Best Game Ever | Dudley Quest [HP/The Gamer]

Doesn't need to be the jump to homicide to be a massive problem - deciding to set someone's feet/hair on fire (just using fire because it's an easy example, common magic staple and all that, not because , there are any of a million and one ways to nonfatally, but still hugely problematically childishly use overt magic. Heck, that's a big part of the MoM's concern - it's not like they're only worried about magical kids accidentally murdering people with magic.

And that level of ne'erdowellness, the amount sufficient to just do arbitrary selfishness and cruelty as assisted by magic?

That, canon dudley absolutely has - and regardless of how you feel about the quest setting letting us deviate from that canon baseline, the fact remains we haven't had much in story time to effect that change.

You know, you're usually pretty good at identifying dissenting stances and carrying through with debating them rather than pointlessly fixating on one possible extreme; is there a reason you stuck so hard on murder, and made no mention of.... any other outcome from magic?

It's not like 'set a guy on fire' is exclusively a homicidal act, if'n you want to say you got on that track from how I phrased things...



Also seperate point - at any point has there been a reason presented for Harry's generally less... meek's part of it, but just the way's he's a bit different in a way that could be considered irritating from a Dudley worldview? The extra smiles that sometimes sure do seem easily taken as mocking/taunting/competitive, the extra assertive dialogue, that sort of stuff. Is that just Dudley PoV repainting, or is there a conscious choice to have Harry act a bit differently - do we know?
Look, fire's a big deal. Do we see kids running around with lighters and scorching people with them, or burning down people's houses, just because they play D&D? No. Kids, even bullies, know that burning people is a bad thing. Please stop assuming that the actions of the few people who are both psychopaths and play D&D are representative of the majority of gamers who happen to be huge jerks.
 
You know, you're usually pretty good at identifying dissenting stances and carrying through with debating them rather than pointlessly fixating on one possible extreme; is there a reason you stuck so hard on murder, and made no mention of.... any other outcome from magic?

It's not like 'set a guy on fire' is exclusively a homicidal act, if'n you want to say you got on that track from how I phrased things...
Dudley learning most anything from the 'go steal, pillage and kill and you'll be rewarded' mentality and skillset of DnD is far, far worse than anything theft related.

He's at an influencable age, he doesn't have much common sense, and seeing what the book says 'proven' by how he can actually do it is a very worrying recipe, for his ideological and moral development. He did invent Harry chasing well before now, so we know he's not exactly a fundamentally 'good' kid at his current age. Heck, he has no problem learning about stealing, what with how the vote options were presented.

'I got in trouble for stealing something' is way, way less of an issue than 'I got caught setting people on fire', even if it's less likely - just like the low chance of murder is generally treated as a bigger issue than a medium to high chance of getting violently (but nonfatally) mugged.

I'd read this bit as being pretty murder-themed - given that killing was mentioned specifically in the first paragraph, and murder in the last. Looking back at the discussion, though, I admit I got tunnel vision on it. I'll accept that that was a misread on my part. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Given all that, my best current understanding of your thesis is something like "D&D is reasonably likely to unlock vulgar magical powers of some sort. It is also reasonably likely to push him, morally, to the dark side. Combining those two, there is a danger that he'll start with vicious, magic-driven pranks, and that could get us into serious trouble."

I don't expect D&D to unlock magical powers. Direct "throw a fireball" powers don't seem all that in-character for Dudley, and also don't appear to be what the voting public wants. Also, I've no particular reason to believe that D&D *can* unlock powers in this universe.

I don't think that D&D has a terribly corrosive effect on morality. Have you any actual evidence that D&D has ever been a source of moral decay for anyone who wasn't already deeply disturbed? I'm willing to reassess this portion of my understanding of reality, but it would take at least moderate amounts of evidence.

Finally, the core of my point stands. Dudley is not a complex psychological simulator. Dudley is a character who obeys the voting public. If we start voting to magically prank people in vicious ways, then yes, I'll freely admit that that's a dangerous activity (and one I personally would prefer to avoid for a number of reasons). It would have to be something we voted on, however - and playing D&D doesn't seem to me to make it any more likely that that's actually going to happen.
 
Look, fire's a big deal. Do we see kids running around with lighters and scorching people with them, or burning down people's houses, just because they play D&D? No. Kids, even bullies, know that burning people is a bad thing. Please stop assuming that the actions of the few people who are both psychopaths and play D&D are representative of the majority of gamers who happen to be huge jerks.
I don't think you understand how fun fire can be to kids - or how dismissive of dangers one can get, when the dangers don't apply to them.

And again - fire is just an easy example of blatant magic; don't focus on it exclusively. The overall point is that magic has a myriad of heavily, visibly supernatural options to it's name in DnD, and many of those options could be disastrous if childishly exercised.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
Any time.
Given all that, my best current understanding of your thesis is something like "D&D is reasonably likely to unlock vulgar magical powers of some sort. It is also reasonably likely to push him, morally, to the dark side. Combining those two, there is a danger that he'll start with vicious, magic-driven pranks, and that could get us into serious trouble."
Much closer, but still not right there - it's more that I feel that DnD-derived Gamer skills, generally speaking, are such a wide metaphorical toolbelt that, even if generally the tools are safe, labelled and won't get misused, the sheer number of options increases the chances of misuse anyway.
I don't expect D&D to unlock magical powers. Direct "throw a fireball" powers don't seem all that in-character for Dudley, and also don't appear to be what the voting public wants. Also, I've no particular reason to believe that D&D *can* unlock powers in this universe.
Well, fair enough on that - me, I see 'kid who generally has a normalish view of what's cool relative to his age' and 'the chance he might be able to throw fireballs or fly or whatever', and I just assume that if he can get magic, then he will.

And he will go flashy.

Guess we'll see how the collective setting of HP, Gamer and (to some degree, albeit a meta one since it's just that the books exist so far) DnD works out in that regard - still, if the DnD route does allow Dudley to pick up magic, do you at least agree that there are a myriad of ways a child like he could horribly misuse those powers?
I don't think that D&D has a terribly corrosive effect on morality. Have you any actual evidence that D&D has ever been a source of moral decay for anyone who wasn't already deeply disturbed?
I'm not saying that DnD is morally corruptive; I'm saying that the potential power that Gamer could derive from DnD is corruptive, in the same way that any power that would allow one to dominate others and force their will is corruptive, since DnD has a wealth of in-game ways to do exactly that.
I'm willing to reassess this portion of my understanding of reality, but it would take at least moderate amounts of evidence.
Nope - just again, stepping back from the example originally cited, to see the greater potential issue being referenced through the example.
Dudley is a character who obeys the voting public. If we start voting to magically prank people in vicious ways, then yes, I'll freely admit that that's a dangerous activity (and one I personally would prefer to avoid for a number of reasons). It would have to be something we voted on, however - and playing D&D doesn't seem to me to make it any more likely that that's actually going to happen.
If it does indeed play out that our voting influence is that great, then yes; absolutely you're right and the risk I foresee is far less than I'm portraying.

...That said, if that is true then it's a moot point for me regardless - I'd be leaving the quest. I've never cared for quests that take a canon character, and allow voting to make them INO. Personal preference thing, really.
 
Sorry all, I've been busy preparing to move from my apartment into the dorms at Uni, so I've been highly preoccupied these last few days, only able to catch internet time in snippets and tidbits.

We're probably also not going to have internet at all for the last couple days of this next week, so that's a thing.

Should probably be able to get one or two updates done, but can't guarantee when.
 
I'd read this bit as being pretty murder-themed - given that killing was mentioned specifically in the first paragraph, and murder in the last. Looking back at the discussion, though, I admit I got tunnel vision on it. I'll accept that that was a misread on my part. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Given all that, my best current understanding of your thesis is something like "D&D is reasonably likely to unlock vulgar magical powers of some sort. It is also reasonably likely to push him, morally, to the dark side. Combining those two, there is a danger that he'll start with vicious, magic-driven pranks, and that could get us into serious trouble."

I don't expect D&D to unlock magical powers. Direct "throw a fireball" powers don't seem all that in-character for Dudley, and also don't appear to be what the voting public wants. Also, I've no particular reason to believe that D&D *can* unlock powers in this universe.

I don't think that D&D has a terribly corrosive effect on morality. Have you any actual evidence that D&D has ever been a source of moral decay for anyone who wasn't already deeply disturbed? I'm willing to reassess this portion of my understanding of reality, but it would take at least moderate amounts of evidence.

Finally, the core of my point stands. Dudley is not a complex psychological simulator. Dudley is a character who obeys the voting public. If we start voting to magically prank people in vicious ways, then yes, I'll freely admit that that's a dangerous activity (and one I personally would prefer to avoid for a number of reasons). It would have to be something we voted on, however - and playing D&D doesn't seem to me to make it any more likely that that's actually going to happen.
While I disagree with Bob's Beard, it should be noted that Dudley doesn't really have much in the way of morals to begin with.
 
What's with this idea that D&D = Magic? A character in a game we're playing using imaginary magic shouldn't logically give us any real magic power. IMO the reason the QM has these D&D options keep popping up is because it's one of the best ways for Dudley to learn about our powers. That's it.
 
Much closer, but still not right there - it's more that I feel that DnD-derived Gamer skills, generally speaking, are such a wide metaphorical toolbelt that, even if generally the tools are safe, labelled and won't get misused, the sheer number of options increases the chances of misuse anyway.

Well, fair enough on that - me, I see 'kid who generally has a normalish view of what's cool relative to his age' and 'the chance he might be able to throw fireballs or fly or whatever', and I just assume that if he can get magic, then he will.

And he will go flashy.

Guess we'll see how the collective setting of HP, Gamer and (to some degree, albeit a meta one since it's just that the books exist so far) DnD works out in that regard - still, if the DnD route does allow Dudley to pick up magic, do you at least agree that there are a myriad of ways a child like he could horribly misuse those powers?

I'll totally grant that "gain a bunch of OOCP powers as compared to everyone around you" is the sort of thing that can be very tempting to kids (and, indeed, to adults). On the other hand, Dudley already has that. The augments that one gets for being The Gamer are enormously powerful and varied. I don't thing that D&D specifically is going to give levels of power not available in other ways. Jee Han developed massive magical abilities - but that's because he pushed Int to the exclusion of all else. Other stats give other superpowers.

Also, Dudley has been brought up his entirely life to think that magic powers are freaky and bad and low-class... the sort of thing that you despise someone for. I don't think he has the same prediliction for going magic+flashy as many kids would. Also worth noting that not everyone who plays D&D chooses to play a magic-user.

Still, it's true, if he somehow gets a lot of flashy powers out of this, and starts using them, it does make it significantly more likely that he'll get caught. I can also see why you might think that D&D would lead to flashy magical powers, though I myself do not expect it to.

I'm not saying that DnD is morally corruptive; I'm saying that the potential power that Gamer could derive from DnD is corruptive, in the same way that any power that would allow one to dominate others and force their will is corruptive, since DnD has a wealth of in-game ways to do exactly that.

I'd say he already *has* that level of power (though it may take a little while to fully bloom). Weren't we just talking about how the ability to exploit the inventory makes it a lot easier to go shoplifting?

If it does indeed play out that our voting influence is that great, then yes; absolutely you're right and the risk I foresee is far less than I'm portraying.

...That said, if that is true then it's a moot point for me regardless - I'd be leaving the quest. I've never cared for quests that take a canon character, and allow voting to make them INO. Personal preference thing, really.

By my current read of this quest...
- We're not going to be forced into anything. If the voting public as a whole never votes to go pranking people with fireballs, we aren't going to go pranking people with fireballs. That in and of itself should be enough to provide protection from most of your concerns (unless you think that the voting public is going to *want* to prank people with fireballs - and if they're voting to do that, I'll be arguing against it along with you).
- Being The Gamer is already a *major* psychological change for Dudley. Gamer's Mind, plus massively increased int and wis will do that, even before we get to the instant learning from books and the change that just being that much more powerful and competent will bring.
- I believe by the structure of the quest, the voters *could* make Dudley INO pretty quickly, and there are a numebr of white knights that want to - but there are also a decent number of us who are resisting that (see the calm, reasoned, thoughtful headbutt update). You are absolutely welcome in our merry crew.
 
What's with this idea that D&D = Magic? A character in a game we're playing using imaginary magic shouldn't logically give us any real magic power. IMO the reason the QM has these D&D options keep popping up is because it's one of the best ways for Dudley to learn about our powers. That's it.

Yeah. Considering that the cRPG/MMORPG character formula originates from D&D.

Though that is something to consider. The Gamer was made in modern times. RPGs in this timeline have only barely took off, and The Gamer probably has abilities not represented in games of the early 90s.
 
A lot of you guys are making one big mistake:

We don't know what kind of crossover this is. For all we know, Hogwarts could be the school of Ability Users.
Hogwarts, the school for extraordinary children. Guest classes this year by a Muggle Doctor named Charles Xavier.

OoooOoo. X-Men is a book for Dudley to read! Well Comic. Trade-Novel. Novelization! Whatever works! Dudley the Phoenix Force User. Cue end of the World.
 
Still doesn't work like that. Reading comics to get mutant powers or phoenix force is just as nonsensical as expecting to learn magic from playing D&D. We could try replicating powers we read about in fiction but we're not going to gain any of the powers just by reading it. Unless of course the comic happens to be completely accurate on how to do something and becomes a skill book.
 
Hogwarts, the school for extraordinary children. Guest classes this year by a Muggle Doctor named Charles Xavier.

OoooOoo. X-Men is a book for Dudley to read! Well Comic. Trade-Novel. Novelization! Whatever works! Dudley the Phoenix Force User. Cue end of the World.
Unless this Quest has a mechanic like in Halpo133's Harry Potter/The Gamer quest that explicitly allows fictional skills to be gained from fiction books, Dudley ain't getting mutant powers from reading a comic book.
 
Remember, guys, Kars can't absorb alien powers - oh, wait, wrong thread.

Remember, guys, the Gamer can't gain fictional powers in the source material. There, "skill books" are literally books detailing how to use various skills or spells.
 
Unless this Quest has a mechanic like in Halpo133's Harry Potter/The Gamer quest that explicitly allows fictional skills to be gained from fiction books, Dudley ain't getting mutant powers from reading a comic book.
I keep getting them all confused which story I'm in that does or doesn't do that heh.
 
Doesn't exactly help that a lot of Gamer Crossover quests include something like that. I'm not sure why, either. With a little time and creativity, the original Gamer Powers are pretty broken.
I figure it's the same type of logic that authors use to come to the conclusion that "if one cross-over is cool, a mega-crossover is going to be mega-cool" when 95+% of the time it turns out just to be stupid since they end up throwing random characters and elements in with no apparent attempt at logical consistency or good taste.
 
Do you think we'd be able to learn magic via a spellbook, since it may count as a skillbook? Or would we not meet the prerequisites if we're a muggle? I know in the manwha the protagonist was able to learn some magic martial arts that way
 
Do you think we'd be able to learn magic via a spellbook, since it may count as a skillbook? Or would we not meet the prerequisites if we're a muggle? I know in the manwha the protagonist was able to learn some magic martial arts that way
we have mana , Harry has mana , we haven't seen anyone else who had mana
thus chances are not only can we learn magic but we may be getting a Hogwarts Letter
 
^What he said. If we have magic then we're not a muggle. Chances are that since the MP bar is there for beings without any MP then it's the standard energy used for our skills and we have magic.


On another note why isn't there any benefits under the boxing skill?
 
Elephant had ludicrous mana. I think it just translates into mental willpower.
Elephant had a 100 mana and 5000 hp at level 30 ,and was the one exception , for all we know suficiently old elephants are technicaly slyght magical animals, we simple don't have the sample size to say otherwise , but i can say that mana isn't simple willpower , otherwise every other person we meet would have been an spineless automaton
 
Elephant had a 100 mana and 5000 hp at level 30 ,and was the one exception , for all we know suficiently old elephants are technicaly slyght magical animals, we simple don't have the sample size to say otherwise , but i can say that mana isn't simple willpower , otherwise every other person we meet would have been an spineless automaton
No, everybody has minimum mana. Harry and the elephant are just noted as having abnormal amounts of the stuff. And I meant excess willpower, not really the stuff needed to be a sapient being. Think the difference between our hp (0 means critical existence failure) to a Pokémon's hp (0 means unconscious).
 
No, everybody has minimum mana. Harry and the elephant are just noted as having abnormal amounts of the stuff. And I meant excess willpower, not really the stuff needed to be a sapient being. Think the difference between our hp (0 means critical existence failure) to a Pokémon's hp (0 means unconscious).
you seen to be mistaking something, we , harry and the elephant are the only ones with any mana , everyone else was showed to have 0/0 mana
 
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