Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 18: Ravaging Rapscallions Rapidly Regret Regular Rampages
- Thread starter Gromweld
- Start date
Scify
It always starts with a lighthouse.
Cite for this, please? I'm relatively certain her range isn't "any contiguous area without living beings."
The big Scionfight. They're on an uninhabited alternate Earth and she compressed entire continents.
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
I find this statement curious given that you didn't include anything from the Personal Gravity Manipulation Apparatus tree in that charm set you just posted. Or the Perfect Dodge tree. Vista is good but she becomes truly Glorious Bullshit when you add that stuff. Very powerful synergy there, would be a damn shame not to make use of it.
Speaking of that loadout.
TFTOI and OGD are good charms, and might have some synergy with Vista's power to let her use them over great distances. Two problems though: one, since Earth-Bet is still operating on Nowhere physics that means that we can't use Exalted's mass combat rules just yet (which basically lets you "wear" your army); two, this is sort of cutting into Taylor's turf a bit too much and, given (1), I'd much rather hold out for the vats so that we can do custom variants that play off of Taylor's strengths.
Programmed Catechism Rebuttal: Vista is going to have massive social pools that outclass basically everyone on Earth-Bet, so a perfect social defense really isn't going to be necessary. Secondly, PCR uses Autochthonian dogma to perform the defense which means we have to deal with values dissonance, not to mention that it has strong odds of adding fuel to the Pod People conspiracy theory.
Mobile Sensory Drone: Meh. We have Weaver already, so this is slightly redundant. The fact that the Drones have an arcane link to the alchemical might mean that Vista could use her power through them (n which case the charm would be incredibly useful), but that's really only something that Grom could answer.
Secondary Sensory Upgrades: Given that Jade!Vista would be first and foremost our social monkey and secondly as combat/logistics support...I'm not sure why giving her super smell and hearing would be an efficient use of precious charm space.
Fourth Stamina Augmentation: This is one of those rare instances where I think that the Second Stamina Augmentation might be more useful. Why? Resistance rolls. +1B/+0.5L soak is nice and all, but Vista's game revolves around not being hit. The obvious counter to that is AOEs, meaning Environmental Hazards. 2nd Stam Aug gives her the option to spend motes to insure she makes the Stam + Resist roll to knock the damage down a tier (or two, if she rolls high enough). Very niche, but very powerful.
Long way away, and keeping in mind that we probably COULD use the army wearing rules if a mass combat charm was in effect.
Also Taylor is most certainly unable to reach the necessary levels of Charisma needed to qualify for the charms(Cha 7!) without major modifications.
Probably could drop that, but I'm thinking of using it to parry normally unblockable social attacks, like Heartbreaker, Canary, etc. Might not be applicable though.
Well, it's a rather plausible suspicion, and she has a power which would benefit hugely from being able to use it remotely. Additioonally, we cannot get Unlimited Drones except by including it at chargen, and given the small number of drones(but much greater range), it'd be a high quality supplement to our own abilities, which reinforce her relationship to us.
Extending sensory coverage to avoid facing attacks she is unaware of, while also massively expanding information gathering capabilities collecting feedback from the population, heading off things like the Nine being in town for a whole week without us knowing(if we had Secondary Sensory Upgrades we'd have detected Behemoth and the Nine as they were inbound). Sure we have parahuman information gathering, but they're prone to shutting down in the presence of Exalted activity.
Here, we have the ability to gather detailed information from miles around, using a single charm that she already qualifies for by other means. AND further amplified by her power(since the massive range of sense is further augmented by space warps if even greater range is desired.
And it also stacks with the drones, providing great synergy just by parking one drone in the upper atmosphere with Gust to monitor the situation.
Well my thought was the opposite, since she is the space warper, the last thing you want to use is AoEs she can move on top of you. Still, I picked it more by rote than anything else.
sainen
Elder Lich
the way I see it Jade!Vista has 4 potential combat styles 2 CC and 2 ranged.
1.Long range artillery using Spacewarping to guide otherwise impossible trick shots
2.Ranged Skirmisher using Spacewarping for hit and runs
3.Melee/MA Skirmisher utilizing her Spacewarping power as a form of Ground contractor or flash step so she can get in and out without taking hits
4.Melee/MA tank using Spacewarping so that she can use defend other to protect her allies so long as they're on the same battle field
now I know there's a lot of overlap with the 4 styles, hell depending on her shard charm we could end up with only 2 styles(CC or Ranged), but I split them that way because you don't necessarily want the same charms for each of them.
1.Long range artillery using Spacewarping to guide otherwise impossible trick shots
2.Ranged Skirmisher using Spacewarping for hit and runs
3.Melee/MA Skirmisher utilizing her Spacewarping power as a form of Ground contractor or flash step so she can get in and out without taking hits
4.Melee/MA tank using Spacewarping so that she can use defend other to protect her allies so long as they're on the same battle field
now I know there's a lot of overlap with the 4 styles, hell depending on her shard charm we could end up with only 2 styles(CC or Ranged), but I split them that way because you don't necessarily want the same charms for each of them.
sainen
Elder Lich
fair enough, though I don't like not having the sort of power that comes with specializing at least a little bit.
Alchemicals in an Assembly tend to specialize anyway. We have FPoP for smashy power, so when we really need something smashed, we get her. In Missy's case, having TMAM is equivalent to a series of medium to high power Brute and Blaster ratings, more than enough to fight most opponents that might be expected to be encountered. If Programmed Catechism Rebuttal was dropped I'd probably pick up a First Dex Augmentation, which improves basically all aspects of combat, at whatever range and couples strongly to having built in Daiklaves, artifact armors AND essence cannons.
In her case I picked up the War charms because surprisingly, it's quite efficient to double up on War charms and Charisma social charms, and also compounds the Best Little Sister thing we have going on by supporting us in our role.
In her case I picked up the War charms because surprisingly, it's quite efficient to double up on War charms and Charisma social charms, and also compounds the Best Little Sister thing we have going on by supporting us in our role.
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While generally true, that is because Alchemicals usually have ready and unfettered access to a Vat Complex to reconfigure for different tasks in a matter of hours. That's not likely to be true for us and our Assembly.
Mmm, but stranded away from support, it's less specializing in the classic Alchemical sense, and more ensuring we have a good spread of capabilities. The big load of charm installation costs come from their Augmentation requirements, which is a natural push to specialize towards about 3 stat focuses per character, taking into account the automatic installations of Stamina Augmentation for Industrial Survival Frame and Integrated Artifact Transformer/Husk Shaping Apparatus.
Marrow is basically our All In option for high impact damage, so for others, we only need them to fight as well as a good cape(especially considering Taylor herself has zero combat charms), then focus on synergy with their power and personality to try and cover our needs.
A Charisma face combines well with War charms as they are very Charisma intensive. It also combines well with Jade thematics, as they are visually appealing to Earth Bet
A battlefield reshaping power combines well with War charms.
A space altering power combines well with enhanced senses, as the power means that classic accuracy charms and dodge charms are rendered obsolete, as long as you can reliably react to surprises and detect all possible threats, this also combines well with War charms, which also use Perception.
Then to throw on basic combat capabilities with artifact weapons and armor(internalized so they cannot suffer from asset denial), and a First Dexterity Augmentation.
That was the design process basically.
Marrow is basically our All In option for high impact damage, so for others, we only need them to fight as well as a good cape(especially considering Taylor herself has zero combat charms), then focus on synergy with their power and personality to try and cover our needs.
A Charisma face combines well with War charms as they are very Charisma intensive. It also combines well with Jade thematics, as they are visually appealing to Earth Bet
A battlefield reshaping power combines well with War charms.
A space altering power combines well with enhanced senses, as the power means that classic accuracy charms and dodge charms are rendered obsolete, as long as you can reliably react to surprises and detect all possible threats, this also combines well with War charms, which also use Perception.
Then to throw on basic combat capabilities with artifact weapons and armor(internalized so they cannot suffer from asset denial), and a First Dexterity Augmentation.
That was the design process basically.
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
Which is why I suggested custom charms that would give us similar results but would play off of Taylor's traits and theme. So, for example, instead of focusing around the Alchemical physically deflecting attacks (and building off Charisma, because you're standing there looking heroic) you have a custom charm that has Taylor accurately predicting where the enemy will attack and relaying that information to the troops so that they can avoid the attack themselves (thus building off Intelligence or Perception).
The nature of cape based combat means that we're going to want the open terrain variant of the Tunnel Fighting charm, so it's not like we won't be dipping into custom charms anyway.
Remember that anything on Earth-Bet that bypasses our MDVs or we can't use WP to ignore counts as Shaping.
That's not an argument for Vista having drones, that's an argument for anyone in our Assembly having drones. It also serves as an argument for prioritizing research into producing relay bugs for Taylor.
You could apply this very same argument to Starmetal!Lisa without really having to chance much, and it'd probably be more useful on her anyway because of how well her power lets her process all that extra data.
The way you hit someone that keeps on dodging your attacks is to use AOEs and other effects that render the attack undodgeable. The 2nd Stam Aug would be a pretty nice halfway point between natural defenses and a perfect dodge in terms of mote economy.
To go back to your charm wishlist, you're forgetting that since Vista's primary role is to be a Charisma-based social monkey she's going to be coming out of the Cradle with All The Charms that help her fill that role. To borrow from my own wishlist, that's:
1st/2nd Charisma Augmentation - E1, CHR 1 [1m]
Patriotism-Provoking Display - E2, CHR 3, CHR 4 for submodules [1m]
Perfected Union Patterning - E2, CHR 3 [1m]
Motivational Vocoder - E3, CHR 5 [1m]
Radiant Iconography Array - E3, APP 2, MANIP 3 for submodule [0m]
Pattern Facilitation Module - E3, CHR 4 [1m]
Hierarchical Dogma Lock - E1, INT 3 [0m]
Emotive Aesthetics of the Body Electric - E3, APP 4, PERCEP 3 for submodule [1m]
She's probably going to get Unobtrusive Repartee Baffles (E2, MNP 2 [2m]) since not having people realize you're using bullshit magic on them really helps make PR simpler.
She also might end up with Conceptual Entropy Module and Agenda Recalibration Protocols (E3, MNP 4 & 5 respectively, [1m] each) since she's going to have high Manipulation anyway due to Autochthon giving her the Happy Fun Spike no matter what we want.
We're actually on a bit of a strict budget, so non-essential charms might have to fall by the wayside.
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sainen
Elder Lich
probably as that's thematically appropriate for a space warping power, though what I'd like to see is it used as a perfect parry by having it go return to sender.
- Location
- The end of all things
Among other horrors, Vista can burn people and buildings like ants under a magnifying glass. This may come up in the near future for some strange and terrifying reason.
sainen
Elder Lich
pair her with that terrorist Phir Sē that we don't know about in canon and his Doom beam wont take days to charge
So, the good guys* would have the ants and the magnifying glass?
* YMMV
Gromweld
Learning By Mistake
Yes, custom charms will be allowed but we'll need to keep them close to canon charms of other Exalts, with appropriate changes to fit Alchemical themes. Whole-cloth new charms (and artifacts) are less likely, as I want to avoid new powers/artifacts that are just straight fixes to our problems; if a new charm/artifact is approved, it'll be because it will require creativity and innovation to properly utilize.Question: are personalized / custom charms at the table?
Iris of Innovation, may have a few ideas.
Worth noting is that Marrow is the upper-tier in terms of starting loadout, due to her age and long tenure as as combat-heavy superhero. On the low end, we have Taylor: young, with only about an effective year of "combat" experience against the Trio. Exalting someone like Chevalier, Miss Militia, or Armsmaster would yield similar results as Marrow, while Exalting someone younger would yield similar results as Taylor. Converting someone young with combat experience (Missy, Weld, or Kinzey) or older with less combat experience (Danny) would get the middle-ground.
Remember that we have a bit of control regarding a new Assembly-member's starting loadout, as we are subtly communicating to Autobot what role each new Exalt will be playing in our Assembly. As a result, we could make Vista another combat wombat like Marrow, but that would mean her Attribute and Charm loadout would be focused towards physical combat instead of being our Social powerhouse. Conversely, if we tell Autobot to make Missy our Moe-Bot, her Attribute and Charm loadout will be focused on Socials before dipping into the physical combat pools.
It's not Missy specifically that will be getting the Happy Fun Spike, but rather whomever we choose to be our Social powerhouse. However, it is worth keeping in mind that Missy and other young Exalt candidates will have fewer Charm slots than someone older like Miss Militia or Armsmaster so our options will be further limited.
Shard Charms will, right out of the gate, be capable of nearly everything they were before conversion. Sub-modules are reserved for adding on more Exalted-specific abilities and unlocking more of the Shard's true purpose/capabilities.
From my reading of Vista's canon powers, this is not possible with her default abilities - if it was, her "continent compacting" trick would have caused people using her shortcut to melt from being hit by all the compressed light/heat.
That's in canon.
You are not accounting for the power-amplification effects of IEU.
All of these things step on Taylor's thematics.
Besides, she gets one familiar.
Hmm.
You miss the fact that IEU amplifies Vista's power, making it a necessary part of her build.
Both Optical Enhancement and SSU are unnecessary when Vista's power + ASP combine.
If I had to pick 18 charms(going with Grom's comments), I would go with:
LIST
2nd Int Augmentation
3rd Dexterity Augmentation
4th Stamina Augmentation
4th Charisma Augmentation x2
Integrated Artifact Transmogrifier
Husk Sculpting Apparatus.
Aura-Dampening Component
Industrial Survival Frame
Dynamic Reaction Enhancement System
Incomparable Efficiency Upgrade
Patriotism Provoking Display
Perfected Union Patterning
Synergy Promoting Upgrade
Semiotic Flare Projector
Casualty Minimizing Equations
Perfected Lotus Matrix: Overwhelming Ruinous Ordinance Style to the Form(allows parrying with Essence pulse cannon)
Anticipatory Simulation Processor
Trans Multimodal Artifact Matrix: Essence Pulse Cannon, Superheavy Plate, Infinite Resplendence Amulet(3 or 4 dot version), hearthstone bracers, custom artifact
PANOPLY
Optical Enhancement
Light Interceptor Barrier
Alloyed Reinforcement of Flesh
NOTE
As a Jade Alchemical, she can benefit from having all her shit made from yellow jade, which should slash her attunement costs.
The Jade version of the Infinite Resplendence Amulet gives her +3 relays, which improves her ability to coordinate War actions.
I would also consider dropping 3rd Dexterity Aug for Light Interceptor Barrier; that +3 DV cover bonus and once- a- scene perfect is rather interesting.
Or at least, it would be one of the first things on her buy list after OGD.
I know.
I expect her familiar will be linked to her TMAM.
And I suspect her Essence pulse cannon should be a variant version anyway; as in, not requiring a physical transformation to fire.
Think this
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I think it depends on the specific geometries used.
For continent compacting, Vista isn't changing the density of lines that lead to the sun. The continent-that-is-the-size-of-a-room has as many lines to the sun as the room does.
For frying someone with light, you'd simply have to add lines that lead from where they are to the sun. It's the exact same mechanism as a magnifying glass, except the optics are done by warping space.
- Location
- NM
I don't know jack about Exalted, but I want to see a combat Vista. Spacial manipulation combines extremely well with offensive powers. I'm just imaging a boxer punching people from 100+ feet away, while running away with his back turned. And then scaled up to exalted combat levels of power. Also, the punches coming from all angles. Not sure if canon/exalted Vista could pull that off, but it'd be fun to see.
Hmm.
So Vista would be somewhere in the region of 16-18 charm slots.
Aisha is kinda fuzzy; do the conditions of her home life count as combat?
Because she would rank up there with Vista if so.
Uh.
I was under the impression the social Charms would be spread out a bit.
This significantly narrows the list of possible candidates for Moe-bot.
I suspect intent and control is at least part of why this was so.
I mean, she could compact space and people remained able to breathe after all.
And I believe it is canon that her control of her power kept improving with time.
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Gromweld
Learning By Mistake
Aisha's home life was pretty consistently traumatic and filled with violence, so she'd be up there with Missy.
The Moe-bot doesn't need to be a Jade, though. Moe-bot!Starmetal would be amusing, and I can think of a few people that could pull that off. In the end, however, the first priority should always be to ensure that the candidate has the personality/willpower to catalyze one of the remaining Alchemical castes - skills and charms can be tweaked by Autobot as needed to fit the role that Taylor wants them to play in the Assembly. Though the more you tweak, the more POD PEOPLE accusations will ring true.
People didn't spend much time in the compacted space, from what I recall, but regardless I need to worry about balance issues beyond just normal narrative issues; Vista's power is already incredible, it doesn't need Surprise Doom Lasers on top of that.
- Location
- Oklahoma
I have never been in a situation where things would not be improved by Surprise Doom Lasers.