Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 23: We Wonder Where Who Wanders When Watchers Wane

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So I was revisiting the idea of exalting Dragon and came across an odd thought. Can we give Dragon a Soul? And would that soul help in preventing the whole Ascalon thing from becoming a problem? The whole thing about having a soul gem is so that the soul is preserved even after death so I wouldn't see a problem if her backup were to retrieve the soul gem and just stick it back into her new head should she fall after all.
Several other people have chimed in on this to explain why it would be problematic, so I'll just focus on one point that hasn't really been brought up: the Soulgem Injector process gives someone a HUMAN soul, with its Hun and Po components. That means the person receiving it has to be close enough for the process to identify them as Human (very difficult to swing for Dragon and some Case 53s), and they would then be limited to all the standard Human frailties that were built into a Human soul by the Primordials - the biggest one, of course, being the NO TRUE RESURRECTIONS rule (which would fly in the face of Dragon's AI-self backups).
So if we stick Iris in the MotDG, will that mean he has to restart the timer for the demesne creation?
It fudges up the timer a bit, but not a full restart - it really depends on what happens during the subsequent fight, but at the worst he'd lose about a day or two of progress as long as he's brought back to where he was working on converting.
Huh. Managed to tie to what I was working with better than I thought I'd get it.

If it's in color or bolded, that'd be where I diverged. Well, at one remove for Malfeas, since infinite growth + infinite shrinkage = infinite stasis.
Again, this is Iris' calculations and considerations, not objective fact. Of course, it's pretty dang close to the truth, since Iris is no dummy and he had a lot of time to watch and think things through - for this Quest's purposes, his statement should suffice as the final say on the matter.
Still. Dang. That's...poor Lord Grasp. Also, poor Infernal and Cenotaph, if our resident Malfeas and Ebon Dragon charm user ever gets seen by Iris.

Does Iris mean that as the collection noun the Yozi, or is he referring to a singular Yozi?
Yes.
While I'm not sure of how @Gromweld would have played those events out, it boils down to this: they played out the way they did because you had the armour and could tank the bullet, could go toe to toe with a (sandbagging) Behemoth.

It is the exact same thing. Bonesaw is around because you wanted your woobie, and yes, it allows the narrative to go in different directions than otherwise it would go if you didn't have Bonesaw. No Bonesaw means Gromweld would go a different route for certain things to possibly happen.

IAT or no IAT means the same thing. The narrative goes in a different directions.
Just quoting it because it's true; I try to shape the story to play to our strengths and weaknesses, rather than keeping to a strict plot path. My biggest concern, in this way, is that we've rapidly run into the problem of having too much awesome powers/abilities, so it's difficult finding the time to showing it all off without turning Taylor & Co. into rampant Mary Sue-esque protagonists. Hopefully I've struck something of a balance, but it's something that occupies a lot of my headspace when writing and plotting.
beyond me having to tell @Gromweld he's doing it wrong when he's, you know, doing it wrong. Whatever 'it' is.

Taylor: The Author realised that with the previous timetable he wouldn't be done writing the story until his late 40s at the earliest.

Costa-Brown: Be serious.

Taylor: Sorry sorry. Bad joke.
Basically. I expected this to only take a year IRL - two, at tops. Real Life has been the major timesink, I know, but I'm going to be putting more in-universe pressure to get things moving just so I'm able to finish the story at all.
Now, now Iris, you are allowed to be mad but it's pronounced demesne...

As for the chapter part, I would like to state a few words, damn Valor 5 spirits. Thank you.
Google Docs had the spelling wrong for some reason and auto-corrected. Weird, and means I probably saved the wrong spelling manually into the dictionary at some point. Fixed the story and my own dictionary, thanks!
I gotta wonder how the peripherally affiliated PRT Directors are viewing all this. I mean, they get outlandish reports of an overpowered Ward Case 53 doing...odd things (generally helpful, but odd all the same), then she starts to bring out friends. And the friends she brings out are increasingly powerful, to the point where one of them is at or near Triumverate level, Weaver's flipped at least two S-class threats to become S-class assets (handle with care) that they can sic on former problems (like Ash Beast, the Endbringers, etc), I'm sure there's proposals to include Bonesaw on a list of potential assets to counter Nilbog somehow (I mean, I doubt they're making use of her in this fashion but they've gotta be giving it serious consideration at least, right?) and the latest came out with what looks to be an absolutely horrific set of Master/Thinker abilities and a narcissistic doom scorpion-bot that can mulch tanks without breaking a sweat, but then you have things like the odd sphere that Weaver keeps treating like her boss goes ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL over a major city.

Weaver is the Monkey's Paw that lays the golden eggs.
Any one of these events, alone, wouldn't have raised too many eyebrows - the PRT's been around a while, and ~40 years of parahumans means lots of weird shit has come and gone before. It's the constant, increasingly-powerful instances of absurdity that are sending up the most alarms, and the PRT is sort of scrambling to figure out what to do about it all, since the one-off rules that have been designed to handle each separate Weird Thing are usually mutually exclusive.
Just woke up. First impression.

Iris: "What would be the worst possible way to inform Lord Grasp that Creation and everything he loves is destroyed, tell Saki that Bonesaw is around working for us now?"
Iris: "I know! I will just do what Viator did! That guy is such an awesome diplomat!"
Lord Grasp called him a Yozi Sympathizer. The only reason Lord Grasp still exists is because Iris determined that he's crucial to the Assembly's success.

Do Not Taunt The Happy Fun Ball.
Question! @Gromweld, can we move Iris? I mean is he going to create the Demesne here and now, or could we move him closer to the Cradle or another desired location? Or is this just a "punishment" for waiting too long?
Taylor has more info than we do at the moment, but it's going to be revealed in-story (a lot of it in the next Part) so I'm not going to repeat it here. Suffice to say that where we want Iris to make the first demesne will one of the vote options for 9.5, but by default Taylor is just going to plop him on the Cradle so that he's not an albatross around her neck.
At worst, it means that the first time Dragon dies, she dies for good. If it was that easy to just take a soulgem and stick it to another body, they would do that with dead alchemicals all the time. Instead, new alchemicals are new persons, with very high Eidolon required to remember the previous life (and it IS a previous life for normal alchemicals).
In-universe, Taylor & Co. are of the firm belief that their continuity of consciousness and fully-intact memory of their meatrobot life means that their Alchemical selves are the same people they were before. THIS IS NOT NORMAL. Even the very first eight Alchemicals made - which Autochthon himself forged from the Eight Great Heroes that were helping keep everyone safe/sane when Autochthon first absconded into Elsewhere - had only one past life in their soulgems when they were forged and came out different people. This is because Alchemicals are still human in soul and spirit, and thus follow the NO RESURRECTIONS rule put in place when Auto and the other Primordials crafted the human soul template.

So the question becomes: Did Autochthon break the NO RESURRECTIONS rule through some loophole involving the Nowhereverse? Or are Taylor & Co. delusional and the POD PEOPLE fear is founded? The only person who would know for certain is Autochthon, and his statements during the Exaltation visions certainly imply one answer... but is that the actual truth, or just something he says to instill faith in his Nowhereverse agents? JET FUEL CAN'T MELT STEEL BEAMS.

Possibly. Worth remembering that the shard-charms are alive and somewhat sapient. Its possible that just like Taylors shard-charm WANTS to be kept on, and requires Willpower and Temperance to be kept off, Prayers shard-charm wants to work with armor and weapons. Still, Adamant clothing would not be that massive a shift (and you could argue that it IS armor of sort), that maybe she could. Ofcourse, the things she creates are not permanent so it would work only for her.
Adamant clothing would be possible, yes, but it would still count as 'armor' for the sake of Clarity generation.
Though I wonder. When Prayer handed a spear of Adamant to VoV, VoV converted it easily to soulsteel. If we wanted to have a set of permanent Adamant armor/weapons/clothes, would it be easier for Prayer to create them, and then Iris make it permanent (somehow), than it would be for Iris to create Adamant from scratch. With the Prayer-made items, the Autochton made shard-charm designed specifically to create Adamant would have already done most of the work afterall, and Iris would just have to prevent it from dissipating. Possible way to get Adamant slightly more easily?
This is a possibility, yes. Taylor didn't have time to try it over the week since Prayer and Defiant were cavorting about the planet, but it's something to keep in mind for when Iris finishes accelerating the Plot.

Maybe, but I would not bet on it. Remember, soulgems are only containers for Hun souls, and Iris is the one who has the souls. Now its possibe that he left behind some soulgems prefilled with hun souls during the research before shutdown, so there is perhaps a possibility that we can choose one or two people to give souls to. However unless we can somehow access his Hun-Soul storage (not sure how that would be possible), we won't be giving souls in large amounts until Iris is finished.
We have a sizable stash (100+) of soulgems filled with Hun souls. If we need more, there's probably something going on important enough to interrupt Iris for it.
-That entire meeting was almost certainly recorded, which means that they would have caught both Crushing Grasp's temper tantrum, and Iris Abbreviated History of The Fall of Creation.And since there is an Old Realm translator, they can confirm what was said without resorting to having an Alchemical translation.
Note the parts about maddened Exalts: if other Celestials show up in-universe, the PRT is going to freak.
All of what Iris said was understandable by everyone that was frozen - Iris didn't want to deal with possible translation errors or trust issues. For those wondering why Vision of Vengeance only spoke in Old Realm, Vision gave exactly NULL fucks about the specks of dust around him and their limited capacity for understanding true language.
Huh.
So something new went wrong between Prayer's Exaltation and that of the Twins.
Which suggests that sending Sakura to Estasia might actually be Autobot improvising with available resources, and not part of the original plan.
An unlimited range teleporter has strategic implications for the Alchemicals of Autochtonia, even barring her PR capabilities; just the logistics alone.....
There was a hint at just exactly what went wrong in Saki's vision.
Heh.
So that's Miss Militia, Prayer and Legend as the only three possible combatants, and two are Blasters in a small room with a high-level Brute/Blaster.
They'd have gotten ripped apart, wouldn't they?
Well, Prayer would have survived it....
Legend would have absconded with the squishy meatbags before returning himself, since Prayer would have been able to survive in the meantime.
It does mean that in his two days of absence from Saki's side, he didn't actually spend any time interrogating Prayer about the current state of affairs in his new area of operations, or determining who his new allies were.
That was remarkably careless of a Primordial War vet.
Taylor and Prayer were deliberately hiding/obfuscating Iris and his power, at Iris' request - Iris' existence is still largely a secret to everyone, and he sorta prefers it that way since it generally allows him to work/act in peace.
Also note the implication that Taylor knows, in some detail, what happened to Creation.
Iris' initial "Exaltation Guide Book" briefly mentioned that their 'home reality' was gone, and Iris filled in a few more gaps over the last week, but since it was largely irrelevant to the task at-hand he didn't bother explaining the whole thing (he doesn't like thinking about it, too).

Philadelphia to New York is ~100 miles, which is where Miss Milita, Legend, Prayer, Grasp and Saki are.
Philly to DC is ~140 miles, which is one possible location for RCB.
Philadelphia to Los Angeles is ~2400 miles, another possible location for RCB.
Philadelphia to Vancouver is ~3000 miles, which is where Dragon is based.

And Iris just wololo'd the lot of them casually.
There may or may not have been an infinitesimal moment where Iris was confused about Dragon, but then went "Oh, Nowhereverse version of I AM ok no big deal."
I wonder what Chevy saw this time.
Chevalier only sees impressions of trigger events from shards, and some wonky stuff from converted shards. Iris himself is neither of those.
And if Taylor can absorb him into TIE while he's in low-power, because you can bet some moron will think to attempt a sphere-napping.
Sure, but that interrupts Demesne creation in the meantime. However, Iris is no longer putzing around on a long time scale where he has time to sit and gather data - he's not going to just sit by and let things happen to him anymore, even if it means letting lose the map-redrawing moves.
:(:cry:
What a way to learn that your entire existence, and the deaths of your friends, were for naught.
Poor dude. At least comforting him will give Saki her first opportunity to intentionally use her powers.
It's worth remembering that Lord Grasp went through an even worse time-skip than Saki; for him, the party after the Primordial War, in which he had spent hundreds/thousands of years (time got weird for a bit in there) participating, was only three days ago.
@Gromweld, just noticed these:

Still a thing? Should I add them (or some of them) to the wiki? Or have you changed your mind?
Sure, add them to the list.
@Gromweld, next crazy question. :p

You say in SoPA writeup for Spirit Attunement Generators that: "The exception to this sub-module are dormant spirits - usually least gods and lesser gods within objects - which the user must consciously identify, then rouse in order to bring them under the charm's sway."

You also state (2327891) that "Alchemical charms are physical artifacts, and thus have lesser gods within them. It's how they're 'learning' about Nowhereverse rules, even if they aren't fully awoken.".

As an Alchemical Exalt, we should obviously follow the wise example of our 5 dot mentor and be willing to do SCIENCE, so I was just wondering. What happens if Taylor uses SoPA to rouse to awareness the lesser god in her TIE charm artifact, takes control of it with SoPA, and forcibly makes it eat another Dragon Suit whether the TIE charm likes it or not?
Feel free to try that in-story...


Truthfully, its a bit unclear. Iris apparently has an abnormally small max mote pool, which is why stuff such as injecting him with more essence via Sakis hypodermic won't really help. Ofcourse I don't really understand how he is collecting Essence then?
You have to be able to pierce/puncture a person to give them motes with Personality Override Spike. Don't expect that to work with Iris.

Iris is actually quite vulnerable, and they know it. Just kill Taylor (or separate them), and he becomes an inert ball, that can't do anything. That was the whole reason he did not just kill S9 immediately and return on his own.
He'll have you know that the S9 was quite a valuable source of data, despite their wasteful and inefficient tactics, and it served his purposes quite well to be carted around by them. The dresses, hats, and tea time were, of course, completely unconscionable.
 
Google Docs had the spelling wrong for some reason and auto-corrected. Weird, and means I probably saved the wrong spelling manually into the dictionary at some point. Fixed the story and my own dictionary, thanks!
Pretty sure both are valid words at some point.
Taylor has more info than we do at the moment, but it's going to be revealed in-story (a lot of it in the next Part) so I'm not going to repeat it here. Suffice to say that where we want Iris to make the first demesne will one of the vote options for 9.5, but by default Taylor is just going to plop him on the Cradle so that he's not an albatross around her neck.
Good to know! As predicted then.
So the question becomes: Did Autochthon break the NO RESURRECTIONS rule through some loophole involving the Nowhereverse? Or are Taylor & Co. delusional and the POD PEOPLE fear is founded? The only person who would know for certain is Autochthon, and his statements during the Exaltation visions certainly imply one answer... but is that the actual truth, or just something he says to instill faith in his Nowhereverse agents?
Didn't Autochton invent the No Resurrections rule to begin with when he made them? I think it was something intrinsic his themes that "No takebacksies, but you can make a new model" is likely to be inherent to what he built.
We have a sizable stash (100+) of soulgems filled with Hun souls. If we need more, there's probably something going on important enough to interrupt Iris for it.
Figured. We got enough to ensoul a fairly large number of people then!
Never have I been so glad to lose a vote!
There was a hint at just exactly what went wrong in Saki's vision.
Time to reread that again....
There may or may not have been an infinitesimal moment where Iris was confused about Dragon, but then went "Oh, Nowhereverse version of I AM ok no big deal."
Iris da best
Chevalier only sees impressions of trigger events from shards, and some wonky stuff from converted shards. Iris himself is neither of those.
Unless Iris doing that triggered some of the Directors and general non-parahuman audience!
Sure, but that interrupts Demesne creation in the meantime. However, Iris is no longer putzing around on a long time scale where he has time to sit and gather data - he's not going to just sit by and let things happen to him anymore, even if it means letting lose the map-redrawing moves.
Oh huh, interesting that we can't store him.

I assume parking him on the Cradle also deals with the power cut when Taylor enters Saki's Secret Place? Since he can get a mote trickle directly.
 
Shards probably won't like it either, so what has been happening with Lisa might start happening more to some extent (subtle sabotage as thinkers start getting more negative results).
Oh yeah.

Explicitly false. Gromweld had answered this previously, the whole problem was Lisa going into a false assumption loop, reinforced by her power. It's basically the same as Alexandria mucking up the canon Taylor meeting. She's missing required information and has used the gap to build a tower with a keystone missing.

Most of the shards are going "Ooo, new data!"
 
Did anyone mention the possibility of turning Dragon into a spirit or lesser god? Both the possibility of doing this and whether or not it is worth it or just unchaining Dragon.
 
Well, with two Combat Monsters in the Assembly, we'd have less to worry about while Iris is off doing stuff.
Experience has taught me that Taylor will never not have to deal with S-class combat.
Both for narrative reasons, and because she has always been a trouble magnet, even in canon.

I fully expect to need to have multiple Assembly members handling multiple concurrent crises and combat situations at the same time; at best, we'll get one full Assembly vs Endbringer battle before they get smart and we start seeing multiple simultaneous attacks requiring teams of two or three Alchemicals to handle.

Or the shard network goes into a frenzy at all the new data coming in and spawns bigger and bigger threats to challenge the new paradigm.
Or heck, we get actual rogue elementals/void spirits showing up as things get more congenial.

Lord Grasp called him a Yozi Sympathizer. The only reason Lord Grasp still exists is because Iris determined that he's crucial to the Assembly's success.
Do Not Taunt The Happy Fun Ball.
Words to live by.
So the question becomes: Did Autochthon break the NO RESURRECTIONS rule through some loophole involving the Nowhereverse? Or are Taylor & Co. delusional and the POD PEOPLE fear is founded? The only person who would know for certain is Autochthon, and his statements during the Exaltation visions certainly imply one answer... but is that the actual truth, or just something he says to instill faith in his Nowhereverse agents? JET FUEL CAN'T MELT STEEL BEAMS.
*Twilight Zone theme intensifies*
Adamant clothing would be possible, yes, but it would still count as 'armor' for the sake of Clarity generation.
At least she no longer has a reason to go around starkers when she sheds her armor.
Yes, Prayer, we know back home you went hunting in only a loincloth, but this is 'Murika.

Note that there is actual Exalted canon precedent for armor looking like clothes; the Deathlord known as the Bodhisattva Anointed By Dark Waters did just that:
THE BODHISATTVA ANOINTED BY DARK WATER
This Deathlord currently takes the form of a tall man clad in robes of bladelike plates of silver-washed, razor-edged soulsteel. (These robes act like soulsteel superheavy plate armor but have no mobility or fatigue penalties.) He wears a mask of opal and has a short sword belted at his side.
When he draws this weapon, it expands into a soulsteel grand daiklave.
*SNIP*
Soak: 22L/27B (Glittering Shadow, soulsteel superheavy plate/bloodspike harness, +17L/17B, Hardness: 11L/11B)
Even the very first eight Alchemicals made - which Autochthon himself forged from the Eight Great Heroes that were helping keep everyone safe/sane when Autochthon first absconded into Elsewhere - had only one past life in their soulgems when they were forged and came out different people. This is because Alchemicals are still human in soul and spirit, and thus follow the NO RESURRECTIONS rule put in place when Auto and the other Primordials crafted the human soul template.
This is inaccurate.
See the history of Luminous Exarch, the first Exalt of Estasia
HISTORY
Estasia herself was a diplomat, warrior and adventurer at a time when Creation was savage and untamed. Adopted into the Tiger Warrior army of a vassal of the Solar Queen, she abandoned that charge to help a titan escape doom, charging through the greatest mortal adventure Creation had ever seen. She never forgot her training or her former masters, and spread tales of them into her old age in the new world her people found themselves in.

Estasia returned to lead her people to greatness, reborn as Luminous Exarch, the Twice-Exalted. Free of the constraint of mortality, the Champion remembered not only his past life as Estasia, but as a Solar Exalt during the Primordial War, killed in the closing days of the epoch. Exarch's Eidolon was not a quiet and humanizing hum of gentle impulses, but a thunderous clarion of manifest destiny. Within a few short years, he had forged his people into a nomadic army, bent on conquest.
TL;DR
She used to be a Solar Exalt in a past life, and it strongly colored her Alchemical viewpoint as a guy, and the society he built.

So the question becomes: Did Autochthon break the NO RESURRECTIONS rule through some loophole involving the Nowhereverse? Or are Taylor & Co. delusional and the POD PEOPLE fear is founded? The only person who would know for certain is Autochthon, and his statements during the Exaltation visions certainly imply one answer... but is that the actual truth, or just something he says to instill faith in his Nowhereverse agents? JET FUEL CAN'T MELT STEEL BEAMS.
Could he lie? Sure.
Would he? Given that he knows from personal experience how Exalts tend to respond to being used?

All of what Iris said was understandable by everyone that was frozen - Iris didn't want to deal with possible translation errors or trust issues. For those wondering why Vision of Vengeance only spoke in Old Realm, Vision gave exactly NULL fucks about the specks of dust around him and their limited capacity for understanding true language.
There may or may not have been an infinitesimal moment where Iris was confused about Dragon, but then went "Oh, Nowhereverse version of I AM ok no big deal."
As if they needed more reason to freak.
Would it be asking too much to hope that Geoffrey Pellick got mind-freamed along with everyone else paying attention to the meeting?:drevil:

Taylor and Prayer were deliberately hiding/obfuscating Iris and his power, at Iris' request - Iris' existence is still largely a secret to everyone, and he sorta prefers it that way since it generally allows him to work/act in peace.
Really?
After Jacob Rodrigo debuted him on national TV?
Okay.
It's worth remembering that Lord Grasp went through an even worse time-skip than Saki; for him, the party after the Primordial War, in which he had spent hundreds/thousands of years (time got weird for a bit in there) participating, was only three days ago.
Y'know, every damn person in our Assembly is emotional walking wounded.

Iris obviously is still traumatized by the death of Creation.
Taylor only seems to have moved beyond her trauma until she mentions stuff like kidnapping a dragonsuit to prove to her friend Dragon that she can be trusted with her secret.

Prayer got to the point that she recognized the constant pain of broken bones as the cost of simply living.
The Twins lost their family and limbs.
Aisha is carefully concealing the trauma of the loss of her father and mother.

And Grasp just discovered he lost everything and everyone he ever knew.
Not because they fell fighting, but because they rotted from within.
Damn
:(:(
 
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This is inaccurate.
See the history of Luminous Exarch, the first Exalt of Estasia
HISTORY
Estasia herself was a diplomat, warrior and adventurer at a time when Creation was savage and untamed. Adopted into the Tiger Warrior army of a vassal of the Solar Queen, she abandoned that charge to help a titan escape doom, charging through the greatest mortal adventure Creation had ever seen. She never forgot her training or her former masters, and spread tales of them into her old age in the new world her people found themselves in.

Estasia returned to lead her people to greatness, reborn as Luminous Exarch, the Twice-Exalted. Free of the constraint of mortality, the Champion remembered not only his past life as Estasia, but as a Solar Exalt during the Primordial War, killed in the closing days of the epoch. Exarch's Eidolon was not a quiet and humanizing hum of gentle impulses, but a thunderous clarion of manifest destiny. Within a few short years, he had forged his people into a nomadic army, bent on conquest.
TL;DR
She used to be a Solar Exalt in a past life, and it strongly colored her Alchemical viewpoint as a guy, and the society he built.
The point I was trying to make was that even the very first soulgem-infused people and Alchemicals didn't have continuity of self through the Exaltation process... so yeah.
Could he lie? Sure.
Would he? Given that he knows from personal experience how Exalts tend to respond to being used?
It is not an ineffable mind if you can eff it.
Would it be asking too much to hope that Geoffrey Pellick got mind-freamed along with everyone else paying attention to the meeting?:drevil:
Who knows? Maybe he was doing laundry at the time?
Really?
After Jacob Rodrigo debuted him on national TV?
Okay.
Everyone saw a big black ball sitting on some pillows, sure, and Jack raving like an insane zealot. Consider that, most of the time, Iris is shrunk down to the size of a basketball and in his little modron/personality core chassis, and when Vision was doing its thing it was housed within a big suit of armor (and Taylor's chest cavity). Outside of a handful of people, if you asked someone who "Iris of Innovation" was they'd have no idea who/what you're talking about or that Iris is some kind of big deal.
 
The point I was trying to make was that even the very first soulgem-infused people and Alchemicals didn't have continuity of self through the Exaltation process... so yeah.

Pardon me if I'm misunderstanding, but the first Alchemicals had souls before being Exalted. The Nowhereverse humans don't actually have souls at all, so they aren't strictly speaking subject to the No Resurrections rule.
 
Lord Grasp called him a Yozi Sympathizer. The only reason Lord Grasp still exists is because Iris determined that he's crucial to the Assembly's success.

Do Not Taunt The Happy Fun Ball.
On the one hand, LOL Lord Grasp learning valuable life lessons.

OTOH...this does kind of flat out contradict Lord Grasp's backstory since it simply does not work as him being one of the foremost bastions for the Exalted host on the friggin' front lines of the War in Heaven if he wasn't capable of surviving the casual ire of a 3rd Circle Deva.
 
Pardon me if I'm misunderstanding, but the first Alchemicals had souls before being Exalted. The Nowhereverse humans don't actually have souls at all, so they aren't strictly speaking subject to the No Resurrections rule.
Sticking a person into the Cradle to convert them leaves a body. Compare this to Autochthonia, where removing a soulgem 'normally' (done as punishment for the worst criminals) leaves the person still alive in a 'fate worse than death' scenario.
OTOH...this does kind of flat out contradict Lord Grasp's backstory since it simply does not work as him being one of the foremost bastions for the Exalted host on the friggin' front lines of the War in Heaven if he wasn't capable of surviving the casual ire of a 3rd Circle Deva.
Lord Grasp falls under Iris' themes, so there's weaknesses there where none of the other Primordial forces would have been able to exploit. Additionally, Lord Grasp was always being supported by other Exalted and their charms so he rarely had to face the big hitters without any support. Still, yeah - Iris would have had to actually try to get at Lord Grasp seriously, and even then it would have been an extended exchange during which he probably would have been talked down by the Assembly.
 
Not entirely accurate.
Yes, Agg makes killing EBs much easier. No, you don't need Agg to kill one.
Sufficiently massive damage will do the trick(Hey Prayer), as will tinkertech/shard/dimensional effects like the one Flechette does.
Or we could simply do the same thing that Ziz did in canon that allowed her sword to ignore Leviathan's soak and strike his core.
Aggravating damage is infact soaked by armour, which is effectively what most of the endbringer is.

There is a problem with trying to kill them via direct damage, given galaxy level durability. You need some way around that. As far as I knoww Alchemials don't have any way to bypass Soak (and maybe hardness).
 
Doesn't the soul leave the gem after a few weeks/months?
I remember that being a thing nobody apparently picked up on.
No it doesn't.
That's why in Autochtonia, nation-states launch expeditions and give awards for the soulgems of Alchemical Exalted who were killed in the field, no matter how long ago.And why the canon Viator had the soulgems of multiple Exalted studded around his armor as trophies.
Aggravating damage is infact soaked by armour, which is effectively what most of the endbringer is.
Natural soak actually.
There is a problem with trying to kill them via direct damage, given galaxy level durability. You need some way around that. As far as I knoww Alchemials don't have any way to bypass Soak (and maybe hardness).
The canon Alchemical charmset has everything you need, though it required a second look for someone like me to notice.
I quote:
ESSENCE IRRADIATION CORONA

Cost: 2m
Mins: Strength 2, Essence 3
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Any Physical Attribute Augmentation
Four collapsible prongs are housed in one of the Exalt's limbs. When activated, they rise up and arc forward, bathing his attacking limb or weapon in an unstable Essence field that explodes upon contact with an enemy. Any attack enhanced by this Charm converts one die of its post-soak damage into an automatic success and counts each 10 on the roll as two successes.
Submodules:
Optimized Trauma Upgrade (Strength 3, 3xp): A red jade coating applied to the Charm's emitter arrays render its Essence field especially volatile. An attack enhanced by this submodule adds one die to its post-soak damage.
Field Stabilization Fins (Strength 4, 3xp): Retractable white jade fins adorn the Charm's emitter prongs, stabilizing its Essence field. An attack enhanced by this submodule adds three dice to its raw damage.
Motonic Reactor Discharge (Strength 4, Essence 4): The Alchemical's Essence Irradiation Corona gains the Stackable keyword, and can be activated up to (Essence / 2) times to enhance a single attack.
You are guaranteed 1 die of post-soak damage for 2m at E3, or at E5, 3 die of post-soak damage for 6m.
That gives you a 50% chance of doing at least 1L of damage at E2, or somewhere around 2L of damage at E5.
Per attack that hits.

You can viably beat an Endbringer to death with this, without adding any other charms; they don't really have much in the way of combat-time regen, which is why both Behemoth and Leviathan got ganked by Scion.

Frankly, this would have been enough to beat Siberian, since any damage that passed her Hardness/Soak would pop her like a soap bubble.
And the only prereq is a Physical Aug, which ALL our Exalts get because we need to install 4th Stamina for ISF. Prayer came with it as standard, and we could put it on everyone.

Taylor deploying that through a swarm would be fucking horrifying; you'd just need to get her to Strength 2 to qualify for it.

And that's before dipping into Martial Arts, which has all sorts of lovely things; Fire Dragon Style for example, has the E3 charm Smoldering Wound Attack
SMOLDERING WOUND ATTACK
Cost: 4m; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 3; Type: Supplemental Keywords: Combo-OK Duration: Varies Prerequisite Charms: Overwhelming Fire Majesty Stance
The Immaculate endows a single wound with slow-burning Essence. If he successfully damages his opponent, the wound smolders like a dying fire. On the Immaculate's following action, the Charm's victim suffers any post-soak damage again. Soak does not apply to the second instance of damage.
Basically you can fire off your doom combo, and then repeat the post-soak damage for 4m.
Or you look at Thousand Gears Style, which has a capstone that threepeats a successful attack.
Or Celestial Crane, whose capstone gives (+Essence) post-soak bashing damage and -1 Willpower to any counterattack, and allows you to brainwash your opponent.

We can do this without Agg.

Frankly, I'm beginning to think that for thematic reasons, we might want to avoid giving our combat monsters dedicated Agg until E4.
Let the only people with Agg at E3 be the less combat optimized characters like the Twins(Throne Shadow) and maybe Aisha(Snake); gives a reason to bring them to combat besides search and rescue.

TL;DR
Alchemicals are horrifying to face on the other side of the battlefield if they even make a half-arsed attempt.
 
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At least she no longer has a reason to go around starkers when she sheds her armor.
Yes, Prayer, we know back home you went hunting in only a loincloth, but this is 'Murika.

Note that there is actual Exalted canon precedent for armor looking like clothes; the Deathlord known as the Bodhisattva Anointed By Dark Waters did just that:

There's probably a perfectly good reason why she keeps stripping: She spent YEARS caged inside a shell.

I imagine simply going around naked when it's reasonably socially acceptable would feel more comfortable to her.
 
There's probably a perfectly good reason why she keeps stripping: She spent YEARS caged inside a shell.
I imagine simply going around naked when it's reasonably socially acceptable would feel more comfortable to her.
I can just see the headlines...
TMZ EXCLUSIVE! TOP ALCHEMICAL AGENT SKINNY-DIPPING PICS!
Prayer stuns with divine loveliness​
Because you know it would happen.
 
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Natural soak actually.
It doesn't really make sense to me for the endbringers not to have aggravated soak.

The canon Alchemical charmset has everything you need, though it required a second look for someone like me to notice.
I quote:You are guaranteed 1 die of post-soak damage for 2m at E3, or at E5, 3 die of post-soak damage for 6m.
That gives you a 50% chance of doing at least 1L of damage at E2, or somewhere around 2L of damage at E5.
Per attack that hits.

You can viably beat an Endbringer to death with this, without adding any other charms; they don't really have much in the way of combat-time regen, which is why both Behemoth and Leviathan got ganked by Scion.
We could possibly do it if they stood still and didn't try to kill us. We are effectively using our health pool as fuel for our abilities.

Prayer has about 50 motes available, that means about 100L dice at the max. The effective amount we can use it is lower than that, as we need to repeatedly use a perfect defense when fighting them.

(I don't know how any health levels they have. I am just going to guess 200 since they have 200 different layers. :V)

Frankly, this would have been enough to beat Siberian, since any damage that passed her Hardness/Soak would pop her like a soap bubble.
And the only prereq is a Physical Aug, which ALL our Exalts get because we need to install 4th Stamina for ISF. Prayer came with it as standard, and we could put it on everyone.

Taylor deploying that through a swarm would be fucking horrifying; you'd just need to get her to Strength 2 to qualify for it.
Manton would just recreate the siberian when it is destroyed, its useful but wouldn't beat it.

And that's before dipping into Martial Arts, which has all sorts of lovely things; Fire Dragon Style for example, has the E3 charm Smoldering Wound Attack
Basically you can fire off your doom combo, and then repeat the post-soak damage for 4m.
Or you look at Thousand Gears Style, which has a capstone that threepeats a successful attack.
Or Celestial Crane, whose capstone gives (+Essence) post-soak bashing damage and -1 Willpower to any counterattack, and allows you to brainwash your opponent.
Fire Dragon style is one of the Immaculate styles and was made well after Autocthon left creation. It requires us to do damage in the first place, and isn't really mote efficient used with Essence Irradiation Corona(until essence 5).

You will have to explain the others 2 carms to me.
 
It doesn't really make sense to me for the endbringers not to have aggravated soak.
Why would they? The closest thing to aggravated damage in this setting is Scion's Golden Fuck You Beam - Corrosive edition, which would conduct through your body to burn you up incrementally(which obviously has benefits when it hits armor you can purge, but not bodyparts).

Nothing in Nowhere differentiates between innate and external resilience, except it's actually more effective to have innate resilience as a construct.
It's like asking why a medieval civilization has no counter for aerial assaults. It's not a threat they are going to have encountered. Normal physics just doesn't work like that, while we know Foil's power(which selectively suspends physics on the point of her weapon) DOES penetrate Endbringer soak all the way the core.
 
It fudges up the timer a bit, but not a full restart - it really depends on what happens during the subsequent fight, but at the worst he'd lose about a day or two of progress as long as he's brought back to where he was working on converting.

I wonder if there will be any effect from having Iris (and him potentially able to transfer more Nowhereverse knowledge to Auto better) in the Cradle when we next exalt people?

Taylor has more info than we do at the moment, but it's going to be revealed in-story (a lot of it in the next Part) so I'm not going to repeat it here. Suffice to say that where we want Iris to make the first demesne will one of the vote options for 9.5, but by default Taylor is just going to plop him on the Cradle so that he's not an albatross around her neck.

Cool. Thats probably the best place.

In-universe, Taylor & Co. are of the firm belief that their continuity of consciousness and fully-intact memory of their meatrobot life means that their Alchemical selves are the same people they were before. THIS IS NOT NORMAL. Even the very first eight Alchemicals made - which Autochthon himself forged from the Eight Great Heroes that were helping keep everyone safe/sane when Autochthon first absconded into Elsewhere - had only one past life in their soulgems when they were forged and came out different people. This is because Alchemicals are still human in soul and spirit, and thus follow the NO RESURRECTIONS rule put in place when Auto and the other Primordials crafted the human soul template.

So the question becomes: Did Autochthon break the NO RESURRECTIONS rule through some loophole involving the Nowhereverse? Or are Taylor & Co. delusional and the POD PEOPLE fear is founded? The only person who would know for certain is Autochthon, and his statements during the Exaltation visions certainly imply one answer... but is that the actual truth, or just something he says to instill faith in his Nowhereverse agents? JET FUEL CAN'T MELT STEEL BEAMS.

Eh, this is kinda semantics in a way, and actually has come up with before. I have been going through all your posts (as is probably obvious), and found an awesome comic yesterday. Link here for those who havent seen it: The Machine

If we assume that Nowhereverse has no "greater" souls beyond the tangible ones that Auto can give, then Alchemical Taylor with memories of everything that made Taylor, Taylor, is still basically Taylor (or close enough) to be considered Taylor. The rest is basically philosophy. However you can't really have it both ways, so if Taylor would be considered to have "died", then arguably everytime Strider (and possibly doormaker, though since he opens more of a door maybe not) teleports people, he kills them and just creates new people in the new spot (or resurrects the people he simultaneously killed). (or you can even take it to the greater extremes as in the comic above).

This is a possibility, yes. Taylor didn't have time to try it over the week since Prayer and Defiant were cavorting about the planet, but it's something to keep in mind for when Iris finishes accelerating the Plot.

Cool. Adamant weaponry would be pretty nice. Or Adamant clothes for our friends. Or basic adamant artifacts. Adamant Trinkets of Dignified Conduct would be pretty nice social aid for everyone in assembly (though commitment issues I guess).

We have a sizable stash (100+) of soulgems filled with Hun souls. If we need more, there's probably something going on important enough to interrupt Iris for it.

Thank you! :)

Since the soulgem injector won, and since we have so many soulgems, do we possibly get a vote on who to offer these to in the (near?) future? Or will each require a free action?

Sure, add them to the list.

Cool, will add them today.

Feel free to try that in-story...


...

That shark is obviously smiling at our success! Lets go for it!

You have to be able to pierce/puncture a person to give them motes with Personality Override Spike. Don't expect that to work with Iris.

No, but it would work on Taylor right? And it does say this on the first page:
- Iris (True Form), within SoPA range: Respiration stopped, essence drained by 1/minute starting from Peripheral essence. If no essence can be drained, Willpower is instead drained by 1/minute. Stunts only regain Willpower.

So what would stop Iris from going to True Form, starting to drain Taylor dry of motes, and having Saki inject more motes (for Iris to absorb) to Taylor until Iris has absorbed everything. Then going to the vat-cocoon inside her safe space for faster regeneration, and then coming back to push more motes to Taylor->Iris? It might not be the most efficient use of Saki to do this 24/7, but I would think even say 20-40 motes extra each day would reduce the time required from 1001 hours to something less. Even moreso if Saki was willing to use POS to absorb motes from Prayer aswell to really give Iris every last mote possible.

Or for that matter just taking Iris to Sakis Essence filled dimension first to take a BIG GULP of Essence before taking him to the Cradle (or whatever location wins). Or having Taylor spend as much free time as possible meditating near Iris for more motes?

Why won't that work?


The point I was trying to make was that even the very first soulgem-infused people and Alchemicals didn't have continuity of self through the Exaltation process... so yeah.

True, but they also had pre-existing souls, so they had something predating the alchemical exaltation that transcended mere "meat". Taylor did not. So if Taylor died, and her soulgem was used to exalt a new alchemical, that obviously would not be Taylor. But since pre-exaltation Taylor had no such soul? Well, again we go to the comic above and the question of whether Strider (and all teleporters) just kill people enmasse. Either way, basically every meat robot we know is their real selves as much as Alchemical Taylor is the real Taylor. Or none of them are the original people they were born as, and have all been killed and replaced with new podpeople by Strider, and all are just as delusional in believing themselves to truly be themselves, as Alchemical!Taylor is in believing herself Taylor.


Aggravating damage is infact soaked by armour, which is effectively what most of the endbringer is.

Based on previous Word of Gromwels, aggravated damage in Nowhereverse is basically "magic", since theres nothing like it. So for example, while Sting may pierce through near everything, it is not aggravated damage. Scions Golden Beam is not aggravated damage. And so on. So no one in Nowhereverse can really deal with Agg damage, since its an entirely foreign thing to the entire reality. Could the Endbringers and shards potentially adapt eventually, as reality converts to Essence? Maybe? Maybe not? Hard to say.

But right now, its a type of attack that is utterly alien to them, and which they havent been created to handle at all. So it can apparently seriously hurts them.


I feel confident that Gromweld is comfortable with this course of action and is okay with us trying it. Let's go for it.

Well, based on the rules, it should work. I mean its kinda like Auto creating exalted to wipe out the primordials. That whole thing DID WORK!

Yeah, it also led to the utter annihilation of the entire exalted multiverse (which had existed for milliosn of years) a mere 5-6 millennia later, but you can't say that it did not do what Auto intended.

So there.

I mean what would really be the harm in utterly enraging one of the lesser gods attached to one of the charms in our body anyway? What could go wrong?
 
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Sure, but that interrupts Demesne creation in the meantime. However, Iris is no longer putzing around on a long time scale where he has time to sit and gather data - he's not going to just sit by and let things happen to him anymore, even if it means letting lose the map-redrawing moves.

Well then. Earth-Bet is even more fucked than usual, isn't it?
 
It doesn't really make sense to me for the endbringers not to have aggravated soak.
Endbringers are not Essenceverse creatures; they have no conception of Aggravated damage.
We could possibly do it if they stood still and didn't try to kill us. We are effectively using our health pool as fuel for our abilities.
Prayer has about 50 motes available, that means about 100L dice at the max. The effective amount we can use it is lower than that, as we need to repeatedly use a perfect defense when fighting them.
(I don't know how any health levels they have. I am just going to guess 200 since they have 200 different layers. :V)
That's not how it works.

Standard mote regen is 4m per turn during combat turns, as long as you're doing your standard 2-dice stunt.
For someone like Prayer, for whom stunting in an EB battle would resonate with her Motivation of proving worthy of Exaltation, she'd be regenning 6m per action.She could literally do it all day without running short of motes, if that's the only active charm she was spending motes on.

Activate Body Reweaving Matrix and ignore any incidental damage; only use a perfect when he throws a bigass move.

And no, you don't need to regularly use perfect defenses when fighting EBs; see Taylor who danced with Behemoth for half an hour without reinforcements at Dex 4.Prayer is Dex 7, with a maxed out Dodge and Parry, even before extruding weapons for the parry bonus.

She even managed to stay ahead of the Vision of Vengeance for a while, which is frankly incredible given what we know her canon stats are.

Manton would just recreate the siberian when it is destroyed, its useful but wouldn't beat it.
Manton does not agree with you; note how he dispelled Siberian to avoid getting punched by Prayer at the refinery.
The last time Manton took Essence damage, Siberian didn't come back to play until we hunted him/her down.

Fire Dragon style is one of the Immaculate styles and was made well after Autocthon left creation.
1) Iris was in Creation all along, passing from Solar to Lunar to DB to Sidereal and watching.
It's in Autobot's records, bet on it.

2) It is also canon that a lot of MAs were independently reinvented in Autochtonia.
That's what happens when you have a stable population of several thousand Celestial Exalts, with actual Essence 5+ Elder Exalts walking around for most of the First and Second Age.

It requires us to do damage in the first place, and isn't really mote efficient used with Essence Irradiation Corona(until essence 5).
See my point earlier about stunts and mote regen.
You will have to explain the others 2 carms to me.
Thousand Gears Style
Thousand Wounds Disassembly
Cost: 7m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 4; Type: Extra Action; Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious; Duration: Instant; Prerequisite Charms: Thousand Wounds Persistence

The martial artist's anima momentarily darkens, then compresses into a series of swirling arcs that trace the forthcoming path and intent of her attacks. A heartbeat later, her weapon follows. Targets rarely have time to scream. The martial artist makes one unarmed attack with her full dice pool as the first attack of a flurry. If the attack hits, two attacks follow. Those attacks automatically hit for the same number of successes as unblockable and undodgeable attacks.

Celestial Crane Style
Wisdom of the Celestial Crane
( p . 104; p . 24)
Cost: 3m, 1wp; Mins: Martial Arts 5, Essence 3;
Type: Reflexive (Step 1)
Keywords: Combo-OK, Emotion
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Feather-Stirred Arrow Deflection,
Kindly Sifu's Quill, Wings Spread to Sky

Replace the text of the Charm with the following:

The crane is sacred in its beauty, a bird of celestial splendor and serene grace. Such are the virtues that the Crane master may teach to his foes with this finishing move. Wisdom of the Celestial Crane can enhance any unarmed counterattack, adding (Essence) dice to its post-soak damage. An attack that successfully deals bashing damage also causes its victim to lose a point of Willpower.

A character who loses their last Willpower point this way or who is reduced to their Incapacitated health level by a supplemented attack instantly forms an Intimacy of love for Creation,as an irresistible unnatural Emotion
.
CMAs are scary.
 
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Why would they? The closest thing to aggravated damage in this setting is Scion's Golden Fuck You Beam - Corrosive edition, which would conduct through your body to burn you up incrementally(which obviously has benefits when it hits armor you can purge, but not bodyparts).

Nothing in Nowhere differentiates between innate and external resilience, except it's actually more effective to have innate resilience as a construct.
It's like asking why a medieval civilization has no counter for aerial assaults. It's not a threat they are going to have encountered. Normal physics just doesn't work like that, while we know Foil's power(which selectively suspends physics on the point of her weapon) DOES penetrate Endbringer soak all the way the core.

An ordinary and non-magical suit of armor gives you Aggrated soak equal to the Lethal.


I think Scion's stilling wave would count as ignoring Normal soak or hardness, due to how it works.
 
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An ordinary and non-magical suit of armor gives you Aggrated soak equal to the Lethal.
Endbringers do not wear armor.
We see them; they're naked.
The conceptual magic of Charms would not consider them as wearing armor.
I think Scion's stilling wave would count as ignoring soak, due to how it works.
No it wouldn't.
It took multiple shots to kill Behemoth. It took multiple shots to kill Leviathan.
That is not the behavior of shit that's doing direct health damage.

In Exalted terms, it's probably some variety of [Piercing], but it does not ignore natural soak.
 
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