach us a little more about strategy/being a leader. Because we need the skills to find the man to replace him, or at least to challenge him enough to keep Khui from consolidating too much.

Next turn I'm thinking Hathor-Sekmet, Mentor, *something related to army or martial*, and something related either to policy, or to improving one of our weak areas. Though depending on what happens, my mind might change.
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Sure. We might meet someone from the army we can cultivate from chariot-riding.
 
Though I admit, I'm really curious about the rumors swirling around Khui. I mean, if there's any merit for it, "In love with a eunuch" sounds like an interesting situation indeed. Interesting enough that I almost want to hear more.
 
Cetashwayo said:
I am categorically opposed to any option that grants a great deal of privilege to Khui. Regardless of your past arguments, the idea that getting Khui in our favor will ingratiate the army does not convince me. The senate can shower honors on the general, but he will still cross the Rubicon as he wishes. Neglect of the army means that it is unlikely to look to the pharoah for natural leadership, especially a female pharoah. I'm not sure how you can argue, regardless of the fact that our mother is an unreliable narrator, that a man who rises from captain to general in two years is not ambitious.
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Sure.
But we are in the best position to kill him if we study under him, because we will have much higher Martial to direct our own troops.
In the event of his death, we would also have the highest Martial left in the Kingdom of Kemet, meaning remnants f army would naturally fall to us.
 
RedV said:
Sure.
But we are in the best position to kill him if we study under him, because we will have much higher Martial to direct our own troops.
In the event of his death, we would also have the highest Martial left in the Kingdom of Kemet, meaning remnants f army would naturally fall to us.
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Ultimately, though, a palace coup wouldn't necessarily involve that. I mean, if it gets to the point where he's actually charging through the palace with his army searching for us with a sharpened sword, then all of the martial in the world probably won't let our beleaguered guard do more than cut their way out and then flee.

Also, I doubt your assertion. Remember, people can't see stat scores. We might get influence over what remains of the army after a purge. Or they might hate us for ruining their shot at being the guys who support the guy who is the new Pharaoh. If it actually comes down to swords drawn, we sorta automatically lose. Not because the army is all powerful, but because even if we kill him, we've created a bloody crisis that will mar our rule and threaten to cause even further instability.
 
Cetashwayo said:
It's quite possible that when we are old enough Neferet, who has no political future, will simply step aside. There is no evidence that Khui would, since he is likely quite aware that these precarious situations are exactly how dynasties end.
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No, but we do not have to displace Khui. Why is him resigning from commandership of the Army a thing needed for us to go to the throne?
He can serve under us as a commander if we can convince him or something. We do have to displace Neferet. The situations are quite different.
 
The Laurent said:
Also, I doubt your assertion. Remember, people can't see stat scores
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No, but they can see that we are the general who won Egyptian Civil War, and so are a better commander of troops. His personal confidants may die, but it would cement our rep as a commander.

And fighting him in a civil war is not an automatic loss. It simply means we deal with yet another traitor.

Ultimately, his plans on doing a civil war or not are not affected in the slightest by us studying from him.

Our ability to resist him via training and insight into his thought process and interaction/loyalty of his troops is.

Like tell me one thing. How is not learning from him going to relevantly slow down his coup d'etat? How do you think that is going to happen?
 
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RedV said:
No, but we do not have to displace Khui. Why is him resigning from commandership of the Army a thing needed for us to go to the throne?
He can serve under us as a commander if we can convince him or something. We do have to displace Neferet. The situations are quite different.
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He can serve under us but I don't expect such a serving to have a long political future. When a man who's on the up is told he can no longer go up, and he doesn't seem like the type to respect royal authority super much (see him holding his ceremonial mace like a club, which in real life is just a random detail but in a quest is pointedly put there for a reason), you can't expect him to just fall in line.

There's a chance I could be proven false, but since the risk is critical quest failure, I want to at the very least follow Laurent's line of thought and investigate Khui. We are mostly basing stuff on hints, our mother, his biography, and conjecture. Until we either commit to bringing him closer to us or eliminating him, we need to actually figure out what's what with that weird eunuch line.
 
Cetashwayo said:
He can serve under us but I don't expect such a serving to have a long political future. When a man who's on the up is told he can no longer go up, and he doesn't seem like the type to respect royal authority super much (see him holding his ceremonial mace like a club, which in real life is just a random detail but in a quest is pointedly put there for a reason), you can't expect him to just fall in line.

There's a chance I could be proven false, but since the risk is critical quest failure, I want to at the very least follow Laurent's line of thought and investigate Khui. We are mostly basing stuff on hints, our mother, his biography, and conjecture. Until we either commit to bringing him closer to us or eliminating him, we need to actually figure out what's what with that weird eunuch line.
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Also, it's everyone's favorite time: random paranoia time!

*puts on tinfoil hat.*

What if the 'love of the eunuch' is actually him meeting with the eunuchs to plot for power, and at the right time the eunuchs and the army are going to work together to take power (no doubt plotting to betray each other the whole time). They are sure that the Queen will come to trust one or the other of them (the eunuchs or Khui) and they will then gain her trust and kill her, and then no doubt turn on each other, or something.

*removes tinfoil hat.*
 
Cetashwayo said:
He can serve under us but I don't expect such a serving to have a long political future. When a man who's on the up is told he can no longer go up, and he doesn't seem like the type to respect royal authority super much (see him holding his ceremonial mace like a club, which in real life is just a random detail but in a quest is pointedly put there for a reason), you can't expect him to just fall in line.

There's a chance I could be proven false, but since the risk is critical quest failure, I want to at the very least follow Laurent's line of thought and investigate Khui. We are mostly basing stuff on hints, our mother, his biography, and conjecture. Until we either commit to bringing him closer to us or eliminating him, we need to actually figure out what's what with that weird eunuch line.
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Yeah. All this could be, and likely is true. But:
RedV said:
Like tell me one thing. How is not learning from him going to relevantly slow down his coup d'etat? How do you think that is going to happen?
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How does not having any positive interaction with him, or having it, affect the fact that he is plotting against us? If not taking him as a mentor slowed down his schemes, then I would throw him the hell away. But it does nothing to stop or aid his schemes if we learn/do not learn from him,. and actually relevantly increases our skill to resist it.
 
RedV said:
Yeah. All this could be, and likely is true. But:

How does not having any positive interaction with him, or having it, affect the fact that he is plotting against us? If not taking him as a mentor slowed down his schemes, then I would throw him the hell away. But it does nothing to stop or aid his schemes if we learn/do not learn from him,. and actually relevantly increases our skill tyo resist it.
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Being a mentor allows him to gain our trust. I mean, it's a two way street, but there are many men who are perfectly willing to play nice to someone for just long enough to measure the dagger. If we grow to trust him, he could abuse it. Note, though, that this is true of absolutely anyone and everyone we choose as a mentor. Hence why it is an important decision to make, and not one we should enter into lightly.
 
While it's healthy to reserve trust, let's also not give Eurydice the "paranoid" trait inadvertently :V

RedV said:
How does not having any positive interaction with him, or having it, affect the fact that he is plotting against us? If not taking him as a mentor slowed down his schemes, then I would throw him the hell away. But it does nothing to stop his schemes if we learn from him,. and actually relevantly increases our skill tyo resist it.
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Because taking him as a mentor gives a man who went from captain to general to the major tutor and ear of the Pharoah a great deal of legitimacy in the eyes of the court. It doesn't matter if we secretly are plotting against him in this respect and if during mentoring we explicitly rebuke him we endanger our lives. Plus, there's the possibility Laurent mentioned of him entering into our trust and then shoving a dagger in our backs. I wanted Neferet or Ipy as "safe" mentors for this reason. Yeah, they might give us poorer stats, but this isn't CK2 and our dynasty is precarious.
 
The Laurent said:
Being a mentor allows him to gain our trust. I mean, it's a two way street, but there are many men who are perfectly willing to play nice to someone for just long enough to measure the dagger. If we grow to trust him, he could abuse it. Note, though, that this is true of absolutely anyone and everyone we choose as a mentor. Hence why it is an important decision to make, and not one we should enter into lightly.
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...we are a socially specialised character, and have our paranoid yandere mom to tell us stuff or help us with magic.
I do believe we out- conspiratize him.

Cetashwayo said:
Because taking him as a mentor gives a man who went from captain to general to the major tutor and ear of the Pharoah a great deal of legitimacy in the eyes of the court.
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This legitimacy is as a servant of the Pharaoh, and even if the court supports his bid for power its not a relevant thing because they can't add forces to an armed coup. Also, his position at court is worse than you think. He isn't decorated rich general coming home with honours, but just a dude who was uplifted likely because last few died in the bandit attacks.
 
RedV said:
This legitimacy is as a servant of the Pharaoh, and even if the court supports his bid for power its not a relevant thing because they can't add forces to an armed coup. Also, his position at court is worse than you think. He isn't decorated rich general coming home with honours, but just a dude who was uplifted likely because last few died in the bandit attacks.
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I know, but that's a problem. If his position is bad at court, then him becoming our mentor will elevate his position at court. This is how a lot of court patronage systems worked; you would be surprised at how self-serving courtiers can be. It's like when Speranski had the ear of Tsar Alexander, everyone wanted to be friends with Speranski. It'll be the same; you'll get a lot of people looking to Khui to see if he can get favors from us for x or y person. And that gives him importance, and unlike Alexander we don't have the same legitimacy to just throw him out because we aren't even rulers in our own right yet, and Khui is no Speranski.
 
Okay, I'll give you that. But associating with him also helps us; we would benefit from the links to the army, which is the relevant institution for the next few crises approaching and a way to solidify our rule and gain more authority.
I would prefer to take either Khui or commander of Royal Guard as mentor; but anyone who trains martial will do. it is the most relevant stat as of now for us.

Lets leave the speculation till next update, where we hopefully meet him again.
 
Agreed. Things got acrimonious before, and we'll see what happens next so we don't need to agonize too much.
 
Nervos Belli said:
I don't think we have iron-working capabilities. Unless this world has copper meteor strikes, I don't think we can make anything more useful out of it than a paperweight.
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We do have magic, so maybe a magic forged weapon with our mother's help could do something? Magic forging might exist even if its not reproducible on a large scale.
 
Meteoric Iron was actually made into swords and was extremely valuable in the bronze age, but it's not like, some sort of super weapon or something. It's just iron.

In general though it'd be better to make some kind of like, scepter or something out of it. Bronze was usually not good for swords; you have a number of bronze swords, but though I'm not metallurgy expert bronze tends to get brittle when forged into thin swordpoints.
 
Cetashwayo said:
Meteoric Iron was actually made into swords and was extremely valuable in the bronze age, but it's not like, some sort of super weapon or something. It's just iron.
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It won't be magical, but it is rare enough to give the impression of power and all, I think. Also, a ceremonial sword would be cool, and iron is better than bronze for weapons to the best of my knowledge.

Cetashwayo said:
In general though it'd be better to make some kind of like, scepter or something out of it. Bronze was usually not good for swords; you have a number of bronze swords, but though I'm not metallurgy expert bronze tends to get brittle when forged into thin swordpoints.
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We can use meteoric iron to make a good sword that will last for some generations and be a family heirloom or something and use our dads scepter for the bling and traditional effect.
 
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It really depends. There isn't much appreciable difference between an iron and a bronze spear; what makes iron easier is that you don't need to import valuable copper/tin so much, which was a big hindrance during the bronze age. It's easier to make once you have the temperature control down.
 
I'm not too attached to it; it would be a cool heirloom object if we could squeeze it in is all. Iconic and stuff. Legacy building. I mean, what else are we going to do with the rock? Let it sit around in our treasury?
 
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