Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 23: We Wonder Where Who Wanders When Watchers Wane

Pre-Vote Running Tally: Who Are Your Top 3 Choices For Orichalcum?


  • Total voters
    625
Endbringers do not wear armor.
We see them; they're naked.
The conceptual magic of Charms would not consider them as wearing armor.
They do, however, have enormous piles of -0 health levels in the form of their outer layers. And as far as I know, we don't have any Charms that bypass HLs.

That's not to say that we can't hurt Endbringers: remember, Taylor managed to ping Behemoth's core after it was exposed in the Brockton Bay fight. The hard part is getting that core exposed in the first place. Otherwise, we won't be able to do anything beyond cosmetic damage.

(Some form of guaranteed Crippling effect might also work, but we don't have any.)
 
Endbringers do not wear armor.
We see them; they're naked.
The conceptual magic of Charms would not consider them as wearing armor.
Warstriders have aggravated soak(there are even autonomous ones).

No it wouldn't.
It took multiple shots to kill Behemoth. It took multiple shots to kill Leviathan.
That is not the behavior of shit that's doing direct health damage.

In Exalted terms, it's probably some variety of [Piercing], but it does not ignore natural soak.
Scion holds back during every fight he is in.

I was referring to how it was described to function, it basically disintegrated stuff.
 
while I understand where you're coming from with that pick, it's just that Snake doesn't quite fit as well as the Flashy Stealth of Crystal Chameleon.
though If Aisha comes out of the Cradle a Martial Arts Master of multiple styles, a couple of Stealth Alchemical Charms, and Extra-Essence Tanks things could be interesting.
 
Agg quotes. As always, some may be obsolete (first two were from SB for example). If I can't get the WoG list pruned today, I will just upload the whole damn thing on googledocs since work kinda slows progress to crawl during weekdays). Actually, might be worth doing anyway.

Ordered from oldest to newest, so expect later quotes to override the ones before.

In the event that other Essence users appear on Earth-Bet, they (like you) will do Ping Damage no matter what Earth-Bet armor is involved (since it's a matter of Essence Rating, not armor/weapons as I explained more recently). Behold the power of Narrative Agency!

There's nothing in Earth-Bet that does Aggravated Damage, since Agg is specifically spiritual/essence-based. In the case where Aggravated damage does get thrown around, Earth-Bet Armor will generally absorb it with the same ability as it does everything else, unless otherwise specified.

Flechette cannot be parried and ignores soak. All of it. In addition, her attacks Cripple should they do certain amounts of damage.

She does not do damage on a spiritual level, which is a requirement of Aggravated Damage.

As with Worm Canon, you don't kill Endbringers with bashing/lethal damage. Their cores make them capable of withstanding the damage of an entire solar system being thrown at them (not hyperbole, that's what the math says). You kill them with Bad Touch effects like Sting, Golden Beam of Bullshit, and Unsoakable attacks... or with Aggravated or Overwhelming damage.

Point of Order: nothing in the Nowhereverse has defenses specifically/only against Aggravated Damage, because Aggravated Damage is Magic, and nothing in the Nowhereverse is equipped to deal with Magic. Armor and Stamina soak still work as normal, but Aggravated Damage is caused by rending the very fabric of reality; nothing in the Nowhereverse has a way to heal or deal with the ramifications of that, because "mending reality" is out-of-context for the Nowhereverse.

The first time we throw Agg damage against an Endbringer or a Scion-monitored Shard, expect dramatic reactions.

Aggravated damage is awful in Somewhere because it (usually) fucks up your pattern, which is why it's so hard to heal. Since there's no 'pattern' to damage in the Nowhereverse, it's treated as a persistent effect in the area preventing any regeneration... but (if you can survive it) you can just amputate the damaged area and it'll go back to regenerating normally. Worth keeping in mind for the Endbringers.

Neither Taylor nor Prayer directly do Aggravated damage. Sure, as characters they have ways to come up with methods to kill Endbringers, but they don't innately possess the direct capability. In other terms, this is the first TOOL we will have that can kill Endbringers.

When you come right down to it, 'normal' damage to an Endbringer isn't going to kill them, and that's what the Doom Combo is. Sure, it's a LOT of normal damage, but it either isn't exotic enough (Sting, Golden Beam of Fuck You, Aggravated Damage) or doesn't reach their extradimensional shard that powers them (Sting, the Tinkertech weapon that kills Scion) and thus they are capable of withstanding/regenerating from it. Also, the number of times Prayer can execute the Doom Combo is drastically less than the number of times needed to truly threaten an Enbringer.

Only what is being carried by the Mantle itself, so no - no distributing Agg through the SoPA network with Entity Bane.

Further Clarification: Entity Bane only deals Agg when you are PHYSICALLY HITTING Spacewhale Bullshit. To whit:
- Are you in the same dimension as a Shard or Entity's true body, and hitting said body? Do Agg.
- Are you hitting something that is being directly maintained by Spacewhale Bullshit? Something that would either fall apart, become a statue, or disappear entirely without Spacewhale Bullshit? Do Agg.

Examples:
- Are you punching Colin in the face? Do Not Do Agg (to him or his Shard-connection).
- Are you punching Weld in the face? Do Agg (to him, not his Shard-connection).
- Are you punching Prayer in the face while she has her armor up? Do Agg.
- Are you punching Prayer in the face while she does not have her armor up? Do Not Do Agg.
(Those last two may cause you to scratch your head, yes. Just think about it.)
 
Last edited:
Endbringers are not Essenceverse creatures; they have no conception of Aggravated damage.
That's not how it works.
I responded to this elsewere.

Standard mote regen is 4m per turn during combat turns, as long as you're doing your standard 2-dice stunt.
For someone like Prayer, for whom stunting in an EB battle would resonate with her Motivation of proving worthy of Exaltation, she'd be regenning 6m per action.She could literally do it all day without running short of motes, if that's the only active charm she was spending motes on.

Activate Body Reweaving Matrix and ignore any incidental damage; only use a perfect when he throws a bigass move.


Body reweaving matrix takes 12 motes to keep active, her only perfect defense costs 12 motes. I don't think using body reweaving outside of small skirmishes to keep going is a good idea.

If we are using an action long version of "Impenetrable Repulsor Field"* and using 3 instances of "Essence Irradiation Corona" that will cost us 17 motes per action (normally 23, but reduced because of 3-die stunt). We will run out of motes in about 4 actions.
How much damage will be dealt to the endbringer? 24L at the max.


*Prayer doesn't have that submodule for the perfect yet, but it may be a good choice. I am just assuming she will have it in this scenario.
I also assumed she had essence 5.
And no, you don't need to regularly use perfect defenses when fighting EBs; see Taylor who danced with Behemoth for half an hour without reinforcements at Dex 4.Prayer is Dex 7, with a maxed out Dodge and Parry, even before extruding weapons for the parry bonus.
The endbringer's screw around in fights. If we injure them seriously they are going to stop doing that.

However I don't really know what their dicepools look like. If they have something like the "brutal attack" merit (use str instead of dex in your attack pool) they would be pretty dangerous.
I am guessing Leviathan probably has High dexterity.
She even managed to stay ahead of the Vision of Vengeance for a while, which is frankly incredible given what we know her canon stats are.
I don't really remember this that well.
Manton does not agree with you; note how he dispelled Siberian to avoid getting punched by Prayer at the refinery.
The last time Manton took Essence damage, Siberian didn't come back to play until we hunted him/her down.
I don't remember what happened there. I'll go look at it then respond.

1) Iris was in Creation all along, passing from Solar to Lunar to DB to Sidereal and watching.
It's in Autobot's records, bet on it.

2) It is also canon that a lot of MAs were independently reinvented in Autochtonia.
That's what happens when you have a stable population of several thousand Celestial Exalts, with actual Essence 5+ Elder Exalts walking around for most of the First and Second Age.
Point No.1: that might make sense.

Point no.2: it doesn't really make that much sense for them to recreate fire dragon style in Autochtonia. Authochtonia has different elemental poles than creation: Oil, Steam, Smoke, Electricity, Crystal, and Metal.
Maybe a style similar to it.


See my point earlier about stunts and mote regen.
Nevermind, until you have essence 5 it just does damage faster.
I didn't reallise that fire charm had essence 3 min.
Thousand Gears Style
That requires us to use "Essence Irradiation Corona" on all 3 attacks, it doesn't do it for us.
I don't think it is worth it in this case, fire thing is better.
Celestial Crane Style

CMAs are scary.
That intimacy for creation part won't help us fight them (directly), but it may have amusing sideeffects.
Like it might make them depressed if they knew what happened to creation.
 
Last edited:
Agg quotes. As always, some may be obsolete (first two were from SB for example). If I can't get the WoG list pruned today, I will just upload the whole damn thing on googledocs since work kinda slows progress to crawl during weekdays). Actually, might be worth doing anyway.

Ordered from oldest to newest, so expect later quotes to override the ones before.
So the effect of Entity Bane wouldn't be 100% explained by Exalted mechanics?

I interpreted the endbringers as having a huge amount of health levels rather than an ungodly amount of natural soak.
 
I just thought of something.
Martial Arts charms require a human body type, so how could Elder Alchemicals use them?

"Since Celestial martial arts styles generally only run in the Essence range of 2–4 and never beyond Essence 5, this does mean that a lack of hero style extensions leaves Alchemicals without any route to pursue high Essence practice of the martial arts. Elder Alchemical martial artists have mitigated this weakness by exploring avenues of martial arts development that have never occurred to Creation's Exalted—the development of martial styles focusing on the use of warstrider and siege-scaled weaponry. Examples include the warstrider beamklave-focused Light Sharpening Blade style, and Collapsing Point of Judgment style, which utilizes the light implosion bow."

Colossus can also use drone bodies, which might possibly still be able to use human-scale MA.
 
I just thought of something.
Martial Arts charms require a human body type, so how could Elder Alchemicals use them?
Technically speaking, doesn't the Daystar know martial arts, including the style that's named off of it? I believe there was something going on with it where some enterprising martial artist set up some gigantic mirrors in an auspicious configuration that allowed said martial artist to project what they were doing up to the Daystar every day, thus teaching the Daystar martial arts? So, there's precedent right there for that being false.
 
they don't really have much in the way of combat-time regen
They do, actually (at least once you get down to inner layers). After Phir Se's blast:
24.4 said:
Behemoth wasn't any weaker than he had been. Not in terms of what he could dish out. As much as he was wounded, he was healing. Even from where we stood, I could see him healing, flesh expanding, swelling, regenerating.
A bit later:
24.4 said:
Seventy percent burned away, perhaps. The regeneration had slowed, but it was still functioning to a degree.
You are guaranteed 1 die of post-soak damage for 2m at E3, or at E5, 3 die of post-soak damage for 6m.
That gives you a 50% chance of doing at least 1L of damage at E2, or somewhere around 2L of damage at E5.
Per attack that hits.
Better than that, since the base Charm converts 1 dice of post soak damage into a success. In other words, it's 1 HL per 2 motes.

It took multiple shots to kill Behemoth. It took multiple shots to kill Leviathan.
That is not the behavior of shit that's doing direct health damage.
Possible, but it could also be that they've just got heaps of HL (I'd lean towards a bit of both, really).
Basically you can fire off your doom combo, and then repeat the post-soak damage for 4m.

Thousand Gears Style
Ouch! Coming out of HAC and PTA for that, probably be...maybe ~300 damage dice (would be higher, but none of the form weapons would be compatible with the triple mode of PDMH, and I'm assuming no speciality at the moment - could possibly be still worth it to lose the triple for being 'unarmed' though), ~150 HL if we could bypass soak (for Smouldering Wound, ~230 for Thousand Wounds. Edit: Not quite that much for Thousand Wounds, since it's a flurry and PTA doesn't work with flurries. Probably more interested in the Crippling stuff from Thousand Gear Style - Hungry Gear Tooth Attack+EIC for guaranteed Crippling, add Chackram for guaranteed Amputation)? Which is a lot, but not a huge amount more than current (quite cheap with Smouldering Wounds though, and quite nasty if we could get some specialities or good weapons going).
An ordinary and non-magical suit of armor gives you Aggrated soak equal to the Lethal.
Except that's an Essence-based suit of armour, even if it's non-magical.
How much damage will be dealt to the endbringer? 24L at the max.
+Overwhelming. It just depends on how many HL they have, really.
That requires us to use "Essence Irradiation Corona" on all 3 attacks, it doesn't do it for us.
Eh, I'd think it'd be far more a DOOM COMBO enhancer than anything. i.e. Expensive, but they're going to be really feeling it.
Martial Arts charms require a human body type, so how could Elder Alchemicals use them?
I'm pretty sure Elder Alchemicals have their own MA Charms.
I interpreted the endbringers as having a huge amount of health levels rather than an ungodly amount of natural soak.
Probably both - they've definitely got a heap of natural soak (see the complete inability to do damage past a certain point i.e. not enough to bypass soak, and since Ping isn't a thing in Bet...).
 
Last edited:
Wouldn't that mean everyone in Creation would have Agg soak then, since they are also Essence-based? Given that most don't have innate Agg soak, something else is happening I feel.
Eh? I'm not saying that Essence=Agg soak, I'm saying that Essence is a criteria for Agg soak (at least for this quest - there's quotes by Datakim up a bit). i.e. If it's not made of Essence, it cannot have Agg soak, but just being composed of Essence doesn't necessarily give Agg soak.
 
I remember reading a line somewhere stating that the soul escapes after death at some point but it wasn't common knowledge.
I'll have a look through the book tomorrow and see if I can find it.
I know what passage you're thinking of, it's from the 1ed Autochthonia book. I thought the same thing you did, until I embarrassed myself in front of one of the 2ed writers and had to go back and re-read it.

Essentially, once a soul enters a soulgem it's in there for good until it's returned to the Radiant Amorpha. Autochthonians believe that if a person dies without a soulgem that soul is forever lost to the Void, one of the reasons why removing a soulgem before a person's death is seen as a horrible punishment. In reality, a soulgem-less person's soul just stick with its corpse for a few days or weeks before Autochthon passively absorbs it and either returns it to the Radiant Amorpha or eats the tasty po soul and shoves the hun soul into an exceedingly large storage tank.

Incidentally, consuming po souls is not only one of the primary reasons Autochthon brought humans with him in his getaway, but is one of the main reason there are a rising number of stillborn Autochthonians. They are literally running out of souls.
 
Gromweld said that there was a hint for what exactly went wrong in Saki's vision. I decided to quote the vision from Sirkalla and Saki section after section, we can clearly see differences but I have no idea on "what exactly went wrong".
A light breaks over the empty horizon; a light of burnished brass, shining silver, and gleaming gold.

HEAR ME, SIRKALLA WHO BECAME MARROW, AND UNDERSTAND
A light breaks over a dark horizon; a star of brass, silver, steel, bronze, iron, and gold.

SEE ME, SAKI KUROSAWA, AND UNDERSTAND.
So changes here, the most important one "a light breaks over the empty horizon" vs "a light breaks over a dark horizon" maybe oblivion caught up or something? Which of course would be weird because IoI severed the connection. I can't really think about anything that both still exists and is quite dark. Another glaring change is that now everything is much less shiny.

The planet rises slowly, a clockwork sphere of inescapable beauty, wonder, and potential.

I AM THE GREAT MAKER.
More than a star, more than a planet. The brilliant sphere rises slowly, revealing vast and incomprehensible detail, breathtaking majesty…

… and heartbreaking pain.


I AM THE GREAT MAKER.
Here he mostly lost his "potential" and "wonder". He got "pain" instead, bad deal.

Oceans of shimmering oil, clouds of billowing steam and wispy smoke, forests of radiant crystal.

I AM THE MACHINE GOD.
Oceans of shimmering oil littered with curdling flotsam. Thinned clouds of billowing steam pumping from pipes outnumbered by their silent brethren. Spires of crystal marred by jagged fractures.

Trails of acrid smoke snaking across the world like choking fingers.


I AM THE MACHINE GOD.
Here we have the oceans littered with "curdling flotsam", the steam pipes outnumbered by their silent ones, the spires of crystal being broken and jagged and "trails of acrid smoke snaking across the world". Something clearly broke and shattered stuff.

The entire planet shifts, splits, and opens, revealing it to be a living, mechanical Eye.

I AM AUTOCHTHON.
The entire planet shifts, splits, and opens, revealing it to be a living, mechanical Eye.

The oily blood of a god pours from the rheumy Eye in unending tears.


I AM AUTOCHTHON.
Here is Autobot crying.

The Deus Machina swivels slightly and the enormous iris of the Primordial focuses on her formless being, driving all conscious thought from her mind.
The Deus Machina swivels slightly and the enormous Eye of the Primordial shifts to push through the pain and illness… to stare at you.

Such focus is beyond the comprehension of mortals, and it drives all conscious thought from your mind.
Here we can clearly see that Autobot needs to work much harder to push through his illness.
The iris snaps open wide and she plummets into the darkness.
In a sudden eruption that feels like a desperate gasp, power flows up from the machine world and through your mind, body, and soul.

There is a scream beside you, from a girl with your face.

Your mirror reaches out, as you do the same, but she is flung into the distance and into the horizon as you plummet into the abyss of the Eye.
Again Autobot needs to exert much more force to succeed.

Tl;dr the only glaring differences that are possible hints and not "description changes" that I can see is a glaring font size change and the fact that the horizon is now black (which is probably metaphorical and not really a cause for anything). So the only thing I can conclude is that Autobot got a smack upside the head for using the wrong font size in Prayer's vision.
Edit: The "Trails of acrid smoke snaking across the world like choking fingers." are also possibly it, though I have no idea what it is.

Any ideas anyone?
 
Last edited:
Gromweld said that there was a hint for what exactly went wrong in Saki's vision. I decided to quote the vision from Sirkalla and Saki section after section, we can clearly see differences but I have no idea on "what exactly went wrong".


So changes here, the most important one "a light breaks over the empty horizon" vs "a light breaks over a dark horizon" maybe oblivion caught up or something? Which of course would be weird because IoI severed the connection. I can't really think about anything that both still exists and is quite dark. Another glaring change is that now everything is much less shiny.


Here he mostly lost his "potential" and "wonder". He got "pain" instead, bad deal.



Here we have the oceans littered with "curdling flotsam", the steam pipes outnumbered by their silent ones, the spires of crystal being broken and jagged and "trails of acrid smoke snaking across the world". Something clearly broke and shattered stuff.


Here is Autobot crying.


Here we can clearly see that Autobot needs to work much harder to push through his illness.

Again Autobot needs to exert much more force to succeed.

Tl;dr the only glaring differences that are possible hints and not "description changes" that I can see is a glaring font size change and the fact that the horizon is now black (which is probably metaphorical and not really a cause for anything). So the only thing I can conclude is that Autobot got a smack upside the head for using the wrong font size in Prayer's vision.

Any ideas anyone?

Massive Gremlin invasion/Void cult uprising? Maybe OBERASHTI SHOGUN OF GENOCIDE finally went crazy?
 
Another thing popped out to me, relating to the the trails of choking fingers.
He'd only heard her shout once before, and that was when Pill had mixed up the Starmetal and Moonsilver clay just before it was needed for an emergency surgery. Pill hadn't come back the next day.
That is from Idina's interlude, which I took at the time to mean that the previous Starmetal of said assembly died (a starmetal was also not mentioned as part of the assembly, unlike the other casts, except Adamant of course). Perhaps the death of the previous Starmetal is also relevant to this? The time frame fits and you would expect such a catastrophe to also "shine" at the population. Perhaps a war?

The only other thing that I could fathom that happened in the timeframe is VoV, but I doubt that his "mass draining" of essence from Autobot is really big enough to cause such a catastrophe.
 
The key point:
Oceans of shimmering oil, clouds of billowing steam and wispy smoke, forests of radiant crystal.

Oceans of shimmering oil littered with curdling flotsam. Thinned clouds of billowing steam pumping from pipes outnumbered by their silent brethren. Spires of crystal marred by jagged fractures.

Trails of acrid smoke snaking across the world like choking fingers.
Oil is contaminated.
Steam has been silenced.
Crystal shattered.

Smoke leaking in TRAILS, not clouds.

I think...this means war. the Autochtonian nations are at war. Did a major city get lost to Blight? Or did they realize resources are running short and promptly declared war to make a grab for what's left before the others use it all up.
 
Edit: The "Trails of acrid smoke snaking across the world like choking fingers." Are also possibly it, though I have no idea what it is.

Any ideas anyone?

One possibility comes to mind:
OBERASHTI, THE SHOGUN OF GENOCIDE, LESSER ELEMENTAL DRAGON OF SMOKE

Born long ago from Malancari's venomous hate, Oberashti has battened himself for untold millennia on death. Ku's chief attack dog and the most potent weapon in his arsenal, Oberashti is one of the most efficient killing machines in Autochthonia. Normally, his skills are reserved for blight zones and gremlin armies, but every now and then, the Divine Ministers judge that the Maker's long-term health demands the sacrifice of some small city whose faulty geomancy or social policies threaten Autochthon in some obscure manner. Then is the Shogun of Genocide unleashed, and nothing survives his passing.

Oberashti normally appears as a great serpent of coal ash, stretching a quarter-mile, and usually wrapped around the base of Ku's sanctum like a coiled cobra. He can assume the form of a man, but rarely deigns to do so save when he must murder a whole city. Then, he chooses the form of a man of exceptional beauty and boldly walks into the city's heart, attracting adoring fans as he goes, until it is time for his followers to die by his hands.

No one but Ku knows how much irrational joy Oberashti takes from mass murder. If the other Divine Ministers realized how close to becoming a gremlin the dragon was, they would insist that he be put down. Even worse, not even Ku himself realizes just how much dark enlightenment Oberashti has obtained through his meditations on the nature of murder, nor does Ku have any idea just how close the dragon is to ascending into a greater elemental dragon. If fate is particularly cruel, it is quite possible that both these disasters will strike simultaneously, unleashing a gremlin of limitless destructive power into the very heart of the sleeping Primordial.

Oberashti is one of the few elementals that has a cult. Specifically, he is venerated by a debased colony of several hundred Lumpen who eke out a living in the Far Reaches where they pray that the dragon will arise and slay all those who have oppressed the cult's members throughout their history.

Motivation: To kill without restraint.

Attributes: Strength 9, Dexterity 7, Stamina 9; Charisma 4, Manipulation 4, Appearance 3; Perception 4, Intelligence 4, Wits 4

Virtues: Compassion 1, Conviction 5, Temperance 3, Valor 4

Abilities: Archery 5 (Dragon's Suspire +3), Athletics 5, Awareness 4, Dodge 5, Integrity 4, Investigation 3, Lore 4 (Murder +3), Martial Arts 5 (Claws +3), Occult 4, Performance 3 (Feigning Loyalty +3), Presence 4, Resistance 4, Stealth 3

Backgrounds: Allies 3, Backing 4, Cult 3, Influence 4

Spirit Charms:
Dematerialize—Costs 85 motes
Essence Bite—The dragon's poisonous touch means death
Essence Plethora (x4)—40 extra motes
Landscape Hide—The elemental dragon blends perfectly with appropriately large quantities of smoke
Landscape Travel—Oberashti can fly at his normal movement speed
Measure the Wind—Oberashti sizes up potential foes at a glance
Ox-Body Technique (x3)
Principle of Motion—Oberashti typically has nine banked actions
Shapechange—Oberashti can assume a human form
First (Ability) Excellency—Archery, Athletics, Dodge, Larceny, Martial Arts, Stealth
Second (Ability) Excellency—Archery, Athletics, Dodge, Larceny, Martial Arts, Stealth
Third (Ability) Excellency—Archery, Athletics, Dodge, Larceny, Martial Arts, Stealth
Oberashti possess the elemental powers of Dragon's Suspire, Elemental Expression and Elemental Rejuvenation.

Join Battle: 8
Attacks:
Dragon Form:
Bite: Speed 9, Accuracy 12, Damage 12L, Parry DV —, Rate 1
Claw: Speed 7, Accuracy 15, Damage 12L, Parry DV 6, Rate 4
Dragon's Suspire: Speed 10, Accuracy 15, Damage 30L, Range 10, Rate 1
Soak: 13L/25B (Dragon Hide, 8L/16B, Hardness: 10L/10B)
Health Levels: -0/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-4/Incap

Dodge DV: 10 Willpower: 9
Essence: 8 Essence Pool: 165
Other Notes: Oberashti's Dragon's Suspire takes the form of a cloud of noxious poisonous smoke. In addition to the direct damage effect, it also fills 10 times its area of effect with a cloud of this poisonous vapor, inflicting environmental damage for the rest of the scene (Damage 2L/minute, Trauma 3, Tolerance —/—, Penalty -1).

Trails of smoke could refer to a greater elemental dragon of smoke flying around, having gone gremlin and completely rogue, and having decided to destroy everything.

EDIT: What element was it that Auto used to repel Simurgh again?
 
Last edited:
That's not to say that we can't hurt Endbringers: remember, Taylor managed to ping Behemoth's core after it was exposed in the Brockton Bay fight. The hard part is getting that core exposed in the first place. Otherwise, we won't be able to do anything beyond cosmetic damage.
Point of order:
His core wasn't exposed when we shot him. You are right about the rest though.

Warstriders have aggravated soak(there are even autonomous ones).
Endbringer =/= Warstrider.
EBs have natural soak, not armored soak. And an ungodly number of -0 HLs, as well as some sort of wound penalty negator. Probably.

Scion holds back during every fight he is in.
He wasn't holding back when he killed Behemoth. Or Leviathan during Gold Morning.
None of those were the one-shots you'd expect from someone ignoring soak.

Body reweaving matrix takes 12 motes to keep active, her only perfect defense costs 12 motes. I don't think using body reweaving outside of small skirmishes to keep going is a good idea.
Strongly disagree.
The very FIRST thing Prayer does in a fight is activate BRW. She did it versus Crawler, she did it versus Vision. On Taylor's advice.
Because combat-time regen is a big deal.

If we are using an action long version of "Impenetrable Repulsor Field"* and using 3 instances of "Essence Irradiation Corona" that will cost us 17 motes per action (normally 23, but reduced because of 3-die stunt). We will run out of motes in about 4 actions.
You don't spam perfect defenses in a fight; they're panic buttons.
You'd only see Prayer busting them out for super-attacks, like when Behemoth blew up Winslow High with a nuclear equivalent.
And that kind of attack requires concentration and chargeup time on his part; he doesn't just spam it.

The rest of the time, Prayer applies Parry and Dodge.

What you are missing is that Prayer's base DVs are unreal by Earth Bet standards; she has PDV 7/DDV 8 right out of the gate.
A 2-die stunt takes that up to PDV 9/DDV 10; adding a buckler shield on top of that takes her up to at least PDV 12.
And all that's without spending Essence on her defenses, like pumping 1st Dex, or using MA charms, or counting Alloyed Reinforcement's effects.

And there are options we left on the table in chargen.

And then after all that DV, you still have to get past 22L/32B(Jagged Armor + Natural Soak + Adamant MM) or 29L/39B(Condensed Armor + Natural Soak+Adamant MM) before you can even begin chipping away at her 19 HLs.
When we/the GM built Prayer, we went balls to the wall; it takes a lot to survive VoV's casual displeasure, let alone her focused attention.

Like I pointed out earlier, Taylor dodged Behemoth for almost thirty minutes in her old armor, including tanking a direct lightning strike by Behemoth with ~ 17 armored soak. Prayer's armor has double the soak, and she can reach close to double the DV values Taylor went into that battle with, before you count her combat-time regen, or stuff like Alloyed Reinforcement of Flesh.

The endbringer's screw around in fights. If we injure them seriously they are going to stop doing that.
We saw Serious-Face Endbringers when they fought Scion.
The major difference? Tactics, not firepower.

Remember, Ziz gave Leviathan a firepower and knowledge upgrade against Scion.
He wasn't suddenly vastly more powerful, he just used his power smarter.

Point no.2: it doesn't really make that much sense for them to recreate fire dragon style in Autochtonia. Authochtonia has different elemental poles than creation: Oil, Steam, Smoke, Electricity, Crystal, and Metal.
Maybe a style similar to it.
I'm not sure I see your point?

There is Water on Autochtonia. There is Air. There is Fire. There may be Earth.
People use all these things.
The absence of Gaian elemental poles does not mean that any one inventing elemental CMAs is obliged to turn to Autochtonian elements.

Besides, if there is no functional difference between Creation!Water Dragon Style and Autochtonian!Water Dragon Style style besides flavor/fluff, why does it matter?
I am guessing Leviathan probably has High dexterity.
High Dex for EBs does not seem to be particularly transhuman.
Armsmaster/Defiant still melee'd them, Legend still could dodge strikes.

That requires us to use "Essence Irradiation Corona" on all 3 attacks, it doesn't do it for us.
Not what the charm seems to say.
The martial artist makes one unarmed attack with her full dice pool as the first attack of a flurry. If the attack hits, two attacks follow. Those attacks automatically hit for the same number of successes as unblockable and undodgeable attacks.
Maybe someone with more experience of the system will chime in.
 
One possibility comes to mind:
OBERASHTI, THE SHOGUN OF GENOCIDE, LESSER ELEMENTAL DRAGON OF SMOKE

Born long ago from Malancari's venomous hate, Oberashti has battened himself for untold millennia on death. Ku's chief attack dog and the most potent weapon in his arsenal, Oberashti is one of the most efficient killing machines in Autochthonia. Normally, his skills are reserved for blight zones and gremlin armies, but every now and then, the Divine Ministers judge that the Maker's long-term health demands the sacrifice of some small city whose faulty geomancy or social policies threaten Autochthon in some obscure manner. Then is the Shogun of Genocide unleashed, and nothing survives his passing.

Oberashti normally appears as a great serpent of coal ash, stretching a quarter-mile, and usually wrapped around the base of Ku's sanctum like a coiled cobra. He can assume the form of a man, but rarely deigns to do so save when he must murder a whole city. Then, he chooses the form of a man of exceptional beauty and boldly walks into the city's heart, attracting adoring fans as he goes, until it is time for his followers to die by his hands.

No one but Ku knows how much irrational joy Oberashti takes from mass murder. If the other Divine Ministers realized how close to becoming a gremlin the dragon was, they would insist that he be put down. Even worse, not even Ku himself realizes just how much dark enlightenment Oberashti has obtained through his meditations on the nature of murder, nor does Ku have any idea just how close the dragon is to ascending into a greater elemental dragon. If fate is particularly cruel, it is quite possible that both these disasters will strike simultaneously, unleashing a gremlin of limitless destructive power into the very heart of the sleeping Primordial.

Oberashti is one of the few elementals that has a cult. Specifically, he is venerated by a debased colony of several hundred Lumpen who eke out a living in the Far Reaches where they pray that the dragon will arise and slay all those who have oppressed the cult's members throughout their history.

Motivation: To kill without restraint.

Attributes: Strength 9, Dexterity 7, Stamina 9; Charisma 4, Manipulation 4, Appearance 3; Perception 4, Intelligence 4, Wits 4

Virtues: Compassion 1, Conviction 5, Temperance 3, Valor 4

Abilities: Archery 5 (Dragon's Suspire +3), Athletics 5, Awareness 4, Dodge 5, Integrity 4, Investigation 3, Lore 4 (Murder +3), Martial Arts 5 (Claws +3), Occult 4, Performance 3 (Feigning Loyalty +3), Presence 4, Resistance 4, Stealth 3

Backgrounds: Allies 3, Backing 4, Cult 3, Influence 4

Spirit Charms:
Dematerialize—Costs 85 motes
Essence Bite—The dragon's poisonous touch means death
Essence Plethora (x4)—40 extra motes
Landscape Hide—The elemental dragon blends perfectly with appropriately large quantities of smoke
Landscape Travel—Oberashti can fly at his normal movement speed
Measure the Wind—Oberashti sizes up potential foes at a glance
Ox-Body Technique (x3)
Principle of Motion—Oberashti typically has nine banked actions
Shapechange—Oberashti can assume a human form
First (Ability) Excellency—Archery, Athletics, Dodge, Larceny, Martial Arts, Stealth
Second (Ability) Excellency—Archery, Athletics, Dodge, Larceny, Martial Arts, Stealth
Third (Ability) Excellency—Archery, Athletics, Dodge, Larceny, Martial Arts, Stealth
Oberashti possess the elemental powers of Dragon's Suspire, Elemental Expression and Elemental Rejuvenation.

Join Battle: 8
Attacks:
Dragon Form:
Bite: Speed 9, Accuracy 12, Damage 12L, Parry DV —, Rate 1
Claw: Speed 7, Accuracy 15, Damage 12L, Parry DV 6, Rate 4
Dragon's Suspire: Speed 10, Accuracy 15, Damage 30L, Range 10, Rate 1
Soak: 13L/25B (Dragon Hide, 8L/16B, Hardness: 10L/10B)
Health Levels: -0/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-4/Incap

Dodge DV: 10 Willpower: 9
Essence: 8 Essence Pool: 165
Other Notes: Oberashti's Dragon's Suspire takes the form of a cloud of noxious poisonous smoke. In addition to the direct damage effect, it also fills 10 times its area of effect with a cloud of this poisonous vapor, inflicting environmental damage for the rest of the scene (Damage 2L/minute, Trauma 3, Tolerance —/—, Penalty -1).

Trails of smoke could refer to a greater elemental dragon of smoke flying around, having gone gremlin and completely rogue, and having decided to destroy everything.

That would do it. Any other VoVs/Death dragons/Gremlin murder kittens that I need to know about?
 
One possibility comes to mind:
OBERASHTI, THE SHOGUN OF GENOCIDE, LESSER ELEMENTAL DRAGON OF SMOKE

Born long ago from Malancari's venomous hate, Oberashti has battened himself for untold millennia on death. Ku's chief attack dog and the most potent weapon in his arsenal, Oberashti is one of the most efficient killing machines in Autochthonia. Normally, his skills are reserved for blight zones and gremlin armies, but every now and then, the Divine Ministers judge that the Maker's long-term health demands the sacrifice of some small city whose faulty geomancy or social policies threaten Autochthon in some obscure manner. Then is the Shogun of Genocide unleashed, and nothing survives his passing.

Oberashti normally appears as a great serpent of coal ash, stretching a quarter-mile, and usually wrapped around the base of Ku's sanctum like a coiled cobra. He can assume the form of a man, but rarely deigns to do so save when he must murder a whole city. Then, he chooses the form of a man of exceptional beauty and boldly walks into the city's heart, attracting adoring fans as he goes, until it is time for his followers to die by his hands.

No one but Ku knows how much irrational joy Oberashti takes from mass murder. If the other Divine Ministers realized how close to becoming a gremlin the dragon was, they would insist that he be put down. Even worse, not even Ku himself realizes just how much dark enlightenment Oberashti has obtained through his meditations on the nature of murder, nor does Ku have any idea just how close the dragon is to ascending into a greater elemental dragon. If fate is particularly cruel, it is quite possible that both these disasters will strike simultaneously, unleashing a gremlin of limitless destructive power into the very heart of the sleeping Primordial.

Oberashti is one of the few elementals that has a cult. Specifically, he is venerated by a debased colony of several hundred Lumpen who eke out a living in the Far Reaches where they pray that the dragon will arise and slay all those who have oppressed the cult's members throughout their history.

Motivation: To kill without restraint.

Attributes: Strength 9, Dexterity 7, Stamina 9; Charisma 4, Manipulation 4, Appearance 3; Perception 4, Intelligence 4, Wits 4

Virtues: Compassion 1, Conviction 5, Temperance 3, Valor 4

Abilities: Archery 5 (Dragon's Suspire +3), Athletics 5, Awareness 4, Dodge 5, Integrity 4, Investigation 3, Lore 4 (Murder +3), Martial Arts 5 (Claws +3), Occult 4, Performance 3 (Feigning Loyalty +3), Presence 4, Resistance 4, Stealth 3

Backgrounds: Allies 3, Backing 4, Cult 3, Influence 4

Spirit Charms:
Dematerialize—Costs 85 motes
Essence Bite—The dragon's poisonous touch means death
Essence Plethora (x4)—40 extra motes
Landscape Hide—The elemental dragon blends perfectly with appropriately large quantities of smoke
Landscape Travel—Oberashti can fly at his normal movement speed
Measure the Wind—Oberashti sizes up potential foes at a glance
Ox-Body Technique (x3)
Principle of Motion—Oberashti typically has nine banked actions
Shapechange—Oberashti can assume a human form
First (Ability) Excellency—Archery, Athletics, Dodge, Larceny, Martial Arts, Stealth
Second (Ability) Excellency—Archery, Athletics, Dodge, Larceny, Martial Arts, Stealth
Third (Ability) Excellency—Archery, Athletics, Dodge, Larceny, Martial Arts, Stealth
Oberashti possess the elemental powers of Dragon's Suspire, Elemental Expression and Elemental Rejuvenation.

Join Battle: 8
Attacks:
Dragon Form:
Bite: Speed 9, Accuracy 12, Damage 12L, Parry DV —, Rate 1
Claw: Speed 7, Accuracy 15, Damage 12L, Parry DV 6, Rate 4
Dragon's Suspire: Speed 10, Accuracy 15, Damage 30L, Range 10, Rate 1
Soak: 13L/25B (Dragon Hide, 8L/16B, Hardness: 10L/10B)
Health Levels: -0/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-1/-2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-2/-4/Incap

Dodge DV: 10 Willpower: 9
Essence: 8 Essence Pool: 165
Other Notes: Oberashti's Dragon's Suspire takes the form of a cloud of noxious poisonous smoke. In addition to the direct damage effect, it also fills 10 times its area of effect with a cloud of this poisonous vapor, inflicting environmental damage for the rest of the scene (Damage 2L/minute, Trauma 3, Tolerance —/—, Penalty -1).

Trails of smoke could refer to a greater elemental dragon of smoke flying around, having gone gremlin and completely rogue, and having decided to destroy everything.

EDIT: What element was it that Auto used to repel Simurgh again?

Smoke
 
while I understand where you're coming from with that pick, it's just that Snake doesn't quite fit as well as the Flashy Stealth of Crystal Chameleon.
Whynotboth.gif
They're both fast, deadly styles, with Snake leaning more towards firepower and Chameleon leaning more towards surprise.
They do, actually (at least once you get down to inner layers). After Phir Se's blast:
Note how the replacement tissue was characterized
Possible, but it could also be that they've just got heaps of HL (I'd lean towards a bit of both, really).
That's my guess as well.

(would be higher, but none of the form weapons would be compatible with the triple mode of PDMH, and I'm assuming no speciality at the moment - could possibly be still worth it to lose the triple for being 'unarmed' though)
You can use standard chakrams and wind-fire wheels for Thousand Gears for a 1m surcharge.

Probably more interested in the Crippling stuff from Thousand Gear Style - Hungry Gear Tooth Attack+EIC for guaranteed Crippling, add Chackram for guaranteed Amputation)?
Look at Fire Dragon Style as well.
SEARING FIST ATTACK
Cost: 3m; Mins: Martial Arts 3, Essence 2; Type: Supplemental Keywords: Combo-OK, Crippling, Stackable Duration: Instant Prerequisite Charms: None

Strikes supplemented by this Charm hit very painful pressure points and further increase that red-hot agony with a lick of fire Essence. Such great pain draws the target's focus inward, away from the temporal world around her. After successfully inflicting damage with a blow supplemented by this Charm, the Immaculate causes such pain that his victim suffers a -1 internal penalty to all actions for the rest of the scene. This penalty comes on top of wound penalties, and additional uses of this Charm have a cumulative effect.

Massive Gremlin invasion/Void cult uprising? Maybe OBERASHTI SHOGUN OF GENOCIDE finally went crazy?
I think...this means war. the Autochtonian nations are at war. Did a major city get lost to Blight? Or did they realize resources are running short and promptly declared war to make a grab for what's left before the others use it all up.
Trails of smoke could refer to a greater elemental dragon of smoke flying around, having gone gremlin and completely rogue, and having decided to destroy everything.
I think the three of you may have hit on it.

Oberashti, the Shogun of Genocide, might have hit E9 and gone full gremlin, leading a major gremlin uprising.That would certainly spark a crusade and international emergency/war. Would also explain why Auto dropped Sakura off in Estasia, the most militarized state; they need her logistics capabilities in combination with Estasia's military strength.
And even after/if they run him down, they're still going to need logistics to get some of the damage fixed.

I'm really glad right now that we gave her Martial Arts 5.
 
You missed the part that follows it. The 'rapidly regenerated' bit is cosmetic. It's not the ultradense material the skeleton and core are made of.
Is it really all that cosmetic if the non-ultradense material his hard enough to get through for almost any cape except the most powerful ones? Also that less dense material is what got destroyed in the first place; all that effort and it only removed 'cosmetic' material, that then rapidly regenerates.
 
Back
Top