Alt History ideas, rec and general discussion thread
- Thread starter Teen Spirit
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- Location
- The Final Frontier
No, because you can be impeached for something that isn't a crime.
I'd say 1976 for sure, Ford had both people pissed off about Watergate and people pissed that his pardoning of Nixon was an admission of guilt, so the math works. As for 1988 it depends on what he'd have done in the intervening time. Absolutely hammering on Bush for the Contras and other CIA deepstate boondoggles definitely could've worked. It elides his own family's complicity in several of those incidents but I still see a path forward. More interesting question: does he double down on Israel or pull back?
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ASB idea: Atlantis, but it's in every place that people claim Atlantis was, so you have one on Thera, one in the Atlantic, one in the Sahara, one in Antarctica, just going down the wikipedia list of atlantis locations and saying "yes" to all of them and seeing what chaos ensues when you have like 50 abnormally advanced civilizations kicking around while the rest of the world is still figuring out bronze.
How hard could the Americans have yanked the leash on Israel after the Liberty incident?
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They didn't OTL so the divergence would have to be beforehand.
I mean, based on its proximity to the end of the 6 day war I assume that even had the Americans intended to bring the pain they wouldn't have their ducks lined by before the end of the war; at which I assume the minimum response from Johnson would the "Hahaha No Eshkol. get the fuck back behind the Green Line now. or else"?
I'd imagine sending the Israeli navy to the bottom of the Mediterranean might alarm other American allies though?
I'd imagine sending the Israeli navy to the bottom of the Mediterranean might alarm other American allies though?
Friendly reminder that right after the war Israel actually did offer to return everything but East Jerusalem in exchange for peace. The Arab countries didn't accept that offer and instead released the Khartoum Resolution, which called for no peace, negotiations, or recognition of Israel. The Arabs held firm to the Resolution, also known as the Three Noes of Khartoum, for well over a decade and it was only broken in 1979, when Egypt recognized Israel and negotiated peace and the return of the Sinai Peninsula.
- Location
- The Final Frontier
And, whatever else you think about Israel, it does appear that the Liberty Incident was just a tragic accident, cause by mistakes and exhaustion. Which does happen in wartime. There's plenty of reason to believe the Israelis realized it was American sooner then reported. But all of the liberty incident conspiracy theories are just that.
King Washington
Semi-Depressed Lurker
- Location
- Indiana
This TL seems promising
Marching Toward the Eschaton: An American Tragedy, 1946 - 1973
It was the 3rd of April, 1946, and fourteen-year-old Wolfgang Eberhardt had command of his own anti-aircraft battery. The battery – consisting of two 88s and three smaller 36mm guns – was situated in the wide, open Jenischpark, just ten kilometers from downtown Hamburg. Its task was to defend...
www.alternatehistory.com
When was the time that the American political scene would have been most amenable to the idea of finally bumping DC and Puerto Rico up to statehood, and would have been the likely political butterflies from that re the Senate and House?
Axslashel
I am a pessimist not a realist.
- Location
- Land of the Midnight Sun
Puerto Rico could have been done in the 50s or 60s slightly after Hawaii. Hawaii wasn't majority white either and at this time elections were swingy enough both parties could believe themselves to win in Puerto Rico. They still can irl but for some reason people think Puerto Rico will be some democrat stronghold.
DC on the other hand is less and less likely the further back you go. It was formed for the explicit purpose of giving the government a piece of land they and only they control. Sharing jurisdiction with a state is exactly what they don't want.
DC on the other hand is less and less likely the further back you go. It was formed for the explicit purpose of giving the government a piece of land they and only they control. Sharing jurisdiction with a state is exactly what they don't want.
I suspect its an idea unworkable to the point of being ASB, but for the sake of curiosity; are there any ATL maps that try work out how Europe would look under the maximal end of Churchill's proposed percentage agreement (the so-called 'naughty document') with Stalin?
One of the most ill-considered actions of the Ottoman Sultanate was the execution of Patriarch Gregory V over to the Greek revolt in the Morea. Atop the moral issue of lynching an unarmed prelate, there is the whole practial issue about how like most of the Greek Orthodox upper clergy they were fulminating against the not-so-vaguely Jacobin movement and their allied banditry.
So let us consider an AH where Mahmud II thinks matters over, decides intent matters more than lack of success, and openly stands by the Patriarch in the role of Guardian of the Orthodox Church along with actively protecting loyal subjects from confessional reprisals. It is far from given this would cripple the emergence of the Greek State, but if successful we would be looking at a far more anti-clerical and perhaps westernizing regime in Athens or more-optimistically-from-the-Ottoman-POV Nafplio and less support on the ground for expansion.
Thoughts?
So let us consider an AH where Mahmud II thinks matters over, decides intent matters more than lack of success, and openly stands by the Patriarch in the role of Guardian of the Orthodox Church along with actively protecting loyal subjects from confessional reprisals. It is far from given this would cripple the emergence of the Greek State, but if successful we would be looking at a far more anti-clerical and perhaps westernizing regime in Athens or more-optimistically-from-the-Ottoman-POV Nafplio and less support on the ground for expansion.
Thoughts?
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I mean OTL you got the formation of the Autocephalous Church of Greece after the war, I expect that to be a bigger deal here. Greece definitely would be weaker, but considering the degree to which its borders were decided by outside powers I don't think they will be that different
shearsforest
Plausible isn't optimistic anymore
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For quite some time now, I've been thinking of doing a pseudo-remake of @Dab master's 2020: Shots Fired set in 2028 — though I guess I've decided to do my own spin on it since I already did the "apocalypse year" format via 366 Days of Madness, itself based off of 2020:SF.
Setting it in 2028 allows me to get away with weather-based events that don't occur in OTL 2020 + allows me to reimagine how 2020:SF would occur with more than 8 years of hindsight.
Setting it in 2028 allows me to get away with weather-based events that don't occur in OTL 2020 + allows me to reimagine how 2020:SF would occur with more than 8 years of hindsight.
Interesting.
If I was to do a Second American Civil War story I'd change a lot.
I think I'd have a basically victorious Republican Party that had won their Final Victory over their liberal foes then lose a war over Taiwan while invading Mexico or some shit and imposing massive austerity as the starting point.
If I was to do a Second American Civil War story I'd change a lot.
I think I'd have a basically victorious Republican Party that had won their Final Victory over their liberal foes then lose a war over Taiwan while invading Mexico or some shit and imposing massive austerity as the starting point.
shearsforest
Plausible isn't optimistic anymore
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For the record - this scenario, called 2028: THE YEAR WITHOUT TRANQUILITY, will be more so based off of 366 Days of Madness than it is 2020: Shots Fired - the former itself a combination of 2020:SF plus a series of apocalyptic/2020-focused timelines on alternatehistory.com (A Very Bad Year (1973), The Last Seventeen Months of Humanity, and Backs Against the Wall's "Pandemonium" chapter, to name three major inspirations) - the goal here being to lead to some sort of "apocalypse" by December 31, 2028.
There will be 2 versions, most probably - a red band release here, which goes loose with one of the endings retained from the original 366 Days (a potential bolide impact making headlines in the months leading up to the Apocalypse), and a trimmed release on AH.com that keeps things more low-key geologically and weather-wise.
Otherwise, 2020: Shots Fired and Backs Against the Wall will serve as major inspirations for where I take Vance here - as well as fellow ideas from compatriots like @Mister Anemone; my goal is to basically gradually transform Vance from VP-turned-President to Trump 2.0 in every which way possible. Vance provides an interesting starting point here, bereft of the Emoluments Clause and John Bolton and all, and allows me to go in a couple different directions with this version of 2020:SF.
There will be 2 versions, most probably - a red band release here, which goes loose with one of the endings retained from the original 366 Days (a potential bolide impact making headlines in the months leading up to the Apocalypse), and a trimmed release on AH.com that keeps things more low-key geologically and weather-wise.
Otherwise, 2020: Shots Fired and Backs Against the Wall will serve as major inspirations for where I take Vance here - as well as fellow ideas from compatriots like @Mister Anemone; my goal is to basically gradually transform Vance from VP-turned-President to Trump 2.0 in every which way possible. Vance provides an interesting starting point here, bereft of the Emoluments Clause and John Bolton and all, and allows me to go in a couple different directions with this version of 2020:SF.
Mazeka
You must be joking
- Location
- United States
(Not sure if this question counts here)
In this scenario, take the premise of the HOI4 mod Red World and mix it with both Reds! and Spartakus: World in Revolution.
An assortment of PODs results in most of Europe east of the Rhine River turning communist by 1921, the United States and Mexico undergoing revolutions in 1934, and a Second World War that ends with France, Italy, the Balkans, Greece, Iran, India, China, Japan, Korea, and most of Latin America going red.
The Cold War that follows results in Australia and New Zealand splitting off from the now-isolated UK, Canada coming apart at the seams, the African colonies decolonizing one by one in wars of independence, Spain and Portugal becoming left-leaning neutrals, Türkiye destabilizing, and Saudi Arabia under existential threat from both a socialist Iran and the Nasserist pan-Arab state creeping up from North Africa.
Taken all together, could one predict a fully communist Earth at some point between 2050 and 2100?
In this scenario, take the premise of the HOI4 mod Red World and mix it with both Reds! and Spartakus: World in Revolution.
An assortment of PODs results in most of Europe east of the Rhine River turning communist by 1921, the United States and Mexico undergoing revolutions in 1934, and a Second World War that ends with France, Italy, the Balkans, Greece, Iran, India, China, Japan, Korea, and most of Latin America going red.
The Cold War that follows results in Australia and New Zealand splitting off from the now-isolated UK, Canada coming apart at the seams, the African colonies decolonizing one by one in wars of independence, Spain and Portugal becoming left-leaning neutrals, Türkiye destabilizing, and Saudi Arabia under existential threat from both a socialist Iran and the Nasserist pan-Arab state creeping up from North Africa.
Taken all together, could one predict a fully communist Earth at some point between 2050 and 2100?
You have a point, although the bad press from Gregory's murder did get a lot of those outside governments more motivated.
The issue it that there would be a significant 'Pro-Constantinople' Orthodox Greek population not present in OTL either pushing for a more conciliatory stance toward the Sultanate from within the Greek State or getting purged from same and being adamantly opposed to said state's expansion.
- Location
- The Final Frontier
Well, I'd first say no, because communism doesn't actually work, in the sense that the Marxist 'communism' has never been achieved.
And also because . . . what does that mean? Do you just mean "a bunch of states that talk about hammers and sickles and people's republics" and such? Sure, whatever. But under that umbrella, there's a wild variety of possibilities. You have stuff ranging from weird anarchism in Mexico, market socialism stuff in Yugoslavia, straight up Stalinist authoritarianism, Cuban "people's democracy" to just being capitalists in China. Realistically, because prosperity is good and people like being prosperous, a bunch of Chinese-style state capitalist nations run by personalist cliques with lip service towards Marx seems eminently reasonable.