This is only true in the abstract. Alchemicals, and essence in general is... too random? I'm not sure how to word it. Much like with Coil predicting us, it's essentially rolling the encounter every time they try to make a prediction. That means said alchemical could, theoretically, crit-fail in the simulation and then roll straight 10s all the way down in reality. That means that should Contessa attempt to predict the path involving an alchemical she has to assume a certain level of success and failure in the dice. An assumption that will, by it's very nature, be inaccurate. Technically speaking, Contessa is actually in a much better position to predict EOA in any of the situations where we massively outclass the opposition by the simple expedient of assuming we will accomplish what we set out to do. Even then it's a crap shoot because Contessa relies very heavily on being accurate for long periods of time.
Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 23: We Wonder Where Who Wanders When Watchers Wane
- Thread starter Gromweld
- Start date
Err, I don't think the idea there was to say that Alexandria was a literal warstrider from exalted universe. More a point about the odd physiology of her body or something. Doubt Gromweld checked the specific rules when he made that comparison, and mostly just meant "something that can be repaired with omnitools". Regardless, it was well over a year ago, and Sakis dimension makes it a moot point anyway. Fixing Alexandria there would be far superiour way of going about it.
Anyway, night.
Kinruush
Who?
- Location
- USA
I think it has to do with how the Nowhereverse is inherently deterministic and Creation isn't. Anyone running on essence gets to make choices while we're all basically robots. beep boop
"Sir, do you classify as human?"
"Negative, I am a meat popsicle."
Kinruush
Who?
- Location
- USA
Nobody could figure out where to put it.
Well, it's not even that. You can to a certain extent predict the actions of a Creation person. Or rather, you can predict what they are going to attempt. After all, we didn't need to roll dice to see if we wanted to kill the fuck out of Jack Slash. But the results are in question. We could do any number of things and nowhereverse physics don't have that inherent randomness. If you want to do something then given 1000 identical copies of an event, the same result will always happen. In Creation physics you will end up with as many different permutations as there are possible non-repeating combinations of dice thrown over the entire length of the event. It's not exactly untenable for a precog to predict the results but one that relies so heavilly on the deterministic nature of Nowhereverse like Contessa and Coil simply can't properly predict us. Dinah on the other hand is probably the best one to do so because she is the opposite side of the precog spectrum.
Twei
I have a face!
- Location
- the land where they write things
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Apparently that doesn't stop her from hearing the death metal, poor girl. (Or whatever exact form of disruption she got when she looked at Weaver in the refugee camp way back when.)
Well yes, that is provided that Taylor is wearing her TIE with all the bells and whistles on.
RoninSword
Sky God
- Location
- Canada
I think the issue with Dinah was that she could clearly use her power even when it had AOE in it. But the future was not a fixed percentage, since AOE is not deterministic meat machine like everyone else. Dinah's power likely started to try and compensate, and then kept getting back data that it didn't know how to interpret correctly.
Since we have WoG that the shards will start to adapt to Essence (NEW DATA!), I would not be very shocked if Dinah's power only has minor hiccups with AOE and FPoP. It likely freaks out again each time a new Exalt shows up though.
Since we have WoG that the shards will start to adapt to Essence (NEW DATA!), I would not be very shocked if Dinah's power only has minor hiccups with AOE and FPoP. It likely freaks out again each time a new Exalt shows up though.
Moonsilver Caste business.
Yes it was.
Certainly, which is why it's not something to be deployed casually.
It's literally only there because there is a non-zero chance that talking might lead to Scion going off early, and will certainly result in Cauldron deploying terminal sanctions.
So we chose to take that hit for that reason.
Backing 5 does not necessarily translate to command.
Loom is undoubtedly Backing 5; she does not head any PRT department.
The fact that Chevy ended up Protecrotate boss in canon does not mean he will here; the circumstances are not the same, and there are good odds that anything that exposes Cauldron might splash on us as well.
Aisha picks up the gas charm and the Transmutational submod.
Resources 3 alloys for every human-sized organic thingy she hits with a burst; break it down in a chop shop, melt down the pieces and sell the metal ingots on the black market.
Enough to fund the black op of your choice.
Mature enough to fight a fuckmothering war.
If they'll let you fight Endbringers, you're as mature as you need to be IMO.
In Canada, you can enlist in the military Reserves at 16, and the UK allows you to join the military at 16 with parental consent.
In Iran, it's 15.
Saki/Sakura were both 17, and in need of emergency medical intervention.
Aisha is considered old enough to patrol alone by the PRT, and has surviving relatives and legal guardians; the PRT have literally zero legal standing in her case. No political capital required.
Vista is the only case where they get a say, because they were involved in placing her with adopted parents who are still new.
And we quite literally have Cauldron smoothing things behind the scenes.
This is not true.
Her innate programming forbade using viruses to infect the computers of Americans that didn't have a warrant out for their arrests, but she'd found a workaround. An Indonesian cartel had set up an extensive botnet, with soccer moms, the elderly, children and the uneducated unwittingly installing viruses onto their systems. These viruses, in turn, gave the cartel the ability to use the infected computers for other purposes. Sending out spam emails about pharmaceuticals or penis enlargement or drugs that gave superpowers wasn't worth much, but when they could send out millions or tens of millions of emails a day, it proved profitable.
Dragon had let the cartel extend their influence, then put in the word, offering to shut them down. She didn't, however, remove the viruses from the infected computers.
Dragon had let the cartel extend their influence, then put in the word, offering to shut them down. She didn't, however, remove the viruses from the infected computers.
The rules governing an AI like Dragon will be a lot more complex than just obey the law, of course, and some of them will be situational and/or discretionary; see when Dr Mother was negotiating with her about maybe allowing Birdcage access.
But there's a reason Tagg could not just order her to seize all the video coming out of Brockton Bay.
"This could have been avoided," the Director said. "On multiple levels."
"Most likely," Defiant replied. He stood at one end of the long table, Dragon beside him.
"If you would have cut off the feed, deleted the footage from phones, we would have had time to do damage control."
"We won't ignore people's first amendment rights," Defiant said.
"Most likely," Defiant replied. He stood at one end of the long table, Dragon beside him.
"If you would have cut off the feed, deleted the footage from phones, we would have had time to do damage control."
"We won't ignore people's first amendment rights," Defiant said.
Note that later, during the S9000 Arc, Dragon WAS deleting data off people's computers to suppress news of what they wer doing about the S9000, so it's not a hard prohibition.
Saint shook his head. "It is. Doesn't feel real."
"They're censoring it, you know… Of course you know."
"Mmm hmm. They'll stop as soon as everything goes through the proper channels. It was being censored so that the Triumvirate and unsanctioned major players could be kept out of the loop. Now they know."
"Any post, update or email that detailed anything about the attacks disappeared. Sites hacked, DDoSed, with data corrupted. You can't delete data, I know, but you can fuck it up sufficiently. Couldn't back anything up in a substantial way."
"Dragon's work," he said. He felt his pulse quicken a little at that.
"They're censoring it, you know… Of course you know."
"Mmm hmm. They'll stop as soon as everything goes through the proper channels. It was being censored so that the Triumvirate and unsanctioned major players could be kept out of the loop. Now they know."
"Any post, update or email that detailed anything about the attacks disappeared. Sites hacked, DDoSed, with data corrupted. You can't delete data, I know, but you can fuck it up sufficiently. Couldn't back anything up in a substantial way."
"Dragon's work," he said. He felt his pulse quicken a little at that.
And no, Richter did not make her to hack people's accounts and steal their assets.
That was the Robin Hood program. She was created to be his assistant.
Citation please.
Dragon's Interlude refers to what the Dragonslayers did as a violation, not rape.
She had been so humiliated that she had only reported the loss of one of the units.
They had violated her.
They had violated her.
You can feel violated if someone roots through your underwear drawer, or steals your car.
I am going to repeat this: Dragon has not asked for help with Saint.
She may not be able to ask for help with her shackles, and restrictions, but Saint is not protected the same way.
She hasn't.
Be careful about making decisions for someone else for their own good when they are perfectly capable of doing so themselves.
Assembly resources. Not personal resources.
We WILL give an accounting of how we use it.
And why.
Remember, we guide our Assembly; we don't rule it.
Diplomacy is only what he does.
I am pointing to who they ARE as people, and what drives them:
Hana had made the others swear a promise, to not speak of her gift. She knew the guerrilla fighters would recruit her, use her, if they knew. Whatever this power was that she had received, she didn't feel it was for that.
*SNIP*
She'd grown to love this country. Truly love it, for what it stood for. She'd had to fight to wear the flag as part of her costume. America wasn't perfect, but nothing touched by human hands could be. There was greed, corruption, selfishness, pettiness, hatred. But there were good things too. Freedoms, ideas, choices, hope and the possibility that anyone could be anything, here, if they were willing to strive for it. As she accepted her new country, she let herself make friends, boyfriends, let herself get close to her parents and their church. By the time she started college, her accent had all but disappeared, and she knew enough to at least pretend to know what others were talking about when they spoke of pop culture, music and television.
People were judgmental, she knew, and so she would never speak of what she had seen in that moment she received her gift.
Even among other faithful, she would be met with suspicion and scorn, were she to say she'd seen God, or one of His warrior angels, such as they existed beyond the scope of human understanding. That He had given her this ability so she could save herself. Others would offer different interpretations, argue that He had given such gifts to bad people, too, they would point to the science of it. Maybe some small part of her suspected these hypothetical individuals were right. Still, she preferred her faith to uncertainty. The notion that this thing she had seen was something other than a benign entity watching over humanity, that it might be malign, or even worse, that it existed with no conception of the effect it had on mankind? An elephant among gnats? It wasn't a comfortable thought.
*SNIP*
"I don't sleep," Hannah confessed. "Not really, since I got my powers."
"Oh? Me either."
Colin leaned back and rubbed his eyes with the heels of his hands, "I'd give my left foot for that little perk."
Hannah nodded. There were others like her? She asked the computer screen, "Do you remember?"
"Sorry? I don't understand," Dragon replied.
"Nevermind." If Dragon did remember, Hannah knew the answer to that question would have been different. Dragon was too smart to miss the connection.
*SNIP*
She'd grown to love this country. Truly love it, for what it stood for. She'd had to fight to wear the flag as part of her costume. America wasn't perfect, but nothing touched by human hands could be. There was greed, corruption, selfishness, pettiness, hatred. But there were good things too. Freedoms, ideas, choices, hope and the possibility that anyone could be anything, here, if they were willing to strive for it. As she accepted her new country, she let herself make friends, boyfriends, let herself get close to her parents and their church. By the time she started college, her accent had all but disappeared, and she knew enough to at least pretend to know what others were talking about when they spoke of pop culture, music and television.
People were judgmental, she knew, and so she would never speak of what she had seen in that moment she received her gift.
Even among other faithful, she would be met with suspicion and scorn, were she to say she'd seen God, or one of His warrior angels, such as they existed beyond the scope of human understanding. That He had given her this ability so she could save herself. Others would offer different interpretations, argue that He had given such gifts to bad people, too, they would point to the science of it. Maybe some small part of her suspected these hypothetical individuals were right. Still, she preferred her faith to uncertainty. The notion that this thing she had seen was something other than a benign entity watching over humanity, that it might be malign, or even worse, that it existed with no conception of the effect it had on mankind? An elephant among gnats? It wasn't a comfortable thought.
*SNIP*
"I don't sleep," Hannah confessed. "Not really, since I got my powers."
"Oh? Me either."
Colin leaned back and rubbed his eyes with the heels of his hands, "I'd give my left foot for that little perk."
Hannah nodded. There were others like her? She asked the computer screen, "Do you remember?"
"Sorry? I don't understand," Dragon replied.
"Nevermind." If Dragon did remember, Hannah knew the answer to that question would have been different. Dragon was too smart to miss the connection.
Then, shortly into his second century of service, Rishi retired his commission. Some believed he had simply proven his dominance on the battlefield and wished to move on to new challenges. They were mistaken, but the Archon did not bother to correct them. In truth, Rishi's victories had always left him feeling hollow, even those that pressed him to the limit of his skill and intellect. During his final decade as a general, he conferred often with the famed lector Jeruen. Jeruen counseled the troubled Exalt, explaining that his works were holy because the Machine God recognized the necessity that prompted them but profane in and of themselves. Ideally, Autochthon's world-body would operate in perfect clockwork unity, and the Eight Nations would integrate harmoniously with the Great Maker and with one another.
Rishi found his first peace in these notions and put aside soldiering to broaden his horizons. He honed his rhetoric while studying the laws of Yugash and the other nations. Soon, he was counted an honorary plutarch and, shortly after that, realized that he would accomplish little with his oratory unless he also became conversant in politics.
In his four centuries of service to Yugash, Fair-Spoken Rishi has released hundreds of memorandums, essays and treatises on the nature of ideal law and its possible enforcement. Many infer pacifist or even anti-Yugash leanings from Rishi's writings, though he always stops well short of actually criticizing his government or any of its policies. Instead, Rishi prefers to present scenarios set in deliberate but nonspecific contrast to highprofile laws or current events. Those who speak out against the Exalt soon discover that he has many friends in unexpected places. Rishi spends his political capital carefully but effectively, and he will not allow himself be pushed around or criticized by young jingoists.
Rishi found his first peace in these notions and put aside soldiering to broaden his horizons. He honed his rhetoric while studying the laws of Yugash and the other nations. Soon, he was counted an honorary plutarch and, shortly after that, realized that he would accomplish little with his oratory unless he also became conversant in politics.
In his four centuries of service to Yugash, Fair-Spoken Rishi has released hundreds of memorandums, essays and treatises on the nature of ideal law and its possible enforcement. Many infer pacifist or even anti-Yugash leanings from Rishi's writings, though he always stops well short of actually criticizing his government or any of its policies. Instead, Rishi prefers to present scenarios set in deliberate but nonspecific contrast to highprofile laws or current events. Those who speak out against the Exalt soon discover that he has many friends in unexpected places. Rishi spends his political capital carefully but effectively, and he will not allow himself be pushed around or criticized by young jingoists.
Both recognize the current system is imperfect, but work within it anyway.
Both keep most of what they believe secret; Hana's faith, and Rishi's budding pacifism.
Both are very good with people.
Chevalier is more the diplomat type, actually. Surprising enough, given how he started out.
It's why I maintain that Sophia Hess was failed by the Wards program; if you look at the Wards scene in Chevy's Interlude, she looks a lot like some of that first team in their distrust and edginess.
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Sure, but instead of finding ways to avoid the things that trigger his compulsions, or mitigating the harm he might cause to others, Accord chooses to live as a violent crime boss. His shard is not forcing him to do that. If Accord honestly gave a damn about anyone else's well being he'd devote his energies to managing his mental state rather than building and managing a criminal empire. Accord's legitimately a horrible person. The fact that his shard is affecting him mentally in an overt fashion makes him more horrible than he might be otherwise, but it's starting from a base-line of horrible and working from there.
For comparison, look at Bruce Banner. His powers can possibly put the people around him at risk of injury or even death, so what does he do? He isolates himself. He explores method after method of controlling his rage and dealing with his psychological issues. He tries to find a way to rid himself of his powers. He lives as a vagrant rather than risk harming people. Bruce does everything he can to try and keep people safe from himself. Accord spends his time murdering people and indulging in slave-trading.
Giving Accord a soul will give him the opportunity to manage his shard's influence. It will do nothing to curb his arrogance, self-centeredness, and his contempt for other people. More steps have to be taken to make him a decent human being.
I am looking at the Soulsteel writeup, and nowhere does it say anything about arresting people for shit they might do.
Monitor, watch, but even Autochtonia requires that the person be guilty, or in the process of committing the crime you are nabbing them for.
EDIT
And almost as importantly, Earth Bet is not Autochtonia.
We don't have the same wide remit an Alchemical would get in Autoland.
I keep pointing out how unintended consequences are a thing for Exalted.
Furthermore, we guide and manage the Assembly, we don't rule it; we don't give orders outside of combat situations.
That's part of the reason why we've tended towards people who will at least give us a listen.
Do not assume that you can have other people do shit with impunity.
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RoninSword
Sky God
- Location
- Canada
But does an Ori really need to be a decent human being?
No. No Alchemical does.
It does help, though.
Silently Watches
Professional Stalker
- Location
- Right behind you
An Ori candidate (or any candidate) needs to be interesting and sympathetic enough for us to vote to see more of him. Some of us very much think Accord fits neither of those criteria.
einargs
Verified Spiller of the Egg Yolk
- Location
- The Egg Yolk, Outer Layer
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Hm. So I feel like Miss Militia for Jade is a fairly sensible decision. Her power seems like it could be really, really powerful and versatile once Autochthon gets done with it, and her attitude (refugee, American Dream, etc.) should work with the whole "Champion of the People" thing. (NOTE: I honestly don't know that much about the Jade caste, so I'd appreciate other people chiming in on that.)
Also, I feel like A: the possibility of getting Vista as a Jade has passed us by, and B: I don't really want us to have to deal with the problems inherent with alchemizing a 12 year-old who has actual parents now. I mean, what kind of parent is going to let their kid do that? Not a good one.
I also question the wisdom of recruiting another minor. I mean, we did get a warning from the PRT about doing that again, right? Or am I mis-remembering...
Also, I feel like A: the possibility of getting Vista as a Jade has passed us by, and B: I don't really want us to have to deal with the problems inherent with alchemizing a 12 year-old who has actual parents now. I mean, what kind of parent is going to let their kid do that? Not a good one.
I also question the wisdom of recruiting another minor. I mean, we did get a warning from the PRT about doing that again, right? Or am I mis-remembering...
Not...really. RCB's body double tried to browbeat us into agreeing to not Exalting any more Wards, but she didn't have any real success in that endeavor.
Twei
I have a face!
- Location
- the land where they write things
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I also question the wisdom of recruiting another minor. I mean, we did get a warning from the PRT about doing that again, right? Or am I mis-remembering...
Something like that.
Still, the principle is sound, even if we don't like who it's coming from. Which is another reason why Mom Militia is rising on my list to potentially topple Sista Vista.
I mean, I forget how well Vista fits Jade, but I'm pretty sure MM fits Jade pretty well. And her shardcharm would apparently go in very interesting directions.
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I'm not convinced more guns is what we need out of a shard charm.
Twei
I have a face!
- Location
- the land where they write things
- Pronouns
- They/Them
YOu're not wrong, but I'm told that Exalt!MM could make more than just weapons... hang on, where is that WoG list someone compiled on the subject... brb searching
We got the exact same tenor of warning we got before Exalting Prayer.
Pay it no mind.
Because it was the best of his options after he got tossed in jail for embezzling money he was going to use to start improving things.
This is Earth Bet.
Every four months, kaiju kill a fuckton of people.
Those with the perception to look can see the world is coming to a breakpoint in the next couple decades at most.
Sticking his head in the sand does neither him or anyone else any good.
Because he can afford to.
Accord cannot; Worm is a much less forgiving place than Marvel Earth.
What is the plan to solve world hunger?
Do remember that dude was working for the PRT economic crimes division; he had no particular desire to rule or take personal charge of anything.
He mailed his plans to multiple national governments for free.
He was entirely happy to work as an unpaid contractor for Cauldron, even, because someone was doing something.
I mean, I'm not voting Accord for Ori, but you are doing him a disservice in his characterization.
Heresy!
We always need more guns.
More seriously, remember when I called it the Green Lantern shard?
I suspect a jailbroken version won't be restricted to just weapons.
Most to be addressed in my Grand Theory on Why Becky Is Awesome at a later date. In brief: power corrupts, true but not complete, yes, yes, good plan, I ship it, I Am Become Destroyer of Worlds, two hammers better than one, bigger hammer is sturdy hammer, eh, oops, too late, heresy, and neither older-than-they-look nor younger-than-they-look disqualify a mahou shoujo. I think that should address everyone's concerns.
On Accord: I would support embarking on an escalating series of measures to offer him reprieve from his shard compulsions potentially including any of Safe Space sequestration, soulgem implantation, and SPIKE. But that really should come before any pursuit of Exaltation, and in some cases is directly opposed to it. After all - Exaltation doesn't exactly make the shard go away.
?: "Behold the mighty Thinker 12!"
Fortuna: "...ow."
Iris: [INDIFFERENCE][CONFIDENCE]
...
Why do people keep saying things like this in the same thread where we're intell... deliberately planning the Assembly's actions? Essence dramatically changes what is and is not possible, but it doesn't Shut Down Thinking Forever. Shards are literally built to gather data and adapt to evolving circumstances, and there's plenty of precedent in Exalted for outright divination, let alone super-powered extrapolation. Even if it's merely a tight probabilistic model, that's a lot of power. Our Black Swan boat sailed a long time ago.
That would be very cool indeed and if Exalted rules are anything to go by any products commensurate with the current power level would take many, many seasons - Crafting non-mundane equipment is slow. Linear power increase requires exponential time investment. Is this something that will be valuable in-story, or would it just make for one hell of an Epilogue? I trust Grom not to make things boring, but if the players choose a suboptimal strat there's only so much one can/should do.
EDIT: to further drive the point, I believe there's WoGrom that Equipment v. Artifacts is one of the key places Worm has the decisive power advantage over Exalted. The same level of dots is certainly easier to acquire with a lab than a factory-cathedral. That doesn't mean that full-on magitech wouldn't be useful, but I expect it to sacrifice many of Tinkers' comparative advantages in the process.
This was my impression as well, with the above caveat of Artifact work being slow. The Safe Space could speed things up of course, but being a Case-53 and all there's a real chance of things going catastrophically wrong. I'd eyeball it at maybe 10, maybe 20% - is anyone comfortable with betting a Triumvir's life on that?
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Twei
I have a face!
- Location
- the land where they write things
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Aaand I didn't find that WoG list. Blah. Still, Uju is correct from what I remember. MM is good.Heresy!
We always need more guns.
More seriously, remember when I called it the Green Lantern shard?
I suspect a jailbroken version won't be restricted to just weapons.
The only real problem is that lots of people like Jade Vista (myself included), which leaves MM as an Ori. And MM doesn't fit quite as well as an Ori, I think? Like, obviously no one's Accord-tier, and she does directly compare to that one canon Ori, but MM is certainly more Hero of the People than Brilliant Inspiring Crusader person or whatever an Ori is. Chevalier would probably fit the profile best on that particular version of Ori, though Armsy might do too.
tl;dr: if we want ori MM we probably should do it before jade vista. since the requirements tighten with each exaltation, the perfect fits should come last.
EDIT: also weren't we having a vote or something and not just discussing Exalts all day???
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