Scify
It always starts with a lighthouse.
IIRC, she introduced herself as such in the movie theater.Edit: Oh, and Saki recognized Bonesaw's civvie name. Fun Time ahoy everyone!
Edit: Apparently not. Hmm.
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Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 23: We Wonder Where Who Wanders When Watchers Wane
- Thread starter Gromweld
- Start date
Edit: Apparently not. Hmm.
Noted.
And because I keep thinking up new thoughts when I should be reading, here's a couple thoughts:
1) Note that Husk Sculpting Apparatus would have keyed off the definition of humanity in both Autochtonia/Creation.
Which, when compared to Earth Bet, is rather broad.
From vanilla to Djala to varieties of beastmen(All The Furries) to various types of mutant.
As in, Saki could make a good going of looking like a wolf-type beastman, or a shadowlands raised human.
So when I joked about Autobot making catgirls, I was more accurate than I knew.
2)Legend doesn't actually know the world is going to end in canon.
He heard the Dinah prophecy, but that was all.
It wasn't until Echidna outed Cauldron that Alexandria told him.
So this is the first time here that he's heard of the end of the world....
3) Lord Grasp is facing the possible End of All Things.
That's something new for him.
Won't keep him humble for very long though; quite the opposite, since Auto picked him as part of the team to deal with this.
4) There is no reason why Prayer can't actually coax her shard to make clothes for her.
None of the magical materials is limited to a particular state, so if she chooses, extruding adamant cloth to cover herself is an option she should be able to learn. She'd be limited to the color range of adamant, though( shades of white/blue/purple), but comparatively, that isn't a big deal.
Welp.
Taylor really does need to spend time with Iris working on that Intimacy; Fear is not seemly.
I miss those days when she was sure that Iris wouldn't hurt her.
You remain unduly fixated on IAT.
Remember that Taylor cannot, will not go back into the Vats until her Assembly is complete; it would take two weeks to complete aligning her new body properly, and she cannot spare the time.
Furthermore, note how it takes about as much time as SoPA to finish healing properly.
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ChandraMagic
I can't be bothered to expend the energy to care
Well, when one Valor 5 being talks to another Valor 5 being....
I will say the same to you regarding Bonesaw. Moving on...
So I was revisiting the idea of exalting Dragon and came across an odd thought. Can we give Dragon a Soul? And would that soul help in preventing the whole Ascalon thing from becoming a problem? The whole thing about having a soul gem is so that the soul is preserved even after death so I wouldn't see a problem if her backup were to retrieve the soul gem and just stick it back into her new head should she fall after all.
You are comparing a nice but non-essential charm to a bioTinker who can now work in Essence?
Okay.....
Eventually.
But the only way to do so at the moment is soul gem, which won't work for her.
In Exalted terms, Dragon would probably map to a spirit or god.
No resurrection in Creation-physics Essenceverse; by Exalted rules, if Dragon dies she's gone, and your backup would be a clone with a different soul of some sort, and probably a different personality.
Note that even Alchemicals, when killed, their soulgems do not resurrect old Exalts, but help raise new ones.
We may alter the rules here, but that has been a standard of Exalted canon, along with no time travel.
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ChandraMagic
I can't be bothered to expend the energy to care
They're both shinies that are nice? to have, but not essential.
Actually, the situation would be quite different here. What I was proposing was that you have the Dragon(with soulgem) dying. Then backup dragon, who is soulless, retrieves the soul gem and re-establishes a connection with it. The result should be no less dragon than any of her copies ever were.
RoninSword
Sky God
- Location
- Canada
So if we stick Iris in the MotDG, will that mean he has to restart the timer for the demesne creation?
Thief of Words
Trans lesbian librarian
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- Best book girl
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Yeesh.
And double-whammy achieved.
Huh. Managed to tie to what I was working with better than I thought I'd get it.
If it's in color or bolded, that'd be where I diverged. Well, at one remove for Malfeas, since infinite growth + infinite shrinkage = infinite stasis.
Still. Dang. That's...poor Lord Grasp. Also, poor Infernal and Cenotaph, if our resident Malfeas and Ebon Dragon charm user ever gets seen by Iris.
Still, another interesting potential difference:
Does Iris mean that as the collection noun the Yozi, or is he referring to a singular Yozi?
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It means that the timer will be going backwards. He doesn't suddenly lose his charge but he isn't going to be building it up either.
Varying levels of usefulness.
Especially since the Assembly has a diplobot at hand now.
I can acknowledge the usefulness of IAT while being bemused at the comparison to a whole new minion and possible collaborator.
Especially since we did consider leaving it off our initial build at the beginning of this quest.
Not the way souls work;you can't slot a soul into a living person and hope it to work.
They are not plug and play items; there is a reason why Iris had to do research on how to slot this in.
Living people without souls are basically zombies; it's an actual punishment in Autoland for their worst criminals.
Dragon is not a creation human. She does not have a native soul. She does not need to have one in order to function as a sophont. Her backups restore from a state prior to when her latest instance was terminated. I do not see why this would be all that different from an infant having a soulgem implanted that had already been though a few lives. Except this infant already has all of the memories of the previous incarnation.
Kinruush
Who?
- Location
- USA
Adorjan returned to spread her love to everyone. Iris still has nightmares.
You are trying to give a Nowhereverse sapient a Creationverse soul, converting that sapient and it's entire existence everywhere to Essence.
Ergo, it will operate by Creationverse rules.
Rule 1: No resurrections.
EDIT
We might change the rules as we convert the Nowhereverse, but that is far in the future.
Do not count on it.
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Thief of Words
Trans lesbian librarian
- Location
- Best book girl
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'd still argue that Chevy covers two of three Orichalcum categories excellently, where Accord only fits one category to that degree. Honestly, I'd more have thought of him as Starmetal, since he tends to work at a remove from those whose problems he strives to fix.
Of the named candidates, Armsmaster fits Ori in all categories, if two better than the third as, contrary to fanon, he does have good PR skills, he just put his points into Performance rather than Presence and gets hyperfocus pretty badly. His one potential issue, depending on how far from canon Armsyfiant he is at present is that his degree of placing ambition above other concerns may make him a bad fit for being an Alchemical.
Alexandria is a good fit for the attributes and methods. She's a good fit for an Orichalcum, but she's almost certainly a bad fit for our Assembly, to the point that it's questionable whether the assembly could sort out the new power dynamics between themselves in time to accomplish what is required before the deadline, as she'd likely assume she'd still be throwing in the exact same weight class within her new categorization as she was as both Alex and as Becky
Legend would be perfect if he were willing. He's not, and we might not have time to convince him.
She said that to Sirkalla. Not to the Wards.
RoninSword
Sky God
- Location
- Canada
In light of the problems with giving Dragon a soul, I am wondering, is it possible in the scope of this quest to turn dragon into a spirit or god? and building on that, would she gain or lose power in doing that to her (much like how she would actually be weaker being an Alchemical than just being unbound).
Edit: Also, was Iris/VoV talking in a language that could be understood by everyone there? Even those who don't actually speak Old Realm? If so, why didn't VoV do that during the Slaughterhouse Nine incident?
Edit: Also, was Iris/VoV talking in a language that could be understood by everyone there? Even those who don't actually speak Old Realm? If so, why didn't VoV do that during the Slaughterhouse Nine incident?
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ChandraMagic
I can't be bothered to expend the energy to care
Again, not really. All it does it change the narrative to go the way you would like it to go. That's it.
Remember this: if you did not have your armour when Behemoth struck, the fight would have played out differently. You would have had the same chance to win, or lose, whether you had your armour or not. Same with the Coil assassination attempt. Both happened the way they happened because you had the armour.
While I'm not sure of how @Gromweld would have played those events out, it boils down to this: they played out the way they did because you had the armour and could tank the bullet, could go toe to toe with a (sandbagging) Behemoth.
It is the exact same thing. Bonesaw is around because you wanted your woobie, and yes, it allows the narrative to go in different directions than otherwise it would go if you didn't have Bonesaw. No Bonesaw means Gromweld would go a different route for certain things to possibly happen.
IAT or no IAT means the same thing. The narrative goes in a different directions.
Thief of Words
Trans lesbian librarian
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- Best book girl
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- She/Her
You'd have to convert her servers and the building housing them to a manse, making her a Material Intelligence. Or an Icemind/IAM-esque animating intelligence spirit.
So spirit yes, god no.
Arguable whether the resulting spirit is actually Dragon or just a freshly created copy made in a new format. Very ship of Theseus-esque in that barring the author writing in Dragon's perspective, it's impossible to say whether you just cloned and murdered her or whether her specific consciousness transferred over. Hence why all the "uploaded consciousness" school of transhumanists ignore a glaring flaw in that method of longevity. The only way to know for sure is to go through it yourself...and it's still impossible to actually prove that what comes out the other side isn't just a copy of the relevant data which thinks it's the original without some demonstrable seat of consciousness or soul that can be pointed to in the before and the after product.
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To be fair, there were likely several opportunities where names could have been exchanged between her and the Wards that were shortly thereafter captured.
Thing is, her servers only house her backups and auxiliary systems.
She is entirely capable of housing her consciousness in a single suit, and does that on the regular.
Basically they play the part that a sanctum would for a spirit/god who got killed: somewhere to reform and reboot.
Unless you get hit with a spiritkiller.
Besides, IIRC, at E4 non-Exalt humans become gods.
Dragon is not biologically one, but was able to play one on TV, so to speak, in canon.
So what happens with her under a new paradigm might go one of several ways.
Thief of Words
Trans lesbian librarian
- Location
- Best book girl
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Different things happen. That's the nature of a causal narrative.
Non-Exalted humans can't get to Essence 4 without being turned into some other class of being, be they Exalts or spirits. You're thinking god-bloods that become gods at E4. Which is accurate. Spirit-bloods become something else (typically their supernatural parent's being type should they make it to E4.
Without that parentage? They outright can't get there at all without the intervention of charms from things that are already there.
Most likely she'd end up some sort of machine-spirit, should she find sufficient access to Autocthonian essence.
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Kinruush
Who?
- Location
- USA
Not necessarily! If it's a gradual upload with a consistent, uninterrupted consciousness, then, from a perdurantist perspective, a "consciousness upload" is no more an existential problem than natural cell death and replacement regardless of whether the original parts exist afterward.
On another note, with the robo-invasion, how long before Saint snaps and uses Ascalon? Should we be looking at ways of saving Dragon before that happens?
- Location
- U.S.
No, just very mad. He dropped his shell, and then gave everyone a reminder of his power. A Fetich is never to be underestimated.
But IAT is just a charm. A boring one at that that is no longer that useful to us.
But IAT matters a lot less than Riley, because it is one ability that I honestly never thought we needed. There is so much more potential for interesting things with Riley than IAT I don't see a comparison.
ChandraMagic
I can't be bothered to expend the energy to care
Yes, and? You selected it because you thought it was interesting. Good for you. That's, uh, the entire reason for the whole voting thing. I just equate it to the same thing because frankly, I don't care (I don't even remember what IAT does, but at the same time, I would have preferred Bonesaw being completely written out, so both things are a wash to me).
So, what I'm saying is that just because you thought Bonesaw (and yes, there is a reason I do not call her Riley, and it's not because I dislike her) was interesting, does not mean that everyone else does, or that they think she is of some sort of importance. Just like some people would prefer IAT because they think it helps with...whatever (I can't remember what it does, can't care enough to look it up), but I would presume that it's because it leads to their shinies.
It's all chasing shinies.
And I don't see the comparison, because Bonesaw does not matter to me. I'm unsure how I could care even less what happens to her. The 'potential for interesting' things with Bonesaw isn't interesting to me, beyond me having to tell @Gromweld he's doing it wrong when he's, you know, doing it wrong. Whatever 'it' is.
So yes, both have equal weight of 'I do not care, nor do I see anything of interest to me.' They are, to me, the same thing. Both things change the direction of the narrative. Does it go in places I'm interested in it going? For both of them? Not really. Are they both something I have to pay attention to in regards to helping Gromweld with whatever it is he writes? Yeah, unfortunately. Such is life.