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Alt History ideas, rec and general discussion thread

Bluespark9 said:
How would a fascist Britain or at least one that employs those tactics(well, those tactics to white people as well) deal with Australia and other colonies such as Canada and new Zealand, especially if they did not have a similar grassroots support from those colonies?
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A lot of the manpower behind the edifice of a fascist Britain would be the military families that staff colonial offices and heavily empire-brained dudes who's dads would have been the primary push for greater protectionist trade binding the empire and Dominions closer to England and the like Imperial Federation type of proposed liberal imperialism, against the Little Englanders in the halls of British power. I think a fascist Britain could fairly easily use this vein of imperial fascism prompting like corporatist class-collaboration but for all the white Dominions to help jointly administer the empire as like junior colonizers, especially as like a lot of big colonial leaders would be dudes like South Africa's Jan Smuts and Australia's Billy Hughes who want to enact varying degrees of state-building or economic populism (and as always- white supremacy) but all still within a British system.
 
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Are there any plausible timelines where the US has to share the North American continent with a rival peer power (that isn't Canada, Mexico, or the CSA)?

Decades of Darkness and What Madness is This will not count.
 
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Mazeka said:
Are there any plausible timelines where the US has to share the North American continent with a rival peer power (that isn't Canada, Mexico, or the CSA)?

Decades of Darkness and What Madness is This will not count.
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Let's try thinkin about what could work...

The easiest one I can see is some kind of independent California? I've seen blurbs working with that but not full TLs.
 
Peer is tricky, especially with the limitations about who it can't be. Maybe there's one out there with a differently-named successor to New Spain? Although that might still count as too close to Mexico.
 
LordInsane said:
Peer is tricky, especially with the limitations about who it can't be. Maybe there's one out there with a differently-named successor to New Spain? Although that might still count as too close to Mexico.
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A breakup of Mexico maybe?

The north was usually quite restive. You could get an breakup of Mexico with Texas, the northern provinces and California which might be big enough and hispanic enough to reject inclusion in the US.

Might even be good for the southern rump since it'll be able to have more unified politics.
 
There's always an America kept out of the Ohio or at least Illinois Valley by the United Indian Nations and Tecumseh's Confederation?
 
Butterflies butterflies butterflies, French Louisiana/New France is more heavily settled and build up, doesn't get split between Britain and Spain, and gains independence after the French Revolution and Napoleonic Wars, be it as a Bourbon Kingdom (becoming France's Brazil), a Republic (possible alliance with Haiti?), or a New French Empire under Napoleon himself after he flees Europe without getting captured by the British.

This is admittedly pretty silly.
 
I had an idea for something like that involving the Native American society known as the Mound Builders. Maybe if they weathered whatever disaster happened to them a few centuries before making first contact with Europeans (some sort of severe weather event that led to a long string of poor growing seasons and a couple of resource wars) a bit better than OTL, and were still a somewhat unified nation with enough centralisation to define and enforce a border and limit the damage done by the introduction of smallpox?
 
How about a chinese colony on the west coast? You would need to change a lot of China's history and give them a reason for why they should focus on shipbuilding and explore the world but if both the east and west coasts are settled at the same time you could have somewhat evenly powered successor states.
 
Axslashel said:
How about a chinese colony on the west coast? You would need to change a lot of China's history and give them a reason for why they should focus on shipbuilding and explore the world but if both the east and west coasts are settled at the same time you could have somewhat evenly powered successor states.
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You'd need an impressive butterfly net to have a China capable of colonizing the west coast not impact the east coast's colonization enough to not have something recognizable as the USA.
 
Okay, so, idea:

During the Siberian Ice March, Kolchak and Semyonov die of frostbite or something, and General Vladimir Kappel - young, charismatic, and beloved by his troops - survives. Kappel manages to hold together the ungainly coalition of surviving Whites, Czech, Turkish, and Italian soldiers, and American and Japanese expeditionary forces enough to destroy the Soviet backed government at Chita. A rough troika of Kappel, the Czech Legion chief of staff and religious maniac Mikhail Diteriks, and Admiral Georgy Stark ran a surviving rump state, which used a policy of religious nationalism, fervent anti-communism, and land reform to woo the locals - along with convincing some of the Czech, Turkish, and Italians to stay as settlers. The land reform program was enough to stay some of the terror campaigns perpetuated OTL by the Japanese and Americans, and - after a defeat by Admiral Stark's squadron and some retroceded Japanese warships of an attempted Red landing near Vladivostok - American encouragement of recognition of the White breakaway state by the Soviet Union succeeds.

By the late 1930s, the Russian Far Eastern State is a surviving White Russian polity encompassing roughly from Chita to Vladivostok, a little rump buffer state backed by (depending on the day of the week) the Americans or the Japanese. Nominally, an American style government and Tsar Nicholas III (formerly the Grand Duke Nicholas) rule; in reality the military troika has no incentive to give up power.
 
Sarissa said:
Do any significant changes occur if America picks up Mexico's northern border states?
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The US getting more, or all, of Mexico from the Mexican-American War would likely lead to an earlier Civil War as the Southern States push for expanding slavery into the new territories, while everyone else tries to stop them.
 
The Spanish fail to take control of the mainland and either the triple alliance or one of the rival alliances rises in power in response?
 
Mazeka said:
Are there any plausible timelines where the US has to share the North American continent with a rival peer power (that isn't Canada, Mexico, or the CSA)?

Decades of Darkness and What Madness is This will not count.
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None that I know of, you might have to work on if for your own. But the problem is your going to accept a much smaller USA by default. How small depends on what kind of power your looking for. Going for the U.S at 1783 makes it something of a formidable power, locally. However an Independent New France, and maybe instead of Mexico but the Provincias Internas are independent too. Because I think anything after the Louisiana Purchase would be hard to make an equal power with the U.S

Nyvis said:
You'd need an impressive butterfly net to have a China capable of colonizing the west coast not impact the east coast's colonization enough to not have something recognizable as the USA.
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I don't think you need a butterfly net, at least in regards to possible Chinese colonization impacting the early U.S you just need the right POD with the right dynasty, and I don't think you need to do something crazy like Song industrialization.
 
bookwyrm said:
There's always an America kept out of the Ohio or at least Illinois Valley by the United Indian Nations and Tecumseh's Confederation?
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A possible POD could be the United Indian Nations taking out the American supply lines during 1793-1794 rather than fighting directly, using defeat in detail to destroy the Legion of the United States?
 
Mazeka said:
Are there any plausible timelines where the US has to share the North American continent with a rival peer power (that isn't Canada, Mexico, or the CSA)?

Decades of Darkness and What Madness is This will not count.
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Geography and demography make this very tricky.

At the moment of independence, maybe half of the arable or potentially arable land in North America was within the US' nominal borders, and nearly all the rest was firmly in British or Spanish hands. The two exceptions were the West Coast and the western prairie. But while the West Coast's arable land is very good, there isn't a lot of it, and it's quite isolated geographically. Meanwhile, the western prairie's got lots of arable land, but not all of it is very good, and it doesn't have a geographic barrier between it and the US, which would make maintaining independence difficult.

The demographics are also really unfavorable. Outside of the core territories of the US and what would become Canada and Mexico, the population density of North America was very low, which would make it difficult for any nation that arose to compete with the US as a peer. Unless, of course, they imported settlers from one of those core territories, but you only need to look at Texas to see how that can backfire spectacularly.

I think the most plausible option here is either a US-derived competitor state or an earlier PoD and a butterfly net.
 
Mazeka said:
Are there any plausible timelines where the US has to share the North American continent with a rival peer power (that isn't Canada, Mexico, or the CSA)?

Decades of Darkness and What Madness is This will not count.
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Click to shrink...

The Dead Skunk has a couple of regional powers grow on the North American continent after a worse outcome for the U.S. in the War of 1812, and Eric Flint's excellent - albeit sadly unfinished - Trail of Glory series has an alliance of Native Tribes, Freedman, and a crazy Irishman arise in the Arkansas Territory.
 
Vannifar said:
A possible POD could be the United Indian Nations taking out the American supply lines during 1793-1794 rather than fighting directly, using defeat in detail to destroy the Legion of the United States?
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Or just not having the perfect trifecta of Washington now enthroned as president under this new constitution and new constitutional powers of warmaking, where he then writes a blank check to Mad Anthony to do whatever has to be done to the point of letting him nerd out calling his soldiers a legion, with the time passing between the the great victories in '92 and then the new invasion of '94 being a confusing malaise of attempted peace negotiations and discord between more pro-war factions of like Blue Jacket/Weyapiersenwah of the Shawnee-Lenape-Miami bloc and more pro-peace factions of like Joseph Brant/Thayendanegea of the Haudenosaunee Six Nations.
 
Let's say New England successfully seceded from the US after a failed War of 1812 and later took New York state, eastern Pennsylvania, and New Jersey with it. What would be the timeframe for official civil rights legislation in New England?
 
Why would New York state, Eastern Pennsylvania, and New Jersey somehow leave with the New England states in the first place?
 
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