According to 2E Core, Creation had leprosy, a version of TB, hysteria(!), sleeping sickness, syphilis, rabies and plague among other diseases.
Amusingly, one of the treatments for hysteria is marijuana.
Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 23: We Wonder Where Who Wanders When Watchers Wane
- Thread starter Gromweld
- Start date
Amusingly, one of the treatments for hysteria is marijuana.
I remember asking on the Onyx Path forums a few years back how disease worked in Creation. I.e. was Germ Theory correct.
Stephen Lea Smith obviously said that diseases worked exactly like they would on earth while another dev, forget who, said cholera would besomething more like least gods getting offended by filth*.
Of course this was about 3rd edition.
*this could more less fit how Cholera is spread.
Stephen Lea Smith obviously said that diseases worked exactly like they would on earth while another dev, forget who, said cholera would besomething more like least gods getting offended by filth*.
Of course this was about 3rd edition.
*this could more less fit how Cholera is spread.
The Wards already do that. They are allowed to refuse patrol duty(though both being teenagers and parahumans, it is unlikely for them to desire such a thing for the long term).
Brockton Bay is unusual because it's a shithole, but for the most part a Ward who doesn't want to fight doesn't have to fight.
Remember, Shadow Stalker(and Feint) were punished by not being allowed to go on patrols. Think about that.
There's plenty of room, we could hold a conference if we wanted.
Well, they'd need to have a Starmetal almost ready to go, and I'd note that you want to deploy the moebot to the least trusting, most physically powerful faction because it's easier to have a strong military power converted to peace bring greater unity.
Consider that starting with the other nations is likely to run up against Estasia going "No, we'd rather fight", and that moebots are somewhat less effective against other Exalted who don't trust them.
If it's the Ebon Dragon he totally would try.
This is the same guy who was instrumental in the creation of the UCS, on the basis of "This guy will be all powerful and he will be antitheical to every aspect of me.".
There's a semi-adequate explanation. Oblivion is closer to a form of Antimatter to Creation's Matter than Nothing.
Note that prior to the development of spiritkillers, Primordial on Primordial conflicts would be closer to story-battles, where nobody dies, just change someone else or be changed. They could modify each other, but not truly be diminished.
Except for Autochton, who could diminish.
More like 'sterile' essence I think. They still exist, they can still be interacted with, but the essence is no longer creative, inspired and dynamic.
Recall Stunts and Prayers basically spawning new essence out of nothing? Gone. Only facts, no hopes and dreams.
I'd note that this WAS actually done for the dead Primordials. Post Primordial War, they had to invent funerals and tombs for the dead Titans to pacify their restless husks. They set up dire warnings and wards to contain the spread of necrotic essence, and organized them to be static and silent.Solar Bob: "We kinda broke the universe when we killed some of the primordials, and now their undead corpses orbit an empty void of all consuming nothingness. Should we maybe do something about it?"
Solar Joe: "Damn right we should! We should go there, get the corpses, drag them all up and build a huge border wall made from their dead tomb husks around Creation. We should then carve warnings to stay away on their corpses. That way, the damn dirty Raksha can never enter Creation!"
Solar Bob: "...Damn. I like the way you think Joe. We should absolutely do just that!"
Solar Alice: "That would be too damn expensive. We can't afford to build the wall, and we can't make the Raksha pay for it either. You would never get the votes needed."
Solar Joe&Bob: "Ahh, damn. Well, it was a nice thought."
Solar Jack: "Maybe a fence?"
(What makes this so awesome is that if we accept Ink Monkeys as canon, THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENED!)
A vote will soon go before the Deliberative to decide the fate of the so-called Neverborn. If favored by the majority, our Realm shall begin the process of extracting and moving the diffuse Essences of those fallen Primordials to the borders of Creation, where they will be forged into a great wall of soulsteel and jade. Engraved on these walls will be a history of the terrors and triumphs of the Primordials, leading up to their eventual and total ruin at our hands. Tunnels carved through these walls will house the Labyrinth. These tunnels will be the only method for penetrating this wall, and within them will be the memorial halls of true death, a monument of the horror and ruin that came to the Primordials, frozen forever in cognizant still-life and undeath. Any forces seeking to invade Creation would have to navigate these chambers and see firsthand the fate that befell our greatest enemies.
Such a construct would not only deter future attempts such as the one made by Ramethus, but it would also grant the fallen titans a modicum of relevance and a measure of their former dignity. Unfortunately, this plan is an unpopular one. The general consensus amongst my peers: 'Why bother? We owe them no solace, no end to their ruin. And such an effort would be no doubt outrageously expensive, taking a great toll on not only coffers but life.
The dead Titans slept.
Then some genius thought, "You know, Sorcery is really cool, but I bet if we broke those seals open we'd get to play with whole new toys". So they desecrated the tombs, and basically tortured Necromancy out of them.
...and then just left it like that.
"On the record, I recommended against this course of events."
Yeah, pretty standard.
Well, there's a thing yes.
YOu have to consider that Autochtonian ethics and geography would make isolating and sterilizing an infection much easier, that the cities themselves are Exalted and can grant the benefit of defensive charms upon their populace.
Containing plague is a different matter when it's acceptable to just incinerate the infected, everyone they've met and everything they touched.
Scify
It always starts with a lighthouse.
We know that, OOC (I think. Or is this another thing we've assumed is true and run with?). Do we know that IC? More to the point, does she, or even Cauldron?
RoninSword
Sky God
- Location
- Canada
We know OOC that any parahuman entering the Safe Place does not have access to their power. Anyone who would die without their power (Case 53's, which Alexandria counts as), is kept alive through bullshit magic. Since she is invulnerable because of her power, she can be healed in it.
IC, we don't know this, but Saki will meditate on her charms soon, so we will.
IC, we don't know this, but Saki will meditate on her charms soon, so we will.
- Location
- Columbia, SC
Everytime I read that explanation, I imagine Taylor glaring down an unusually bitchy Alexandria and threatening to have a cloaked Saki hug-pomf her to Safe Space to "play" with Lord Grasp.
Given that Estasia is possibly the least trusted of the Eight Nations, that is a rather amusing choice from my PoV; they're the only nation that has tried to conquer other Autochtonian nations.
That's why I mentioned Jarish, which has probably the best rep of the Autochtonian nations, and thus the best chance of being listened to..
I guess they could simply conquer everyone else
This was only an option when they weren't already losing manpower and souls to a mix of Void sickness and Autobot munching on po souls.
Not to mention that wiping out their rats, for example, is a massive economic and public health expense for nations with little margin.
And there actually are wild rats in Autochtonia to act as a persistent reservoir for shit like plague.
Let alone the flu, which is infamous for it's willingness to mutate.
Consider that large percentages of the Nations do not live or work in metropolis.
Or that overly harsh public health measures(incineration? Really?)will actively make people hide symptoms until they're advanced, meaning that shit will spread faster and wider.
Or that desperate people might turn away from the state to the Void.
The way I understand things, Autobotland is already in dire straits due to Void-sickness causing losses in mission-critical personnel and general manpower, as well as a general suspiciousness.
Consider how in Idina's Interlude, a valued Sodalite like the PoV character was being warned by a freaking Alchemical not to be too frank about talking so as not to draw the secret police.
Adding another public health emergency on top of what they're already fighting would be Bad.
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Kinruush
Who?
- Location
- USA
Alexandria would be great if she wasn't so incredibly untrustworthy a candidate.
Guys?
We might actually need Craft(Plague).
Because we are unlikely to get the public health apparatus in Bangladesh, say, working in time to forestall something like the Grand Contagion from killing hundreds of millions. Crafting and distributing a counter-plague to confer immunity, on the other hand is entirely within our capabilities.
Kinda like how cowpox conferred immunity against smallpox.
IC, we have no way of knowing about the Great Contagion yet, do we?
Lore 5, Autochtonia 1.
And Iris was in Creation for it.
And the memories she has yet to understand because she hasn't bought Linguistics(Autochtonian) in may also hold knowledge.
Even if the GC didn't happen to Autochtonia, or that the Alchemical Away Teams who retrieved Iris didn't come back with records or refugees?
The moment it occurs to Taylor to think of epidemiology, Iris will help fill it in.
Gromweld
Learning By Mistake
Since Alexandria has a Strength score of well over 100, that might be more difficult than simply establishing surprise.
(insert joke about being surprised that she is not a spineless wimp afterall).
- Location
- U.S.
Not a thing. We would need medicine, and probably Craft(Genesis). Plagues would be a specialty under Genesis. But I honestly think just going for more medicine and then co-operating with RIley might be easier.
HSA to App 7, acquire Taylor, activate Soulsteel anima power, pose with Body Language and roll to intimidate:
Or if you want to be boring about it, Draught of Blessed Respite from ambush via judicious application of Multifunction Hypodermic Apparatus.
Just waiting for the analysts to put together the implications of that combo.....
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It is worth remembering that we CAN create the nanites ourself in collaboration with Armsmaster, so long as we get Taylors Medicine to 4-5 range. We could also have her study nanotech as free actions to try and get specialty dots, and SPU and Bonesaw will make it even easier.
Sure, we have to save up XP for chargen now, but remember that its going to take YEARS before Earth is converted to Essence (we have not even started the 1 month chargup for our first demesne yet!). And even after full conversion, summoning Auto will likely take time. So by the time this is an issue, we can expect Taylor to be Medicine 5 + Nanites 3 + Disease 3 + Whatever 3. Throw in other things such as Iris presumably having considered ideas and parahumans like Wyld who could create things that grant immunity to diseases and I figure that by the time we are ready to start summoning Auto, normal diseases won't be a massive concern anymore.
The Great Contagion is potentially more problematic though, if its in Autochtonia. The GC is NOT somekind of ordinary disease, but rather some bizarre magical necromantic illness one of the Deathlords pulled out of the Well of Udr. To give just one example of how bullshit that disease is, its mentioned how one Sidereal exalt in heaven became infected, while watching the thread of fate of someone who had been infected.
Its basically a super-necro disease that infects you, if you see another infected person on TV (or something like that). Its probably the reason why in 1E scenario, it spread so quickly and could not be quarantined in Autochtonia. The Great Contagion is not a normal disease. Its like a disease that managed to acquire an exaltation for itself and become total bullshit as a result.
Its even suggested that it was actually supposed to be 100% fatal, and only the chaotic energies of the Wyld caused by the Balorian Crusade happening at the same time, somehow managed to alter something somehow, so that 10% lived.
Thief of Words
Trans lesbian librarian
- Location
- Best book girl
- Pronouns
- She/Her
To be fair,
Worse is different.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Now I'm thinking about the Unix "worse is better" motto and the fact that Mac OS is a certified Unix.
"Worse is different. Think different!"
Gromweld
Learning By Mistake
I'm not sure where it's stated, but I remember reading about how the Great Contagion couldn't be countered by normal medicine, so the only way to fight it was with another infection. Thus, the way to cure someone was for a Solar/Abyssal charm to infect them with Wellness. Amazing.
Next part tomorrow, dinner/family was a bit more draining than anticipated.
- Location
- NM
Missed the best canon example: Browbeat. Basically said "fuck this, I'm out" when shit starting going down. Opted out of pretty much everything, at least until he transferred to another city.
What makes her so untrustworthy, exactly?
Thief of Words
Trans lesbian librarian
- Location
- Best book girl
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Celestial wine could cure it. A few other 5-dot artifact / E5+ Solar-tier-charmtech equivalents could manage it as well. But it essentially required something on the level of Solar medicine or a perfect effect, which the Usurpation inconveniently wiped out the wielders of.
You mean besides the ego the size of a shard's world-body? Or the duplicity? Or the fact that she (despite not having shard-based mental influence on her) has Tattletale equivalent tendencies to run a thousand miles an hour in the wrong direction?
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Ego isn't really an accurate accusation.
And the idea that there was no shard-based mental influence isn't actually accurate; as Noelle proved, Case 53s are much more stable, but not entirely immune.
I'll give you duplicity though.
Then again, it's not like honesty is much of an option in a world where TMI could lead to Scion dropping the hammer.
Evil Atlas
Inspector of Details
- Location
- Denial
- Pronouns
- He/Him
She's mostly untrustworthy because of the conflict of interests between Cauldron and the Assembly, but the fact that she didn't take our advice against Crawler and the general duplicity of Cauldron agents don't help. Also, there's a lot we don't know about her, which means we can't accurately judge her as an Exaltation candidate at this point. There's also a high likelihood of her having some hidden agenda(s) that don't align particularly well with our own plans and priorities.
Basically, she hides a lot of stuff, we don't really know what she wants, we don't know whether we're dealing with her real personality or a facade, and we know she has plenty of commitments and priorities in place that she may put before the Assembly's goals and wellbeing.
Basically, she hides a lot of stuff, we don't really know what she wants, we don't know whether we're dealing with her real personality or a facade, and we know she has plenty of commitments and priorities in place that she may put before the Assembly's goals and wellbeing.
Thief of Words
Trans lesbian librarian
- Location
- Best book girl
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yes, it very much is. Her inability to consider the possibility that she might have made an error in her initial judgments of Skitter killed her canon iteration.
She literally died for her hubris in canon, so ego is is not only a valid accusation, it is her literal fatal flaw.
Also: from what I could tell, shard influence on Cauldron capes was almost entirely a byproduct of a flawed shard with the Butcher, Sveta, and Noelle being the most triumphant examples thereof. Except the Butcher whose shard was so badly butchered it learned a new trick entirely, the others were the result of inhuman elements of their biology having impacted their psychology. It wasn't agent influence in those cases (with the possible exception of Noelle, who it cannot be stressed enough was an outcome of ignoring every best practice in Cauldron vial usage all at once. For most it was rather a failure for the partly/mostly dead agent to form a workable bond with its host in ways that screwed them up mentally rather than (or in addition to) physically. When I said mental effects earlier, I meant to specifically refer to the shard-enforced imperative to further the cycle and spread conflict. It's canon that Cauldron partly put as many of their capes into organizations such as the PRT expressly to mitigatethe trend toward causing conflict in natural triggers.
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- Location
- NM
Her ego isn't really an issue. She's more concerned with major issues (saving every Earth) than any personal advancements.
While the duplicity is present, I'm not seeing it as being much of a trust issue. This wasn't about power, it was about saving the world. Keep in mind Taylor has Intimacy 4 for Cauldron's motivations, if not their methods. She'd sympathize, not have an issue with it. Also of note, Alexandria was perfectly willing to step down if it was necessary/useful.
Only two major gaffs that come to mind are the canon scene with Taylor, which was caused by Taylor being able to offload emotions to her swarm, something she had no knowledge of/ability to predict, and the quest scene with Crawler/Siberian, which likely stemmed from her worry about containing Crawler before he could severaly injure/kill a bunch of PRT troops.
Not the optimal choice, but it was a minor issue that created a large problem—not enough time to sit down and listen to explanations/wait for scans, she chose to risk herself rather than let the PRT troops get killed by Crawler.
See above. There wasn't much time and she chose to risk herself over the troops. Not really optimal from our perspective, but it's a minor issue at heart.
Said conflicts are relatively minor. From a quest perspective, we're going to accomplish Cauldron's goal at some point regardless. Afterwards, Cauldron's only remaining goal is ensuring Humanity doesn't crumble in the aftermath, which we'll have to work towards anyways since we're going to be migrating a lot of people—Also a net positive for Cauldron, since it's likely a lot of individuals will die if Scion/Endbringers go on a rampage.
We know a pretty decent amount about her, easily enough to judge her as a candidate. There are definitely blank areas that Grom will have to fill in, but we know quite a bit about her.
Not really? Her agendas are pretty clear to us. They're basically Cauldron's, which is just stopping Scion/saving every Earth and ensuring Humanity can stabilize and doesn't fall apart in the aftermath. She definitely used to have her own hobbies/interest/etc (reading, for instance), but it looks like that was put aside with how busy she was with PRT/Protectorate/Cauldron stuff.
I'm sure I addressed this above... but that's a serious misrepresentation. She was lacking a vital piece of information. She had no reason to suspect it was there. She didn't think "oh, well even if I get her wrong I can handle it because I'm such a badass." Yes, she fucked up, and yes, it killed her, but it wasn't an issue of ego. She had no reason to suspect her judgment to be wrong.
That would be like if, overnight, someone took the key you keep under your doormat, made a copy, and then put it back under the mat and arranged everything exactly the same way it was before. No witnesses. Nothing at all to even hint that anything happened. From your perspective nothing has changed, but now a stranger has a key to your house without your knowledge. Except what Taylor was doing was even more subtle than that.