Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 23: We Wonder Where Who Wanders When Watchers Wane

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Chapter 9.4
(Part 3)
-Meetings with spirits are never boring:V

-The probability of this leaking is unity.
The PRT will be more or less obliged to talk to the Feds in both the US and Canada, which means a minimum of several hundred people, from intelligence analysts to military to legislators to POTUS and the PM. And of course there's Saint, who was playing data broker in his Interlude.
Unless Cauldron is doing cleanup for some reason, this shit will hit the papers bigtime.

-Someone is going to get the bright idea to sphere nap Iris sooner or later while he's powered down.
Someone else is going to accuse Taylor of mummery, of using her projection to attempt to manipulate the PRT.
Might as well get them out of the way.

-That entire meeting was almost certainly recorded, which means that they would have caught both Crushing Grasp's temper tantrum, and Iris Abbreviated History of The Fall of Creation.And since there is an Old Realm translator, they can confirm what was said without resorting to having an Alchemical translation.
Note the parts about maddened Exalts: if other Celestials show up in-universe, the PRT is going to freak.

There is, of course, an inappropriate amount of shock and panic displayed by the veteran heroes and government agents at these bombshells. By which you mean: practically zero.
It's only really hilarious when you consider that she's explicitly considering Taylor a veteran hero.:V
A girl two years her junior who's only been an Alchemical for a little shorter than two months.

Swatting away Lord Grasp's tapping on your hand, you look to Taylor's hard expression. "W-we have to do something!"
The dark-graphite face nods, but as Taylor opens her mouth to respond, another hardened voice cuts her off.
Two Hard Women staring each other down.
Possibly one of the issues with RBC that I've been struggling to articulate: They're both excellent people, but I suspect they'd enable each other's more......utilitarian impulses. And as things stand, I'm not sure maximum utilitarianism is the way to go about this, in a story that has leaps of faith and trust as two of it's central themes.

"I'm just finding this out, too, Chief-Director. Iris… says... that the initial timeline that he was given expected us to have decades to establish ourselves here, so he didn't want to influence my decision-making."
"I see," the cold blue eyes shift, settling on you for a long moment before switching back
. "What caused this change?"
And here you get a reminder that Rebecca is a damn good Thinker.
She already put together the whole timeline thing with the advent of PR specialists.

And the implications that Iris/Auto were working on a timescale of decades, and then sent over PR specialists, is going to be reassuring, because it implies that violent takeover was not on their timetable.
At least, it wasn't before.

Again, Taylor has a quick, silent exchange off-camera before she speaks up again. "I-... we don't think it was Saki and Sakura, Chief-Director. It's more likely something unexpected going on in Autochthon's world-body than anything happening on our side - a major breakdown or failure of something critical."
Huh.
So something new went wrong between Prayer's Exaltation and that of the Twins.
Which suggests that sending Sakura to Estasia might actually be Autobot improvising with available resources, and not part of the original plan.
An unlimited range teleporter has strategic implications for the Alchemicals of Autochtonia, even barring her PR capabilities; just the logistics alone.....

Iris does say that Alchemicals have the best track record for actually solving problems when it comes to Exalted, but with their limited resources they'll be unlikely to give us the full timeline back."
Now that's just sad.

Everyone in the room has already tossed their chairs back to ready themselves for a fight, but Lord Grasp ignores them all to bellow ominously at your Assembly leader's image.
Heh.
So that's Miss Militia, Prayer and Legend as the only three possible combatants, and two are Blasters in a small room with a high-level Brute/Blaster.
They'd have gotten ripped apart, wouldn't they?
Well, Prayer would have survived it....

"Enduring Order Administrator! I will have the name of your disgraceful source, the traitor that would spit upon the sacrifices of all those uncountable millions, those brave, shining souls sacrificed in the fight to free Creation from the infernal grip of the Primordials! Then I shall see to it that this Yozi sympathizer's lying tongue is properly clipped!"
Careful what you wish for, spectacular scorpion.

It does mean that in his two days of absence from Saki's side, he didn't actually spend any time interrogating Prayer about the current state of affairs in his new area of operations, or determining who his new allies were.
That was remarkably careless of a Primordial War vet.

"Iris! Iris no-! No, stop! Wait! He doesn't know! He doesn't-" Taylor screams, hands scrambling to the side as her expression contorts into naked terror as she whips her head to the right to shout in panic. "Run, Riley! Go!"
Yeah, we need to spend time with Iris for non-professional reasons to get our relationship back on something like it's old footing.
I really liked when Taylor wasn't afraid of Iris, or of what Iris could do.
Vision maybe, Iris no.

Also note the implication that Taylor knows, in some detail, what happened to Creation.
You stop, your stomach dropping even further. Riley-!?
I assume she heard the name in passing sometime during when she and her sister were in captivity.
Or, more likely, this is an example of Saki's Lore 1(Parahumans 2) rating; she probably knows much of her public history by heart.

Inconvenient that the Riley reveal came during the whole "Apocalypse Is Coming" reveal.
Guess they'll hash that out later.
All conscious thought is expelled from your head as Taylor's screen blurs, then fills with pure, light-drinking black.
Wait, he doffed his pimp suit?
Iris is PISSED.

The conference room freezes, the molecules of the world around you held in stasis. Your active Industrial Survival Frame screams in the back of your mind at the force it is repelling.
Philadelphia to New York is ~100 miles, which is where Miss Milita, Legend, Prayer, Grasp and Saki are.
Philly to DC is ~140 miles, which is one possible location for RCB.
Philadelphia to Los Angeles is ~2400 miles, another possible location for RCB.
Philadelphia to Vancouver is ~3000 miles, which is where Dragon is based.

And Iris just wololo'd the lot of them casually.

From the PoV of the PRT, Iris has just displayed a targeted expansion of VoV's range by multiple orders of magnitude, with a repeat of the whole spacetime manipulation and bodyfreeze thing at literally a moment's notice.
If anyone had any reasonable doubts about who/what they were fucking with, it's probably gone.

I wonder what Chevy saw this time.
And given that Saint was probably listening in, I wonder if it hit him as well.
EXALTED HOST FAILED
NEVERBORN VICTORIOUS
YU-SHAN FELL WHILE INCARNAE PLAYED
Intentional callback to the legends about Nero fiddling as Rome burned?

This is the most scathing assessment of the Incarnae I've seen in print.
Seems UCS's friendship with Autobot didn't translate to Auto's 3CDs regarding him charitably.
I mean, you can see him mentioning extenuating circumstances for the Exalted, what with the whole Primordial death curse thing, but he just plain damned the Incarnae.

WITNESSED RETURN OF YOZI
OBSERVED NEVERBORN AGENTS INITIATE CASCADING EXISTENCE FAILURE

RESCUED BY ALCHEMICAL INTERVENTION
SEVERED AUTOCHTHON ELSEWHERE TIES TO CREATION
And it's spelt out.
This has major, major implications.

The fact that they inserted Alchemical operators into Creation, found Iris and managed to cut the links in time suggests they had help from Creation-side Auto loyalists, of whom the most prominent are the Jadeborn.
And that further suggests that Lifeboat Autobot took on more refugees.

Certainly Jadeborn, Auto's favored children, and one of the most cohesive and powerful military forces in the Age of Sorrows. Maybe Dragon Kings.
Possibly some spirits; see Luranume, God of Fivefold Luck, who was a collab between Luna and Auto as a contingency.
Or Asna Firstborn, who ran the Loom and would have been able to use it to locate and track stuff.
Probably some more humans(which means Dragonblood genetics), maybe even raksha; raw materials, if nothing else.

And that means they would have looted any resources they could reach that weren't nailed down, to keep Autobot going longer, or to aid the Eight Nations. Souls(human, Jadeborn, Dragon King), artifacts, geneseed, resources et cetera.
This is where they would have needed the Jadeborn.

Also to sever Autobot's links to Creation, because IIRC, as some of his most devoted worshippers, they would have been links.
So the Jadeborn would either have been moved or destroyed.
The silence in the room is stark and total, and you can see in your peripheral vision that even both Directors appear to be frozen as well. Somehow, though, everyone still look conscious despite having no ability to breathe.
And here we see the difference between Iris and Vision: one is less indiscriminately homicidal than the other.
Iris realizes that while stopping them from breathing might be impressive, actually letting them choke would be counterproductive.
Hence Shaping to simply allow them go without oxygen.

ENTERING COLLECTION MODE
IN EVENT OF EMERGENCY: PLACE UNIT IN MANTLE OF THE DREAD GEAR
And here we have an answer to the question that people posed to me several threads ago when I pushed for more suit armor/weapons on our new suit:
Why you would want another suit of armor when you have the Dread Mantle?
Because the power source of the suit is needed to perform large-scale geomancy.

With the apocalypse coming, any time Iris is spending powering the suit is time not charging for Nowhereverse conversion.
So we're going to have to weigh Mantle deployment against losing demesne setup time.
Which means that choice of powered armor loadout needs to be able to keep the occupant alive and combat active.

Pity this wasn't explicitly spelt out then, but it would have spoiled Plot.
:shrug:
Next suit of armor gets built-in weapons.
IRIS OF INNOVATION

POWERING DOWN

Iris mike drop.
I wonder if he literally dropped out of the air because he stopped powering himself.
And if Taylor can absorb him into TIE while he's in low-power, because you can bet some moron will think to attempt a sphere-napping.

You stagger, gasp, and fall to the ground, gripping your head to try to hold back the massive headache forming behind your eyes. Around the room, the sounds of gasping, coughing, and arguing are already starting up.
Heh.
Loling at Uriel here; I suspect dude will be very respectful to Iris.
Or just avoid him.

I can't blame the guy for turning to drink to cope; having an Endbringer+ in the same city as yourself, with the only leash being a fifteen year old Ward would freak most people out.
And under it all, you can hear Lord Grasp's feet slide out from under him as he slowly, quietly begins to weep.
:(:cry:
What a way to learn that your entire existence, and the deaths of your friends, were for naught.
Poor dude. At least comforting him will give Saki her first opportunity to intentionally use her powers.
 
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What a way to learn that your entire existence, and the deaths of your friends, were for naught.
Poor dude. At least comforting him will give Saki her first opportunity to intentionally use her powers.

Yeah, on reread, this is absolutely horrifying for him: his friends, his purpose, history, everything that defined him is gone, and not because of superior enemy, but because of foolishness of those he believed in without doubt.
Poor Lord Grasp.
 
Yeah. I liked it when Iris and Taylor were closer too. The unfortunately reality is however, that Taylor was wrong. Or mostly wrong. Iris might not hurt her, but Iris obviously can't prevent Vision from overriding control if something angers him enough.
Vision isn't Iris though.
And Iris has to relinquish control to Vision; he/she just can't take it.
You don't really care about IAT, but I would have thought you would have been more concerned about Alexandria. You think with her fear of Visions return, Taylors going to risk breaking the SoPA connection now by entering the twins Elsewhere pocket to do surgery on Alexandria, while Iris is doing this Very Important Thing? Forget fixing on Alexandria for the next month. Maybe she could be convinced to try exalted healing drug, but dunno if that can heal a loss of spine (seems like it might be crippling?). It certainly can't heal a lost arm.
Fairly constant rule of Exalted is that other people can't fuck with your charms.
Note that Prayer has been in Saki's Dimension, and even with the IFF set to hostile, it didn't block her Essence supply; her shard-charm kept working fine.
It's not a concern.

Remember that Autobot would have considered this while redesigning the Shard of Transcendent Imprisonment; he's not an idiot.
 
This is the most scathing assessment of the Incarnae I've seen in print.
Seems UCS's friendship with Autobot didn't translate to Auto's 3CDs regarding him charitably.
I mean, you can see him mentioning extenuating circumstances for the Exalted, what with the whole Primordial death curse thing, but he just plain damned the Incarnae.
Well, the UCS backed that whole 'You need to cripple the Jadeborn with the Geass' thing. At that point, calling him a friend is rather questionable.
 
I've seen worse. I read a short piece somewhere that basically blamed Sol and Jupiter for almost everything wrong in the Exalted universe. I my former ST certainly agreed, and I kind of do too.
Linky?
Well, not in that way.
Lol.
Alchemicals are an exception to that rule though, given that their charms are tangible things.
Nah.
You can amputate a charm, sure, just as you can cut off a Solar's arms to prevent him wielding a daiklave; you just can't fuck with the charm's functioning, except in a very few circumstances.
Well, the UCS backed that whole 'You need to cripple the Jadeborn with the Geass' thing. At that point, calling him a friend is rather questionable.
Didn't back it.
Just didn't prevent it, because he'd given jurisdiction over the Earth to the Solar Deliberative.
Negligence not malice.
 
-That entire meeting was almost certainly recorded, which means that they would have caught both Crushing Grasp's temper tantrum, and Iris Abbreviated History of The Fall of Creation.And since there is an Old Realm translator, they can confirm what was said without resorting to having an Alchemical translation.
Note the parts about maddened Exalts: if other Celestials show up in-universe, the PRT is going to freak.

They would also likely ask if Taylor&co can be sure they are safe, though we can explain that by telling that alchemicals were built later. Still, would not surprise me if theres some suspicion (especially from those like Lisa, if they ever find out).

Which suggests that sending Sakura to Estasia might actually be Autobot improvising with available resources, and not part of the original plan.
An unlimited range teleporter has strategic implications for the Alchemicals of Autochtonia, even barring her PR capabilities; just the logistics alone.....

This was basically confirmed by the Gromweld Word of God stating that Auto is not building alchemicals in Autochtonia. Which was probably why Auto had to kidnap a body for her (never planned for dual-twin exaltations). Frankly, I somewhat suspect that Auto might have preferred to keep his Nowhere-plan hidden from his Divine Ministers and the people living with him. We know the Divine Ministers have made a mess of things in many ways, and that we will end up with conflict with one of them. Ofcourse, a new separate connection other than Cradle through Saki&Sakuras shard might have been worth scrapping all that (though obviously we would have to establish contact first).

Yeah, we need to spend time with Iris for non-professional reasons to get our relationship back on something like it's old footing.
I really liked when Taylor wasn't afraid of Iris, or of what Iris could do.
Vision maybe, Iris no.

Sadly, they come in the same package.

Inconvenient that the Riley reveal came during the whole "Apocalypse Is Coming" reveal.
Guess they'll hash that out later.

I really REALLY hope you are right in your blase attitude and how you just dismiss it as "inconvenient", when it comes to Bonesaw, and how Taylor can just "hash it out" like its not a big deal at all. I am far more worried and afraid that we will pay harshly for this. Especially with the recent comments from CM: "there is a reason I do not call her Riley, and it's not because I dislike her".

Lets hope I am afraid for nothing eh?

Philadelphia to New York is ~100 miles, which is where Miss Milita, Legend, Prayer, Grasp and Saki are.
Philly to DC is ~140 miles, which is one possible location for RCB.
Philadelphia to Los Angeles is ~2400 miles, another possible location for RCB.
Philadelphia to Vancouver is ~3000 miles, which is where Dragon is based.

And Iris just wololo'd the lot of them casually.

Had not thought of that. Though it could be that he is not doing actual timestop but something else. I find it unlikely he could do effects of this magnitude at this point, when Vision had to basically eat and consume everything Taylor had to do what he did. Would not surprise me if this is more somekind of directed mental communication than some huge AoE effect.

And given that Saint was probably listening in, I wonder if it hit him as well.

More importantly, what will Saint do now that he knows that he has 1001 hours to stop Iris from doing whatever craziness? Admittedly, he is not exactly at the head of the worry list, but he should still be on the list.

This is the most scathing assessment of the Incarnae I've seen in print.
Seems UCS's friendship with Autobot didn't translate to Auto's 3CDs regarding him charitably.
I mean, you can see him mentioning extenuating circumstances for the Exalted, what with the whole Primordial death curse thing, but he just plain damned the Incarnae.

Eh, maybe. He did say that the Incarna were addicted to the Games of Divinity, and apparently Auto was the one who made them, so in that sense it might show understanding why the Incarna did nothing. Beyond that though, what Iris said was blunt truth. The Incarna did do just that.

And it's spelt out.
This has major, major implications.

We knew this a long time ago:
Autochthon didn't visit Creation, as he's yet to fully wake from his original slumber, which has turned into more of a coma than a nap. Everything he's done in this quest is him in his fugue-state of being somewhat conscious but unable to fully wake - waking him up would solve a lot of our problems.

A crew of Alchemicals and Autochthonians snuck into Creation through means I won't spoil, and made a mad dash-and-grab for whatever they could get their hands on before people wizened up to their presence. They grabbed a few things that were helpful, but ultimately their initial hope of finding a way to save Autochthon and/or clear up his rapidly-increasing illness went unfulfilled.

Don't expect major things from Creation to show up. Iris was retrieved in what was basically a quick rading party and not much more. There are some things sure, so perhaps a few Jadeborn and so on, and some other "helpful" things. But I would not expect there to be things of MAJOR significance saved from Creation. It was basically an alchemical group afterall, who would not really have known anyone/anything and were apparently doing their best to avoid being noticed by anyone. And since Auto was in near-coma, he was not in any position to tell them "Hey, go to these people for help and get THAT thing there, its super important!".

Maybe if we area really REALLY lucky, the Divine Ministers gave some clues to the alchemical group on what was actually important to bring back, but I would not hold my breath.

Also to sever Autobot's links to Creation, because IIRC, as some of his most devoted worshippers, they would have been links.

Gromweld mentioned earlier that Elsewhere pockets can have connections to Creation, which is how Auto could go back for example. What Iris did was sever that link permanently.

This is basically similar to what the Solar-Circle spell "Pressed Beyond The Veil Of Time" does. It creates an Elsewhere pocket and transports a region from Creation into Elsewhere. If Adamant countermagic is used on that spell? Well:

Adamant Countermagic destroys the spell of displacement suddenly and disastrously. The Storyteller rolls one die: Failure means the hidden land is severed from Creation and drifts free in Elsewhere. Reaching or leaving it is now an epic adventure all by itself.

Thats what Iris did. Separated all connection between Elsewhere and Autochtonia in a similar way. Thats why Auto was not destroyed. Oblivion used these connections between Creation and other pocket dimensions to propagate. So a Sanctum might not have been in Creation, but it had a link anchoring it to Creation (allowing exit and entry), and Oblivion could reach into the sanctum through that link to destroy what was within. Thats why EVERYTHING was destroyed.

In that sense, it actually IS possible that something remains. There might be pockets of existence that had PBTVOT used, and then had the link to Creation broken. Those places would have no connection to Creation anymore than Autochtonia, and so Oblivion could not have reached them. However like it says, finding and connecting to one would be a massive undertaking.

@Gromweld, this was my best understanding of things based on your WoG. If I screwed something utterly, would you be willing to correct it?

And here we have an answer to the question that people posed to me several threads ago when I pushed for more suit armor/weapons on our new suit:
Why you would want another suit of armor when you have the Dread Mantle?
Because the power source of the suit is needed to perform large-scale geomancy.

And because the damn thing can't fly. But yeah, was this ever in question? We have known that Iris has other jobs for some time. The dread mantle is basically the armor to use when Endbringers (or Siberian equivalents) come to visit. Its not really realistic choice for everyday usage. The Entity Bane power is the most significant thing about it. Well, the perfect defense is handy too, but again likely to only be needed for Siberian/Endbringer equivalents.

With the apocalypse coming, any time Iris is spending powering the suit is time not charging for Nowhereverse conversion.
So we're going to have to weigh Mantle deployment against losing demesne setup time.
Which means that choice of powered armor loadout needs to be able to keep the occupant alive and combat active.

On the other hand, our normal armor can't really do much to endbringers. Especially if they stop jobbing, which they very well might, since they now know Iris is planning a mass conversion. Simurgh in particular would be utterly screwed if the entire planet was converted to Design-aspected essence. Now thats not going to happen since Iris is goint to use Causality-aspected essence, but no one has any idea of that. Yeah Taylor will likely explain, but from Simurghs POV, she would almost certainly expect Taylor to lie and say the same thing if Iris was actually going for the kind of Essence that would basically wreck her and all shards.

Without the Perfect Defense and Entity Bane effect of the Mantle, a fight with the next endbringer might well go very very badly, as the endbringer decides that the time for playing games has ended.


Vision isn't Iris though.
And Iris has to relinquish control to Vision; he/she just can't take it.

Really?

IRIS OF INNOVATION PERSONALITY CORE OVERRIDDEN

And what happens when VoV leaves?

VISION OF VENGEANCE PERSONALITY CORE DISENGAGED

To me, that implies that if Iris is angry enough, VoV can basically do an override and take control forcibly. Iris would almost certainly have known that Vision would screw everything up, and yet what happened, happened anyway. So either Iris can't stop it (unable to stop a clear threat to Taylor and everyone), or he was angry enough that he did not care about consequences of releasing Viator (threat to Taylor due to just not caring).

@Gromweld, is there any chance we could get a Word of God on this?

Fairly constant rule of Exalted is that other people can't fuck with your charms.
Note that Prayer has been in Saki's Dimension, and even with the IFF set to hostile, it didn't block her Essence supply; her shard-charm kept working fine.
It's not a concern.

Uh, this was asked from Gromweld today.

RoninSword said:
I wonder, if Taylor goes inside Saki's Safe Place but Iris doesn't, does Iris deactivate?

Yes.

If we enter the Twin dimension, Iris loses all power. Now obviously if Iris is just charging, and does not have to stick around the spot where the demesne will form, we can just take him with us ofcourse.

Remember that Autobot would have considered this while redesigning the Shard of Transcendent Imprisonment; he's not an idiot.

No, but he is dying and INCREDIBLY weak. If he could account for every contingency, we would not be in this situation.

EDIT:
You can amputate a charm, sure, just as you can cut off a Solar's arms to prevent him wielding a daiklave; you just can't fuck with the charm's functioning, except in a very few circumstances.

And jumping from a non-essence universe to a entity-based shard-charm Elsewhere pocket and leaving your familiar that depends on being in range of your own entity-based shard-charm for power (and has infact suffered from power-loss when separated repeatedly) happens to be one of those rare circumstances.

If we could power Iris from Elsewhere, we could also control things on Earth!Bet from Elsewhere. We can't.

Didn't back it.
Just didn't prevent it, because he'd given jurisdiction over the Earth to the Solar Deliberative.
Negligence not malice.

Then, a little over a century after the end of the Primordial War, tensions rose between the Solars and the People of Adamant. The Mountain Folk prayed to Autochthon to intervene on their behalf, and the Twilights asked Autochthon to make his people see reason. The Great Maker remained silent. Soon enough, the first Solar Deliberative begged the Unconquered Sun to intervene, and the Lord of Heaven approached the Great Maker with an ultimatum: Make sure the Mountain Folk offered no threat to their former allies, or the Solars would make war upon them

Nope. UCQ gave Auto an order, obey or my Solars will wipe you out. Whatever motivated him does not change the fact that he did it. He could have said to his Solars "Hey, Auto MADE you! Cut him some slack!". Instead, he sided with Solars against Auto and Jadeborn.
 
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Fair enough :V
I wanted to say something about how he can be plenty responsible, but then I remembered that he was breaking out Birdcage-bound (!) villains for fun and profit, before changing things just because he found a fancy girl.
Yeah.
Ideological opposition to the concept of life without parole in an inescapable prison with no guards actually (though the cash helped)
 
This is the most scathing assessment of the Incarnae I've seen in print.
Seems UCS's friendship with Autobot didn't translate to Auto's 3CDs regarding him charitably.
I mean, you can see him mentioning extenuating circumstances for the Exalted, what with the whole Primordial death curse thing, but he just plain damned the Incarnae.
The difference with Iris and Autochton was that Autochton wasn't there to see the entire First Age, the Shogunate and the Age of Sorrows. To see all Creation burn while the Incarnae did nothing, until it was too late.

Iris had seen some shit man.
And if Taylor can absorb him into TIE while he's in low-power, because you can bet some moron will think to attempt a sphere-napping.
Probably she could. Necessary even. Iris's mote regeneration is dramatically increased inside Taylor, so if he's not actively doing anything he SHOULD be there to charge up.

Main reason we didn't get to pick a location in HERE was because that was Iris flash burning off the Viator overcharge, so he couldn't go further than a couple hours worth, tops.
 
Probably she could. Necessary even. Iris's mote regeneration is dramatically increased inside Taylor, so if he's not actively doing anything he SHOULD be there to charge up.

Main reason we didn't get to pick a location in HERE was because that was Iris flash burning off the Viator overcharge, so he couldn't go further than a couple hours worth, tops.

Yeah, if it turns out that Iris does not need to be on location for demesne formation, absorbing him with Tie to connect him closer to Auto should be something to do pronto (for many reasons). Taylor would presumably know thanks to the Occult 5 we got (they must have talked about this, and Iris must have finished training Taylor to get Occult to 5. Who else could have done it?).
 
@Gromweld, just noticed these:


Still a thing? Should I add them (or some of them) to the wiki? Or have you changed your mind?


Anybody have any guesses on which one? My bet would be Ku, but that's mostly based on him basically having a mental breakdown to go with Auto's physical breakdown.

Possibly. Fear of going Nowhere might well cause him to move against us. On the other hand, he is already afraid of dying in Elsewhere, so its possible the fear he would feel for Nowhere would not compel him to act, since he might be more afraid of dying in Elsewhere.
 
I am a bit confused, I thought the twin dimension had essence, can't Iris respire super fast in there?

On another note, is there any reason to assume that POS can't manipulate the Corrona Pollentia and so how the power expresses?
..I mean is it even certain that the shard itself is safe from it?
 
Won't the PRT and the US Gov object to a little piece of their reality being converted to... another kind of reality?
 
I am a bit confused, I thought the twin dimension had essence, can't Iris respire super fast in there?
Problem there is, we need to be in there as well or else he is cut off from us.

Won't the PRT and the US Gov object to a little piece of their reality being converted to... another kind of reality?
They're welcome to argue the point with Iris, if they'd like. I don't think it would go in their favor.
 
Won't the PRT and the US Gov object to a little piece of their reality being converted to... another kind of reality?
Considering the alternative is Oblivion sometime in the next few years/centuries, I don't think they have much of a choice.
Especially since it remains entirely viable for Taylor and her Assembly to up and move to Africa, POS spike Moord Nag and continue working there.
And given those projections of Endbringer activity destroying civilization in a couple decades anyway unless something is done, probably worth the gamble.

Besides, there's Essence leaking into Earth Bet now, and they can't detect it, or notice if it does anything.
For other concerns, we have Saki and her actual bigtime Social charms.
The ones she left in her vat.

I am a bit confused, I thought the twin dimension had essence, can't Iris respire super fast in there?
Probably.
Haven't tested it yet, and Saki hasn't finished calibrating her charms.

On another note, is there any reason to assume that POS can't manipulate the Corrona Pollentia and so how the power expresses?
..I mean is it even certain that the shard itself is safe from it?
-The corona pollentia manipulates conscious control over the power, not how it expresses.

-Probably.
I think you'll need a new submod to do so.
We'll find out soon enough.
 
Uh... as someone who isn't familiar with exalted mechanics, can someone fill me in on what ESSENCE RESPIRATION and DEMESNE CREATION is, and what it means?

Essence is the building block of the Exalted universe; its smallest unit is called a 'mote'. It is a tiny kernel of infinite possibility that can be leveraged to do or become something. Spiritually awakened beings, such as Exalts, enlightened mortals and spirits, can carry around some in a 'pool' or 'reservoir'. When it is expended, you have the opportunity to respire it, sort of like water seeping back into a waterskein via osmosis, or a runner catching their breath.

A demesne is where ley lines cross together and some variety of WEIRD SHIT is going on, most commonly aspected to the thematics of one of the five elements of Creation (Earth, Air, Fire, Water and Wood) though celestial options also exist (Solar, Lunar, Sidereal) and lately there's been some newer, more cancerous options showing up (Abyssal, Infernal). There's also Fair Folk options that are similar but not the same, but that's not really something I'm overly familiar with myself. In Autochthonia, you've got different elements (Steam, Metal, Lightning, Oil, Smoke, etc) with different thematics, but generally the result is the same; an area where reality more closely aligns with the thematics of whatever the dominant element is. An Air demesne might be a canyon where you can hear every whisper for miles, or a place where there is a constant, lightning-charged blizzard going on. A Wood demesne might look like a woodland grove that keeps cycling through the various seasons several times a week, or a wide bed of kelp in the ocean that produces motile plants whose juices can heal the wounded and always sounds like woodwinds are playing. A demesne is useful (rare plants grow there, or a quirk of the geography means that its day/night cycle is reversed from the rest of the world, not necessarily safe; leaving aside the possibility of hostile inhabitants not wanting to share in its power (most Demesne in Creation are host to local spirits of one ilk or another, and not all share with others) long term exposure can mutate things to fit the thematics of the demesne; a flaming sword left in a wood aspected area for a few decades may when recovered host potent poisons instead of be a good firestarter, or humans can turn into Wyld Mutants (one example might be the crew of the Dutchman in the Pirates of the Carribean movies)

A demesne can be 'capped' and turned into a Manse, channeling the ambient essence into certain effects and forming a Hearthstone, which is helpful for some of the stronger artifacts (think an industrial scale AA battery the size of a chicken's egg that makes you better at math, or lets you intuitively know where every open source of flame larger than a candle is within a two mile area) and also makes it safe to be near (plenty of cities are built around some of the stronger manses).

Normally, demesne creation is done by shifting the leylines around a bit, altering the geomancy (feng shui) of an area by doing something like diverting a river, planting a forest or lining a roadside with a holocaust so that the relevant ley lines shift from one area to another. What Iris is doing is basically whistling them up from scratch, which is no mean feat. For all we joke about him and his oranges, he's a frighteningly powerful being with some serious chops.
 
@Gromweld, next crazy question. :p

You say in SoPA writeup for Spirit Attunement Generators that: "The exception to this sub-module are dormant spirits - usually least gods and lesser gods within objects - which the user must consciously identify, then rouse in order to bring them under the charm's sway."

You also state (2327891) that "Alchemical charms are physical artifacts, and thus have lesser gods within them. It's how they're 'learning' about Nowhereverse rules, even if they aren't fully awoken.".

As an Alchemical Exalt, we should obviously follow the wise example of our 5 dot mentor and be willing to do SCIENCE, so I was just wondering. What happens if Taylor uses SoPA to rouse to awareness the lesser god in her TIE charm artifact, takes control of it with SoPA, and forcibly makes it eat another Dragon Suit whether the TIE charm likes it or not?


I am a bit confused, I thought the twin dimension had essence, can't Iris respire super fast in there?

Truthfully, its a bit unclear. Iris apparently has an abnormally small max mote pool, which is why stuff such as injecting him with more essence via Sakis hypodermic won't really help. Ofcourse I don't really understand how he is collecting Essence then?

On another note, is there any reason to assume that POS can't manipulate the Corrona Pollentia and so how the power expresses?
..I mean is it even certain that the shard itself is safe from it?

Yes and no. Gromweld has basically stated that a custom POS submodule that can hack the shards is possible. However just as the modern alchemical charms that allow internet/computer shenanigans don't exist (because none in Autochtonia) yet, neither does that. No shards or Corona Pollentias in Autocthonia, so no submodule to affect them.

We (well, Iris) would have to basically study shards, and then custom create an entirely new submodule for POS. This is possible, and one of the reasons why we would probably want atleast one Cauldron vial (and possibly other stuff such as pieces of Edens flesh, her avatar, whatever else we can get, if we can somehow arrange it) for Iris to do SCIENCE on.


Won't the PRT and the US Gov object to a little piece of their reality being converted to... another kind of reality?

Quite probably. A lot of others will probably object too. Pity that Iris had to announce it to everyone (we could have just had Iris do it covertly, since the process cannot be stopped once the first demesne forms). Hopefully, Saki can help us convince people/Cauldron/etc that Causality-essence will just make things better (arguably true even). Assuming ofcourse that Saki won't basically decide that we are a traitor for happily working with Bonesaw and tell us to go to hell in the next few updates.

Regardless, its virtually certain that even if we can convince PRT/Cauldron/Etc, the endbringers won't like it, and will try to stop us.

Shards probably won't like it either, so what has been happening with Lisa might start happening more to some extent (subtle sabotage as thinkers start getting more negative results).


Problem there is, we need to be in there as well or else he is cut off from us.

Well, the dimension is now in Elsewhere and has ambient essence, so he probably won't deactivate, since he would have an alternative energy, rather than relying solely on SoPA for fuel. I could actually potentially see Iris being able to exert his power to far greater extent inside Sakis dimension. Ofcourse, the shard charm might not like that, and it was already basically established that the amount of essence inside the dimension is not infinite.

They're welcome to argue the point with Iris, if they'd like. I don't think it would go in their favor.

Iris is actually quite vulnerable, and they know it. Just kill Taylor (or separate them), and he becomes an inert ball, that can't do anything. That was the whole reason he did not just kill S9 immediately and return on his own.


It honestly won't be that big a deal for them. Or at least that's what we'll tell them.

Yeah. The question is, will they believe us? PRT gets pissed if a tinkers don't send their tech through proper review. Our little alien ball is about to rewrite the laws of physics. Something tells me there will be conflict now that everyone knows what Iris is upto.

Yeah, Saki and Taylors reputation and willingness to work with PRT and Cauldrons support (if we can convince them) will all make it easier, but we will still encounter problems.
 
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Considering the alternative is Oblivion sometime in the next few years/centuries, I don't think they have much of a choice.
Especially since it remains entirely viable for Taylor and her Assembly to up and move to Africa, POS spike Moord Nag and continue working there.
And given those projections of Endbringer activity destroying civilization in a couple decades anyway unless something is done, probably worth the gamble.

Besides, there's Essence leaking into Earth Bet now, and they can't detect it, or notice if it does anything.
For other concerns, we have Saki and her actual bigtime Social charms.
The ones she left in her vat.

Probably.
Haven't tested it yet, and Saki hasn't finished calibrating her charms.

-The corona pollentia manipulates conscious control over the power, not how it expresses.

-Probably.
I think you'll need a new submod to do so.
We'll find out soon enough.
Hmmmmmm
Tieshaunn said:
The following is from an irc conversation with wildbow

On Moord Nag's territory:
All of Namibia, half of Angola, Botswana, and a slice of South Africa


On Moord Nag's power:
Breaker/spectral minion of ambiguous solidity (as it desires) and form. Kill people = minion gains a bit of mass.
Started off like a palm-sized critter. Gained maybe a tablespoon of mass per kill.

She's had a few setbacks along the way. Trying to game it/fool the shard kinda backfired once or twice. Power eraser ate a good chunk once. Found someone who made clones, ate clones. Looked like it worked for a bit, then power rebelled, and she lost a huge chunk of her minion at a critical moment.

She basically has auto-defense. Her spirit will identify incoming attacks & hostility and move to block.

If I were to stat her out in Weaverdice, I'd give her a series of 'stances'. Ride, Safe, Offense. With her spirit behavior changing accordingly.

She doesn't manually control the spirit, but Breadth and Depth are set enough & her conflict yields are high enough that it's effectively a subconscious extension of her anyway, with trust on both sides.

She doesn't turn it off or put it away. She's not in a positions where she ever would or has to. She can send it away. But again, moot point.

It can move through walls but only by destroying them in the process. There's something congealed in there, so it wouldn't pass through a keyhole.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Tieshaunn said:
On Moord Nag before "breadth and depth" set in:
Moord Nag was a traumatized pokemon trainer with one pokemon in a war-torn country, and her pokemon didn't always cooperate.

How much influence did Teacher gain on her, for giving her an Omniglot power:
Not much. More like it was enough that he could nudge her away if she started to get hostile toward him.
............POTENTIAL WOOBIE LITTLE/BIG SISTER IDENTIFIED! ACTIVATING WEAVER WOOBIE PROTOCOLS!

IN-I-TI-A-TING MAX-I-MUM SNU-GGL-ING

/DALEK!TAYLOR

Moord Nag for Ori? :p
 
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Idly, the reason for the whole Iris and Essence thing is simply because Iris gets his Essence from Taylor through SoPA. So if Iris gets cut off from SoPA, he has issues.

At least, that's been my understanding. Unless @Gromweld changed that when I wasn't looking.
 
They would also likely ask if Taylor&co can be sure they are safe, though we can explain that by telling that alchemicals were built later. Still, would not surprise me if theres some suspicion (especially from those like Lisa, if they ever find out).
Ask? No; that's like asking if Eidolon has a conflict drive.
Even if you suspect it, you keep your inquiries discreet unless you have absolute proof and/or a counter.

Sadly, they come in the same package.
Still not the same person though.
And Taylor can tell the difference.
Lets hope I am afraid for nothing eh?
I think you are.
Her Intimacies towards Taylor and natural inclinations towards Compassion way outweigh her grudge, and that was even before she learned that the end of the world was a possibility. Friction? I expect some; I don't expect serious drama though.

Had not thought of that. Though it could be that he is not doing actual timestop but something else. I find it unlikely he could do effects of this magnitude at this point, when Vision had to basically eat and consume everything Taylor had to do what he did. Would not surprise me if this is more somekind of directed mental communication than some huge AoE effect.
Vision did that shit with Taylor at E3.
Iris has E4 Taylor feeding him a much broader/deeper stream of Essence, which means he can perform much stronger/longer ranged effects.
It does seem to have been targeted, not just a broad AoE over most of North America.

More importantly, what will Saint do now that he knows that he has 1001 hours to stop Iris from doing whatever craziness? Admittedly, he is not exactly at the head of the worry list, but he should still be on the list.
Way, WAY down.
Saint himself is a nonentity.
The worst he can do is sell information to others, and most of the information here was already mentioned in broad strokes by Taylor during her presentation, barring the Engine of Extinction thing.
And she told this to Armsmaster and Dragon as well, when they were discussing the Twins as Exalt candidates.

Eh, maybe. He did say that the Incarna were addicted to the Games of Divinity, and apparently Auto was the one who made them, so in that sense it might show understanding why the Incarna did nothing. Beyond that though, what Iris said was blunt truth. The Incarna did do just that.
Auto didn't make it for them though.
And addiction for >five thousand plus years through multiple apocalypses(first the Usurpation, then the Balorian Crusade) pretty much bleeds away much sympathy.

Don't expect major things from Creation to show up.
Not in this story, I think.
But there is going to be a lot of shit; Autobot's jouten is riddled with depots where he hoarded stuff from his siblings, from Creation's prehistory.
And given how big Creation is(the Blessed Island is supposed to be the size of North America IIRC) there's a lot of space to loot shit.

Gromweld mentioned earlier that Elsewhere pockets can have connections to Creation, which is how Auto could go back for example. What Iris did was sever that link permanently.
Links take various forms though. Some are physical, some are not.
And we don't know what Autobot's link was/where; worshippers might well have counted.

In that sense, it actually IS possible that something remains. There might be pockets of existence that had PBTVOT used, and then had the link to Creation broken. Those places would have no connection to Creation anymore than Autochtonia, and so Oblivion could not have reached them. However like it says, finding and connecting to one would be a massive undertaking.
Like I said, my current belief(no proof) is that Gaia and a bunch of others got away clean.
Autobot's plan is hardly beyond them, and unlike him, they were healthy.
It's Yozi like TED whose nature was intextricably linked to Creation, as well as denizens of the Wyld not powerful/imaginative enough to pop into Elsewhere and cut ties, that would have gotten nommed.

And because the damn thing can't fly. But yeah, was this ever in question?
I believe so, if I remember the arguments about armor design then correctly.

On the other hand, our normal armor can't really do much to endbringers.
Not entirely accurate.
Yes, Agg makes killing EBs much easier. No, you don't need Agg to kill one.
Sufficiently massive damage will do the trick(Hey Prayer), as will tinkertech/shard/dimensional effects like the one Flechette does.
Or we could simply do the same thing that Ziz did in canon that allowed her sword to ignore Leviathan's soak and strike his core.

Load missile launcher with specialty rounds.
We even have the basic technology for it; Voidboy's teleport things were able to access Scion-locked worlds.

Override does not mean what you seem to think.
Remember, VoV was entirely unaware of any of Iris' memories; didn't even know why she was summoned.
Prayer had to point her at Jack Slash, and it was his dumbass self that triggered her into vivisecting him and Broadcast-kun on the concrete floor.

My conclusion was that either personality can put itself to sleep and trigger one of the others.
No, but he is dying and INCREDIBLY weak. If he could account for every contingency, we would not be in this situation.
There's not accounting for every contingency, and there's not accounting for your agents.

If we could power Iris from Elsewhere, we could also control things on Earth!Bet from Elsewhere. We can't.
SoPA is a Shaping-keyword charm; it makes sense that SoTI would block it's effects, at least at the moment.

On the other hand, Familiar links are arcane.
Just like an Alchemical's links to it's panoply charm.
Last I checked, nothing external interrupted a familiar link while both sides of the bond were alive and willing.

Nope. UCQ gave Auto an order, obey or my Solars will wipe you out. Whatever motivated him does not change the fact that he did it. He could have said to his Solars "Hey, Auto MADE you! Cut him some slack!". Instead, he sided with Solars against Auto and Jadeborn.
I think we're reading that passage differently.

The impression I got was that UCS was playing interlocutor/negotiator/go-between, delivering an ultimatum he was not responsible for.
This was a time when the Deliberative was at it's strongest, with all 700 Celestials backed by tens or hundreds of thousands of Dragonbloods, and their then-conflict was with the Jadeborn, not Autobot.

Remember, the conflict was between the Jadeborn and the Deliberative, not Auto.
They approached Auto, and later the UCS, as an alternative to going to war with the Jadeborn.
Quite probably. A lot of others will probably object too. Pity that Iris had to announce it to everyone (we could have just had Iris do it covertly, since the process cannot be stopped once the first demesne forms).
That ship sailed a long time ago.
Taylor included that information into her presentation to the PRT before Prayer's Exaltation.
She outright stated it when talking to the Wards, including Penny, while she was in confinement on the Island.

The only thing Iris has done is demonstrate that it's not the delusions of a fifteen year old with superpowers, as some might think, but the plans of a massively powerful extraterrestrial intelligence and it's agents.
And provide some background details.
 
I was actually worried that this might be put up to a vote, because we'd keep putting it off, until it's too late.

Yeah, I noticed that about this quest too.

And here we have an answer to the question that people posed to me several threads ago when I pushed for more suit armor/weapons on our new suit:
Why you would want another suit of armor when you have the Dread Mantle?
Because the power source of the suit is needed to perform large-scale geomancy.
Well, with two Combat Monsters in the Assembly, we'd have less to worry about while Iris is off doing stuff.

More combat capability for the other suit would be great, but it'll never be any anti Endbringer measure.
I really REALLY hope you are right in your blase attitude and how you just dismiss it as "inconvenient", when it comes to Bonesaw, and how Taylor can just "hash it out" like its not a big deal at all. I am far more worried and afraid that we will pay harshly for this. Especially with the recent comments from CM: "there is a reason I do not call her Riley, and it's not because I dislike her".

I don't think it'll be as bad as you're worrying, but I don't think it'll be as smooth a transition as @uju32 insists. I can easily see Saki freaking out and going catatonic for an inconvenient amount of time, but not so much that she like actively works against Taylor or anything like that.
 
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