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Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest

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Chimeraguard said:
Say, come to think of it, are we still doing this infantry/cavalry/artillerist divide for manpower? Could have sworn that would've been altered some. And that we were going to have Horses as an additional Equipment or 'Manpower' resource.

Also, oof. Our supplies dropped hard. We went from 166 Supplies at the end of the 3rd March (plus 5/5 Supplies in every unit) to a projected 81 once our Fourth March is over.
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Well yeah, we were told to give 60 Supplies to Guillory and we did so. That's where basically all of the loss is.
 
I don't really think that a river line is as good defensive ground as some people think it is.

Taking up position behind the river and waiting just invites Norn to concentrate its armies and force one of the crossings. Be it contested or uncontested. We simply don't have the forces to guard all crossings along the river. Pin us in place with one army directly in front of us on the road, ford the river with two others. We'd have no choice to give up our position.

Holding the riverline only works if we have forces to spare. Particularly infantry units.
 
Dutch said:
I don't really think that a river line is as good defensive ground as some people think it is.

Taking up position behind the river and waiting just invites Norn to concentrate its armies and force one of the crossings. Be it contested or uncontested. We simply don't have the forces to guard all crossings along the river. Pin us in place with one army directly in front of us on the road, ford the river with two others. We'd have no choice to give up our position.

Holding the riverline only works if we have forces to spare. Particularly infantry units.
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You mean like the 6th army that is reinforcing us? We will operate with more than just our infantry during the defense.
 
Red Rationalist said:
You mean like the 6th army that is reinforcing us? We will operate with more than just our infantry during the defense.
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Even with the VI. on our side I expect the Norns to outnumber us if we let things stand as they do now. Taking the south bank allows Trotha to rebuild the Army of the Center. And I'll eat my shoes if there aren't two Nornisch armies coming to reinforce their front.

Likewise. My faith in VI. Army's ability to act independently in a reliable fashion is low.
 
Dutch said:
Even with the VI. on our side I expect the Norns to outnumber us if we let things stand as they do now. Taking the south bank allows Trotha to rebuild the Army of the Center. And I'll eat my shoes if there aren't two Nornisch armies coming to reinforce their front.

Likewise. My faith in VI. Army's ability to act independently in a reliable fashion is low.
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Norn is known for having quite good rather than large armies. There would presumably also be a limit on their force size, especially with them also having to occupy their gained territory. The number of crossing will be limited, and an army trying to move over to one isn't exactly subtle. Secondly, Guillory has shown he isn't an idiot, and can presumably manage a holding action across a bridge till our main force arrives. I think operating on the assumption he is one is shooting ourselves in the foot here. We would also be able to communicate via courier.
 
The Laurent said:
Two, they gather up forty-thousand people or something absurd like that, or thirty-thousand frankly would be more than enough to make a direct confrontation unwise, and then... we'd have to retreat back to the other bank. We have scouts, I don't think it'd take multiple days (and we'd at least get a day or two info in advance) for us to cross the river without the enemy bearing down on us.
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We don't have a force able to attack a provincial army like Trotha's, which is why we resorted to defense. I think the chance of them sending a force we can beat without a good defensive advantage are next to zero, leading to a likely scenario where we cross a river, ignore direct orders, only to retreat across the river again.
The Laurent said:
My other problem is that, by the time we're at the South Bank of the river, we'll be, like, a week and a half from communication with them. Each way. So this would imply that we're waiting at least three weeks and more probably months or "literally never" for orders from a Convention that's kinda busy. Like, the further north we advance, the more waiting for every single order becomes unwise.
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The assembly was pretty clear in setting limits for our operations. This isn't a case of us waiting for orders, this is a case of them telling us what to do "Don't go over the Raoille and defend", rather than letting us operate how we see fit. Now, I think the spirit of their order was "Don't undertake offensive operations", not "literally don't put a single boot north of the river", but they were clear in setting us an operational area we have to stay in. Worrying about this act of insubordination being used by political enemies against us is a valid concern in my opinion, and I would generally prefer to stick to their orders if we don't have a very compelling reason not to do so.

I also don't know how you arrive at the 3 weeks for communication. The last time we sent a letter to them requesting updated commands we were at Martelnac, just before we took Daurstein (Sub-Turn La Durance: Terms of Surrender) our timeline was something on the order of a week.
Photomajig said:
The Fifth Army advances. While the bulk of your force moves north, messengers ride back along the northern road with hastily-written letters from you. One is to Guillory, calling on him to join you at Daurstein posthaste. The other is to the Convention, explaining the situation and your actions.
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We heard back from the assembly a week later, since we communicate with them via a fast system of couriers. We received our response a week later (La Durance- Third March results), where a lot of the time presumably also involved debate rather than the pure delivery of the letter.
Photomajig said:
On the 22nd, you receive word that Guillory has arrived in Grigny-sur-Vaud with the VI. Army. That should put him at Daurstein on the 24th. He sends a messenger before him, with an enlightening letter:
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I don't see us taking much longer than that to communicate when we move north. We are talking about a single messanger moving with a horse, and handing the message over to the next one. 3 weeks for communication by moving a few days north is unlikely.
 
[X] March for the Raoille. Daurstein was only the first step of your grand plan. Norn is wide open for the taking. You'll march north, seize the bridge over the Raoille, and...
-[X] And hold the south bank. You'll establish a position on the south bank of the river, daring the Nornish Army to come and try it. It's a good position to hold back any potential Nornish attack, and keeps the Convention happy with you. 4-5 days. 2 Army Actions allowed.
[X] Handle it yourself. The Fifth killed them, so the Fifth can clean them up, too. The men might grumble, but there's no risk of more elves escaping your pickets. Army of the Centre may recover fewer elven Casualties. Army Morale falls by 1. Opinion of Arné and Raka Durand in the local region may improve.
 
[X] March for the Raoille. Daurstein was only the first step of your grand plan. Norn is wide open for the taking. You'll march north, seize the bridge over the Raoille, and...
-[X] And hold the south bank. You'll establish a position on the south bank of the river, daring the Nornish Army to come and try it. It's a good position to hold back any potential Nornish attack, and keeps the Convention happy with you. 4-5 days. 2 Army Actions allowed.
[X] Handle it yourself. The Fifth killed them, so the Fifth can clean them up, too. The men might grumble, but there's no risk of more elves escaping your pickets. Army of the Centre may recover fewer elven Casualties. Army Morale falls by 1. Opinion of Arné and Raka Durand in the local region may improve.
 
[X] March for the Raoille. Daurstein was only the first step of your grand plan. Norn is wide open for the taking. You'll march north, seize the bridge over the Raoille, and...
-[X] And hold the north bank. You'll establish a position on the north bank of the river, seizing perhaps the most important strategic crossing of the front. You can make it hell for the Nornish Army to try and reclaim their beloved natural barrier. The Convention's orders were not to operate north of the Raoille, but they'll have to understand the strategic necessity of a position on the far side. 5 days. 2 Army Actions allowed.
[X] Handle it yourself. The Fifth killed them, so the Fifth can clean them up, too. The men might grumble, but there's no risk of more elves escaping your pickets. Army of the Centre may recover fewer elven Casualties. Army Morale falls by 1. Opinion of Arné and Raka Durand in the local region may improve.
 
[X] March for the Raoille. Daurstein was only the first step of your grand plan. Norn is wide open for the taking. You'll march north, seize the bridge over the Raoille, and...
-[X] And hold the north bank. You'll establish a position on the north bank of the river, seizing perhaps the most important strategic crossing of the front. You can make it hell for the Nornish Army to try and reclaim their beloved natural barrier. The Convention's orders were not to operate north of the Raoille, but they'll have to understand the strategic necessity of a position on the far side. 5 days. 2 Army Actions allowed.
[X] Handle it yourself. The Fifth killed them, so the Fifth can clean them up, too. The men might grumble, but there's no risk of more elves escaping your pickets. Army of the Centre may recover fewer elven Casualties. Army Morale falls by 1. Opinion of Arné and Raka Durand in the local region may improve.
 
[X] March for the Raoille. Daurstein was only the first step of your grand plan. Norn is wide open for the taking. You'll march north, seize the bridge over the Raoille, and...
-[X] And hold the north bank. You'll establish a position on the north bank of the river, seizing perhaps the most important strategic crossing of the front. You can make it hell for the Nornish Army to try and reclaim their beloved natural barrier. The Convention's orders were not to operate north of the Raoille, but they'll have to understand the strategic necessity of a position on the far side. 5 days. 2 Army Actions allowed.

[X] Handle it yourself. The Fifth killed them, so the Fifth can clean them up, too. The men might grumble, but there's no risk of more elves escaping your pickets. Army of the Centre may recover fewer elven Casualties. Army Morale falls by 1. Opinion of Arné and Raka Durand in the local region may improve.
 
Tbh if we expect to not be able to fight the approaching enemy, then daurstein is the superior choice.

So if we go to the river we should do it expecting that we will be able to fight the enemy
 
Holding the northern bank of the Raoille will make it look like we're securing the crossing for further Arnése armies coming to our aid.

That will force the incoming professional armies of Norm to rush us and let us face them piecemeal.
 
I voted for south bank because if I'm fighting a professional army that might outnumber me, I want their back to a river (or preferably their feet in it), not mine. Daurstein and North Bank are both fine choices for other reasons, but that's my thoughts on it.
 
[X] Remain in Daurstein for a week (3 actions, ~ 7 days)
[X] Handle it yourself.

we "spread our forced a bit thin" the last 2 fights, and we need a BIT of drilling" and some reserves.

al we have is "chasing a near worthless enemy throught a RIVER into a FORTIFIED city, yeah, not a great plan, an considering they have "nymphs" in the woods" yeah that screams "ambush"... let them "survive as mouths to feed and be dishonored" lets them "become a white elephant"

worse case scenario we "taunt the royal elf into coming back into a crossing the river 30 meter into OUR ambush"
 
[X] Remain in Daurstein for a week (3 actions, ~ 7 days)

[X] Allow the burials. It is the done thing. It's not a matter of debate. Army of the Centre may recover more elven Casualties.
 
[X] Handle it yourself. The Fifth killed them, so the Fifth can clean them up, too. The men might grumble, but there's no risk of more elves escaping your pickets. Army of the Centre may recover fewer elven Casualties. Army Morale falls by 1. Opinion of Arné and Raka Durand in the local region may improve.
[X] March for the Raoille. Daurstein was only the first step of your grand plan. Norn is wide open for the taking. You'll march north, seize the bridge over the Raoille, and...
-[X] And hold the south bank. You'll establish a position on the south bank of the river, daring the Nornish Army to come and try it. It's a good position to hold back any potential Nornish attack, and keeps the Convention happy with you. 4-5 days. 2 Army Actions allowed.
 
Ooh, the South Bank vs North Bank vote is really close. Exciting!

The Laurent said:
I feel for this that natruska's post kinda outlines my skepticism about how well that will work, and so I kinda don't want to repeat this argument too much.
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Natruska's idea was that the enemy may decide to split their forces, sending one force West to cross the River there while sending another force to keep us busy at the crossing, right? Personally, I feel that is less of a threat if we are South of the River, not North. This is because if such a maneuver forces us to retreat and fight the Western force, retreat is much faster when we don't have to cross the river to do so. We can meet this maneuver from the South bank just as well as from the North: we either choose to go West (faster than if we are on the South bank) or sally out to attack the force on the other side of the river (which is fine to do provided we spot them in time for a safe crossing).
The Laurent said:
I also just don't see how we could be that unsafe up North. LIke, there's two possibilities: one, we fight a force that's beatable. Yes, we could lose to that force but I'd like to not plan around "we will lose a battle specifically by misplaying a situation we could have reasonably won."
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Then this is a fundamental difference in our thinking. I think on the strategic level, we should always take the possibility of defeat into account. We should, whenever possible, make decisions in such a way that a defeat is not disastreous, but something we can recover from.
The Laurent said:
Two, they gather up forty-thousand people or something absurd like that, or thirty-thousand frankly would be more than enough to make a direct confrontation unwise, and then... we'd have to retreat back to the other bank. We have scouts, I don't think it'd take multiple days (and we'd at least get a day or two info in advance) for us to cross the river without the enemy bearing down on us.
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This is again the part I do not understand, and why I asked the QM for some clarification on why/if defending the Southern bank is not easier than the Northern bank . Because by my math, 10k troops could very well be able to hold a river crossing against 40k troops, since crossing rivers while actively under fire is extremely risky and costly. What prevents us from attacking the enemy once the first 10k of their troops are crossing, caught with their figurative pants down?

However, I do admit I might be missing something here? Maybe the river is shallow enough that crossing it away from the main crossing is not too difficult?
 
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