Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest

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Keep in mind that bracing and charging only apply to the first round of melee combat.
The added wounding applies to all rounds of melee.
To more accurately demonstrate my argument...

(Charges into Braced / Total Charges)
Well, thank you for collecting the data. That was quite meticulous. With this being said, I don't think our previous combat is typical of future one. Brutet should be discounted for obvious reasons, and Mauvais was defensive in nature, centred around defending our artillery position. We also lacked the numbers to properly charge there. Small armies have troubles forming an assault formation without the line crumbling, but our numbers will increase over time. There will be times when we need to be on the offensive.
  • Cavalry charges are hard to brace for (cavalry and infantry differences explanation).
  • Bracing became a lot less common after the ready fire change (Saintonge explanation 1).
  • Correctly predicting when to brace is easier in small battles (Saintonge explanation 2).
  • With muddy terrain serious charges are disincentivized (Brutet explanation 1).
  • Infantry charges are less likely to run into a brace when the enemy army is trying to withdraw (Brutet explanation 2).
Bracing for cavalry charges is easier when you are holding a position (see the charge of our def. genius hussars, Brutet). It's very difficult if you don't know where the cavalry could strike, but more feasible when they can only come from a certain angle due to terrain.
Though all that counting and math doesn't really matter. The core of the disagreement we're having seems to be with the idea that good and niche are separate categories at all.
The way I see it, an good army composition needs to be able to do a variety of tasks. Hold a line, set up an ambush, scout an area, assault an enemy line, screen and pursue, fight in rough terrain and so on. I prefer having an army that is strong and flexible, meaning they aren't depending on a specific battlefield and not on having a specific job, being able to fight a lot of different armies.

An army solely made out of dwarven infantry would be good in a few key areas (defending and attacking) but would utterly fail at several other tasks. They would struggle dealing sufficient damage against an infantry line with fire support in rough terrain. You can see in the case of Brutet how just having high cohesion is insufficient for going on the offensive against fire support, you need to rout units quickly enough in order to get cover. Hobs are an excellent niche unit for charges. An army tasked with "take this hill from the enemy" is going to perform quite a lot bit better when they have hobs then one that doesn't.

To be very explicit: A niche unit is good when their use often comes up. Nymphs aren't really that good of a niche unit, since they heavily depend on a specific terrain close to the front to help. Hobs gives a use that will come up very often, taking an area by charging in and routing the enemy, ideally before reinforcements arrive.
It's not worded well but I was referring to the extra casualties from charging into a braced unit at that part. Hobgoblins still take that counterattack damage.
That's fair, though I would also say the casulties mount the longer you have to be in melee before routing the enemy. A prolonged offensive greatly benefits from high damage, as this allows you to seize cover, reduce the number of attacks on you and prevents the enemy from getting the time to attack you from the flanks or to build up a second line.
Huh, while this is relevant to the current discussion about Hobgoblins... My first thought was that it makes Lances a lot stronger than I was previously aware of, and I already though Hobgoblin Lancers were among the best.
Hob lancers are absolute monsters on the offensive. Double advantage, can't be braced against and hit like a close-range artillery strike. Oh, and +1 cohesion damage too. Shame the mud prevents them from really shining, they are quite good.
 
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You can see in the case of Brutet how just having high cohesion is insufficient for going on the offensive against fire support, you need to rout units quickly enough in order to get cover.

Brutet is not a great example for this, if Wachenheim had Hobs instead of dwarves he would have done worse. The 148th has done a whole lot of 1 Brace action and hobs would have 40% less cohesion, which +1 wounding is unlikely to make up
 
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An army solely made out of dwarven infantry would be good in a few key areas (defending and attacking) but would utterly fail at several other tasks. They would struggle dealing sufficient damage against an infantry line with fire support in rough terrain. You can see in the case of Brutet how just having high cohesion is insufficient for going on the offensive against fire support, you need to rout units quickly enough in order to get cover. Hobs are an excellent niche unit for charges. An army tasked with "take this hill from the enemy" is going to perform quite a lot bit better when they have hobs then one that doesn't.

Honestly, at Brutet the issue Norn's halfhearted offensive ran into was twofold. Yes, they had to do enough damage to rout the 148th (hard) but just as importantly they also had to keep from routing in the following fire phase (even harder) to keep us from just moving another unit into the tile. Routing the 148th one turn faster wouldn't have changed anything on its own.

Pushing forward enough to make an attack on our horse artillery would have required at least two regiments with ~20 cohesion, good officers, and some way to do ~30 extra casualties to the 148th.
 
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Thoughts on the war situation and politics.

There does not seem to be a clear grand objective to achieve in this war on our side from the National Convention beyond defending Arné and the Revolution for the moment. This is understandable but it is dangerous for a country to not have a clear grand objective that it can pursue in a war.

Here, the divergences between the Arnése Revolution and the French Revolution begin to really matter. In our world, it was the more moderate republicans who wanted war with foreign powers to rally the people and to spread the Revolution while the royal family supported the war in hopes that the revolutionary government would be defeated by foreign powers and the French absolute monarchy would be restored. In our world, it was Revolutionary France that declared war first on the foreign powers. The opening stages of the war were a disaster for France and the Revolution was placed in immediate peril of defeat.

In this fantasy world, it is one of the radical republican factions the Liberationists that wanted war to spread the Revolution while both moderate factions wanted to normalize relations with the foreign powers while the other radical republican faction is against the idea of an aggressive revolutionary war and the King has already been sidelined. In this fantasy world, it was the reactionary foreign powers that first declared war on Arné. The opening stages of the war seem to be okay for Arné and the Revolution has some breathing room for the moment. War has been forced on Arné and the Levelers have to decide what exactly a "war only in defense of the People" means now. Should the Levelers join the Liberationists in spreading the Revolution to other countries or should the Levelers seek a quicker peace that forces the Golden Realms into leaving Arné alone and allowed to develop its form of government in peace in exchange for not spreading the Revolution to other countries? The latter option may require an unholy alliance with the moderate faction on the foreign policy issues.

Could it be the reactionary powers that end up growing desperate and resorting to other means to carry on the war in this fantasy world? So far, the war seems like it could end up as another cabinet war on the surface. The situation is not truly desperate for either side yet and there is no levée en masse yet. We haven't seen the Orders Militant of the Church yet, which are said to have contributed thousands of fanatical soldiers to the wars against the Revolution. Imagine if General Guizot repels the Herculians in the south as expected while General Durand and General De Montelivet win victory after victory against Norn and its allies in the north. Revolutionary Arnése armies managing to defeat Norn's armies could horrify the other Golden Realms and the Church of the Highest. They could believe that Arné will try to spread the Revolution even if the National Convention does not actually want to do that or the success of the Arnése Revolution is an example too intolerable to allow to continue existing. The Church of the Highest might even declare a holy war against the Revolution. This would greatly inflame things of course.

Citizen Clotaire's trial has not been given a definite date. The people will not be happy until they see him condemned, so why does the Convention drag its feet? The case is as clear as can be. Perhaps the decision does need to be taken out of their hands, after all.
Is this the first time that the thought of challenging the National Convention has entered Durand's mind? I wonder how long the moderates in the National Convention can delay the King's trial. The moderates fear that the communards will storm the King's holding place and lynch the King. They should also fear the possibility of radicals in the army running out of patience with the National Convention's foot dragging and conducting the equivalent of Pride's Purge to get the King's trial going as well.

However, I don't think that it will come to that. The latest that the moderates can delay the trial is until the fall election where the Constitutionalists will likely lose most of their seats unless opinions dramatically change in favor of the King or if the elections are cancelled.
 
They've been discussing the matter for what? Two to three weeks?

The IRL process took five or so months.
 
There does not seem to be a clear grand objective to achieve in this war on our side from the National Convention beyond defending Arné and the Revolution for the moment. This is understandable but it is dangerous for a country to not have a clear grand objective that it can pursue in a war.
The opening stages of the war seem to be okay for Arné and the Revolution has some breathing room for the moment.
I think this is underestimating the entire situation. Things aren't just alright, the opening stage went shockingly well for Arné so far. To explain: The initial plan of Norn was to put pressure on Arné with the 2 provincial armies and their superior numbers and drill. Taking Antreville would have been ideal, but having both provincial armies attack and disorganize the enemy to prevent Arné from really mustering forces was probably the anticipated pessimistic outcome, even if battles went badly. Arné would fight hard on the defensive, eroding their strategic reserves and exhausting them while the fresh, professional corps arrived. The opening move could be understood as a skirmish on the strategic level.

The assembly anticipated this and told us to defend, trying to stall the initial thrust until proper reinforcements could be put together. Ideally we would exhaust the provincial armies without too much of a blood toll, buying them time. We defended well before, so this was certainly possible.

What we managed to achieve in actuality is something everybody thought impossible, me included. We achieved a decisive victory against one army in the mud, disintegrating them. The force balance now leans in the favour of Arné, with us entirely able to start offensive operations against Trotha once we rest a bit. A strategic victory before the professional regiments show up is now possible, with the invasion of Musselmond a sideshow. If the war follows the current trends, Engelsburg and Sonneneck will be the strategic buffer, with Arné having 3 weeks to muster proper armies before the real battle begins. The victory in the strategic skirmish is shockingly decisive as of yet. Parliament simply didn't expect this outcome and must reconsider the strategy.
Reconsidering their stance with this assessment in mind, hopefully they will simply pull their plans for a counteroffensive out of the drawer and tell us to go ham before the professional corps arrives. It might just be a case of the assembly giving us a lot of leeway in what do, giving us the order "attack as you see fit". Our orders before boiled down to "defend as you see fit, but don't retreat behind Antreville".
 
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My studies will be picking up (got an exam this month (April)), but I'll try to review when I can.

Your guns are vulnerable
If the enemy kill or rout your artillerymen and then spike the guns...

Shame they're on the wrong side
I agree. What are they fighting for again?

for the first time in hours, Josephine Wyler feels alive once more
Wyler's the sort of soldier who'd yell "Get Some!" while firing a machine gun, isn't she?

The boy's wearing a faded royal uniform two sizes too large
"Happens all the time."

She has to cut her admiring short
She's enjoying this war.

The boy dies grasping for the wound, as if he could keep the chamber of his heart spilling out onto the dirt with just his fingers
Jesus Christ...I feel sick reading this. Anyone who thinks war is awesome is either a fool or is like Wyler.

One of her own soldiers is cut down at her side. Pitiful
I don't like Wyler, but I can see why she is good at her job.

The red haze parts for long enough
Methinks Wyler enjoys her job a tad too much.

Captain Planque, a too-slick city lawyer turned revolutionary volunteer
The French Revolution was indeed an incredible, complex, fascinating, wondrous and horrific series of events that reverberated throughout the world, not just Europe.

How? Infantrymen can't outrun a horse!

The elven riders let loose a cry in archaic Elvish
The elves ruled much of this world for a long time, and they have no intention of relinquishing their hold on their dominion.

Pathetic, worthless stock
Seeing people as nothing but chattel and disposable resources. Wyler is a sociopath.

The regiment is better for it
Someone is eventually going to roll a grenade into Wyler's tent, aren't they?
 
La Durance: Terms of Surrender
[X] Go on the offensive.
-[X] Approach Daurstein
--[X] Write the assembly that the moment for offensive action against Norn is here, and fleeting fast. Inform them of the state of the western army. Ask for reinforcements to secure the Nornish border and, should they deem it necessary, start proper offensive operations. Explain that the 5th is at the border of Norn around Martelnac, taking Daurstein as a defensive buffer with the goal of stopping any enemy from even stepping on Arnése soil. Stress your determination to abide by any decision and order the rightful government of the people will give you. You are merely obeying the spirit instead of the letter of your orders for a good defense by taking the rapidly changing local situation into account, not deciding how the war should be waged.
--[X] Tell Guillory to join you at Daurstein. Stress that any future offensive must pass through Daurstein, with Arnesé having the opportunity to secure a buffer. Say that you won't let the opportunity to pass and make the need to be together for Trotha's potentially superior numbers to be overcome very clear. Explain your reasoning, thus letting him on on the logic and hopefully softening any hint of presumption therein.
--[X] Send couriers/demands ahead: Offer very generous terms to the enemy officers, very, very generous terms to the enemy soldiers, and generous and reasonable terms to Daurstein ahead of your arrival, even if it might mean a slight delay. Make it clear that it is not your intent to war on the People of Norn, and that insisting on fighting will only cause unnecessary loss of life.
---[X] Potential for promise of parole from the officers involving a promise not to fight against Arne for the rest of the war, and surrender of the two field artillery, but not the artillerymen, who are free to go with the rest. These are negotiable points, but something must be done with the artillery pieces, or at least that seems to be the case.
--[X] Make sure this information is widely known, using more than one messenger, so that it cannot be hidden from either the populace or the common soldier.
--[X] Hold off on the decision on whether to assault or set up a siege until actually at Daurstein, and judge based on reactions to the surrender requests, weather factors, etc, etc.

The Fifth Army advances. While the bulk of your force moves north, messengers ride back along the northern road with hastily-written letters from you. One is to Guillory, calling on him to join you at Daurstein posthaste. The other is to the Convention, explaining the situation and your actions.

You don't think you are the most diplomatic or charming writer of letters, but damnit, it should get the job done without extraneous pleasantries. Time is of the essence. There are enough military delegates in the Convention that they should understand the realities of war.

You cross the Vaud into Norn without resistance, a feat few wartime generals can boast of. The bridge has been painted a dismal brown from the mud-thick water lapping at its stones, but it stands securely to grant you passage. The Vaud looks eager to spill entirely from its moorings. The rain seems to be growing sparser, but that is still a concern if the water keeps coming in.

You draft up a set of generous terms of surrender while on the road. Why commit to battle or siege if you do not need to? Let them think and argue while you march. You frame them in a popular sort of way, hoping to appeal to the common people of the city.

A siege is a curious game. For the defender, a swift surrender promises survival without significant hardship. Though there is generally a price to pay - supplies, munitions and funds to offer as tribute - a city that surrenders without fighting is safe from devastation. A city that falls to assault, though, can only expect a sack - a bestial episode of murder, looting and ruin, which a general in such conditions can only restrict, not prevent altogether.

Yet if one resists, an assault could be repulsed, a siege withstood. A friendly army might come to the rescue and compel your besieger to withdraw. Von Trotha is almost certainly on his way and Daurstein knows it.

For the city's authorities, the matter is simple enough. Their duty is to their people (and their property). If there is little hope of rescue, surrender is the only rational course of action. But there are other actors, other duties. The dregs of the Army owe their loyalty to the King. To surrender without a fight would be shameful. It might kill an officer's career. For the Nornish military leadership, defiance must seem attractive - especially with von Trotha likely on the way.

There is also the matter of national pride, some feeling of needing to fight and die for their King. But most people are not fanatics and Daurstein is far from the heartland.

On any other day, you'd expect them to at least try to hold out for a short while. But today is not any other day. It is the day after the Army of the West has suffered the most devastating loss in its history and been robbed of near its entire command staff. You are moving swiftly and capitalizing on their shock and fear.

You pray that it counts for enough. Your envoys ride out with the flag of truce once you've crossed the Vaud in full. Karo Bonnaire wins the honor of carrying your message in with a small retinue after his exploits at Brutet. He takes the time to put on a clean uniform and scrub his buttons until they shine for it. What that is intended to accomplish when he must still cross miles of muddy plain in the rain is beyond you.

You near the city hours later to find, to your relief, that they've honored the flag of truce. It should not be a concern, but you are not, strictly speaking, to your credit, an elven aristocrat. Bonnaire has delivered your demands, and then there is nothing to do but wait. You set up your tent on a hill overlooking the city and occupy yourself with studying the lay of the land.

Daurstein is a sizeable town, squeezed in between the river and forest-brown hills which run like waves towards the east until they cross an invisible line and transition with abrupt sharpness into the black mountains of the great Markwald. The horizon in that direction is choked with rumbling storms, but they are headed away, unless the wind turns on you.

Thanks to your maps and some of your soldiers' local knowledge, you can read the history of the town in its architecture. It's centered on a low hill and descends down its slopes like a flowing skirt. The tightly-packed nested alleys at its highest point are what remains of Daurstein's old town, which supposedly had its houses get burnt down by a dragon in the 1100s. You suspect more mundane causes are to blame, but who knows? That's ancient history.

That particular event is commemorated in the sturdy stone gate on the southern side, facing you directly, which once allowed passage through the medieval walls. There used to be a big old statue of a dragon atop it, but it was blown to smithereens in some war or another, so now only the name remains. Perhaps for the best. If it comes to a battle, you'd hate to blow it to smithereens yourself.

The town's long since spilled past the Drachentor, in any case. Now its environs are guarded not by walls, but a series of low bastions that could catch anyone trying to march straight through in deadly enfilade. They're far from impenetrable, but without siege guns or sappers, your only option would be to scale the walls and clear them at close quarters. A nasty business, that, even in ideal conditions.

From this distance, there are few signs of life in the town itself, little motion to see. Daurstein looks like a model of a city dropped into the mud. But you know there are some 40,000 people inside its borders. A considerable prize, especially if it falls without a fight.

***​

In the end, they deliberate on it for four hours. The Fifth spends this time grumbling and shivering in the rain. The guns are arranged for a massed barrage against the city's defending bastions in case they refuse the terms. It would be bloody, but you have no doubt that you would overcome the enemy if it came to that.

But these preparations end up being unnecessary. Colonel Bonnaire returns with the city's representatives to meet you in the no-man's-land.

Their envoys are a weary-eyed elven officer in an uniform still faintly stained with mud and blood alongside a gloomy dwarven burgher with silver chains hung over his broad stony chest, some kind of mark of status.

"General Durand," the elf says, not waiting for Bonnaire to make introductions. His Arnesé is smooth and aristocratic. "I am Colonel Franz Friedrich von Oesch, 90th Elven, Army of the West. We have received and considered your terms of surrender. As the most senior officer of the Royal Nornish Army, together with the chosen representative of the Daurstein Meisterrat, Herr Kastler, I am to relay the following..."

He pauses, seeming to grimace.

"For the most part, we find your terms acceptable. However, we cannot in good conscience allow the King's cannons or the city's defenses to be taken intact by the enemy. As such, I must demand that we be allowed to withdraw the guns," the elf says. "In other regards, we find the terms satisfactory. We would ask one day's time to prepare for a withdrawal from the city. If these points are agreeable to you, we have an accord."

Well, well. You got what you wanted - more or less. You wonder at the conflicts within the city that must have raged on during those four hours. The elven colonel does not look like he wanted this particular duty. The dwarven burgher, on the other hand, looks rather relieved.

Current terms:
-Enemy troops are allowed withdraw with their arms, supplies and cannons without harassment until they reach the Raoille river
-The Fifth Army does not come into the city and any looting and raiding in the local area is curtailed
-The city is not forced to provide supplies, munitions, coin or recruits to the Fifth Army
-The city garrison disarms and is given their liberty
-The city takes no action to bar the Fifth Army's passage or hinder its operations in the area


[] Accept these terms.
This is more or less what you wanted. You accept the terms.
[] Insist on the guns. They are in no position to negotiate. The guns are yours or they will pay for them in blood.
[] Demand the guns are destroyed instead. A compromise solution may satisfy their notions of honor - they'll wreck the guns before they go, preventing either side from making use of them.

***​
 
[] Demand the guns are destroyed instead. A compromise solution may satisfy their notions of honor - they'll wreck the guns before they go, preventing either side from making use of them.

I'm fine with this. It'd be nice to seize the cannons, but hopefully this compromise solution really does work?
 
Frankly, I'm on board with the compromise. Trying to seize the guns was somewhat of a longshot, and we need time without operations more than just raw field artillery. The true constraint is time, not the number of pieces. If we devote ourselves to increasing the artillery arm, we could add 3 regiments, which is more than enough.
 
I'd strongly prefer the guns and I am even more strongly against allowing them to go.

I guess I just need to decide what to push for.
 
To note, we currently have two Field Artillery collections captured from the enemy unmanned. Just those added alone would, I believe, get us to five... which is nothing to sneeze about, and adding more than that assumes more free actions than I think reasonable considering we also probably do need to work on our Drill.
 
Yeah, capturing the guns would be a nice long-term sweetener but our primary concern in the now is keeping them out of von Trotha's hands. Taking them off the board is already a win, and an assault would be a high price to buy them by when we need to be preparing for the upcoming battle.

Pleased to see that the current terms have the city's garrison neutralized instead of marching off with the AotW to join von Trotha - that's a relief.

edit: not to minimize the strategic value of the guns - they'd certainly be more than just a feather in our cap. even if we're not able to deploy them ourselves, wider Arne could probably make good use of them.
 
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[X] Demand the guns are destroyed instead. A compromise solution may satisfy their notions of honor - they'll wreck the guns before they go, preventing either side from making use of them.

This gets us the main strategic objective (denying the Centre the guns) without, hopefully, costing us any blood. I see no reason not to vote for it.
 
Asking for the guns to be destroyed might end up tipping the balance of the argument within the city back in favor of resisting, given there seems to have been quite a heavy debate going on and this might be the compromise made on their side to make surrender palatable to all the stakeholders. It might not, though, and asking to be able to withdraw the guns might be a long-shot attempt to get out of an untenable situation with as much of their force intact as possible. In any case I do think the fact they're willing to entertain this surrender does indicate that they don't really think their position is all that viable, so even if it does tip the scales back to resistance we'll probably be fine-ish.

[X] Demand the guns are destroyed instead
 
So this guy is the most senior officer...

The careless guy from the 90th.

Edit:
Say @Photomajig just for the sake of intel gathering. Was Bonnaire able to get a guestimate on what parts of the Army of the West still exists in an organized fashion during his visit?
 
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[X] Demand the guns are destroyed instead. A compromise solution may satisfy their notions of honor - they'll wreck the guns before they go, preventing either side from making use of them.
 
[X] Demand the guns are destroyed instead. A compromise solution may satisfy their notions of honor - they'll wreck the guns before they go, preventing either side from making use of them.
 
Asking for the guns to be destroyed might end up tipping the balance of the argument within the city back in favor of resisting, given there seems to have been quite a heavy debate going on and this might be the compromise made on their side to make surrender palatable to all the stakeholders. It might not, though, and asking to be able to withdraw the guns might be a long-shot attempt to get out of an untenable situation with as much of their force intact as possible. In any case I do think the fact they're willing to entertain this surrender does indicate that they don't really think their position is all that viable, so even if it does tip the scales back to resistance we'll probably be fine-ish.

[X] Demand the guns are destroyed instead
In the literal sense, they find giving us the guns to be against their honour.
However, we cannot in good conscience allow the King's cannons or the city's defenses to be taken intact by the enemy. As such, I must demand that we be allowed to withdraw the guns," the elf says.
Destroying the guns is perfectly in line with this, and they are starting with the most unreasonable demand just in case the other side is particularly agreeable. No reason to be particularly pessimistic about this option, this is still a fine gain. Reduces the enemy force to a very battered corps rather than an army.
So this guy is the most senior officer...

The careless guy from the 90th.
The most senior officer was always going to be one of the elves due to lifespan and bias. Coinflip between 2 escaped regiments with the one captured, if I'm not mistaken.

Oh, and my vote:
[X] Demand the guns are destroyed instead. A compromise solution may satisfy their notions of honor - they'll wreck the guns before they go, preventing either side from making use of them.
 
[X] Demand the guns are destroyed instead. A compromise solution may satisfy their notions of honor - they'll wreck the guns before they go, preventing either side from making use of them.

This allows us to fulfill von Oesch's requirement of not letting the cannons fall into Aranese hands intact while also fulfilling our goal of not letting the cannons fall into Nornish hands intact.

I am concerned however that he states they can't leave the city's defenses intact for the enemy. @Photomajig Are the Nornish planning on collapsing the city's walls? I feel like that's something we cannot allow.
 
I am concerned however that he states they can't leave the city's defenses intact for the enemy. @Photomajig Are the Nornish planning on collapsing the city's walls? I feel like that's something we cannot allow.
Collapsing the city walls within a day without any preparation would be quite the feat. If they can pull this off, we are clearly dealing with engineering gods. They are just referring to the artillery guns of the bastion forts around the town, not the literal walls.
 
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