- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You're not wrong, but I don't foresee any plausible futures where Azula breaks in a way that leads to her taking airship joyrides or composing lightning-based theme music.
Arsonist's Lullaby: An Azula Timeloop Quest
- Thread starter Magery
- Start date
The funny part is that it might only take her a few hours to get the basics down. She's good at firebending in a way that most people don't really understand. Like, most people can't even generate lightning in this day and age, let alone do the crazy shit Azula does with it.
- Location
- France
Zuko got the basics of this form down in a matter of hours, as long as she can get herself in the proper mindset, Azula will learning at lightning (haha) speed.
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I doubt Zuko would be open to taking Azula to meet Ran and Shaw, as he would assume she would follow Sozin's line and try to kill them (even if she promised not to, because Zuko has a Heuristic when it comes to Azula's promises). I rather think he would insist on either himself, or Aang, or Iroh whom he knows learned the form, being the one to teach her, if anyone.
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Architect Iront.
Verified Cosplayer, Verified Living Doll
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm a little frustrated that we have to talk to Zuko this loop, even if it's important, because the person who can make the most impact on Azula' situation is Sokka. This takes a bit of explaining, so please bear with me.
First of all, our understanding of what to do is based entirely on Meta-Knowledge. We are familiar with Groundhog Day, therefore we know the way to escape a time loop is to become a better person. However, Azula has no reason to think this, because time loops aren't a thing in Avatar. In addition, not every loop works like this, and I can name at least one case off the top of my head where the loop had nothing to do with the person looping.
In 'The Suite Life of Zack and Cody; On Deck,' the cruise ship gets stuck in a time loop when it is struck by lightning while crossing the International Date Line. Cody is the only person who remembers, but the loop was entirely unrelated. He escapes by studying it and altering the course of the ship, not becoming a better person. Therefore, assuming Azula needs to become a better person to escape isn't logically sound. It's a guess, and not necessarily a good one.
Aluza's first real step should be to study the loop. Poke it, determine its exact effects and see if she can find any limits. It seems to be inescapable, but she hasn't, say, tried boarding an airship and spending all 9 days running as far to the West as possible to see if it has an edge. It probably doesn't, but you can't make assumptions here.
Not to mention the list of entities who could make a loop like this happen in universe is pretty short. A spirit of time could do it, and that's about it. If Azula learns who created the loop she could just ask them point blank what she's supposed to do to get out of it, cut out all the guessing.
However, Azula has close to the worst possible mindset to do this kind of analysis. She's a Firebender, Strategist, and Politician, all of which are focused on making the world bend to your will. Being able to ask the world a question and listen well enough to understand the answer is an antiethical skillset to that, as the latest chapters prove. Therefore, she needs to talk to someone who does have said skill.
Someone who is good with outside the box thinking. Someone who has a knack for unconventional solutions and asking the right question. Someone who would find the concept far too enticing to refuse to think about it. And most importantly of all, someone Azula is willing to respect enough to talk to.
Out of the entire cast Sokka is the only person who stands a chance of not just escaping a time loop, but understanding one. He may have no bearing on why Azula is stuck like this, but he is the person who can figure out how she got stuck, and give Azula a path to follow.
TL;DR, Azula has an unconventional problem and needs an unconventional solution. Sokka is good with both.
As for the vote, I don't have an opinion here. The past is likely the best starting point, but the past includes their mother, who Zuko can't think ill of even if deserved. And the other options are a bunch of guesswork about what they'd turn into. I'll save my vote for when I think I can make a difference.
First of all, our understanding of what to do is based entirely on Meta-Knowledge. We are familiar with Groundhog Day, therefore we know the way to escape a time loop is to become a better person. However, Azula has no reason to think this, because time loops aren't a thing in Avatar. In addition, not every loop works like this, and I can name at least one case off the top of my head where the loop had nothing to do with the person looping.
In 'The Suite Life of Zack and Cody; On Deck,' the cruise ship gets stuck in a time loop when it is struck by lightning while crossing the International Date Line. Cody is the only person who remembers, but the loop was entirely unrelated. He escapes by studying it and altering the course of the ship, not becoming a better person. Therefore, assuming Azula needs to become a better person to escape isn't logically sound. It's a guess, and not necessarily a good one.
Aluza's first real step should be to study the loop. Poke it, determine its exact effects and see if she can find any limits. It seems to be inescapable, but she hasn't, say, tried boarding an airship and spending all 9 days running as far to the West as possible to see if it has an edge. It probably doesn't, but you can't make assumptions here.
Not to mention the list of entities who could make a loop like this happen in universe is pretty short. A spirit of time could do it, and that's about it. If Azula learns who created the loop she could just ask them point blank what she's supposed to do to get out of it, cut out all the guessing.
However, Azula has close to the worst possible mindset to do this kind of analysis. She's a Firebender, Strategist, and Politician, all of which are focused on making the world bend to your will. Being able to ask the world a question and listen well enough to understand the answer is an antiethical skillset to that, as the latest chapters prove. Therefore, she needs to talk to someone who does have said skill.
Someone who is good with outside the box thinking. Someone who has a knack for unconventional solutions and asking the right question. Someone who would find the concept far too enticing to refuse to think about it. And most importantly of all, someone Azula is willing to respect enough to talk to.
Out of the entire cast Sokka is the only person who stands a chance of not just escaping a time loop, but understanding one. He may have no bearing on why Azula is stuck like this, but he is the person who can figure out how she got stuck, and give Azula a path to follow.
TL;DR, Azula has an unconventional problem and needs an unconventional solution. Sokka is good with both.
As for the vote, I don't have an opinion here. The past is likely the best starting point, but the past includes their mother, who Zuko can't think ill of even if deserved. And the other options are a bunch of guesswork about what they'd turn into. I'll save my vote for when I think I can make a difference.
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HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
Strategy and politics both involve quite a lot of information-gathering if you're any good at them. But the loops, at present, seem more mechanical than agentic, and Azula doesn't have much experience taking apart machines to see how they work. Or bodies, for that matter.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
But this argument is incoherent? Like, first off, it assumes the goal of the questers is to break the loop, rather than to make Azula a better person. Personally, if Azula broke the loop and killed Aang and Zuko and became Fire Lord, I'd consider that an unsatisfying and disappointing ending.
Secondly, it says that we have a problem with meta-gaming, and yes, while you're right that it's metagaming to know that character development will break the loop, it's also just... objectively right.
Third, and what strikes me as the most egregious, is the idea that somehow Azula going to Sokka for help with analyzing something is not metagaming? Like, no, that'd be equally meta-gamey if not more so than just making choices in the hope of having Azula become a better person. Like, to be clear, this is Azula's opinion on Sokka:
What about this makes you think Azula respects Sokka?
Epsilon Rose
The King of Unrest
Counter point: Becoming a better person, and better in general, is beneficial in its own right, even if it doesn't help Azula escape the loop. She also has, functionally, unlimited time to work on this while she's in the loop, but only finite time once it ends. In that light, I think prioritizing self improvement is the better course, even if it means delaying escaping the loop, unless we have some reason to believe the loop is finite and letting it run longer than necessary will have negative consequences.
I'd argue that Ty Lee, in this fic, has also been set up as in tune with the world and inquisitive and, while she may not be as scientifically minded as Sokka, Azula trusts her significantly more and she's arguably better at thinking outside the box. I don't doubt that talking to Sokka could be enlightening and beneficial, but I don't think he's uniquely qualified to help with escaping the loop, nor do I think he's anywhere close to the top of Azula's list of people to tell about it, regardless of how much meddling we do. (Remember, she's not a puppet and we don't have full control over her.)
Reminder: Azula considers him the useless one. She won't listen to any answers he finds without a lot of character development first.
And so character development is the way to escape the loop, even if the loop has nothing to do with Azula.
Edison_Trent
Freelancer
Also also, making a lot of assumptions about what Azula did or did not try during her off-screen backstory attempts to break the loop.
Azula, for all her character flaws, isn't going to ignore the resources at her stations disposal, especially those with different specializations than her. I bet she's already checked with the (leftover) Fire Sages for curses/who doo voo doo as well, and either didn't get a helpful response or wasn't in the right mindset to work with the helpful information she got. And Sokka is not the only analytical person that exists, just because the AtLA cartoon showed him as the analytical guy with the most screen time. The Fire Nation is a nation, with all that implies, including a bunch of STEM types that develop (and transport/construct) things like the giant drill, in what is basically the Victorian London era. Not too mention that Azula is one such type of analytical person herself, on the same level or more so, even if not mechanical engineering inclined.
For all we know, the whole start of this looping could've been Azula muttering "There's no way this day could be any worse." as she was dragged off in chains and the solution is genuinely wishing she could've just lived with the first iteration.
Azula, for all her character flaws, isn't going to ignore the resources at her stations disposal, especially those with different specializations than her. I bet she's already checked with the (leftover) Fire Sages for curses/who doo voo doo as well, and either didn't get a helpful response or wasn't in the right mindset to work with the helpful information she got. And Sokka is not the only analytical person that exists, just because the AtLA cartoon showed him as the analytical guy with the most screen time. The Fire Nation is a nation, with all that implies, including a bunch of STEM types that develop (and transport/construct) things like the giant drill, in what is basically the Victorian London era. Not too mention that Azula is one such type of analytical person herself, on the same level or more so, even if not mechanical engineering inclined.
For all we know, the whole start of this looping could've been Azula muttering "There's no way this day could be any worse." as she was dragged off in chains and the solution is genuinely wishing she could've just lived with the first iteration.
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- Location
- Te Ika-a-Māui
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sokka also has a big old Smartest Guy In The Room problem which has fucked him over in past.
One of Sokka's big things in canon in that he refuses to believe in spirits and supernatural explanations, in a world where spirits clearly exist and clearly influence the world. He is not the ideal person to help Azula with something weird like a supernatural time loop.
Terra Allias
World's only Magical Girl Spec Ops Asuka fan
- Location
- Cheverly
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You know, I get the sense that if this was a regular story instead of a quest it would take a lot longer for Azula to make the choices she makes, even with in media rez because its a quest and we expect results. Maybe there would be a chapter about Azula saying fuck it and throwing shit at the wall and see what sticks for her own amusement.
Low key feels like metagaming/speed running
Low key feels like metagaming/speed running
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- Location
- USA
Which is a little weird, honestly. She knows non-benders aren't useless, considering Ty Lee and Mai. Sure Sokka's not on their level, but he's no slouch.
More importantly, Azula absolutely knows the value of tactics and strategy. If she's done as much research on the Gaang as she implies, she should really know Sokka is basically the only way the Gaang managed as well as they did.
Epsilon Rose
The King of Unrest
My though is more towards the speed of the loops, rather than the speed of her progress. It seems like they're very short, in part because our choice of direction at the start of the loop is one of the more impactful choices each chapter and shorter loops help to return to that more quickly. However, it also feels like events and growth, especially for people other than Azula, aren't really given time to breath. Of course, part of that is also the genre and the fact that the loops are only 9 days long.
It just kind-of bothered me how quickly things moved on from Azula's public performance and how we never really got to see the fruits of Iroh's revelation and probably never will.
Edison_Trent
Freelancer
That's not really a big factor, there are quests that choose to do very short time slots (specifically thinking of Puella Magi Adfligo Systema) and fill everything up with narration to the point that a "day" can be ~50K or more words, as well as time loop stories that choose to do very detailed day-to-day interactions, even after years of looping, Mother of Learning coming to mind.
It's more that the only major "timestamps" in the narrative loop are the first interaction with Mai and Ty Lee, the entire 8-ish days leading up to the Fire Lord coronation, and then whatever the loop ends on, in the Azula vs Zuko Agni Kai timeslot. So, you mostly get those three chunks (two chunks and a summary sometimes, depending on vote focus) of "on screen" details, and everything else gets timeskipped to the "off screen" happenings.
Because this story is "in media res" style, i.e. Azula has already been through X years of looping off-screen, we as readers don't have all the in-between context that comes from seeing the main character(s) first few loops and how their life develops into the current pattern. We don't get the "well, back in loop 4, Azula discovered these three actions make her life easier, as long as her primary goal for the loop is X, so any goal close to X will have Azula doing those things in the background" knowledge, and we don't have detailed enough context to fill in the blanks, so our imagination automatically treats it as "empty space" whenever a time skip between one of the on-screen parts happens.
The biggest always-happening-off-screen (unless specifically mentioned otherwise) background detail I can call up without re-reading is that Azula spends a bunch of time doing paperwork for the Fire Nation in some sort of paperwork based appeals system and focuses on the least important signatures first. Which she should basically have memorized by now, so she really just shuffles paperwork by memory and stamps/burns things by rote while internally dying of boredom or thinking about past/future loops.
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- Location
- Te Ika-a-Māui
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sokka is also the reason she gets into Ba Sing Se*, let's not pretend all his actions are winners.
*both proximately in that he tells the EK guards to admit the "Kyoshi warriors", and ultimately in that Azula, Ty Lee, and Mai wouldn't be able to disguise themselves as the Kyoshi warriors if it weren't for Sokka assuming he can trick Wan Shi Tong.
- Location
- USA
I'm not sure how much you can blame him for either of those. Like technically Sokka trying to trick WST led to them to the Library sinking, which led to Toph not being able to defend Appa, which led to the Kyoshi Warriors fighting ATM...but that's such a wild chain of events it's hard to say it's Sokka's fault.
Telling the guards to let them in is a lot iffier. They could've gotten into the city (after all, Zuko and Iroh did), but getting into the palace would've been a lot harder.
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't disagree, but we're stuck to choosing between things that Azula thinks might be worth doing, and she has a lot of character development left to go before she considers a non-bender from the Southern Water Tribe worth her time.
I take it back, I do disagree. With your argument, at least. Your conclusion, separated from the path you took to get there, is accurate. Going on a life-changing field trip with Sokka would be good for Azula.
- Location
- San Ramon, CA
To be honest, it's not so much the Dragon Dance in and of itself that I'm hoping will change Azula's mind. My big wish is that she eventually gets the chance to see this:
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- Location
- France
Azula mentions in one of the updates that she combed through the Fire Sages ancient archives on search for any hints about past events of time looping or any spirit that could have such a power, and found nothing. So the "poking the time loop to see how it clicks" was already done in the past loops.
It could also simply be that Magery wants to keep their sanity and limits each loops to three updates.
It could also be because she still stubbornly clings to the dutiful Crown Princess role and spend most of her time following her routine of doing paperwork, preparing for the coronations of her father and hers, and her daily training in the evening, which eats most of her available time, when what she needs to do is to get out of this routine and fully exploit the nine days she has in a loop.
It could also simply be that Magery wants to keep their sanity and limits each loops to three updates.
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infinityDivided
Prince Of Doom
- Location
- USA
Inb4 it turns out Azula has already worked it out independently, she just doesn't care.To be honest, it's not so much the Dragon Dance in and of itself that I'm hoping will change Azula's mind. My big wish is that she eventually gets the chance to see this:
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
To be honest, it's not so much the Dragon Dance in and of itself that I'm hoping will change Azula's mind. My big wish is that she eventually gets the chance to see this:
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
That probably would help, yea.
I think so. I think that what basically happened is that he realized that Azula is every bit the victim that Zuko is. In a lot of ways Azula was failed more consistently and in more ways than Zuko was. Zuko at least had Iroh and Ursa, Azula on the other hand had neither of those. She actually thinks that they failed her, even if I don't think she consciously acknowledges it.
She could even be said to be right, she said that Iroh never gave her wisdom and she honestly says that her mother thought she was a monster. Ursa also said goodbye to Zuko, but didn't say goodbye to Azula. She's not a monster, she's Zuko's dark mirror, she's the Zuko who was never given help and was never saved. Possibly the worst thing here is that Iroh thought she was a monster, oh sure I don't think he fully believed that, but it was there at all. Iroh didn't know her and he left her with the man who burned Zuko's face. He saved his nephew, but he left his niece under the complete and total control of a monster.
I think it would actually be interesting for her fire bending to break. Mai was confused when she realized that Azula wasn't even angry. I could see that growing into her losing the required mentality to firebend with the methods she was taught. It would be fascinating to see a loop or two where Azula loses the ability to firebend, something she considers fundamental to herself. Where she needs to reinvent herself or backtrack to gain the ability to firebend at all.
I was thinking the Sun Warriors being a thing. Or their methods. It could also be her full ancestry. Zuko did read Sozin's memoirs.
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