I'd forgotten she had that.
Is that why Ney showed up in a dress?
Ascensions and Transgressions: the Tales of Keris Dulmeadokht (Exalted game)
- Thread starter Aleph
- Start date
I'd forgotten she had that.
Is that why Ney showed up in a dress?
On the topic of Naruto references
Obviously a Miko who Naruto encounters on his own and convinces her in the end to face the yidak alongside him powering the Ghost Rasengan.
The twist is that she's actually a ghost and fades away after the big fight scene having lost her fetter with the yidaks destruction.
Cue Naruto getting freaked out by his canon fear of ghosts
Obviously a Miko who Naruto encounters on his own and convinces her in the end to face the yidak alongside him powering the Ghost Rasengan.
The twist is that she's actually a ghost and fades away after the big fight scene having lost her fetter with the yidaks destruction.
Cue Naruto getting freaked out by his canon fear of ghosts
One thing that Keris hasn't discovered yet, but probably will at some point soonish, is that Malra is not a classic "circle". There are two Solars who are right at the core, and then they've gone out and scouted all kinds of talent. Not just Solar talent too - Dragonblooded, god-bloods, even thaumaturges.
Ney's part of the scouted talent, a Solar from the Malran-Harbourhead border regions who got picked up and they were like "hey, you're really good at command, want to be our general?" and he was like "that sounds like a lot of effort" and so he instead ended up in charge of spec ops-y kind of things, building up the scouting practices of the border tribes into being ninjas with lots of funding and stuff.
Ah, nothing so complicated, I'm afraid.
Kerisa is just insane in a more socially acceptable way than Maryam.
Kerisa is mad in the way you have to be to spend 700+ years waiting for your parents to come back because they promised, even after the other ghosts in the area have given up and passed to Lethe. And she's going to wait until she finds her parents, but as it stands she has absolutely no idea where they are so the fact that she's hanging around with Keris and getting to see new places where she can look for them (and also getting to meet new people and play with Rounen, which is also a big deal because she's been lonely since everyone else passed on). So whenever they stop somewhere for the night, she's been going out looking for them and probably quite a few locals have seen a creepy masked girl in an ancient dress appear and ask them "Are you my mummy?" and then vanish when they say "No", but she's not actively malicious and what she's doing right now is furthering her obsession so she's just... sort of sad and makes Keris want to hug her.
By contrast, Maryam is both mad, and very, very mad. She's angry. She's not a sad passive ghost waiting endlessly for someone to return for her. She knows there are people out there who killed her, and she's expanding her circle of blame to include anyone peripherally related. And this is a common trait for murder victims, which is why the ghosts of murdered people tend to be very spiteful and malevolent. Because being murdered means the person is dying with a toxic brew of hate, anger, fear and other things that makes not very nice ghosts.
If Kerisa had been murdered by someone rather than being killed by a fae monster while she was hiding in a cellar, she'd be rather more Alma than Casper.
(Of course, related to that is the fact that Kerisa was an astonishingly high Willpower, Conviction and Temperance which means she's willing to spend eternity waiting for someone to fulfil a promise, while Maryam was a rash hothead in life so isn't prepared to wait).
Well, let's be honest here. Dulmea got a front seat view to how bullshit Solar Investigation is, and also got a front seat view to the fact that he thinks he can take Keris and while Keris doesn't think she'd lose, she's not 100% sure. And he's fast enough to catch her.
Even if Keris hadn't already partially compromised Dulmea, Dulmea as a former assassin is fully aware that once Keris entered his awareness range, he was going to be a problem. The fact that she's making him doubt himself and hasn't corrected his assumption that "Some of the Solars were corrupted by Hell before the Usurpation and now they have demon powers" is about the best she can do.
... plus, Dulmea doesn't want Keris to be facing angry Unquestionable because of letting things slip, because that's likely to end in her either going fully rogue, or her murdering at least one Unquestionable and then getting caught and dying. Neither of these are things Dulmea wants.
Keris: "This is why I prefer girls! Boys are way more complicated! They're so emotional and prone to drama and bullshit!"
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Do note that "Keris just gets fiat executed" is not an option she considers - and this is a demon who is terrified of the power of the Unquestionable and understands better than the average serf how implacable they are. Dulmea knows how deadly Keris is, and how much she holds back to avoid revealing her full capabilities. She knows that if the Reclamation becomes aggressive towards her charge and Keris doesn't just flee, at least one Third Circle is going to die. Possibly more.
Keris: "Okay. Who's first?"
Rathan: "Ululaya!"
Keris: "Who's second?"
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
Eko: *nominates the Csend*
Keris: "Come up with a plan that might actually work and I'll consider it. Any other suggestions?"
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Honestly? Legit highly plausible. Orabilis is one of the prime candidates to provoke such a fight, by a) having the focus to sniff out Keris's wrongdoings and b) having the temperament to immediately then try to lay his hands on her and cast her into the sky. Which would mean he'd be at point blank range when she went murdersnek out of rage/fear/spite, and be taken completely and utterly by surprise with the full force of a combat-optimised E9 Solaroid.
Orabilis is an investigator and a censor. He is not a dedicated fighter. And in that situation, he would be the first Unquestionable Keris targeted, and thus the only one she fought who would have absolutely zero warning that she was being aggressive towards her masters - anyone she went on to kill would at least have been alerted by the anima flare and collateral damage and so on, but he'd have nothing. There's a decent chance he wouldn't have seriously considered the possibility that she would or even could fight back, let alone with lethal intent and capability.
So yeah. Reasonably high chance that Orabilis would be one of the ones to die if the Reclamation ever discovered Keris's sins and turned on her, just from being one of the most likely to be at the front of the queue to punish her.
Dynamesmouse
Bzzzzzz
Cecelyne's fetich, the inverted Madoka (she has a bow that turns people into monsters, and is infinitely cynical. Come on ES you're not even trying anymore), doesn't like the Infernal Exalted because they open up Creation to the Yozis. In the few short years since the Infernal host has been a thing, they've undone centuries of work. She's Cecelyne's heart, and her deepest wish is to bury and lord over the other Yozis. She seems like an excellent person to make a deal with, especially if you have a plan to get Lilunu and the Infernal Host out of Hell and the Yozi's influence. She's even stated to be unbeatable so long as she stands on Cecelyne.
The only small problem is that any deal you make with her is binding like the Eclipse Oath. And only for you, not for her.
The only small problem is that any deal you make with her is binding like the Eclipse Oath. And only for you, not for her.
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
So the next fun questions would be 1) at what point would she be able to get away with killing Orabilis and 2) would he realize that point had been reached before trying something? It doesn't help his situation that he doesn't have the relative job security of being a fetich and that as Hell's head of the secret police (one of them, anyway) he probably isn't hugely popular with the other Unquestionable.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
... Yeah, Adorjan would probably take that as the perfect time to carry out the backstab on the Reclamation, wouldn't she?
And the fact that one of Keris' Charms makes her surroundings silent means that Adorjan has somewhere real nice to visit, and wouldn't you know? It's right at the centre of that disaster-in-progress to allow her a wonderful chance to 'help'...
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Nah, this would be a reactive attack in response to him trying to kill her. Her cowardice means she's unlikely to ever go after an Unquestionable with intent to permakill unless provoked. Keris doesn't make threats or start fights that she's not pretty sure she can win, and permakilling Third Circles after initiating hostilities of your own accord is the sort of thing that threatens and starts a fight with the united host of the Unquestionable.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
You know, this probably makes things scarier... for the 3CDs at least. Because it means that Keris is just going to wait, and wait, and wait all the while appearing to be a good... ish Infernal supporting the Reclamation and getting stronger.
And then she either pulls off something like 'curing' Lilunu's 2CDs or is discovered to have knowledge she shouldn't, or the many other reasons the 3CDs would like her dead. At which point she makes the break with the Yozi, and goes her own way, if she survives/escapes/causes too much damage for them to handle right then and they retreat to regroup and take her down. And as I said, she's going to have gotten even stronger in the mean time. And you've already said that if Keris ends up fighting the Reclamation, then there's probably going to be at least one, maybe even two Third Circles perma-killed if it happened right now. I suspect the casualty numbers are only going to get worse for them as time passes. Especially if Keris' children manage to reach the 3CD level.
Well, that really changes the strategic calculus. A nation state with a nuclear bomb it shouldn't have is a rogue dangerous threat that needs to be contained and taken down - or at least made to give up its nuclear weapons. A nation state with a whole arsenal of ICBMs it shouldn't have is a respected part of the international community with a seat at the UNSC.
At the point when Keris can show up as an Enlightenment 10 being with six demon prince souls flanking her - and forty two demon lords - she's transitioned to the latter position. The concentration of force that Keris in particular can bring due to the hilarious amounts of effort she'll have invested over the years into her own psychological stability and making her souls get along and able to cooperate is Yozi soul hierarchy-tier, because though she might have fewer souls they cooperate in a way that most demon princes don't.
If Cecelyne's fetich demands Keris submit to her laws and Keris says "No" and points to her souls and smirks as she says she has six Unquestionable backing her up... well, that's not Keris' problem anymore.
(Especially if her attitude gets Vali, Eko and Calesco's hackles up and they decide that they need to start murdering Priests of Cecelyne until she backs down)
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
Yeah, haven't read the books and don't own them to do it right now anyway, but from what I've picked up most 3CD from their own patron Yozi don't exactly co-operate on anything unless it's literally life or death for all of them/most of them. And even then they don't always. Let alone if it's two or more 3CDs from different patron Yozi.
Whereas Keris... her soul hierarchy... Well, whilst at times they may have each other it's very much a case of 'what happens in the family stays in the family. And if outsiders try to get involved, or hurt one of the family, the whole family comes down on them'. So uh... Yeah. I can just see the following happening:
One Yozi's 3CDs have decided Keris and her 'family' need to go. It's gotten to the point they'll even team up and work together without actually backstabbing anyone... until she's about to be killed at least. Though setting up a rival to be more weakened than you is fair game. They've even got a bit of support from other 3CDs by calling in favours and the like.
Cue them attacking Keris/one of her children. I highly doubt that they'll be able to fully isolate one, or at least kill them before reinforcements arrive. What follows is well... You've described Keris and her family annoyed at someone enough to all gang up on them as a wolf pack. In this case the 3CDs would be a herd of elk. Dangerous if they catch you on their horns, but if you do things well you can easily split one off from the herd and bring it down. And then repeat that feat. And repeat it again... and again.
... And at that point the other 3CDs might be getting a bit nervous, and what happens next really depends on if they basically throw the attacking Yozi's 3CDs to their deaths or back them up. One ends up with a Yozi dead/mostly dead/extremely crippled forever and a lot of 3CDs nervously stepping around Keris and her family who now have really high position in Hell. The other probably means there's still some of that Yozi's 3CDs around, though probably a few 3CDs from the other Yozi have died. And all the 3CDs involved are really, really nervous and getting paranoid about their security. Because if they'd caught alone against Keris and her family... they are so dead.
Of course, all this requires them being dumb enough to try it in the first place. And surely there aren't enough 3CDs that dumb (without advisors/friends to give them advice) to cause it to happen, right? ... Right? Oh who am I kidding, something like this is bound to happen eventually.
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.... really the only way to make things worse for the Unquestionable is for Adorjan to show up, hand Keris a knife and point out victims
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
Ah, there seems to have been a misunderstanding. What I mean is that eventually there would be a point at which the reaction of the other Unquestionable to Orabilis trying to kill Keris and being killed by her instead would shift from "she's rebelling, kill her before she kills us" to "play stupid games, win stupid prizes," the latter being the same way they'd react if Orabilis had tried to kill a combat focused 3CD and was obliterated for his presumption. Orabilis not ending up dead at Keris' hands would depend on him realizing that if he starts something with Keris and fails the other Unquestionable won't save him and won't avenge him.
Of course, he might still be boned in the end anyway, depending on what the rules are about the Unquestionable going to war with each other, because once Calesco reaches full strength as a 3CD with her own soul hierarchy I think she'll try to kill him if she can do so without Keris herself being held responsible.
So, in other words, Keris is en route to overcoming her bonds to Hell through the power of Love?
Session 105
- Location
- The sixth circle of Hell (second on weekends)
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Aaaand Part 105 rolls in, with some cathartic talking to Calesco and perhaps the most EXTRA sorceress yet to be seen in-game. This is our first look at the mysterious Malek Qaja, but by no means our last, so I'll save the in-depth analysis of her for a later session after we've seen more of her.
Extras:
Extras:
Dynamesmouse
Bzzzzzz
Great things happen when two Infernalists can work together.
Did ES do some essay on how Infernalists (and Infernals) can do demonic pacts?I need more Infernal hombrew I'm interested to see how an ST and players could set up demonic pacts, the sort of things that demons offer and would collect as payment, and and a demon could actually collect on that payment. And also what happens when you screw over a demon, and how they would collect revenge.
Is there some sorcery to collect someone's soul and use it as a payment and/or resource? I want to scheme to get some hodunk village to sacrifice itself and use their souls to bargain for a wicked awesome hellsword!
Did ES do some essay on how Infernalists (and Infernals) can do demonic pacts?
Is there some sorcery to collect someone's soul and use it as a payment and/or resource? I want to scheme to get some hodunk village to sacrifice itself and use their souls to bargain for a wicked awesome hellsword!
Sorcery - Pacts
PACT (•-•••••)
The spirits of Creation, the demon-lords of Hell, the counts of the Dead and the princes of Chaos all have power and wisdom for those willing to make the sacrifices required to obtain it. Ambitious men implore Hell for demon-spawn to make up their armies and for the aristocracy of Malfeas to tend to their every whim. Queens venture to the Underworld and return laden with tarnished grave gold and with the ghost of their lover restored to her body - not quite alive, but a fascimile thereof. And tribal magicians across the fringes of Creation know how to barter with the greater powers of the Wyld for wonders. Such power always comes at a price, but many are willing to pay it.
Certain ancient contracts provide ritual formulae for known bargains with the spirits. Others call up an image of the spirit or venture to them in person to make good their deal. The old rituals are a known quantity, but ambitious men have often believed that they could negotitate a better deal in person. Sometimes they are even right.
The Pact can last for a fixed period of time, until the character or the patron chooses to end it in some pre-determined way, or for the duration of a certain task.
This background provides all the benefits of an equivalently-rated Mentor - this represents the knowledge and teaching the spirit is willing to provide. The character may speak with their patron in their dreams, allowing them to serve as a Mentor even when they're in another realm of existence.
Additionally, it also provides a number of background dots equal to Pact, which the character may assign and reassign to a range of other backgrounds negotiated at the time of the pact - commonly including things like Abyssal Command, Allies, Artefacts, Contacts, Demonic Familiar, Familiar, Followers, Spies, Resources and other such things. These backgrounds must be in theme for the spirit patron and must be something they can grant - for example, unless Ligier has a way to access Creation, he cannot serve as an Ally in person - but may send one of his easier-to-escape Second Circles to aid the character instead.
Drawback: A Pact is a merchantile exchange, born of self-interest, not generosity. The spirits demand payment for their aid. Spirits will not offer or agree to pacts that act too far against their own interests, even if the Background costs balance out.
Firstly, this pact serves to permit spirits from outside Creation - such as the princes of chaos, demons and the Dead - access to the world. Demons enjoy additional escape conditions, chaos-beings hide from the calcification of Creation within the letter of the law, and the Dead may ignore certain banes and bypass thresholds as they have been invited in. Even gods pacted to an Exalt are permitted to go outside the scope of their duties, as they borrow the authority of the princes of the Earth.
Secondly, a Pact implies no particular loyalty or friendship. A Pact is a joining of two partners - not master and servant. A demon Pacted to serve as a familiar is not mechanically a Demonic Familiar and does not automatically obey the character as a bound demon would. Characters would do well to remember this.
Thirdly, at the time of the negotiation of the Pact, the form of payment must also be agreed upon. The character must provide - in one way or another - the spirit with a Background equal to the rating of the pact, or optionally a Background equal to (Pact -1) once a year for Pacts lasting at least 5 years. Traditionally for demons and the Dead, this must be paid on Callibration or the new moon. For example, the mad green sun of Hell might, in return for Pact 4, demand 100 human souls be tithed to him every Callibration - which is equivalent to Followers 3. The Mask of Winters might put as a condition for his Pact 3 with an ambitious Dynast that she steals a certain storied grand goremaul with a history dating back to the Great Rebellion before he will provide any aid.
Should the character fail to provide payment, they are in default. The spirit can still see the dreams of the character, and additionally learns of their location whenever they sleep. This state of default lasts until the spirit has seized or destroyed a Background equal in value to the broken Pact belonging to the character. Most spirits will deliberately seek an ironic inversion of the benefits that the character enjoys thanks to the Pact. If the aid of a demon made them a prince, then the demon will seek to ruin their nation or have them overthrown; if a merchant became wealthy because of the favour of a god then the god will seek to see them beggared and sold into slavery to pay their debts.
In addition, the character suffers additional malign effects, based on the party they are in default to. This curse spreads beyond the character, and can also afflict their loved ones or lands they rule:
The fabulous wealth of the spirits means the Resources Background is worth less to them. For the purposes of the Pact background, Resources is counted as being two-dots lower rated both as a boon and a cost. Wealth enough to live like a king (Resources 5) can be obtained with a 3-dot Pact, while on the other hand a sizable gem (Resources 4) is only enough to pay off minor services from a 2-dot Pact. How many merchant princes have considered these inequitable terms, and decided that one hundred slaves tithed to the Lords of Death or the dukes of Hell is an excellent deal for years of fortune?
::END SIDEBAR::
The spirits of Creation, the demon-lords of Hell, the counts of the Dead and the princes of Chaos all have power and wisdom for those willing to make the sacrifices required to obtain it. Ambitious men implore Hell for demon-spawn to make up their armies and for the aristocracy of Malfeas to tend to their every whim. Queens venture to the Underworld and return laden with tarnished grave gold and with the ghost of their lover restored to her body - not quite alive, but a fascimile thereof. And tribal magicians across the fringes of Creation know how to barter with the greater powers of the Wyld for wonders. Such power always comes at a price, but many are willing to pay it.
Certain ancient contracts provide ritual formulae for known bargains with the spirits. Others call up an image of the spirit or venture to them in person to make good their deal. The old rituals are a known quantity, but ambitious men have often believed that they could negotitate a better deal in person. Sometimes they are even right.
The Pact can last for a fixed period of time, until the character or the patron chooses to end it in some pre-determined way, or for the duration of a certain task.
This background provides all the benefits of an equivalently-rated Mentor - this represents the knowledge and teaching the spirit is willing to provide. The character may speak with their patron in their dreams, allowing them to serve as a Mentor even when they're in another realm of existence.
Additionally, it also provides a number of background dots equal to Pact, which the character may assign and reassign to a range of other backgrounds negotiated at the time of the pact - commonly including things like Abyssal Command, Allies, Artefacts, Contacts, Demonic Familiar, Familiar, Followers, Spies, Resources and other such things. These backgrounds must be in theme for the spirit patron and must be something they can grant - for example, unless Ligier has a way to access Creation, he cannot serve as an Ally in person - but may send one of his easier-to-escape Second Circles to aid the character instead.
Drawback: A Pact is a merchantile exchange, born of self-interest, not generosity. The spirits demand payment for their aid. Spirits will not offer or agree to pacts that act too far against their own interests, even if the Background costs balance out.
Firstly, this pact serves to permit spirits from outside Creation - such as the princes of chaos, demons and the Dead - access to the world. Demons enjoy additional escape conditions, chaos-beings hide from the calcification of Creation within the letter of the law, and the Dead may ignore certain banes and bypass thresholds as they have been invited in. Even gods pacted to an Exalt are permitted to go outside the scope of their duties, as they borrow the authority of the princes of the Earth.
Secondly, a Pact implies no particular loyalty or friendship. A Pact is a joining of two partners - not master and servant. A demon Pacted to serve as a familiar is not mechanically a Demonic Familiar and does not automatically obey the character as a bound demon would. Characters would do well to remember this.
Thirdly, at the time of the negotiation of the Pact, the form of payment must also be agreed upon. The character must provide - in one way or another - the spirit with a Background equal to the rating of the pact, or optionally a Background equal to (Pact -1) once a year for Pacts lasting at least 5 years. Traditionally for demons and the Dead, this must be paid on Callibration or the new moon. For example, the mad green sun of Hell might, in return for Pact 4, demand 100 human souls be tithed to him every Callibration - which is equivalent to Followers 3. The Mask of Winters might put as a condition for his Pact 3 with an ambitious Dynast that she steals a certain storied grand goremaul with a history dating back to the Great Rebellion before he will provide any aid.
Should the character fail to provide payment, they are in default. The spirit can still see the dreams of the character, and additionally learns of their location whenever they sleep. This state of default lasts until the spirit has seized or destroyed a Background equal in value to the broken Pact belonging to the character. Most spirits will deliberately seek an ironic inversion of the benefits that the character enjoys thanks to the Pact. If the aid of a demon made them a prince, then the demon will seek to ruin their nation or have them overthrown; if a merchant became wealthy because of the favour of a god then the god will seek to see them beggared and sold into slavery to pay their debts.
In addition, the character suffers additional malign effects, based on the party they are in default to. This curse spreads beyond the character, and can also afflict their loved ones or lands they rule:
- Gods have avenue to pursue their revenge through the courts of Heaven. Few other gods will agree to a Pact with a known defaulter, and the character may find that injunctions are placed upon heavenly actions that would benefit them.
- In the Wyld, oaths and pacts are the only solidity - and the character has stepped beyond such protection. When in default to a Creature of the Wyld, the character finds that they and things they have a positive Intimacy towards experience the vicissitudes of chaos to a greater degree. An emperor may find that a wyldstorm sweeps their fields at harvest-time, polluting the crops, while a backwoods sorcerer may discover that buck-ogres migrate to take up residence in his forest.
- Those who cheat an elemental find either a paucity or an excess of their element. One who defaults a water elemental may suffer a drought - or floods.
- A thwarted demon gains an additional release condition appropriate to their circle that thematically relates to the default and the unpaid debt, as do demons who descend from them. For example, if a character promises Alevua a thousand green-eyed men as slaves and then does not pay up, then Alevua might gain an additional release condition that permits her to enter Creation when a green-eyed man loyal to the character kills an insect in a lightless room. In addition, should the character visit Malfeas they may find to their surprise that they legally are a citizen, rather than a stranger - and thus are subject to the law of Cecelyne.
- The curses of the Dead lie heavy. Any characters killed by the defaulter are much more likely to leave ghosts, and enter their existence knowing that the cheated ghost can help them get revenge for their murder. Plague and maladies become more common around the character, and their actions are more likely to produce shadowlands.
The fabulous wealth of the spirits means the Resources Background is worth less to them. For the purposes of the Pact background, Resources is counted as being two-dots lower rated both as a boon and a cost. Wealth enough to live like a king (Resources 5) can be obtained with a 3-dot Pact, while on the other hand a sizable gem (Resources 4) is only enough to pay off minor services from a 2-dot Pact. How many merchant princes have considered these inequitable terms, and decided that one hundred slaves tithed to the Lords of Death or the dukes of Hell is an excellent deal for years of fortune?
::END SIDEBAR::
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On Pacts, what do you see happening when the Spirit is the one in default?
Eg Solar Bob made a pact with a crafty 2CD to have a personal Hellstrider built and mantained. After gathering a great deal of magical materials and shipping them to Malfeas disaster strikes.
Octavian raided the 2CDs workship stealing all the materials leaving them without a Hellstrider to pay up.
What happens next?
[An elder DB with the Wyld Hunt has a pact with Octavian and called upon it after learning of Solar Bobs goal]
Eg Solar Bob made a pact with a crafty 2CD to have a personal Hellstrider built and mantained. After gathering a great deal of magical materials and shipping them to Malfeas disaster strikes.
Octavian raided the 2CDs workship stealing all the materials leaving them without a Hellstrider to pay up.
What happens next?
[An elder DB with the Wyld Hunt has a pact with Octavian and called upon it after learning of Solar Bobs goal]
The circumstances you describe are outside the scope of the Pact background as covered above. The Pact-ee does not strictly speaking promise anything there. They function as a Mentor and there are agreed Backgrounds that you can cash your Pact dots in for, but if they fail to build the warstrider... well, they're not in default. They tried in good faith, and they were sabotaged by someone else.
More generally, if they fail to live up to their end, they lose all their benefits and may - depending on how you secured your Pact - face additional consequences.
Why yes, that does mean you want your Eclipse there to seal the Pact you're making with a spirit. Almost like that's exactly what Eclipses are there for, and also means Eclipses are better at making Pacts with spirits and so can draw on their allies without needing silliness like Charmshare.