Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest

True, but honestly that might be alright? Not that our captures would drop to zero, we'd probably still grab some shiny artillery in every decisive victory if nothing else, but we'd still be getting the base influence gain from victory. And mass captures being less reliable as a source of influence would raise the stakes of the politics side of things and encourage us to throw the lawyers in the river cultivate our relations with political factions in Loutharc.
True...but I think this would be something where we need to set up some new mechanics for what happens in a retreat phase.

Like, going off of my earlier idea, let's say that when a retreat happens, the victor would have a certain amount of "points" that they can use to achieve results during the retreat. Maybe equal to drill, maybe equal to Drill -5 (so under normal circumstances under-drilled armies don't get to pursue the enemy in any organized fashion.)

And those points can be spent on things like getting off a round of attacks on an enemy infantry unit, or capturing enemy guns, or looting the enemy baggage train.
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Another possibility could be to not make additional Influence gains as tied to direct captures. Instead increase the amount of Secondary Objectives we get during a battle and we get awarded Influence for achieving those.

EDIT:
Oh, another revision we might want to consider for cavalry.

IIRC Horses have become a set of Equipment that we need to give to our cavalry. But one thing I noticed in this battle was that our casualties were very disproportionately heavy on our cavalry, but recovering from manpower losses isn't much harder for cavalry as it is for infantry, because Horses are Equipment, not soldiers. Now, a lot of this I think was just because we didn't have enough infantry, a problem that we should be solving this coming March, but still.

I wonder if it would be better to make Horses a Soldier that needs to be combined with Kin manpower to replenish casualties. It would also help with some decisions made in the last March, where cavalrymen cost twice as much for their manpower to acquire as infantrymen. We could give our reserve an equal number of Horses to the amount of Cavalrymen we had, plus a chunk extra from capturing that one unit of enemy hussars and the whole baggage train from von Wachenheim.

EDIT2:
Okay hmm, setting up my proposal for a revision to the retreat mechanics in more detail:

Points
So the idea behind this would be to make Retreat something that's resolved in a single turn and not as complicated as what we have now. You have a set number of Points, and those Points are spent on actions like:
-Attack an enemy unit (probably must be Infantry; Might even be randomly selected): Could be a single attack, could be 3 AP worth of attacks. Probably more damaging than normal melee attacks because you're striking an enemy that's running away rather than trying to defend itself. Enough attacks might cause an enemy unit to scatter or surrender.
-Seize an enemy gun battery: More expensive than attacking other enemy units given the results. Gets an attack off against an enemy artillery unit, giving a chance of seizing the guns. Horse Artillery would be much more difficult to capture.
-Loot Enemy Baggage Train: Yoink a random amount of supplies and munitions from the enemy! Maybe lucky rolls can steal horses or other surplus equipment as well?

Points would be acquired from an army's Discipline score, representing how less disciplined armies are more likely to not retain the coherence needed for organized pursuit. Additional points might be acquired from having uncommited cavalry units (especially light cavalry) that can mount an effective pursuit after the battle because they're still organized and not worn out. Having units in direct contact/melee with the enemy might also give an additional Point for each one, since that makes it harder and messier for the enemy to withdraw. Could see Rapid COs and Loup-Garou units in general also giving Points due to being faster and more able to chase the enemy.

Retreat vs Rout
In this idea, it would probably be important to distinguish between a retreat and an army-wide rout. A retreat might be something where the enemy command, depending on their number of relatively intact and un-routed cavalry units and their own discipline score might be able to mitigate some, or in some cases all of an enemy's Points due to being well-disciplined enough to withdraw in an organized fashion.

So I think this system would need a way to distinguish between a Retreat and a Rout, where the whole enemy army has disintegrated. And for that, I think we can use the Momentum score. Maybe there's a certain level of Momentum where the whole enemy army automatically collapses into a panicked rout. It would probably be a pretty high value, especially for armies whose baseline troops are Regulars or Professionals rather than Trained.

But a Rout means the enemy has no way of reducing the enemy Points value, which means they can get pretty badly mauled in the retreat. This encourages enemy forces to cut their losses early rather than gambling and possibly losing most of their army.
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@Photomajig Do you have any thoughts on this? Apologies if it's presumptuous, but it's a brainworm that got in my head and I wanted to suggest for the purpose of making the whole retreat system simpler.
 
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How Durand's political star after this battle will compare to the star of General Guizot and General De Montelivet? I think Guizot will probably need fresh victories against the Herculian Army to maintain his star in the future, but Angilmont was a bigger battle than the battles we have fought so far. De Montelivet may already see Durand as a potential rival as she seeks to outdo us in glory according to Guillory. At this point, she has already defeated the field army of Grand Duchy of Musselmond-Gelle and has or will soon force the Duchy to surrender. Defeating a whole state will certainly be good for De Montelivet's record but Musselmond-Gelle didn't have the greatest military reputation, so I am not sure how it will look in comparison to Durand's recent record.

As expected, the Consulars are seeking to groom De Guerchy as a military leader for their cause. However, his talents and career may be completely wasted in Saint-Hippolyte if that island is Fantasy!Haiti as many readers suspect. It may be one less potential headache for Durand in the future

I wonder if we will have the time to travel to Loutharc to make in-person connections with the revolutionary leadership and to find our own Josephine or will we have to remain with the army to ensure that it will be prepared to face Norn's more professional armies and veteran generals?
 
How Durand's political star after this battle will compare to the star of General Guizot and General De Montelivet? I think Guizot will probably need fresh victories against the Herculian Army to maintain his star in the future, but Angilmont was a bigger battle than the battles we have fought so far. De Montelivet may already see Durand as a potential rival as she seeks to outdo us in glory according to Guillory. At this point, she has already defeated the field army of Grand Duchy of Musselmond-Gelle and has or will soon force the Duchy to surrender. Defeating a whole state will certainly be good for De Montelivet's record but Musselmond-Gelle didn't have the greatest military reputation, so I am not sure how it will look in comparison to Durand's recent record.

As expected, the Consulars are seeking to groom De Guerchy as a military leader for their cause. However, his talents and career may be completely wasted in Saint-Hippolyte if that island is Fantasy!Haiti as many readers suspect. It may be one less potential headache for Durand in the future

I wonder if we will have the time to travel to Loutharc to make in-person connections with the revolutionary leadership and to find our own Josephine or will we have to remain with the army to ensure that it will be prepared to face Norn's more professional armies and veteran generals?

I think it's far more likely that Guizot's star is falling more because he's associated with the Constitutionalist cause as an old fusspot.

Now, if he was smart he'd shift towards a more Consular point of view, but who knows.

We've worked with Motelivet, so I don't think our relations with her are that bad unless she resents what we did regarding the letter.

As for the chance of traveling back to the capital? Not a fucking chance, we need to continue to win victories and it'd frankly be fatal to her reputation if she was away from her army in the middle of an ongoing campaign... even if nothing happened. However, Durand might be wise to send letters in the summer, see what the Levelers and Militarists are up to for the fall election.
 
We should have a significant amount of time next March before the main Nornish army arrives. Probably going to expend much of our Influence on getting more soldiers with some experience while they're cheap. We have bucketloads of equipment, we just need men to use them.
 
From what we know Guizot is also very much an old guard general. His defeat of the royalists in the prologue rested very much on brute frontal attacks by his Hobgoblin assault units. Something which combined with his Constitutionalist won't win him much favor.

I also doubt that Montelivet sees us as much as a rival as Guillory portraits. The man is a bit of a flamboyant dandy and hasn't even spoken to her. If Montelivet has broken the not!Dutch and hears that we're tying down the Nornish field armies then the most strategically sound move is to knock Musselmond-Gelle out of the war, then strike at Norn from the west. Or failing that form up on our left wing after M-G is beaten.

Militarily we should probably secure the south bank of the Raoille and do some army management with all the gear we've captured. If we're feeling particularly aggressive and willing to game the assembly's orders we could order some "recon in force" to be done on the other side of the river. Politically I feel we should maybe try to earn some brownie points with the Consulars. Even if people favor the Liberationists, being on good terms with all republican factions is valuable. Especially if the lack of military crisis due to our successes means that politics will radicalize less.
 
I'm not necessarily against building up a few ties to the Consulars, but I do worry that trying to be all things to all people will prove to be easier said than done.

I'd say I'm also against any such "recon in force" as an overreach that ricks getting caught out. It's better to consolidate our gains and prepare for their major offensives against us.
 
Yeah, actions spent launching "recon in force" are actions I think would be better spent actively preparing for the real Nornish army to come along.
 
Militarily we should probably secure the south bank of the Raoille and do some army management with all the gear we've captured. If we're feeling particularly aggressive and willing to game the assembly's orders we could order some "recon in force" to be done on the other side of the river. Politically I feel we should maybe try to earn some brownie points with the Consulars. Even if people favor the Liberationists, being on good terms with all republican factions is valuable. Especially if the lack of military crisis due to our successes means that politics will radicalize less.
Militarily: Our forces are woefully understrength for offensive operations. A third of our infantry consists of skirmishers, our artillery arsenal and cavalry are probably fairly lackluster compared to Norn's proper armies and we are reliant on the allied 6th, who move at a snails pace. Our victories against Norn consisted of staying on the defensive, and capitalizing on critical mistakes of theirs via luck or one really unconventional move. Our reserves are quite thin and our drill is just average. Given we are going against forces with similar morale and a much more experienced artillery corps, I really can't overstate how risky attacking Norn across a River would be, I don't know how one could theoretically make a winning plan to win against an experienced army with what wee have for now. This is just inviting military disaster, we shouldn't take the threat lightly.

Honestly, a lot of our strength buildup is going to depend on the army actions we get, but it's unlikely we can pull of an offensive battle against a good enemy general outside the open field. We really shouldn't push our luck there.
 
I'd say I'm also against any such "recon in force" as an overreach that ricks getting caught out. It's better to consolidate our gains and prepare for their major offensives against us.
To clarify. I'm not proposing anything as serious as laying siege to Engelsburg or something. More akin to securing crossings, mapping out terrain, threatening the Waldpfad and its junction, foraging/raiding on the enemy side of the river to deny them easy supplies.

We got a great deal of momentum behind us and I'd hate to just throw away the initiative we've gained with our double victories by just sitting on our side of the river. Waiting for the next bunch of enemy armies to arrive.
 
Although, we might have just taken out a big chunk of Norn's actually Good artillery corps here.

The description of Norn's general doctrine focused almost entirely on the infantry, mentioned cavalry were secondary at best, and didn't mention artillery at all. Norn's overall doctrine seems infantry-focused rather than putting any particular emphasis on artillery.

And given how most Provincial Army units specified location of origin except the artillery, I think the artillery units that weren't the Volunteer units were regular Nornish army units assigned to the Provincial Armies. In which case, given von Trotha's focus, we might be taking out a very significant chunk of Norn's actually experienced artillery units here.

Not all of them for sure, but I do expect the Nornish regular army to be much more infantry-centric than cavalry or artillery (though they'll probably still have the Arnese emigres for a couple of units of quality cavalry.)
 
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Given we are going against forces with similar morale and a much more experienced artillery corps, I really can't overstate how risky attacking Norn across a River would be, I don't know how one could theoretically make a winning plan to win against an experienced army with what wee have for now. This is just inviting military disaster, we shouldn't take the threat lightly.

Honestly, a lot of our strength buildup is going to depend on the army actions we get, but it's unlikely we can pull of an offensive battle against a good enemy general outside the open field. We really shouldn't push our luck there.

This bit feels a little bit dubious. Your claim is that actually all of the Norn armies have a Morale of 9 or 10 when Norn's thing is, "Morale's great but Drill is better."
 
This bit feels a little bit dubious. Your claim is that actually all of the Norn armies have a Morale of 9 or 10 when Norn's thing is, "Morale's great but Drill is better."
Sorry, I meant to say higher morale modifier (bonus/malus to stress checks) not army morale. My point was that we won against Trotha due to having a higher morale modifier, when we went against troops fresh of a victory. The professional core of Norn probably has higher drill than the provincial armies, and more of a backbone. With the dwarven units, 1-2 points of additional drill can make a lot of difference and their baseline is probably higher. So in the infantry on infantry fights, we probably will have a much harder time; which in turn makes the battles tougher.
 
To clarify. I'm not proposing anything as serious as laying siege to Engelsburg or something. More akin to securing crossings, mapping out terrain, threatening the Waldpfad and its junction, foraging/raiding on the enemy side of the river to deny them easy supplies.

We got a great deal of momentum behind us and I'd hate to just throw away the initiative we've gained with our double victories by just sitting on our side of the river. Waiting for the next bunch of enemy armies to arrive.
Yeah, I've been considering a move like this but even more ambitious. It's a little wild but I can see the case for it. The concern I have with holding the south bank is that it's a long line to cover with not a lot of troops. We might have to split our two armies again so that someone can cover the western crossings that von Trotha tried to use earlier, which would mean leaving Guillory to guard the bridge alone - and even if he is defending a fortified crossing, I'm skittish about leaving an army that raw to fight alone.

On the other hand, crossing the Raoille in force purely to secure a bridgehead puts Norn in a very uncomfortable position. The river's still an obstacle for them but it isn't for us. It'd take a long time to outflank us through alternative crossings, and whatever blocking force they'd leave in front of us doesn't have a river to defend it from attack while the rest of the army's elsewhere. The only way to avoid risking defeat in detail (assuming they don't have a massively massively superior force in which case any plan transitions to 'run towards Antreville, write many letters demanding reinforcements' :V) would be a direct assault, but if we're just defending a small bridgehead there's no real way for them to maneuver around any fortifications that we've built.

Definitely not a risk-free move but it'd allow us to force a battle with force concentration and prepared ground - and have a bridgehead over the Raoille for future operations if successful - with only the slight risk of total and utter force destruction. :)
 
The description of Norn's general doctrine focused almost entirely on the infantry, mentioned cavalry were secondary at best, and didn't mention artillery at all. Norn's overall doctrine seems infantry-focused rather than putting any particular emphasis on artillery
That certainly fits Trotha's grousing:

"Rough country, ill-suited, some one thousand paces, damned pieces won't elevate further, and who's to blame for that, no glory for the artillery, not in this Kingdom, no, sir..."

That said, I'm not sure we can assume we've taken out that big a chunk yet. Infantry-centric Nornish armies make sense, but I don't see why they wouldn't have at least a few batteries to go with them, plus a few regiments of cavalry - even if they probably are only Trained.
 
That said, I'm not sure we can assume we've taken out that big a chunk yet. Infantry-centric Nornish armies make sense, but I don't see why they wouldn't have at least a few batteries to go with them, plus a few regiments of cavalry - even if they probably are only Trained.
I definitely don't expect them to have no artillery, but we probably won't get the sheer amount (certainly not the amount relative to the size of the rest of the army), and probably not quite sso many Experienced and Professionals (hopefully.)
 
Also, @Photomajig , what types of Kin would her Adjutants be? Would any be Elves, or is the fact that they're nobles mean that wouldn't make sense? I'm trying to put together a scene, so information is appreciated.
 
I'm also unsure about the difference in quality of the eastern field armies when compared by the western ones we just faced. Yes. Norn is noted to have one of the best professional armies in the realms. But it also notes that it is declining, with it's last major reforms being at a minimum thirty years ago. With a good possibility of it being even longer ago.

Sure. It has good rep and some very scary elite regiments and the eastern armies will be better. But I very much doubt they're going to drown us in a tide of professional, elite and veteran units. They're the Prussia expy and the Prussian army wasn't in that good of a state at the start of the revolution. If it's anything like Old Fritz's army then it is actually pretty brittle.

Granted, this might just be me forgetting stuff from before the haitus.
 
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Yeah, this was the description of it:
The military reforms of Konrad I and Athawulf I Hermann are thought to be behind this rapid rise in power, allowing the small but disciplined Nornish army to defeat much larger feudal hosts raised by its enemies. The state of this army had declined in the aftermath of the War of the Grand Alliance as complacency and mismanagement set in, but its reputation was still one of the finest in all the realms.
"Complacency and mismanagement" is something I wonder how it will be shown. It's another reason I feel the main Nornish army will be very infantry-heavy. It would be another example of Norn fighting, doctrinally and organizationally, with the same army that fought the War of the Grand Alliance.

Which might mean things like not much, if anything in the way of more exotic types of artillery like Siege and Horse. Von Trotha had a single unit of Horse Artillery, but if Norn in general hasn't been branching out into fields like that the main army might be limited to just Field Artillery.

We can probably expect a standard infantry XP level of Regular rather than Trained though, at least that's what I'd expect. Not a massive horde of Professionals, but Regular seems right for the proper Nornish army that has been in some battles, while Trained seems to mostly be units that were just raised and organized.

Sidenote: If we manage to take out the entire Nornish artillery park, then Norn will have lost 9 batteries of Field Artillery over the course of the campaign (11 if you count the two that were probably Nornish origin given to the Emigre army.)

von Wachenheim had 3 batteries, 2 regular army 1 volunteer. We took out the volunteers and the regular army units destroyed their guns as part of the surrender of Daurstein. Here von Trotha has 6 batteries of Field Artillery (and 1 Horse Artillery): 5 from the regular army (1 being composed of artillerists from von Wachenheim's force, the Prov. Elven Artillery), and 1 volunteer. 9 batteries of Field Artillery would be at least a few dozen guns being lost.
 
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It's small size should also be noted. Put together the armies of the West and Center were made up out of some 25,000 ~ 30,000 men if you include the baggage train.

That's a decent hit in an army that might only total between 100,000 and 120,000 men. A force that also needs to occupy not!Poland, garrison its own lands, and send an force to deal with de Montelivet. The latter whom actually had a professional army to begin with. 15,000 ~ 20,000 men stuck in Vechia. Another 15,000 ~ 20,000 stuck in the Nornish heartlands (called out as having a decent amount of unrest at the moment), another 15,000 ~ 20,000 marching to M-G's aid.

Norn may only have two or three professional armies available to oppose us here in the center.
 
I hadn't really thought about it but yeah, von Trotha's artillery focus is an exception for Norn, not the rule. More use of artillery would make sense for a passive doctrine, but their defensiveness isn't really 'passive'. Like the Prussians, it's about winning battles by maneuver and strong positioning and infantry fire and such.

but Nornish armies are both exceedingly resilient and capable of complex battlefield maneuvers. On campaign, this shows itself in rapid advances and surprising movements over considerable distance.

It'd make sense for a large artillery park to be seen as 'dead weight', too slow to move with the infantry on the battlefield and a drag on the army's overall mobility on campaign. They might've made some investments in horse artillery or other sorts of lighter guns in places, but it seems like there hasn't been a sweeping overhaul.

It does seem like artillery is generally pretty neglected across the board, not just by Arné. Current field artillery seems to have emerged in the last 50ish years (it was novel around Basly) as a step away from the really massive siege guns and towards something better suited to maneuver warfare, but that transformation is sort of only half-finished. They might be more mobile on campaign but they're not fast, and they're pretty static on the battlefield.

The idea of sponsoring artillery innovations was mentioned at some point, and whenever we can get some significant downtime I'm thinking there's an opportunity here to burn some influence finding someone to Gribeauval the field artillery on our behalf. Or work on it ourselves, even. It feels like it'd be very in character for Durand to unwind and destress by designing a new gun carriage that doesn't suck quite so bad for the gunners :V

But yeah, artillery being so neglected for so long means that a reform by someone knowledgeable could probably find major weight savings, and maybe cost savings too. It'd be a long-term investment, but bumping up artillery movement could be a solid boost both tactically and on the campaign map.
 
First of all, I really understand the desire to skip the retreat phase completely. It's not my favourite thing either, as you said it does feel non-immersive and odd.

That said, I worry that skipping this phase might create new types of salt, if/when the retreat starts and enemy units we feel we should have been able to capture just suddenly teleport away. In this battle, for instance, it would feel unimmersive if von Trotha's artillery in the center could just walz away with no issues without abandoning their guns.


Or hmm, ok. So we would skip the separate Retreat Phase, but would instead have the enemy army have to retreat to the edge of the map, following the normal battle rules, before the auto-retreat happens?

I think this would be a good way to do it, with some other minor tweaks. Here are some thoughts on what I think the issue with the current system is and how to fix them:

- Forcing a surrender feels too easy, in my view. This is part of the blocking unit problem discussed in the thread previously; if 500 cavalry are blocking the retreat of 3000 infantry, why would these infantry surrender rather than desperately attack the cavalry? I'd imagine this is one big reason why cavalry seldom did long pursuits of enemy armies: they risk being attacked and killed in the chaotic melee which would happen. "A cornered beast fights harder" and so on. To fix this, I would either remove Surrender mechanics completely and have those happen in the aftermath, or requiring at least 3 blocking jnits to be present. A single blocking units just gets attacked or bypassed.
- An Order to Artillery Crews to abandon/destroy their guns and run away (with much increased movement speed). Looking at the current map, I think Von Trotha could save many of his crews, but not his guns. This also became relevant to us this battle when the 10th was attacled.
- Related to this, a Scattering mechanic. The reason whole Units seldom surrendered is also that they seldom remained cohesive units, instead the men would break formation and run for their lives. While individuals may surrender or be cut down, just as many could escape in smaller groups that are not worth chasing down. And when it comes to infantry and artillery, men running in disarray should move much faster than men marching in formation. Of course, a Scattered Unit would leave behind any heavy equipment they have, such as cannons.

Taken together, these changes would work together to justify essentially skipping the retreat phase. If surrenders are much harder to force and Routing Units can attack units blocking them, chasing Routing enemies becomes more risky and harder to justify. And if enemy Units tend to Scatter (instantly leaving the battle) and enemy artillery crews can spike their guns and run, it makes much more sense for the Retreat phase to be either skipped or resolved very quickly.

An example: with the current situation and mechanics like that, we could use our cavalry to maybe capture 1 or 2 units, no more. The rest would Scatter while the most exposed artillery units would have to leave their artillery behind, which sounds reasonable to me.

Honestly, what I kind of am advocating for here is basically to change the rules to make retreats much faster and chasing down enemies much less effective, then use that as a justification to pretty much skip the separate Retreat phase. Which, I guess, may be overcomplicating things? But personally, I like the split between gameplay and story to be as unobtrusive as possible, and rules like these would make the faster retreats "make sense".

I like many of these suggestions. I'll collect my thoughts and consider them in detail later today.

Maybe we could have a retreat systems that for every full AP of movement used a die is rolled for casualties. Maybe a die could be added if the unit is in melee or routing, and if enemy units are in the way of retreat, an extra d50 or something casualties is rolled per enemy unit. At the end, some die are rolled to convert some casualties to surrenders. And surrenders are decided by the QM. Or maybe surrenders could be determined by morale checks and stress, a unit with no non-routed friends with 30+ stress, and 5 or lower on a melee morale check would make that unit surrender.

And maybe as a side edition, melee attacks on routed unit could have more wounding?

This sounds a bit more complicated than I'd like. I'll have a think on it, thank you for the suggestions!

Melee attacks on Routed Units already don't have to contend with the opposing Unit's XP modifier applying as a penalty to the roll, so there's already an advantage.

True...but I think this would be something where we need to set up some new mechanics for what happens in a retreat phase.

Like, going off of my earlier idea, let's say that when a retreat happens, the victor would have a certain amount of "points" that they can use to achieve results during the retreat. Maybe equal to drill, maybe equal to Drill -5 (so under normal circumstances under-drilled armies don't get to pursue the enemy in any organized fashion.)

And those points can be spent on things like getting off a round of attacks on an enemy infantry unit, or capturing enemy guns, or looting the enemy baggage train.
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Another possibility could be to not make additional Influence gains as tied to direct captures. Instead increase the amount of Secondary Objectives we get during a battle and we get awarded Influence for achieving those.

EDIT:
Oh, another revision we might want to consider for cavalry.

IIRC Horses have become a set of Equipment that we need to give to our cavalry. But one thing I noticed in this battle was that our casualties were very disproportionately heavy on our cavalry, but recovering from manpower losses isn't much harder for cavalry as it is for infantry, because Horses are Equipment, not soldiers. Now, a lot of this I think was just because we didn't have enough infantry, a problem that we should be solving this coming March, but still.

I wonder if it would be better to make Horses a Soldier that needs to be combined with Kin manpower to replenish casualties. It would also help with some decisions made in the last March, where cavalrymen cost twice as much for their manpower to acquire as infantrymen. We could give our reserve an equal number of Horses to the amount of Cavalrymen we had, plus a chunk extra from capturing that one unit of enemy hussars and the whole baggage train from von Wachenheim.

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Okay hmm, setting up my proposal for a revision to the retreat mechanics in more detail:

Points
So the idea behind this would be to make Retreat something that's resolved in a single turn and not as complicated as what we have now. You have a set number of Points, and those Points are spent on actions like:
-Attack an enemy unit (probably must be Infantry; Might even be randomly selected): Could be a single attack, could be 3 AP worth of attacks. Probably more damaging than normal melee attacks because you're striking an enemy that's running away rather than trying to defend itself. Enough attacks might cause an enemy unit to scatter or surrender.
-Seize an enemy gun battery: More expensive than attacking other enemy units given the results. Gets an attack off against an enemy artillery unit, giving a chance of seizing the guns. Horse Artillery would be much more difficult to capture.
-Loot Enemy Baggage Train: Yoink a random amount of supplies and munitions from the enemy! Maybe lucky rolls can steal horses or other surplus equipment as well?

Points would be acquired from an army's Discipline score, representing how less disciplined armies are more likely to not retain the coherence needed for organized pursuit. Additional points might be acquired from having uncommited cavalry units (especially light cavalry) that can mount an effective pursuit after the battle because they're still organized and not worn out. Having units in direct contact/melee with the enemy might also give an additional Point for each one, since that makes it harder and messier for the enemy to withdraw.

Retreat vs Rout
In this idea, it would probably be important to distinguish between a retreat and an army-wide rout. A retreat might be something where the enemy command, depending on their number of relatively intact and un-routed cavalry units and their own discipline score might be able to mitigate some, or in some cases all of an enemy's Points due to being well-disciplined enough to withdraw in an organized fashion.

So I think this system would need a way to distinguish between a Retreat and a Rout, where the whole enemy army has disintegrated. And for that, I think we can use the Momentum score. Maybe there's a certain level of Momentum where the whole enemy army automatically collapses into a panicked rout. It would probably be a pretty high value, especially for armies whose baseline troops are Regulars or Professionals rather than Trained.

But a Rout means the enemy has no way of reducing the enemy Points value, which means they can get pretty badly mauled in the retreat. This encourages enemy forces to cut their losses early rather than gambling and possibly losing most of their army.
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@Photomajig Do you have any thoughts on this? Apologies if it's presumptuous, but it's a brainworm that got in my head and I wanted to suggest for the purpose of making the whole retreat system simpler.

No apologies needed. Mechanics feedback is much appreciated.

I am not feeling this kind of points system, unfortunately. I don't think it would make things simpler, and it would introduce an odd new kind of mechanical space that would not tie very well to the actual map battle.

Question, @Photomajig , was Durand's (nominal) commanding officer killed in the storm of '31 that killed her entire unit?

Yes, but naturally they came back. Colonel Simon Albert de Poltarc, Baron de Grifonne, was never very interested in politics, but the Revolution liberated him from having to cosplay a military career to maintain his status. So he promptly retired to attend to gardening, land speculation and managing a modestly-sized business (a career path previously barred for him). Durand hasn't heard of him since.

Also, @Photomajig , what types of Kin would her Adjutants be? Would any be Elves, or is the fact that they're nobles mean that wouldn't make sense? I'm trying to put together a scene, so information is appreciated.

They could be of any Kin. I expect Durand might favor hobs slightly, but there'd no doubt be elves, humans and halflings at least. The legacy of the old regime means that most trained officers are still elves, so they are likely to make up a sizeable chunk of it.
 
Also, @Photomajig , what types of Kin would her Adjutants be? Would any be Elves, or is the fact that they're nobles mean that wouldn't make sense? I'm trying to put together a scene, so information is appreciated.
I think Durand might be an aspirational figure even for many elves.

The revolution cleared away a lot of dead wood from upper ranks and means plenty of room for advancement on merit, and the war means more still (junior officers hoping for a sickly season or a bloody etc.).

Previously positions in a general's staff would probably be reserved for elves of particularly high status and most elves would never get a sniff at it, but now ability carries more weight than social rank and ancient lineage (being too blue-blooded might even be counterproductive, unless that's what you meant?).

For a revolutionary she's a symbol, and for a conservative able to hold their nose she's an opportunity.

Dunno if this is coherent.
 
Also, along the lines of gathering up information for an omake, I also want to ask @Photomajig , are there any kinds of Kin that are co-fertile? I think we'd know if "Half-elves" as it were existed, but just in general, for instance, could Granger have had children with his Hobgoblin wife? Etc, etc.

I'm asking for petty, throw away details, a single possible line in the omake I started writing yesterday but am still waiting on your answers to get finished.
 
So, with the general discussion on Norn: I think it's important that they are rather different from OTL Prussia in terms of geostrategic role. Given the consolidation of different regions, they are more similar to the Prussia of the 1850s-1860s, an upcoming great power with plenty of consolidated territory, a well-functioning military and a solid economic foundation. This is more similar to the Prussia after the Bruderkrieg against Austria. They have more more of economy, and their standing arm was noted for being highly disciplined and meritocratic. Considering they are the hegemon of the Golden realms, they army probably worked quite well. They have the economic strength to support an elite army with well-picked officers and won wars by quality.

In terms of tactics: I would actually expect them to pack a decent amount of artillery into their armies, considering their plan against Arné generally consisted of "form a strong defensive line and wait for Arné to blindly charge your ranks". The battle against Arné, according to nearly every bit of Nornish experience against them involves expecting a charge. Wachenheim continued expecting a charge until the end, Trotha attempted to bait one out of us. The normal Arnése general is almost assured to charge according to what they know, and they pick their troops based on an ability to withstand charges. For a defensive battle, artillery makes a lot of sense. Not only does fire superiority allowing you to pressure your enemy to attack too early, it also allows you to soften their approach. Now, Norn isn't renowed for having a strong artillery arm, but they likely expect to operate tactically defensively despite being operationally on the attack and trying to take territory. I would certainly pack plenty of artillery into my army.

I mean, while Norn has been complacent Arnése armies were in the gutter, given the mass layoffs of officers during the royal bankruptcy. We are only now getting to a point where our army actually kind of holds up during the defensive, and even then our reserves have been pretty for thin for doing things outside of holding a position. While Norn will send a limited number of armies in all likelyhood (complacency plus some degree of neglect), I expect those armies to be very tough to decisively beat. Trotha's dwarves were mostly shattered thanks to one absolutely wild manevour he didn't see coming and expending them on two failed attacks. This was with really average stats of a provincial army (which are noted for almost never achieving the high standards of Norn's professional), so beating an experienced army that is just coming out of war victory is going to be tough and unpleasent. Their drill will probably be high, their rank better than ours and we won't have the advantage of coming fresh from a decisive victory when we go up against them (morale will probably drop a bit over the next 2 weeks, just due to the afterglow waning somewhat).

Now, this does also have some advantages: Higher XP does mean we get more momentum from routing troops, which can be useful. And those are less replaceable, meaning the enemy has to make stronger decisions between a probing and a genuine attack, which means we can infer more about their moves. But this battle would have probably turned into a defeat if we didn't win melee engagements by default, just on account of having stronger morale modifiers (5-8 compared to their flat +1 on average, which meant we could take 2 more checks than them). The enemy commanders will also have more insight, rather than being the provincial commanders used to doing things by the book. They have their weaknesses, but I expect much tougher battles ahead. My estimate of the relative strength will also change, largely based on the number of army actions we get. With the 3 before the battle, winning anything is going to be tremendously difficult.
 
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