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Behind the Serpent Throne (CK2)

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[X] The son of a minor scholar of great distinction who passed the difficult exams of Highest Merit, his penmanship was always flawless. He wrote with distinction on all of the topics of the world, and if that is all Father had done, then perhaps the world would be a different place. But he entered into the bureaucracy in his twenties like a knife through a dying man, and when he ousted the Third River school, publically humiliating their policy and leading to the suicide of Go-Asho, he was on his way up. The master of these strange rituals, his penmanship is as perfect and cold as the northern frosts. Every inch of the realm is encompassed in his words, every goat counted. Everyone knows that there is nothing that does not fall under his sway, and yet the army chafes at his actions. For all know that he resents those who go to war. "It is the silver gong for a reason, and not the gold" went one of his most famous axioms. Under him the realm has turned inward, and he has polished it as a collector might polish an antique sword, or as his father's father might have polished his words until there was nothing spare.

[X] Imperial Province (Irit): The land of rivers and of the lake from which the first Emperor was said to have emerged ten-thousand years ago. If one believes the imperial myths and ignores all of the problems with the myths, the Empire has existed for that long, a chain unbroken truly, or at most only in letter but not in spirit. She was a shrine priestess on the holy island in the center of that holiest of lakes, and yet pregnancy is the one thing they could not accept, and far she fled, taking the teachings and secrets with her.
 
[X] Imperial Province (Yeadalt): The strangest of all of the provinces, home to the greatest number of non-official languages and even cultural groups, it is here that heresies and cults form like mushrooms. They form, they spread, they are harvested or destroyed. It is a province in which the ruling elite, of the Csiritan stock, is far outnumbered by those whose ways are not those of the empire. It is also home to some of the strangest tales, the strangest ways to do magic and live, in all of the twelve provinces, or so rumor goes. Besides the cults, the religions, and the many peoples, here flourish too criminal groups, who band together against all outsiders and cause banditry and chaos.

[X] A monster is what he is. He had started out a student of the imperial academy, where the spirits were bound and the secret names of the world were compiled, strengthened. Learned. At the age of thirteen he had murdered a city of fifty-thousand people by doing the impossible. Even rumor only hints at how, but the plague that struck down the city at just the right time, and the credit that Father took for it, was but the beginning of a reputation of blood and mystical might that stretched beyond the borders of knowledge into legend. Even the priests hate him, and yet the Empire has grown strong under his rule, despite his apathy for the systems that are said to keep it going. The Emperor walks every day in fear of the man, and even as old as he is, none dare cross him. But then again, none dare love him either.
 
[X] Imperial Province (Yeadalt): The strangest of all of the provinces, home to the greatest number of non-official languages and even cultural groups, it is here that heresies and cults form like mushrooms. They form, they spread, they are harvested or destroyed. It is a province in which the ruling elite, of the Csiritan stock, is far outnumbered by those whose ways are not those of the empire. It is also home to some of the strangest tales, the strangest ways to do magic and live, in all of the twelve provinces, or so rumor goes. Besides the cults, the religions, and the many peoples, here flourish too criminal groups, who band together against all outsiders and cause banditry and chaos.

[X] A monster is what he is. He had started out a student of the imperial academy, where the spirits were bound and the secret names of the world were compiled, strengthened. Learned. At the age of thirteen he had murdered a city of fifty-thousand people by doing the impossible. Even rumor only hints at how, but the plague that struck down the city at just the right time, and the credit that Father took for it, was but the beginning of a reputation of blood and mystical might that stretched beyond the borders of knowledge into legend. Even the priests hate him, and yet the Empire has grown strong under his rule, despite his apathy for the systems that are said to keep it going. The Emperor walks every day in fear of the man, and even as old as he is, none dare cross him. But then again, none dare love him either.
 
Nope, the vote isn't closed yet, just trying to see where it is.

I'll post the rest when I can, for the Mother stuff, since it's apparently close.

Edit: Interesting, it seems that it's closer than what I thought it'd be at first. Knife's edge, in fact.
 
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Other facts:

Age of the Emperor (and thus who the Emperor is, because there are twists and turns in history) depends on who Father is.

Conqueror: A comfortable middle-aged man with four sons, a number of daughters, soft and yielding, it is said, to the whims of Father.
Master of Shadows: The same person as when Father started, and the same man that in another world had a relationship with the Master of None, then died at a healthy old age instead of lingering and lingering and lingering and rotting on the throne endlessly and endlessly more. He's ancient, and has seven or eight kids and a dozen grandkids all eyeing the throne.
Monster: Early teens, a terrified young man who is, like, 99% sure that the Monster is an immortal monster who eats children.
Master of All/None: A spirited, head-strong twenty-something.
Scholar: A young boy. The Scholar is/has control over the boy's official tutors, and is said to be rather strict in trying to teach the Emperor.
 
Broken25 said:
This sounds hilarious.
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I have plans for all of them.

Strict Tutor Scholar Father, for instance, would be pretty amusing and fits his profile to a tee.

Conqueror Father getting annoyed at how trivial and how much of a push-over the Emperor is, even as he benefits from it. Really, does the man have to show off every one of his kids and grandkids and nieces and nephews?

Master of None/All: It's a septuagenarian trying to (and succeeding after his fashion) control and manage a head-strong young twenty-something. It writes itself.

Master of Shadows: Okay, this one is less funny than sad, and is more the Father playing Wormtongue/Varys/etc to a powerless senile Emperor while playing his sons and grandsons and great-grandsons against each other.

Monster: Well, see above. Though hilarious would have to war with deeply depressing and horrible, honestly.
 
Come on guys, the monster has the best chance for us to befriend the young impressionable emperor!
 
Gamerlord said:
Come on guys, the monster has the best chance for us to befriend the young impressionable emperor!
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To be fair, Scholar has an even younger Emperor.

...it does seem like it's down to the two of them, though!

Not what I expected, actually.[1]

[1] Not in a bad way, but was surprised Conqueror didn't get more traction, and early on I expected it to be down between Master of All/None and Monster.
 
How large is the Empire in terms of both land and operation? How large is it compared to its neighbours?

Does the Father have a name?

What does the average person know of Father for Monster and Scholar?

Is there Slavery?
 
Estro said:
How large is the Empire in terms of both land and operation? How large is it compared to its neighbours?

Does the Father have a name?

What does the average person know of Father for Monster and Scholar?

Is there Slavery?
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Well, one thing to note is that just like ancient China, there's a hell of a lot of difficulty governing it, hence all of the hereditary governors and the bureaucracy and the civil servants that often tend to be local elites, but it's somewhere between Han and Qing China in size...though it has expanded and contracted in a similar sort of way. At its height it's been as many as ten million square miles, and it's been as small as four-million (not counting eras of division and warring states). Conqueror, uh, obviously has the largest of the land-masses.

For Scholar, it's a little shy of seven-million square miles of total land area in theory under the Emperor's control, for Monster it's a little over seven-million.

For Scholar, depending on who you define as 'part of the population' it has just north of one hundred and five million subjects. For Monster, somewhat south of a hundred million, owing to some famines and other problems in the middle years of the Monster's reign.

So yeah, a really fucking lot of people.

He does, but I haven't thought of it yet. :p

There are enough people that it's hard to tell what an 'average person' is. Like, do you mean 'average Csiritan?' Because then you'd have to deal with the fact that plenty of ethnic minorities might have...different viewpoints on different Fathers.

And yes, there is, though it's not a central form of economic exploitation. That is to say, peasants still do most of the agricultural labor, but there are slaves out there, as well as persons owned by the state, which in some ways amounts to the same thing.

*****
I haven't done a comparison with other neighbors, but as you might guess, Csirit when it is all moving in the same direction is a juggernaut larger than all of the immediate surrounding states combined.
 
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The Laurent said:
There are enough people that it's hard to tell what an 'average person' is. Like, do you mean 'average Csiritan?' Because then you'd have to deal with the fact that plenty of ethnic minorities might have...different viewpoints on different Fathers.
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I think he means when other people think of stereotypical Csiritan, what do they see?
 
Well, the average person of Csirit background knows that...okay, this is going to be hard to qualify, because being the power behind the throne means the average peasant might actually think the Emperor has something to do with this. But the Emperor is known even to the peasants as a pious traditionalist, who encourages policies of careful and exact (sometimes too exact for the liking of some peasants, of course) taxation and maintenance of roads. Among scholars he's known as a rigid stickler of the classics. Among merchants, he's known for at once encouraging some of their internal ventures, and yet discouraging foreign trade as leading to foreign thought which leads to foreign action, which leads to foreign (bad) results. Among foreigners or those whose beliefs are at large variance (so not the official religion or one of the accepted religions, or not of the official ethnic group), his reputation is a little more stained. He's also done a lot of work to reform the bureaucracy and make sure that as much as possible the Civil Service Exams properly represent some version of the truth, which has won him friends and enemies in equal measure. Very rigid sort of man, honestly, for all that his pen and words carry more than a little charm. Because remember, he's pretty charismatic in his own way, albeit not so much as the Master of None/All.

Monster, on the other hand, is known even to the peasants, who know that a towering dark figure rules the Court. They whisper myths and stories about him, and those that are employed by him. Some 'Fathers' are more public than others. Conqueror and Monster are both the ones *most likely* to have been heard of by the average peasant working in the field, albeit in very, very different ways. This fear comes along with more than a little resentment, as his policies are not so much strict as very harsh when it comes to peasants. Well, he's a harsh man in general, but opinion of him is a sort of bell-curve, honestly. Those at the lowest end fear and maybe even hate him because they have neither the power nor the interest to do anything against him. Those at the middle of the pack (such as many merchants) have benefitted from the strength and work he's done (because yes, he's done a lot in different ways), and so sometimes dismiss the stories or ignore any fear. Those at the top who have to, you know, meet the guy are sorta terrified of him because his personal power is *very* personal. Being in a room with him is dangerous because being in a room with him is dangerous.

Uh, does that help at all?
 
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The Laurent said:
Well, the average person of Csirit background knows that...okay, this is going to be hard to qualify, because being the power behind the throne means the average peasant might actually think the Emperor has something to do with this. But the Emperor is known even to the peasants as a pious traditionalist, who encourages policies of careful and exact (sometimes too exact for the liking of some peasants, of course) taxation and maintenance of roads. Among scholars he's known as a rigid stickler of the classics. Among merchants, he's known for at once encouraging some of their internal ventures, and yet discouraging foreign trade as leading to foreign thought which leads to foreign action, which leads to foreign (bad) results. Among foreigners or those whose beliefs are at large variance (so not the official religion or one of the accepted religions, or not of the official ethnic group), his reputation is a little more stained. He's also done a lot of work to reform the bureaucracy and make sure that as much as possible the Civil Service Exams properly represent some version of the truth, which has won him friends and enemies in equal measure. Very rigid sort of man, honestly, for all that his pen and words carry more than a little charm. Because remember, he's pretty charismatic in his own way, albeit not so much as the Master of None/All.

Monster, on the other hand, is known even to the peasants, who know that a towering dark figure rules the Court. They whisper myths and stories about him, and those that are employed by him. Some 'Fathers' are more public than others. Conqueror and Monster are both the ones *most likely* to have been heard of by the average peasant working in the field, albeit in very, very different ways. This fear comes along with more than a little resentment, as his policies are not so much strict as very harsh when it comes to peasants. Well, he's a harsh man in general, but opinion of him is a sort of bell-curve, honestly. Those at the lowest end fear and maybe even hate him because they have neither the power nor the interest to do anything against him. Those at the middle of the pack (such as many merchants) have benefitted from the strength and work he's done (because yes, he's done a lot in different ways), and so sometimes dismiss the stories or ignore any fear. Those at the top who have to, you know, meet the guy are sorta terrified of him because his personal power is *very* personal. Being in a room with him is dangerous because being in a room with him is dangerous.

Uh, does that help at all?
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Ahh, yes. Just what I wanted.

What are you using as a naming schema? Like, what is Csirit and Irit derived from (well, Csirit is obviously derived from irit, but that's beside the point).
 
Estro said:
Ahh, yes. Just what I wanted.

What are you using as a naming schema? Like, what is Csirit and Irit derived from (well, Csirit is obviously derived from irit, but that's beside the point).
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I'm not a language person, so I'm not necessarily doing anything all that clever. IE: I mostly made it up?

Csirit is, yes, derived from Irit. Cs in Old Iritaen (before it became Csiritan and all) is a prefix that means something like "Great, honored, etc, etc." So in a literal reading, the Csiritan Empire is the "Great Empire of Irit/The Irit".

...there's definitely a very ethnic component to the Empire, and the culture and language and everything else that they adopt as the 'standard.'

Not sure if that's what you were trying to get at, or not.
 
The Laurent said:
I'm not a language person, so I'm not necessarily doing anything all that clever. IE: I mostly made it up?

Csirit is, yes, derived from Irit. Cs in Old Iritaen (before it became Csiritan and all) is a prefix that means something like "Great, honored, etc, etc." So in a literal reading, the Csiritan Empire is the "Great Empire of Irit/The Irit".

...there's definitely a very ethnic component to the Empire, and the culture and language and everything else that they adopt as the 'standard.'

Not sure if that's what you were trying to get at, or not.
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I was just wondering if you were basing it off a particular language, or -as you are doing- making it up whole cloth.
 
What's the national make-up of the Empire? Who else is there, besides Csiritans?

Not going into minorities whose numbers are negligible, of course.
 
Estro said:
I was just wondering if you were basing it off a particular language, or -as you are doing- making it up whole cloth.
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I wish I had the skill to do conlang stuff like that easily. Or, you know, languages in general.

Though as worldbuilding, conlangs seem like a trap that you'd jump down into and often as not never leap out with a finished novel instead of a finished world. Tolkien being the very notable exception.
 
Nevill said:
What's the national make-up of the Empire? Who else is there, besides Csiritans?
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There's not really numbers, exactly. Like, percentages, but some other common elements are of course Southlanders in the southern parts of the Empire, having spilled over the border in invasion or trade or any number of ways. Similarly, the Bueli make up a somewhat large portion of the population of Hari-Bueli.

Yeadalt is home to about a dozen different ethnicities that most Csiritans can't really tell apart, but whom have been separate and distinct for quite a long time.

Meanwhile on the East Coast, the children of some of the Sea-Raiders (who also sometimes trade, but are mostly seen as a menace) constitute a small but not insignificant minority of the population, as does an even smaller minority that have interbred with the Water-People.

On top of that, the Csiritan's are the largest ethnic group, but they have divisions within them that due to their size and how spread out they are, mean that there are entire mutually unintellible but related languages that of course lead to similar and yet different cultures. The largest group of Csiritan's have dominated and created what the empire standard is, linguistically, and through Civil Service Exams and other methods, everyone (in the upper-classes/merchant classes/etc) has to be able to at least write in that form, and often speak as well.
 
The Laurent said:
I wish I had the skill to do conlang stuff like that easily. Or, you know, languages in general.

Though as worldbuilding, conlangs seem like a trap that you'd jump down into and often as not never leap out with a finished novel instead of a finished world. Tolkien being the very notable exception.
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Nah, I was just wondering if you were nicking , I dunno, Hungarian or Scottish words to use as the language base.

The problem is that making it up as you go along is a conlang, but in this case you aren't even attempting to be self consistent (not to disparage you, but I imagine you aren't considering how all those names related to each other).

Eh, it'll probably never matter. I just like to fuss over languages.
 
Estro said:
Nah, I was just wondering if you were nicking , I dunno, Hungarian or Scottish words to use as the language base.

The problem is that making it up as you go along is a conlang, but in this case you aren't even attempting to be self consistent (not to disparage you, but I imagine you aren't considering how all those names related to each other).

Eh, it'll probably never matter. I just like to fuss over languages.
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The thing is, I don't have the skill and understanding of languages to be particularly consistent or insightful with it even if I just, you know, didn't do this Quest for two or three months while doing random language things.

I lack a faculty for such things, so...
 
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Switching my vote as it looks like it's going to be between Scholar and Monster:

[X] A monster is what he is. He had started out a student of the imperial academy, where the spirits were bound and the secret names of the world were compiled, strengthened. Learned. At the age of thirteen he had murdered a city of fifty-thousand people by doing the impossible. Even rumor only hints at how, but the plague that struck down the city at just the right time, and the credit that Father took for it, was but the beginning of a reputation of blood and mystical might that stretched beyond the borders of knowledge into legend. Even the priests hate him, and yet the Empire has grown strong under his rule, despite his apathy for the systems that are said to keep it going. The Emperor walks every day in fear of the man, and even as old as he is, none dare cross him. But then again, none dare love him either.

[X] Imperial Province (Irit): The land of rivers and of the lake from which the first Emperor was said to have emerged ten-thousand years ago. If one believes the imperial myths and ignores all of the problems with the myths, the Empire has existed for that long, a chain unbroken truly, or at most only in letter but not in spirit. She was a shrine priestess on the holy island in the center of that holiest of lakes, and yet pregnancy is the one thing they could not accept, and far she fled, taking the teachings and secrets with her.
 
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