Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 23: We Wonder Where Who Wanders When Watchers Wane

Pre-Vote Running Tally: Who Are Your Top 3 Choices For Orichalcum?


  • Total voters
    625
Iris, what have you done now? Tell me you didn't crack the Birdcage accidentally on purpose?
Possibilities are many:
-Dragon frozen caused a backup to begin rebooting(probably not, since her backups have a wait time of about half an hour IIRC.
-Dragon frozen along with her backups.
-Dragon frozen along with her backups and all her subsidiary programs
Alloyed Reinforcement of Flesh is obviously not calibrated right, if she's falling asleep after a mere twelve hours or so.
Or she could simply have been bored, which is just as likely.
Bored is the indication. Saki tends to tune out into a "Blah blah blah" when it's something she doesn't care about.
I've heard that Contessa is not the best at asking the right question, and Cauldron does have their own form of Master/Stranger protocols, but... Is taking the world-spaning, possibly dimension-jumping, teleport into your top-secret conspiracy base really a good idea?
Well
Who says they're doing that? They could easily have an off-site facility on another alternative earth far away from their real base. They already use Doormaker for everything anyway, having a conference room for dangerous meetings somewhere else seems rather simple.
This. Cauldron's facilities are already designed with dimensional intrusion in mind. Even when Scion realized their significance he wound up chasing through a lot of dead ends before he got to them.
 
Access to any parahuman might be very useful. Because Saint.
IMO, either we defuse Saint ASAP or he explodes in faces of Assembly. This goes triple if we are not going with Truth, but given that there is Truth an then there is presentation of Truth, it is always relevant.
So....2 points vial + 3 points for access to Saint + 4 points to access another Earth.

Another Earth is "maybe", but vial and Saint, I think, are mandatory.

Saint isn't on the table because he's not an IC priority. He's not even significant outside of meta.
 
I don't recognize the other two references, tho.
Only the name of that vote is the reference, and the options are how to deal with it.

Also, it should be noted that our rewards do not have to be used by us - we could, for example, help build Accord's Ambassadors back up with vials and cash infusions, or purchase Tinkertech from the Toybox with the money, or hire mercenary groups to help with patrols/rebuilding in Philly/Camden.
 
Vial or two for SCIENCE, of course.

Yeah. Having vial to study will allow us to (hopefully) figure stuff out that we can convince Cauldron to let us more access to vials and perhaps even Eden eventually. Ofcourse, Iris is unavailable right now, and he is our best bet in figuring things out. Throwing one high quality vial with Aisha is still an option, but far more risky one due to Eden.

Access to other planet for destructive SCIENCE, maybe? Or, more relevantly - to explore possibility stuff Autochton there so as to not fuck up gravity and shit in inhabited solar system.

Maybe. I could see the potential for having an uninhabited earth/universe that we could put non-causality demesnes on. Or even better, deliberately release Wyld on to convert on to transform the planet to chaos. Ofcourse we would have to be sure the Wyld can't spread between dimensions. Really sucks that we can't ask Iris. Still, we have Occult 5.

@Gromweld, would Taylor have any ideas about non-causality demesnes or Wyld, and the risks involved in deliberately converting another Earth to Wyld? Can it spread between dimensions and potentially "infect" inhabited worlds?

Access to any parahuman might be very useful. Because Saint.
IMO, either we defuse Saint ASAP or he explodes in faces of Assembly. This goes triple if we are not going with Truth, but given that there is Truth an then there is presentation of Truth, it is always relevant.

If we don't come fully clean, Saint could indeed paint us as a liar. And he would only cost 1 credits. The thing is, does Taylor actually know about Saint IC?
 
Saint isn't on the table because he's not an IC priority. He's not even significant outside of meta.

Didn't he mess with Assembly already?
Also, Dragon/EOA are tinkerbros and Saint is a pain in Dragon's posterior. Moreover, he is weird pain with no identifiable method of doing what he does.

Hmmm.
@Gromweld
Can we get Information from Cauldron? Like, for example, how the hell is Saint doing what he does, what are, in their opinion, threats to Assembly, the like? Because they currently have all the intel and it is, probably, one of the more precious resources to have.


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If we don't come fully clean, Saint could indeed paint us as a liar. And he would only cost 1 credits. The thing is, does Taylor actually know about Saint IC?

This is why I would really, really like ( and think it would be fitting choice as Taylor knows full well value of timely intel) option to request data on current threats/weird shit/blind spots of Assembly from Cauldron.
 
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Didn't he mess with Assembly already?
Also, Dragon/EOA are tinkerbros and Saint is a pain in Dragon's posterior. Moreover, he is weird pain with no identifiable method of doing what he does.
Mercenaries attacked.

Taylor gets like two of those every other week. Unless you think she's going to spend a Cauldron Favor getting rid of the Former Undersiders, they aren't important
 
This is why I would really, really like ( and think it would be fitting choice as Taylor knows full well value of timely intel) option to request data on current threats/weird shit/blind spots of Assembly from Cauldron.

Presumably we could use it as a free action. But would not affect the current rewards. Still, we could probably get more, and 1 credit is probably cheap enough that we could probably get it later. Also, we might want to consider the possibility of going to backing 2 Cauldron for Taylor? For more potential jobs and rewards? Not sure going to 3 is worth it (atleast not yet).

Though I would like to give Accord (Gromweld has basically made it clear it would make him much more sane, if you read past WoGs) and (possibly) Armsmaster a soul, and that apparently requires a free action aswell. Anyone willing to support that? We could have Saki (she wants answers anyway!) "interrogate" Cauldron about things.

Oh, and for the interlude:
Bonesaw interlude might reveal if she is planning to go psycho on us, but I think I would want to see if Prayers free action had any impact on Armsmaster more.
 
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Alchemicals On Parade: (Choose ONE, ONE Stunt allowed!)
[ ] PRT Announces "Alchemical Parahumans"
[ ] Alchemicals remain a PRT "Ongoing Investigation"
Truth, or close to it.
Alchemical Parahumans is close enough; control the message or someone will do it for you.

The Week of Slaughter - Post-Mortem: (Choose ONE, ONE Stunt allowed!)
[ ] The Truth (Iris/Vision and Taylor did it. Stunt defines "The Truth.")
[ ] Blame Jack (Jack did it. Stunt defines "The Truth.")
[ ] Swamp Gas (Still-being-studied parahuman power/Tinkertech interaction did it. Stunt defines "The Truth.")
Turns out when you repeatedly poke the local equivalent of a big G-god, he might go Old Testament on you.
Do not poke the Happy Fun Ball.
:V

1 or 2, depending on stunt.
1 would involve emphasizing the fact that Jack had fail-deadly bombs in his body that had to be neutralized to prevent total city loss.
2 would probably be more along the lines of Jack made VoV angry. You don't like VoV when he's angry.
Our Cauldron Runneth Over: (Total of 9 Credits to spend, use the above-listed options, NO Stunts.)
Example vote for this, please use this format:
[X] 2 x Resources 0->5
[X] 1 x High Quality Vial
[X] 1 x Access to a specified alternate Earth
Yeah, I'm looking at:
Access to GU: x3 Credits: She has to be dealt with one way or the other regardless of whether we choose to Exalt her.
Securing planetary access: x4 Credits: Because an alternate, empty Earth for several hundred million people is probably a good idea to arrange ahead of time.

That leaves 2 Credits to spend.
Buying mercs to help clean up Philly would save Taylor time and effort in avoiding future problems and free up her time to prepare for the Advent of the EBs. Building up Accord would help with that debt. A vial would give Taylor intimate knowledge of how shards connect to people. Et cetera.

Strongly recommend against Resources, because it would look bad if/when our arrangement comes to light if we take cash for this.
Autochthonia Adventure #27: Must Go Faster, MUST GO FASTER! (Choose ONE, NO Stunt!)
[ ] Overload The Engine
[ ] Turn Guns On Ceiling
[ ] Cut Losses, Kamikaze
Huh.
Leaning towards Guns on Ceiling.

Interlusions Of Grandeur: (Choose ONE, NO Stunt)
[ ] Bonesaw
[ ] Armsmaster
[ ] New Trigger
We haven't had an Armsy Interlude, have we?
While I would like a Riley Interlude, I'm not sure what that would achieve; unless the GM wants to write her.
New Trigger is a mystery box, but would give a grounds-eye view of the state of things in Philly/Camden, which might be important.
 
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If we don't come fully clean, Saint could indeed paint us as a liar. And he would only cost 1 credits. The thing is, does Taylor actually know about Saint IC?
Like @veekie said, Saint is a nonentity.
And dealing with him now creates more problems than it solves.
Only the name of that vote is the reference, and the options are how to deal with it.
Wait, how to deal with the Autochtonian version of THIS?

More guns.
Definitely a LOT more guns.
 
Though I would like to give Accord (Gromweld has basically made it clear it would make him much more sane, if you read past WoGs) and (possibly) Armsmaster a soul, and that apparently requires a free action aswell. Anyone willing to support that? We could have Saki (she wants answers anyway!) "interrogate" Cauldron about things.

Huh. I missed that WoG and was unsure about whether soul would make meaningful difference. Thanks.

Presumably we could use it as a free action. But would not affect the current rewards. Still, we could probably get more, and 1 credit is probably cheap enough that we could probably get it later. Also, we might want to consider the possibility of going to backing 2 Cauldron for Taylor? For more potential jobs and rewards? Not sure going to 3 is worth it (atleast not yet).

That's why I asked G(romweld) for his Word on it. Because there is little more potent than information, and Cauldron has access to all the Nowhereverse data. Or at least vastly more than all other factions combined. If this comes expensive, it still is worth it.

Securing planetary access: x4 Credits: Because an alternate, empty Earth for several hundred million people is probably a good idea to arrange ahead of time.

Yeah, the more I think, the more it seems alternate Earth to stuff Jupiter-sized (Autobot's size is about such, right?) celestial body is actually really good idea.

Still think that either Cauldron's assistance with all the people who would like to screw over Assembly (too expensive or not available though) or their information on potential threats (inlcuding PR threats and existential threats to our friends) is really warranted.
Especially with all the reveals.
 
Huh. I missed that WoG and was unsure about whether soul would make meaningful difference. Thanks.

Will try to look them up when I get home.


As for GU, I am slightly hesitant if this is the right time (with Saki not fully with us, and Iris charging up). @Gromweld, if we choose parahuman access, can we delay visiting GU until Saki is fully onboard with that idea?

Not sure this is the best time to be contacting birdcage convicts, since it might push Saki all the way to full negative intimacy towards Taylor. She has not yet come to terms with Bonesaw, and we are already planning to recruit the next morally dubious one for the greater good. 1 more dot there.
(Accord also is a potential problem there btw.)

We still have Aishas exaltation upcoming, and then Vistas (presumably), so its not like we are in a hurry.

Yeah, the more I think, the more it seems alternate Earth to stuff Jupiter-sized (Autobot's size is about such, right?) celestial body is actually really good idea.

I think Gromweld stated that we could potentially initiate a wyld pocket via soul-shenanigans or something? Though it occurs that alchemicals don't really have any wyld-shaping stuff (BOO!), so dunno.
 
Obligatory warning:
Compassion does not solve all problems.

A Compassion 5 doctor might decide that devoting his life to caring for people with dementia is compassionate.
Another Compassion 5 doctor might decide that the most compassionate thing to do is to euthanize them and use their organs to fix up other people with organ failure. It depends on the person and their personality, as well as interaction with their other Virtues.

Adjoran is compassion 5.
 
Also, it should be noted that our rewards do not have to be used by us - we could, for example, help build Accord's Ambassadors back up with vials and cash infusions, or purchase Tinkertech from the Toybox with the money, or hire mercenary groups to help with patrols/rebuilding in Philly/Camden.
Hmm.
We might want to throw 1 Credit at both rehabilitating Philly and getting Dragon's NeoTokyo Fortress Camden project rolling.

I think Gromweld stated that we could potentially initiate a wyld pocket via soul-shenanigans or something? Though it occurs that alchemicals don't really have any wyld-shaping stuff (BOO!), so dunno.
God-Machine Protocol: Transcendent Pattern Reweaving Protocol.
Alchemical wyld shaping analogue.
 
Can we use Favor to convince Cauldron of ending the C99 program?

Is getting that extra point of Temperance for Saki prudent? she is not dealing with base human level temptations here (be it POS or Contessa). Might even be a good opportunity for character development.

Regarding the Sakura stunt.. I am assuming they are running away from an Oberasthi level problem.
moove faster / bury it in rubble / kamikazee!

We can't spend XP on Sakura right?
 
Hmm.
We might want to throw 1 Credit at both rehabilitating Philly and getting Dragon's NeoTokyo Fortress Camden project rolling.

Question is, should we perhaps try to arrange for such a fortress to be created at BB? Its basically a wasteland so no one wants it, Iris could presumably terraform it to be more habitable after he gets a demesne going (especially if he gets more essence after SoPA repairs itself), and it contains the one (soon two) thing endbringers are very interested in.

Turning it into an Essence-research facility (and eventually a manse) could be beneficial, and we could potentially convince PRT/Etc to support that.

God-Machine Protocol: Transcendent Pattern Reweaving Protocol.
Alchemical wyld shaping analogue.

Cool. However is God-Machine not E5? Taylor would be the only one who could realistically get it, and even then we would require a major timeskip for her to reach E5 in Iris (Taylor is the onlyone with a vat, and onlyone that will even potentially get a vat for many years).

Odds are that by the time we really need a planet of our own to wyldform or harvest for resources, Iris will have figured out how to breach dimensions (VoV did it easily enough) on his own, and we can find an uninhabited earth without needing (or depending on) Cauldron. So while an uninhabited planet is something we absolutely want, I wonder if its worth getting one right now?
 
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Odds are that by the time we really need a planet of our own to wyldform or harvest for resources, Iris will have figured out how to breach dimensions (VoV did it easily enough) on his own, and we can find an uninhabited earth without needing (or depending on) Cauldron. So while an uninhabited planet is something we absolutely want, I wonder if its worth getting one right now?

Fair enough.
Still waiting for Word of Gromweld on whether Intel is a viable choice.
If not, bump those 4 points from planet into rebuilding Philly, NeoCamden, helping Dragon become a real girl and getting Accord psychological help or something?
 
@Gromweld
Can we get Information from Cauldron? Like, for example, how the hell is Saint doing what he does, what are, in their opinion, threats to Assembly, the like? Because they currently have all the intel and it is, probably, one of the more precious resources to have.
No selling info this time around. If we want more than just their usual menu, we need to do more jobs for them and/or get higher Backing so that kind of info request works into our jobs for them.
@Gromweld, if we choose parahuman access, can we delay visiting GU until Saki is fully onboard with that idea?
Yes, we won't be immediately using these rewards yet. Votes for what to do with them will come next Chapter, since stuff that happens in 9.5 might affect those choices.
Can we use Favor to convince Cauldron of ending the C99 program?

We can't spend XP on Sakura right?
Ending the Case 53 program is something that would theoretically be done with Backing 5 and jumping through a lot of hoops to show it's not worth it.

No, can't spend XP on Sakura. She's gaining XP and stuff on her own, though, so don't worry too much there.
 
No selling info this time around. If we want more than just their usual menu, we need to do more jobs for them and/or get higher Backing so that kind of info request works into our jobs for them.

Hm. Fair enough, thanks.
Higher Backing with Cauldron seems like a nice idea, what with intel sharing and both organizations caring about stopping respective apocalypses.

So. Saint fucking our shit up is still a thing.
Which, in turn, means that we don't have a choice but to go full Truth, because he will reveal any sort of misdirection at the worst possible light and moment. So that choice is not really a choice. Maybe frame it as "Jack did a stupid thing, don't do a stupid thing to Iris and you won't get VoV'd", but that's already quite a spin.

Yes, we won't be immediately using these rewards yet. Votes for what to do with them will come next Chapter, since stuff that happens in 9.5 might affect those choices.


Mm. So choices better be somewhat flexible and not strongly tied to assumptions about behavior of characters?
Okay.
High quality vial - 3 pts (SCIENCE) +
Medium quality vial - 2 pts (SCIENCE) +
Low quality vial - 1 pts (SCIENCE) + //three different vials to make comparison of "what makes quality"
Resources 5 (NOT for us, but all into Philly/Camden/mercs for Philly/whatever) - 1 pts +
...
I don't know. 4 pts for access to another dimension is a lot, especially since it is not going to be relevant for some time, and we probably will be working with Cauldron and/or figuring our own way of interdimensional travel anyway.
OTOH, the earlier Iris has access to interdimensional travel, the higher is the chance he will figure this stuff out.
I am mildly against buying access right now, even though it is mandatory in the long perspective: we need to put out the current fires, get SCIENCE going, etc.

Also, how much is Resources 5? Do we need to buy it more than once to get good bonuses to rebuilding/securing Philadelphia?
 
Yes, we won't be immediately using these rewards yet. Votes for what to do with them will come next Chapter, since stuff that happens in 9.5 might affect those choices.

But can we wait a while? Like for example, say "We want access to GU 1000 hours from now". Or equivalent. Or if we choose GU now, are we going to have to visit right now or close enough, despite not having fully settled things with Saki, having a broken SoPA and Iris unavailable to help make an "impression" that our god is just plain better.

Hm. Fair enough, thanks.
Higher Backing with Cauldron seems like a nice idea, what with intel sharing and both organizations caring about stopping respective apocalypses.

Comes with downsides aswell. Though taking Taylor to 2 or 3 might be worth it. Going to 5 would basically mean we would BE Cauldron (atleast as much as Eidolon and Alexandria are) however, which has issues. Gromweld has spoken of this before. If I recall, will try to quote those too later.

OTOH, the earlier Iris has access to interdimensional travel, the higher is the chance he will figure this stuff out.

Maybe. Though VoV had little trouble breaching to the dimension that Broadcast-shard was in, despite having no access to the information Iris does. And that was a dimension blocked from Cauldron (I think?)

Also, how much is Resources 5? Do we need to buy it more than once to get good bonuses to rebuilding/securing Philadelphia?

A billion or so, if I recall correctly.
 
Comes with downsides aswell. Though taking Taylor to 2 or 3 might be worth it. Going to 5 would basically mean we would BE Cauldron (atleast as much as Eidolon and Alexandria are) however, which has issues. Gromweld has spoken of this before. If I recall, will try to quote those too later.

Well, yes, but if they can't even share goddamn intel on what they think are immediate threats to Assembly, we are really underusing them.
And Cauldron, for all their innumerable screw-ups, are closest to being 'good guys' of the setting, for a given value of 'good' in grimdark 90-comic-esque edgy superhero setting.

Then again, it depends on what story people want to read - I certainly would be on board with Assembly gradually becoming part of Cauldron, it's consciousness in a way, and them juggling several apocalypses while trying to remain humane..or not trying because that could be a nice story too.

Maybe. Though VoV had little trouble breaching to the dimension that Broadcast-shard was in, despite having no access to the information Iris does. And that was a dimension blocked from Cauldron (I think?)

Yeah, but VoV did it through open working connection inside Jack. I doubt it is the same without dimension being already semi-open, else Iris would've already at least tried poking dimensions.
After all, he knows Autobot is big and would make problems if he were to appear near the inhabited Earth, so solution of "stuff Auto-kun into empty-ish dimension" would probably appear in his mind if it was that easy.

A billion or so, if I recall correctly.

So should we buy it multiple times to properly rebuild? Once on rebuilding, once on mercs to keep order while SoPA is healing, once for support on NeoCamden?

Also. Bigger question.
Hypothetically, if Saki does not grow up and keep being comic relief/pile of (totally justified but still) angst/source of inter-Assembly friction, can we not exalt any more children?
 
- Resources 0->5 = 1 Credit
This one is mostly just a sink for leftover points.
I don't believe it's easily traceable or self evident, but spending it wisely would be a thing.

Note that most of our Assembly are minors and thus have limited funding normally. It's most useful when combined with Dimensional Access, as we can spend the Resources freely to develop the other world without interference.

- Low Quality Vial = 1 Credit
- Medium Quality Vial = 2 Credits
- High Quality Vial = 3 Credits
Getting a vial for Iris to study would be interesting. The question is quality, since I'm not sure it makes a difference if Iris studies a 'core' shard vs studying a peripheral one.
- Access to any no-problematic parahuman on Earth-Bet = 1 Credit
- Access to any parahuman on Earth-Bet = 3 Credits
- Access to any parahuman in Cauldron's reach = 5 Credits
3 Credit picks that may be useful:
-Glaistig Uaine - Regardless of whether we Exalt her, she needs to be turned into an asset. Since these favors can be doled out at a later date, this would be one of Saki's Big Missions.
-Sleeper - We don't actually know anything about Sleeper, but I believe Industrial Survival Frame may be useful for turning him from a hazard to an asset.
-Nilbog - Useful skills for providing stuff for us to control or Riley to work on. But normally getting to him would involve a military campaign which leaves him less than happy once you killed enough of his goblins. Cauldron could abduct him without much fuss to talk to.

- Access to a specified alternate Earth = 4 Credits ("aquatic Earth that doesn't have humans", Earth-Aleph, etc.)
This is IMMENSELY valuable I think, for multiple reasons:
-It introduces Iris to Dimensional Science. Ongoing access to a portal between the worlds would do a great deal for his ability to attune properly to Causality Essence. Like how leylines run through portals and dimensional transitions.
-It gives us an open planet to prepare to receive all the humans of Autochtonia when they arrive. The timescale is long by quest standards, but preparing to receive millions of people would take decades.
-It gives us a planet to mine and build on without sovereignty conflicts, whether it's a super fortress or other facility.
-It gives us a planet for Iris to activate the Wyld based generator without fear of harming people if it escapes containment somehow(I preemptively blame Simurgh).

Overall, I believe dimensional access is the most valuable option present. An earth which is habitable but not inhabited by any humans is very nearly ideal for our purposes.
 
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