Alt History ideas, rec and general discussion thread
- Thread starter Teen Spirit
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ExNihilo
SPACE!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, you can always name it after a specific movement or thinker heavily involved. Maybe it's called Diggerite, or Proudhonism, or whatever started/popularized it in your timeline.
"Lordlessness" if there is no Latin vocabulary in this ATL
Confederate General Robert E. Lee - in averagely good health until the end - has a life span in length of years and days that are the same as Dame Elizabeth Couchman.
Any interesting changes to the United States and the globe?
Any interesting changes to the United States and the globe?
Neal Caffrey
Watch White Collar.
- Location
- Colombia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean it would be pretty interesting how he interacts politically with the lost cause movement and if he would have any effect in US military thinking in the long term, hell if you really want to be weird he might even have a role in the Spanish American war which would also be interesting
as i said, Dame Elizabeth Couchman lived to be 106 and a half - and giving the Confederate General. Robert E. Lee that same length of days in average good physical and mental state might lead to some very interesting times for the USA and the world.
- Location
- United Kingdom
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Why? So there's one more racist old twat living in a house built by slavery in a state built by slavery after fighting a war based on slavery whilst insisting it wasn't about slavery and he for sure 100% was opposed to the slavery he practiced?
What difference does that make? Robert E Lee was not, in fact, a supremely exceptional man or general.
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Neither was Malcolm X but people also worship him.
Scrivener
The Femme In Yellow
- Location
- Don't Leave Me Here You Bastards
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They
why are we comparing Malcom X, an actual civil rights defender, to a general who fought to defend the Confederacy and by extension it's bloodsoaked institution of slavery. this is the shittiest argument I have ever seen on this side of 2023
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prometheus110
Join Cayman-Global & be part of the 1E-9 percent!
- Location
- La Ballena City Raft
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's the dumbest fucking comparison I've seen this decade, Jesus Christ.
- Location
- The observable universe
Unlike Lee, Malcolm X actually did stuff that were worthwhile and admirable.
Scrivener
The Femme In Yellow
- Location
- Don't Leave Me Here You Bastards
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They
In the meantime, as this is the AH recommendation thread, I would like to plug the Redux (rewritten) version of What Madness Is This?, a timeline that was originally written in 2013 and began the process of rewriting in 2018. It's a fun darkly comedic pulpy timeline that knows that it's pulp and leans hard into it while maintaining a sense of plausibility while also not dumping immense amounts of grimderp on the reader.
The basic premise is that through a number of PODs (a random new family is born in Puritan-era colonial America, King George III's madness is much worse and inheritable, etc) the Enlightenment is strangled in the crib by the collapse of the USA under the Articles of Confederation (due to the elitist Federalist Party partaking in ballot stuffing) and the rise of Napoleon, and because of this revolutionary liberalism (and thus future developments like socialism and communism) is driven deep, deep underground. The world from there begins its downward spiral.
The basic premise is that through a number of PODs (a random new family is born in Puritan-era colonial America, King George III's madness is much worse and inheritable, etc) the Enlightenment is strangled in the crib by the collapse of the USA under the Articles of Confederation (due to the elitist Federalist Party partaking in ballot stuffing) and the rise of Napoleon, and because of this revolutionary liberalism (and thus future developments like socialism and communism) is driven deep, deep underground. The world from there begins its downward spiral.
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Rule 3: Do not insult other users.
re-quoting it here in case dasherdancer does his usual "spouts apocalyptically bigoted shit, doubles down and then edits their posts to try and avoid getting banned" schtickdasherdancer said:
also you're the kind of person who would compare the french resistance to like the fuckin ss u malignant loser
bookwyrm
Doom of Public Libraries
- Location
- Wichita, Kansas
Insofar as Lee was less openly and actively warring against Reconstruction, with guns as with the Redshirts and White League or with the pen as of all his fellow Confederate generals like Jubal Early, Lee surviving longer might weaken the development of the Lost Cause a bit out of propriety's sake as to not just immediately lie about all his shit to turn him into a martyred saint while he's standing right there. But that is the best that can be said about the man, that he might not prove to be as big an obstacle to Reconstruction as the rest of his class and friendship circle, Lee was never ever ever going to be even one of the still quite racist "Readjusters", let alone an again still racist Scalawag defecting to Lincoln's Republicans like Longstreet.
And at worst? A Lee living long enough to see the subjugation of nascent black politics and instituting of Jim Crow might just allow himself to be persuaded to let freaks like Early a little off the leash to start constructing the Lost Cause mythos, regardless.
Confederates are, by and large, evil fuckers.
And at worst? A Lee living long enough to see the subjugation of nascent black politics and instituting of Jim Crow might just allow himself to be persuaded to let freaks like Early a little off the leash to start constructing the Lost Cause mythos, regardless.
Confederates are, by and large, evil fuckers.
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King Washington
Semi-Depressed Lurker
- Location
- Indiana
Clearly Robert E Lee, literal slaver war criminal, and Malcolm X, Civil Rights Leader and man who got murdered because he rejected the teachings of the deranged cult he used to belong to, are equivalent.
thePUNisher
Unbothered. Moisturized. Happy. In My Lane
- Location
- Brazil
Racist Slaver = One of the founders of the Civil Rights Movement sure is a take.
- Location
- The Final Frontier
Lee himself was pretty content removed from public life; he got in some fights with other confederates about historical minutia - he was very pissed about Jackson getting the credit for Chancellorsville - but not anything that matters. I don't see the world changing.
I do have a partially written RPG scenario where he becomes a vampire, though. After all, Longstreet - now an enemy of his! - went over to the Ottoman Empire, and they famously fought Dracula.
I do have a partially written RPG scenario where he becomes a vampire, though. After all, Longstreet - now an enemy of his! - went over to the Ottoman Empire, and they famously fought Dracula.
Sandy River DL
(Verified Destroyer Leader)
- Location
- Lake Michigan
- Pronouns
- Her/She
Lincoln surviving the assassination would be much more interesting than Lee living longer. Unless the Lee in question is Admiral Lee of WW2 fame instead of the Confederate General. Because Willis A. Lee Jr. not dying of a heart attack in mid 1945 would have some potentially very interesting effects on history. Well, naval history specifically.
my point was about cult of personality and defence of extremism not bigotry - Malcolm X was an extremist in his field as Lee was a racist extremist.
The cult of personality that still clings around Malcolm and the cult around Lee is what i was comparatively talking about. No one should justify personality cults, no matter who they are about. FOR FUCK'S SAKE!
the Palestinian cause = leadership tells its people in Arabic "from the River to the Sea" and supports the explusion or murder of the Israeli Jewish population and "honor killings" of LGBTI and women and atheists and apostates. Yeah, I'm not the bigot in opposing this cause.
ExNihilo
SPACE!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh no, he's an extremist. Obviously that makes him, someone fighting for a good cause, the same as an extremist who fought for literal slavery. Actually, he made a good point about this himself.
"I don't believe in any form of unjustified extremism! But when a man is exercising extremism — a human being is exercising extremism — in defense of liberty for human beings it's no vice, and when one is moderate in the pursuit of justice for human beings I say he is a sinner."
-Oxford Union Debate (December 3, 1964)
And a cult of personality isn't the same thing as appreciating someone who made major contributions to a good cause. We can call Lincoln the best president and praise it's good and not be a cult of personality, at least in my view.
"I don't believe in any form of unjustified extremism! But when a man is exercising extremism — a human being is exercising extremism — in defense of liberty for human beings it's no vice, and when one is moderate in the pursuit of justice for human beings I say he is a sinner."
-Oxford Union Debate (December 3, 1964)
And a cult of personality isn't the same thing as appreciating someone who made major contributions to a good cause. We can call Lincoln the best president and praise it's good and not be a cult of personality, at least in my view.
FruitSyrup
Sweeter than honey~
- Location
- United Kingom
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'd call Malcom X a radical over an extremist; someone dedicated to addressing the root cause of the issue over trying solutions that only address the symptoms and not the causes.