sainen
Elder Lich
MM fits just fine as an Ori, in fact she probably fits better than Armsmaster currently does.
Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 23: We Wonder Where Who Wanders When Watchers Wane
- Thread starter Gromweld
- Start date
Twei
I have a face!
- Location
- the land where they write things
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I will assume you're correct and agree with you forever because:
We're technically still supposed to be discussing a vote. We require additional stunts. And free actions. And stunts. So I will at least attempt to get off the Exaltation talk and back to the matter at hand.
I think a lot of people, myself included, wanted a stunt for ensouling Accord. ( I wrote one, but it was eh. And someone else wrote one, but it was slightly less eh?) Plus we need stunts for whatever else we might want to do.
...what else might we want to do with our free actions? And our other stunts, for that matter. Hrmm.
addendum: and maybe more arguing about the cauldron vote since it's fairly in depth
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Kinruush
Who?
- Location
- USA
We're technically still supposed to be discussing a vote. We require additional stunts. And free actions. And stunts. So I will at least attempt to get off the Exaltation talk and back to the matter at hand.
I think a lot of people, myself included, wanted a stunt for ensouling Accord. Plus we need stunts for whatever else we might want to do.
...what else might we want to do with our free actions? And our other stunts, for that matter. Hrmm.
Haha, yeaaaaah. Uh, to get back on topic, I'd be in favor of EOA's free action to be for ensouling Accord and WoRI's to be the Assembly-only chat in her Safe Space that we really need to have. They could talk about all of the issues Saki has with what's happened, how to handle the shady shit with Cauldron, Taylor's intention of Exalting Aisha next, and what each of them want out of future Assembly members.
Personally, I'm also in favor of:
[ ] PRT Announces "Alchemical Parahumans"
and some combination of
[ ] The Truth (Iris/Vision and Taylor did it. Stunt defines "The Truth.")
[ ] Blame Jack (Jack did it. Stunt defines "The Truth.")
like using The Truth, but stunting to say that while Vision did it, it was still Jack's fault, or Blame Jack, but say he used Vision to accomplish it.
Twei
I have a face!
- Location
- the land where they write things
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I can agree with those first two. I'm still pretty agnostic on the PRT part, but I'm thinking that you're looking for the third option on the last bit. With the stunt defining it as 'Jack crossed the streams and unleashed the unspeakable evil' instead of 'NOBODY FUCKING KNOWS', if that makes sense?
I mean, obviously The Whole Truth is complicated, and unlikely to be released as a soundbite if at all. Jack was probably involved, but VoV was definitely directly responsible, I think? And Taylor was used. This is more a question of how we spin it. Do we want people to be scared of us? Do we want to, well, blame Jack? Or do we want them to feel confident that it won't happen again? Something vaguely along those lines, I think.
"Crossing the streams" would have been a cleaner/quicker death for Jackie boy. VoV took his time...
Kinruush
Who?
- Location
- USA
For the PRT bit, I think if we move now we can manage the way Alchemicals are revealed pretty effectively, and we won't give time to anyone else who knows enough to taint the reveal. Also, with Moebot and the PRT PR department I think our reveal can be positive enough to get us more political capital to use how we might want. I'm not sure what sort of stunt I'm looking for with it, though.
A little bit of all of those, I think, is what I'm after. Enough truth that we can't be called out for lying, enough blame on Jack that our PR isn't hurt too badly, maybe lean on our S-Class power Rep to imply it could've been worse if we weren't handling it.
- Location
- NM
Has Grom confirmed that that's what we get from MM's shard? Because that's not what MM's shard is/does. If Grom's using her canon shard, she'd be a really neat Alchemical. Even if it's just guns though, there's still a lot of potential there.
None of that matters, though. Exalt the person you want to see more of. The power is just aesthetics, really. Grom will adjust the threats we face based on the tools we have at hand.
We're technically still supposed to be discussing a vote. We require additional stunts. And free actions. And stunts. So I will at least attempt to get off the Exaltation talk and back to the matter at hand.
Alchemicals On Parade: (Choose ONE, ONE Stunt allowed!)
[ ] PRT Announces "Alchemical Parahumans"
[ ] Alchemicals remain a PRT "Ongoing Investigation"
Leaning towards "Ongoing Investigation" for now. That way Saki can have a bit more time to get used to her job as PR.
Long-time lurker, first-time poster, hi, etc.
So yeah, Accord needs a soul. You know who else needs a soul? His Ambassadors - most particularly, the Butcher formerly known as Citrine!
Now, Riley's soulgem implanter probably isn't combat-ready, so doing that might be more than a free action can handle... but I still think it's worth keeping in mind.
Otherwise, we should probably stunt ensouling as many people / extras as are willing to volunteer - not only the big names.
So yeah, Accord needs a soul. You know who else needs a soul? His Ambassadors - most particularly, the Butcher formerly known as Citrine!
Now, Riley's soulgem implanter probably isn't combat-ready, so doing that might be more than a free action can handle... but I still think it's worth keeping in mind.
Otherwise, we should probably stunt ensouling as many people / extras as are willing to volunteer - not only the big names.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
I'm pretty sure he's doing both.
I mean, it seems pretty clear that you don't get Shard powers if you're not going to use them, and Accord's power is one that tends to upset the established order. It seems pretty clear to me that he's a supervillain for fairly similar reasons that canon Taylor was; he wants to help, and he couldn't do so through the official channels.
That's... kinda what I was getting at? Yes, she can accurately predict what we will try to do in a given circumstance. Whether we succeed or fail though is a question mark. The problem is that PTV isn't a tight probabilistic model. It's a "perfect slippery slope" argument. One thing leads to another leads to another and so on with slight nudges by Contessa to get the right results. It's a tight algorithm that depends on everything falling into place like dominoes. At best she can make estimates like we do and say "well it's reasonable to assume ~.5 success per die thrown" except that Contessa can only guess at the number of dice in the pool as the pool randomly increases in size. But yeah, she can reasonably assume that if she pokes an alchemical in a certain way they will respond consistently with her predictions. How they preform is the question that throws longer paths off kilter.
Graypairofsocks
What is Grammar?
- Location
- earth
This is great stuff. You should try writing an omake.
@Stratagemini
A lot of those are really good stunts; the prospect of Riley on a playdate never ceases to amuse, and MarKali shenanigans give me the warm fuzzies.
But this?
This is fantastic.
A lot of those are really good stunts; the prospect of Riley on a playdate never ceases to amuse, and MarKali shenanigans give me the warm fuzzies.
But this?
This?
This is fantastic.
It's unfortunately five words too long... 
Easy enough to fix.It's unfortunately five words too long...
5 words down.
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Stratagemini
Totally a Fire Ferret.
- Location
- Central Park
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
[ ] WoRI - Free Action:It's unfortunately five words too long...
"You're actually a Pagoda?" John Stewart asks incredulously. "Not just a pagoda," Warden translates Crushing Grasp's increasingly bombastic bragging, "A Mark III Siege Pagoda. The ultimate in personal transport and luxury. Lord Grasp would be happy to give you a tour so that you can, and this is a direct quote 'Bask in the awesome splendor of his luxurious surroundings.'"
-5 Words
Graypairofsocks
What is Grammar?
- Location
- earth
Where is this implied?
Taylor remembering her mother's history with Lustrum in 27.03
The qualifier about more fanatical followers suggests that it wasn't the home office policy, so to speak.
The humiliation was certainly her policy, the castrations and murders less so, but followers tend to enthusiasm.
She'd still be legally responsible for it.
It hadn't been mentioned but Wyld thrives off interaction. Unleashing the Wyld on a literally barren, or plant-only planet would progress slowly, for the same reasons that stories which drop a naked person into a bare concrete room quickly runs out of things to do.
Unleashing it on an unoccupied planet would grow slowly, but the local wildlife would produce interesting interactions.
Unleashing it on a populated planet would produce the greatest gains, as the complexity of interaction would cause the wyld to react. It's of course, unacceptable.
That said, people seem to forget about the possibilities of alternative biomes. We can control animal life. There's no reason we can't find a geographically similar earth which never undergone the meteor induced extinction event. Then we can grab dinosaurs and giant insects for control.
You'd need to find and extract her Broadcast equivalent.
- Location
- Right in front of you
I have no idea what your were trying but I put in: 11:59 PM PST 2016-12-2 and it works perfectly.
And it also seems like that time has passed, shouldn't you make a voting start threadmark and post?
9.5 Voting: Discussion End, Voting Start
Okay, I was about to fall asleep when I had a flash of inspiration.
And so I'm sharing it lest I forget.
The entire thing
The Truth is the HARD approach.
It's lays implicit public claim to controlling/merging with an EB-class entity.
It colors how you/we and the rest of the Assembly will be officially treated henceforth, and the kind of people who might be amenable to Conversion, as well as public opinion.
The expectations will be greater, for one thing, but people will be more deferential.And less willing to deny you without pressing need.
Won't be particularly popular though.
Blaming Jack is the SOFT approach.
Piles the blame on someone not alive to complain.
This is the option that leaves people thinking they can bully or threaten themselves a place in the Assembly; also the option that leaves our superiors yelling at us. BUT, it's the man/woman of the people approach, and the one that attempts to stockpile goodwill against the future.
It will also likely affect the kind of candidates we get, and how difficult some people will be to persuade than others.
For example, I expect Accord would be more favorably disposed towards 1, not because of sadism, but because it implies we retained control at all times. Miss Militia is more likely to be impressed by option B, which suggests that we did not intend to wipe out Philly.
Swamp Gas attempts to pull a smoke and mirrors trick.
Hope this makes sense when I read it in the morning.
And so I'm sharing it lest I forget.
This vote is about how we wish to be treated.
The entire thing
The Truth is the HARD approach.
It's lays implicit public claim to controlling/merging with an EB-class entity.
It colors how you/we and the rest of the Assembly will be officially treated henceforth, and the kind of people who might be amenable to Conversion, as well as public opinion.
The expectations will be greater, for one thing, but people will be more deferential.And less willing to deny you without pressing need.
Won't be particularly popular though.
Blaming Jack is the SOFT approach.
Piles the blame on someone not alive to complain.
This is the option that leaves people thinking they can bully or threaten themselves a place in the Assembly; also the option that leaves our superiors yelling at us. BUT, it's the man/woman of the people approach, and the one that attempts to stockpile goodwill against the future.
It will also likely affect the kind of candidates we get, and how difficult some people will be to persuade than others.
For example, I expect Accord would be more favorably disposed towards 1, not because of sadism, but because it implies we retained control at all times. Miss Militia is more likely to be impressed by option B, which suggests that we did not intend to wipe out Philly.
Swamp Gas attempts to pull a smoke and mirrors trick.
Hope this makes sense when I read it in the morning.
I did try making an ensouling free action.
But hell is it hard to make something in 60 words or less. For me in particular, since I have real trouble expressing without major verbosity. Not that I have lots of creativity with more. either.
Cool, works. Well, Quote window shows it in its original way, but it shows Tuesday, December 6th at 1:00 AM to me.
- Location
- Right in front of you
14 actually no?
Some basic voting choices for me:
[ ] PRT Announces "Alchemical Parahumans"
[ ] The Truth (Iris/Vision and Taylor did it. Stunt defines "The Truth.")
Going for truth here but we will need some good stunts.
Still undecided about Cauldron.
Autochthonia Adventure #27: Must Go Faster, MUST GO FASTER! (Choose ONE, NO Stunt!)
[ ] Overload The Engine
[ ] Turn Guns On Ceiling
[ ] Cut Losses, Kamikaze
I still have no idea what each of these mean, and I kinda feel like you all understand them due to no one really asking about this.
Interlusions Of Grandeur: (Choose ONE, NO Stunt)
[ ] Armsmaster
Someone mentioned that now Armsmaster can figure the entire VoV shard killing thing out. I really want to see his opinion on this, and if not then I want a new trigger view of things.
I don't think we should spend any XP right now. Nothing really all that pressing either.
- Location
- Austria
Given that Gromweld said that Cauldron won't share intelligence until higher Backing, we should buy Backing 2, I think. Because warning from them can save boatload of trouble.
Of course, if/when Cauldron is revealed, the closer we were, the more of blame will fall on us too. Still think it's worth it, and reveal of Cauldron is a failure state of affairs anyway.
And we already gave them capes for shinies so the boat has sailed and we need them for vials and dimensions anyway so we can't not be a partial blame-target.
Eh. Position of influence then. Point is, its a place where we would be in a position go cause change if we want to. Especially in combination with Sakis organization level social charms. Its unlikely that Chevalier would be kicked out from his position of influence either then (even if his is command), and he would prove himself as able to serve as before quickly enough.
Your pigs-to-gold idea remains as awesome as ever. Unfortunately, "Transmutational Catalyst Gas" submod has "Nerve Gas" as one of its prereqs, and Nerve Gas is E4 submodule. So Aisha won't be getting it anytime soon. Heck, its possible the writers of that submodule thought of this possibility too (some parts of Creation use silver for example), and so locked it up behind E4.
But yeah, thats ultimately another way of getting acquiring lots of wealth. Ultimately all our assembly members are capable of producing lots more money with just a small starting amount to get the ball going. Thats why it would be (IMHO) very foolish to do something like use all our credits on money. Using even might be worth it so we have a source of money, and an account with Number Man. That way, we could get started anytime we wish, and have an account PRT cannot track.
If thats true, then removing (well, minimizing) the shard will not change those aspects of his personality in any way, and we will be able to tell. At that point we would be in prime position to decide how to proceed. Right now, we don't really know. We got Bonesaw, and one of the reasons was for her tinkertech lore (lets face it, SV likes shinies). The result of that was a soulgem injector, and Iris made 100 soulgems or so before going to demesne charging. It seems to me that we should start actually USING the injector then, in order to start introducing souls to Earth!Bet. And given the talk about shard conflict and Accords nature, Accord seems like such an obvious first candidate.
Once he has a soul, we will all be able to SEE for ourself. If he remains a huge dick, then he would probably go down in the lists of many who voted for him (including me).
It might have been real Alexandria too. She can presumably talk, just not move or such. Saki noticed Taylor having somekind of mental breakthrough while looking at RCB, and theres atleast a decent chance that it was her using superb mental stats (perception particularly) to figure out whats what.
Yeah, Gromweld said something like that. I posted the quotes from Gromweld that mentioned in MM in some contest last page. HERE.
Most likely she would have access to artifacts, with submodules that would expand the range of the artifacts she can summon. I could see her being able to summon usefull utility artifacts at say E4 (or maybe even E3 with sufficient prereq stats). So MM might for example be able to just pull out a Jade Trinket of Dignified Contact at will, and other artifacts (possibly limited by her Essence level, so dot 3 stuff at E3 perhaps?). At higher essence levels, she can probably summon more and more, so for example at E5 (seems to be the "super-submodule) for shard-charms, she might well be able to basically pull a jade Celestial Battle Armor at will.
Note that the above was all personal speculation and not anything Gromweld said. Really, the one concern is whether or not Auto would lose access to earth-style weapons (the way Sakis shard reset). That would be a potential issue, since many of them are pretty handy, and would remain so even with access to essence-based weapons.
While this is true, Gromweld has basically made it clear that it will take a loong time (years) for Shards to figure out Essence. Also, it, or rather souls, will always make things a tiny bit unstable. In Nowhereverse, everyone is meat robots without free will, whereas Souls apparently give actual true free will. Granted, its still going to be possible to calculate how people are likely to work, but once souls (and essence for now) get into the picture, theres always going to be a chance of being wrong.
I will try to get the searchable Word of Gromweld thing up and running on the wiki this weekend. If not, it should atleast be up during tuesday minimum (independence day in Finland, so I have that day off), unless I run into some major unknown problems.
First, Taylor has no issues building "Equipment" (which is artifact equivalent for Nowhereverse tech), so Armsmaster would presumably be able to continue doing it aswell, except better and with a greater list (Auto likely got hints on technologies from QA and other shards, even if they are not currently in Tinker format). Taylor also has IEU (and odds are Armsmaster would get it too), which would speed such things by a factor of 8. There are also other crafting charms for Alchemicals.
Basically, an exalted Alchemical crafter with a tinker shard-charm, who had the whole package put together personally by the Primordial of Innovation, is almost certainly going to be awesome and great when it comes to all types of crafting. This includes normal Equipment tinkertech based on Nowhereverse-physics, perhaps somekind of combo technologies that might merge Magical Materials with Equipment to achieve the best of both worlds, and ofcourse purely exalted based stuff such as Artifacts and the like.
Theres also the fact that I don't believe Gromweld would screw us over by giving us a sucky power for the shard, unless we were to knowingly and deliberately choose someone incredibly stupid (though in that case the exaltation would probably just fail to begin with).
Well, we know that Sakis dimension basically has an inbuilt life-support, so Alexandria won't be dying there. Thats actually why Sakis dimension is essential, because it keeps Case-53s alive even when they disconnect from their shard. If not for that, Taylor could basically use Optical Shrouding together with the Hidden Assembly Conclave to block Alexandria from her shard on her own. However unlike Sakis dimension, that would be fatal.
Taylors omnitools, Medicine 3 (though we might want to buy it to 4 before the surgery at the latest), Sakis Hypodermic with several types of healing drugs and Prayers Body-Reweaving Matrix - Beneficence Programming all make it highly unlikely that Alexandria would die. And we can also get Cauldron to find some highly skilled surgeons who can be trusted to keep quiet, and get their help together with SPU, to stack the odds even further in our favor.
Really, the one thing that might go wrong, is if for some reason Alexandrias shard won't recognize the healed Alexandria post-operation, when we return to the real world, and won't reconnect with her. We would be changing her physically afterall, and Eden shards are likely to be less well programmed. Though even that seems improbable to me.
So ultimately? I think there is a VERY high chance of success. Ofcourse, research on how Eden shards work could only help (if we get the chance to stunt, we might be able to throw this argument to Doctor Mother when it comes to Vial research collaboration).
Yeah, though Cirine also likely needs POS treatment to undo the damage the previous Butchers have already done.
Its also worth keeping this in mind:
CULT said:
So lets say a dozen part-time worshippers with souls would already give Accord 1 bonus WP each morning. Now this is not all that usefull to say Taylor, since she can easily achieve dot 2 stunts and get WP that way, making a single extra WP pretty meaningless. For Taylor to benefit, we would need mote regen, which comes at dot 2 cult:
More Cult said:
Unfortunately, while a dozen or so ambassadors doing ritual worship towards Accord would not be all THAT hard to manage, several hundred people worshipping Taylor (or Iris) would be.
However Heroic Mortals apparently would require dot 3 stunts to be able to regain WP, so if we don't exalt Accord, having a dot 1 cult to gain more WP to throw agains his shard every day would actually be meaningfull.
Riley apparently already used it to implant a soulgem on herself and give herself a soul, so it is indeed ready for operation. Also, given how much we talked about it, Gromweld would have said something if it was not.
I would be all for giving souls to as many volunteers as possible, but odds are people would not really be willing until we get the ball rolling. First time soulgems should be focused stunts as consequence. Once people start to see the benefits, and see it causes no harm, we will hopefully be able to arrange for "mass ensoulings".
This was explicitly confirmed as being true by Gromweld.
Where is this stated? Wyld seemed to do just fine encompassing the entire universe before Primordials made Creation. Gromweld has also stated that Raksha will form on their own once Wyld appears. So I figure a wasteland world would work just as well.
More likely they would all first mutate horribly, and then die in agony, as things progress towards Pure Chaos (No Loom of Fate or Elemental Poles to stop it, so it would almost certainly NOT stop at bordermarch level or anything, but would basically eventually become deep wyld.
This would be an act of utter evil and mass genocide on a massive scale.
Well, apparently her avatar is actually screaming physically or something? I figure if her broadcast shard was transmitting a scream at full power, Scion would already have reacted.
We could probably minimize the backlash if we can prove we used Cauldron to good causes (such as trying to actually cure C53s rather than just throwing them to the streets).[/quote]
Quite possibly. Note that Armsmaster had a front row seat to VoV, and according to Legend:
VoV was going all:
Backing to 2 dots might be worth it, since we are going to be dealing with Cauldron during the next update, and presumably negotiating important stuff such as potential vial research collaboration.
Medicine to 4 is also worth considering, since it would allow Taylor to produce those medical nanites that lost to the Soulgem Injector. Ofcourse, thats not necessarily urgent. Increasing backing slightly might be.
And dot 2 would NOT take all of Taylors time or be a fulltime job or anything. Gromweld made multiple posts (I quoted all several pages back) about how Taylor could cheat slightly when it comes to Backing due to basically having absurd multitasking capabilities given by SoPA.
Having Iris back and functioning as a SoPA relay, and having 8 MSD all working as relays too if necessary means this is even more true. Especially when it comes to Cauldron, where Gromweld stated that the first 3 dots would in many ways be doing jobs as field-agents in exchange for favors (presumably, credits like we got here, and possibly more purchase options).
I think 1 single dot of backing would be worth it at this juncture.
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