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Alt History ideas, rec and general discussion thread

messing with a television event for shiggles: at 11PM Birmingham time December 31, 1979, the whole of the traditional area of the West Midlands is transported to the same time and date in 2000.

I'm very interested in how this messes up the year 2000 Carlton-Granada ITV given that - among other things - the old ATV Midlands and their old studios in Broad Street have suddenly been brought to 2000.
 
Axslashel said:
It is nice that it is happening but what caused enough difference that they could even recruit from the former colonies?
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I just realized I glossed over this part of the question my bad.

So these parts actually come from OTL, there was a standing Taiwan-Japanese army and they did recruit from Korea just in extremely small numbers and they did arm a decent number of Indonesians I believe, or at least collaborated with formerly rebel forces. This is just a more extreme version of that thanks to the relative success of early collaboration, how 'busy' the war is getting and the prospect of using their new 'allies' as bullet buffers and whittling down their numbers of able fighters so when the war is over they are less of a rebellion risk.

Also, idle aside but I am retconning the invasion of Poland instead the USSR is going to attack the Baltic states; the various European powers dislike it and Hitler uses it as a pretense to justify re-arming and swearing to 'totally help liberate them later' but those targeted don't get nearly enough aid to hold out. I will also probably change the timeline so that its after their aid in China and they use the same mobilized forces in their opening gambit so they can move faster and hit with more surprise, relatively speaking.
 
Scenario: If Spartakist Germany and the Soviet Union succeed in turning France, the Benelux, and Spain socialist (by force or otherwise), would it be plausible for the United Kingdom to turn monarcho-fascist akin to V for Vendetta?

(Note: The US in this scenario is isolationist.)
 
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Mazeka said:
Scenario: If Spartakist Germany and the Soviet Union succeed in turning France, the Benelux, and Spain socialist (by force or otherwise), would it be plausible for the United Kingdom to turn monarcho-fascist akin to V for Vendetta?

(Note: The US in this scenario is isolationist.)
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The UK would probably go hard reactionary. Supression efforts aimed at subversive elements aka basically anyone to the left of Winston Churchill, going in on militarism and doing their level best to ensure that the US will be at least hostile neutral to the red bloc. Also sponsoring hard right dictatorships aimed at containing the communists to Europe.
 
Under those circumstances, Italy almost certainly goes Red as well, and the Balkans definitely do.
Basically, Red Europe.
 
Mazeka said:
What about the Nordics?
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Something something "liberate our brother Europeans from antiquated Monarchies" etc.
Think Winter War. Germany's got its own border dispute over S-H (not gonna try and spell it out lol) and the ideological component.

If Germany invades Denmark there's not a whole lot that I can see Britain etc. capable of doing to stop them; ditto Norway. We saw how that went in WWII, and here there's a USSR and "friendly" France backing the Germans up.
 
I half suspect a scenario where socialist Germany forced communism on France in the aftermath of World War one or interwar period would have a rather high chance of blowing up in its face with any power that might view Spartakist Germany as a threat or rival throwing kindling on the fire which might well include the Soviet Union if Stalin is in power.

Though on the idea of the UK going full reactionary, I just have this image of them overreacting to FDR's election in that scenario and do something in the Americas to alarm the US even if the US isn't interested in what is going on in Europe.
 
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Undead Martyr said:
Something something "liberate our brother Europeans from antiquated Monarchies" etc.
Think Winter War. Germany's got its own border dispute over S-H (not gonna try and spell it out lol) and the ideological component.

If Germany invades Denmark there's not a whole lot that I can see Britain etc. capable of doing to stop them; ditto Norway. We saw how that went in WWII, and here there's a USSR and "friendly" France backing the Germans up.
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WWII invasion of Norway was something Germany should have had no chance of pulling off. Denmark, sure. No defenses that can stop Germany, but Norway was basically Germany going "We're going in without real sealift capabilities and a joke navy against the Royal Navy." and somehow pulling it off. This was the theater where two battleships ambushed an aircraft carrier in broad daylight and sank her.

Britain and France fucked that one up hilariously.

Finland potentially falls, Sweden and Norway would need a lot of things going right for the red powers to fall. Reminder, Germany and the USSR would have no real navy. The Imperial Russian navy was pretty weak and the Imperial German navy is scuttled at Scapa Flow. And invading Sweden or Norway from the north of the USSR/Finland? Well, you can send your army north and depending on how lucky you are, they might even reach and cross the border. Good luck keeping your supplies going.
 
Are there any Soviet civil war ATLs that are less cringeworthy, non-racist, and more realistic than The Death of Russia?
 
A timeline where the scientific and industrial revolution gets thrown into over drive. With the 19th century developing some serious steampunk technology and advancing from their. Till we reach something resembling Ghost in the Shell meets For All Mankind.
 
PT12 said:
A timeline where the scientific and industrial revolution gets thrown into over drive. With the 19th century developing some serious steampunk technology and advancing from their. Till we reach something resembling Ghost in the Shell meets For All Mankind.
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I'd dig a Steampunk TL from a social history perspective, basically instead of "cool cog hat," it would focus on how advanced technology doesn't equal advanced equality and progress. Giving the OTL Victorians steampunk tech is going to make them do imperialism harder, and I doubt the pseudoscience of "racial science" and its attendants and hangers-on would change because zeppelin, and I've never seen or heard of a steampunk TL that investigates that.
 
I'm new here, but I was listening to mike Duncan and one thing he said that interested me was that essentially that the British empire was only incentivized to end the slave trade due to the American colonies independence, and that he suspects that if they had kept the 13 colonies they would have done the same slavery and Indian removal that America did when independent. This got me thinking about how a British Empire with America would look like, and I found several other ideas from there.
One was that over time the center of economic gravity would shift to the American colonies and they would become a essentially the economic(though not necessarily the political) center of an even larger British empire. British north America in this would control essentially most of irl Canada and all of the USA except Russian Alaska and land taken from Mexico(including Texas, which I think I want to make majority Irish due to there being no USA, so the Mexican government's encouragements of settlement is to the Irish, who make it into a autonomous part of Mexico).The British empire would also colonize Patagonia in addition because I find it interesting. I also imagined that a similar patter of the original metropole becoming a colonial dominion would play out with an even greater extent with the Portuguese empire in brazil, who would be the greatest allies of Brittan, gaining the all of the Congo, parts of the Dutch east indies(which are split with Brittan) and west Australia.
I also imagined the Russian Empire would be the big rival to the the British and Portuguese in Europe and Asia. My thought is that since it is before the French revolution, It might be possible to make a Russia that is more similar to Prussia, in that it keeps much of it's autocratic structure with only a few reforms, but get the benefits of a industrialized society. To keep non-Russians satisfied, they are also granted a level of autonomy and democracy, thought this is the kind of German empire democracy meant to satiate not change things. The big thing is just that Russia would be more competent and a bit larger on the edges.
I have more, such as my ideas for a great power socialist Mexico and south American socalist confedetion, but I want to put this out right now.
 
WI: Richard Nixon's phlebitis happens in late 1973 and he dies.

Effects on 1973-75?

effects on the 1976 primaries on both sides and the election?
 
Okay potentially dumb question but because things in an Alt-TL ending up representing the complete opposite of what they mean in OTL tickles my funny bone, would it be possible for the term "fascism" to end up being the name of a legitimately socialist ideology, the bundle of sticks being symbolic of the united and combined struggle of exploited and oppressed classes and groups?
 
King Washington said:
Okay potentially dumb question but because things in an Alt-TL ending up representing the complete opposite of what they mean in OTL tickles my funny bone, would it be possible for the term "fascism" to end up being the name of a legitimately socialist ideology, the bundle of sticks being symbolic of the united and combined struggle of exploited and oppressed classes and groups?
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en.wikipedia.org

Fasci Siciliani - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Reality isn't quite realistic
 
King Washington said:
Okay potentially dumb question but because things in an Alt-TL ending up representing the complete opposite of what they mean in OTL tickles my funny bone, would it be possible for the term "fascism" to end up being the name of a legitimately socialist ideology, the bundle of sticks being symbolic of the united and combined struggle of exploited and oppressed classes and groups?
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For sure, yes. I'm pretty sure it was a French revolutionary symbol before it was a fascist symbol, among other older uses. By the time socialist revolution became a serious prospect OTL, it was thoroughly dominated by Marxism and its iconography so the fasces didn't stand a chance but an alt-development is possible.

Potentially if the right wing of syndicalist thought doesn't break off cleanly to form the seeds of latin fascism? I think they were the ones into this kind of iconography. Sorel's mythologizing of the general strike fit well with that too.

Though you're always at risk of this turning into a more revolutionary form of nationalist thought if those people aren't booted out cleanly. The further back you go, the easier it is because there will be a bigger vacuum of leftist ideology and symbology.
 
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King Washington said:
Okay potentially dumb question but because things in an Alt-TL ending up representing the complete opposite of what they mean in OTL tickles my funny bone, would it be possible for the term "fascism" to end up being the name of a legitimately socialist ideology, the bundle of sticks being symbolic of the united and combined struggle of exploited and oppressed classes and groups?
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I've seen it as a racially tolerant liberal democracy, so I imagine so. It was a popular symbol for unity, I'm pretty sure the US has one one some national symbols still, so it seems very possible.
 
If in 1968, the weekday/weekend split had been kept in the ATV and Granada and Yorkshire regions like it was in London, how much difference would it make for the ITV network going forward?
 
PC: how can afternoon newspapers remain viable longer?

This is not insurmountable: the old afternoon "Herald" here in Melbourne Australia hit its peak circulation in the 1970s.

 
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PT12 said:
Found this today on Reddit.
r/AlternateHistory - What if NATO was not just a military union, but also an economical one?

Just off the top of my head the EU wouldn't exist. With it being a defacto American Empire. Possibly with the likes of Australia, Japan and South Korea being pulled in as well.
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I don't think the US ever really wanted a customs union with Europe.

On the other hand if it happens before NATO enlargement, I could see it being a bit more likely, which would in turn make any enlargement difficult. Which would of course spawn another structure to coordinate with European allies the US doesn't want free movement with (like Turkey for example). Which will be TTL's real NATO equivalent, while NATO is a larger EEC.

What might happen is that NATO has an economic aspect, probably as a more permanent extension of the Marshall plan, but it never has the opportunity to evolve into something akin to the European Union due to it being much bigger and more divided. It probably doesn't drop border checks, just implement visa-free travel with a NATO passport through them. Similarly you may also get much more acceptance for deviation in trade and subsidy policy than in the EU (which is really draconian about its interpretation of the free market), or an imposition of American norms for them. You'll never get the expansive protection of named products the EU uses to safeguard its specialities, for example. But you'll probably still get a more open effort to not piss off each side of the atlantic with wildly divergent standards on the question. So for example, it's likely you'll be able to label American made products with names the EU reserve to regional products, but it's also likely there will be more compromise on fixing the production formula, unlike the wild west of OTL American branding.

It's also likely to make globalization very different. After all, the capitalist powers are already largely all in one custom union that will negotiate deals with all their united weight. So why bother imposing free trade standards on the world through the WTO which could also benefit non-NATO buyers?

There's also the question of Empire. How does this more integrated NATO handle decolonization?
 
The literal symbol the fasces is still surprisingly common - it's in the House of Representatives, even.

Anyway, here's a prompt: in real life, in January 1915, a German zeppelin passed over Sandringham less then a day after the King and Queen left. Let's say that the British are a little unlucky, and the German crew slightly more - the King and Queen decide to spend an extra day, and the servants leave the lights on. The Zeppelin drops it's bombs, the high explosives go off, the incendiaries light the place up, and George V and Queen Mary are dead. What would happen?
 
comradepitrovsky said:
The literal symbol the fasces is still surprisingly common - it's in the House of Representatives, even.

Anyway, here's a prompt: in real life, in January 1915, a German zeppelin passed over Sandringham less then a day after the King and Queen left. Let's say that the British are a little unlucky, and the German crew slightly more - the King and Queen decide to spend an extra day, and the servants leave the lights on. The Zeppelin drops it's bombs, the high explosives go off, the incendiaries light the place up, and George V and Queen Mary are dead. What would happen?
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Depends, are their kids with them?

One thing's for sure, Britain will loudly lament the savage murder of the Royals by the Huns to anyone who'd care to hear. if their kids are also with them at the time and croak as well, the death of the Royals will be dragged out until the sun dies.

As far as succession goes, Britain has a pretty robust line of succession, the main thing would be if they bother crowning a new king during the war or if they wait until after the war.

The main difference would probably come down to Britain having some harebrained demands after the war's over. The death of the royals itself should have no influence on the war.
 
1915 is not 2023 = George V had a bit more say in things, either openly or behind-the-scenes than Charles III does. So his and his Queen's murder would have more political impact. Expect a few more tidbits (or more) at any alternate Peace Conference - which given Germany murdered the freaking British *KING and QUEEN*, may not even be at *Versailles*.
 
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