Presumably there was more to it than that if it was enough to Trigger her. But yes that would kind of be the point of therapy, agreed. I kind of phrased that badly.
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Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 18: Ravaging Rapscallions Rapidly Regret Regular Rampages
- Thread starter Gromweld
- Start date
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Who says we need to brainwash her when we could stroke her ego and appeal to her vanity and pride about her "genius" and how famous she'll be when her bombs are used to stop the Endbringers? For that matter what about Shatterbird? She's the world's only macrokinetic manipulator besides Leviathan and if we can't rehabilitate her we could always have an IEU-enhanced Maestro take over her like in Canon.
The PRT's default response is not to kill, but to suborn parahumans.
Look at the fate of Bakuda in canon; despite her massive death toll, she still got sent to the Cage instead of shot in an alleyway.
I suspect it might be easier than you think.
Especially for capes that have utility.
Note that even Bezalel was strongarmed into the PRT after one of his bots killed a Ward.
The sad fact is that
1)Taylor doesn't know that IC.
2) She just doesn't have enough utility to get anyone to go to bat for her.
3) There is no way to disarm her.
The truth of the matter is that if you kill Jack off, a good lawyer could get her off by claiming he was a Master/Thinker based on circumstantial evidence alone.
Introduce enough doubt to spare her a death penalty, or the cage; based on Cenotaph's case, Thinker manipulation is apparently a legal claim of diminished responsibility.
Unfortunately, the issue is surviving to get to said lawyer.
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- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
That's because they were afraid of her failsafe's AND her superbomb so she didn't get a kill order and when she was captured there was no need to issue one.
Shatterbird is too dangerous.
You can't disarm her, and in a fit of pique she could kill several thousand people.
Even a boosted Maestro could only hold her so long.
She's one of those I'd be certain would be killed outhand, besides Jack and Crawler.
Also Siberian, because cannibal that killed Hero = impossible sell.
That's my point.
Once failsafes were disabled, there was nothing stopping her from falling down a set of stairs onto several hundred bullets coincidentally arranged pointy end up.
And noone would have gone to bat for her, from the ABB or in Brockton Bay.
Yet, she made it to the Cage.
That suggests a very strong sense of mission in the PRT.
Brainwashing, therapy and diplomacy only differs by degree, consent and intent anyway. All the Spike adds is speed, and the ability to take consent out of the picture if you wanted. With consent it's rapid therapy. Used on a psychopath who's incapable of consent, it's resocialization.
Note that it's possible to simply overcome the alterations with effort. Against a strongly opposed will, you need to erode their willpower first, just like with every form of brainwashing, or it'd never last.
Note that it's possible to simply overcome the alterations with effort. Against a strongly opposed will, you need to erode their willpower first, just like with every form of brainwashing, or it'd never last.
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- Location
- West Michigan
Optimistically...
Jack = Summary execution
Crawler = Fight Endbringers for us and we'll let you live
Bakuda = POS; make Endbringer bombs for us and we'll let you live
Manton = If POS use doesn't alter Siberian's appearance, take DNA samples and brain scans and clone a new Manton
Bonesaw = Probationary Ward status after POS and Wyld treatment
Hatchet Face = Summary execution (DNA samples and brain scan for later cloning)
Burnscar = POS to cure the pyromania; execution if that doesn't work
Shatterbird = POS to cure obsession with Jack, then probationary Protectorate
Mannequin = Summary execution (DNA samples and brain scan for later cloning)
Ignoring Bezalel and anyone who wasn't in the Nine before two weeks ago, that's 3-5 executions, 1 bargain, 3-5 POS treatments, and 2-3 "Let's clone a new one later."
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Just a note I wanted to put in about the STOP SCENE thing;
It might be incredibly tempting to Convert people in that situation as a lifesaving measure, but don't forget the criteria for exaltation, and the needs of the Circle. If we save someone who doesn't fit the mold, we significantly reduce our potential ability. Also, a person who might be saved might not be a good option even if they're qualified to exalt.
It might be incredibly tempting to Convert people in that situation as a lifesaving measure, but don't forget the criteria for exaltation, and the needs of the Circle. If we save someone who doesn't fit the mold, we significantly reduce our potential ability. Also, a person who might be saved might not be a good option even if they're qualified to exalt.
I would like to add Siberian to the summary executions list, otherwise I more or less agree.
Chances this will happen this way - <1%, at best, I'd say.
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
Conversations
"Ah, you're here."
The man in the bloody vest raises a hand to wave the new arrival into the room before wearily retreating it back to the armrest of the chair. Bloodstains are everywhere in the decrepit room - splatters on the floor, on the walls, on the furniture, as well as on the man with the bloody vest although, strangely enough, not on his hands. As the new arrival makes her way into the room she notes all these details, and how the bloodstains on the vest are fresher than the rest.
"Where is she?"
"Straight to business? No time for smalltalk?"
"Where. Is. She."
Although he can't see it, her stare is cold, merciless. Nevertheless his body gives a slight, involuntary twitch of fear, as if the very marrow of his bones remembers...he shoves the memory aside.
Best not to dwell on it.
"Exactly where I promised she'd be. Unfortunately she might not be in the same condition I found her in, but I'm sure that friend of yours can fix her up just fine...oh, except that she's a little bit busy right at the moment, isn't she? Might not make it in time. Such a shame."
"Or I could get the one who put her in that state in the first place to fix her up instead. She's been surprisingly receptive towards the idea of making amends. Actually, I'm sure she's already gotten started. She did, after all, lead us right to her."
"You're lying!" His face contorts into a snarl of rage but it's weak. Half-hearted. It quickly subsides back to its original blank slate. "If you already knew, why ask? Why the pretense?
"Upset that you couldn't get the last laugh? Such a shame."
"I can't help it - it's my nature. Sill, I'm not sure I believe you."
"Believe me. Or don't. I don't particularly care either way."
The man in the bloody vest turns his head to look at her directly. His eyes are empty, hollow, except for a slight glimmer of pain as he evaluates his guest. She returns his gaze, clearly unimpressed.
"You know, this conversation isn't going quite the way I imagined it would."
"No, I imagine it isn't."
"I thought that you were just another one of the crazy ones. Hearing voices. On a mission from God or whatever to change the world. Not very interesting. Boring, even."
"Except?"
"Except that some people started taking you seriously. Some people actually believed that maybe you could change the world for the better. You gave them hope."
"And that was just something you couldn't abide."
"No. We have three vengeful Gods ravaging some unlucky city every couple of months. The idea that things could get better is a cruel joke."
"And so you made it your mission to enlighten everyone. Make sure nobody missed out on the punchline."
"Yeah."
"Not quite so funny now that the joke's on you?"
"No." A wet cough interrupts him as he takes a raspy breath. A new stain on his bloody vest. "No it isn't."
"So what changed?"
"I saw it. HIM. In all his majesty."
"You saw barely a glimmer."
"You're lying."
This time without emotion. Drained of energy.
"Again, whether you believe or not is up to you. I think you know the truth."
"..."
"..."
"You're going to do it, aren't you. You're actually going to do it."
"That's the plan."
"Ha!"
It's the first feeling of genuine amusement he's felt in months. Years, even.
"Hmm?"
"Just...it'd be so funny if you actually pulled it off. Brought him here despite..."
He tries to wave his arm. Fails. Can't muster the energy.
"Despite all this?"
"Yeah."
"And that's why I'll be able to do it."
"Huh?"
"Because, despite everything, all the terrible things the world kept throwing at me...I endured."
"..."
The man in the bloody vest stares down at his hands. When had they started shaking? He doesn't know. Hesitantly he pulls the small switchblade out of his pocket, holds it in trembling fingers. She stares at him with emotionless eyes, but does nothing.
One last time.
He cuts.
"Ah, you're here."
The man in the bloody vest raises a hand to wave the new arrival into the room before wearily retreating it back to the armrest of the chair. Bloodstains are everywhere in the decrepit room - splatters on the floor, on the walls, on the furniture, as well as on the man with the bloody vest although, strangely enough, not on his hands. As the new arrival makes her way into the room she notes all these details, and how the bloodstains on the vest are fresher than the rest.
"Where is she?"
"Straight to business? No time for smalltalk?"
"Where. Is. She."
Although he can't see it, her stare is cold, merciless. Nevertheless his body gives a slight, involuntary twitch of fear, as if the very marrow of his bones remembers...he shoves the memory aside.
Best not to dwell on it.
"Exactly where I promised she'd be. Unfortunately she might not be in the same condition I found her in, but I'm sure that friend of yours can fix her up just fine...oh, except that she's a little bit busy right at the moment, isn't she? Might not make it in time. Such a shame."
"Or I could get the one who put her in that state in the first place to fix her up instead. She's been surprisingly receptive towards the idea of making amends. Actually, I'm sure she's already gotten started. She did, after all, lead us right to her."
"You're lying!" His face contorts into a snarl of rage but it's weak. Half-hearted. It quickly subsides back to its original blank slate. "If you already knew, why ask? Why the pretense?
"Upset that you couldn't get the last laugh? Such a shame."
"I can't help it - it's my nature. Sill, I'm not sure I believe you."
"Believe me. Or don't. I don't particularly care either way."
The man in the bloody vest turns his head to look at her directly. His eyes are empty, hollow, except for a slight glimmer of pain as he evaluates his guest. She returns his gaze, clearly unimpressed.
"You know, this conversation isn't going quite the way I imagined it would."
"No, I imagine it isn't."
"I thought that you were just another one of the crazy ones. Hearing voices. On a mission from God or whatever to change the world. Not very interesting. Boring, even."
"Except?"
"Except that some people started taking you seriously. Some people actually believed that maybe you could change the world for the better. You gave them hope."
"And that was just something you couldn't abide."
"No. We have three vengeful Gods ravaging some unlucky city every couple of months. The idea that things could get better is a cruel joke."
"And so you made it your mission to enlighten everyone. Make sure nobody missed out on the punchline."
"Yeah."
"Not quite so funny now that the joke's on you?"
"No." A wet cough interrupts him as he takes a raspy breath. A new stain on his bloody vest. "No it isn't."
"So what changed?"
"I saw it. HIM. In all his majesty."
"You saw barely a glimmer."
"You're lying."
This time without emotion. Drained of energy.
"Again, whether you believe or not is up to you. I think you know the truth."
"..."
"..."
"You're going to do it, aren't you. You're actually going to do it."
"That's the plan."
"Ha!"
It's the first feeling of genuine amusement he's felt in months. Years, even.
"Hmm?"
"Just...it'd be so funny if you actually pulled it off. Brought him here despite..."
He tries to wave his arm. Fails. Can't muster the energy.
"Despite all this?"
"Yeah."
"And that's why I'll be able to do it."
"Huh?"
"Because, despite everything, all the terrible things the world kept throwing at me...I endured."
"..."
The man in the bloody vest stares down at his hands. When had they started shaking? He doesn't know. Hesitantly he pulls the small switchblade out of his pocket, holds it in trembling fingers. She stares at him with emotionless eyes, but does nothing.
One last time.
He cuts.
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- Location
- West Michigan
The assumption was that we would try to use POS normally on Manton and maybe the projection's appearance changes to reflect his new sanity. If the projection is still recognizable afterwards, then we do the same execution+future cloning plan as for HF and Manny.
Ultimately, the reasons why Sibby is so dangerous are the same reasons why we might want the projection available later.
We don't even have POS, and it'd be a huge XP sink to grab the charms that make it capable of doing what you suggest. Entirely ignoring the morality of it.
Crawler is just uncontrollable. All he cares about is getting stronger; he'd be willing to fight Endbringers, but the moment they're gone you've got a terrifying monster on your hands who wants to fight and get stronger still. What do you do with him for the next 3 months?
Bakuda is similarly insane. She's willing to murder vast numbers of people for "recognition."
Manton is Simurgh'd and too dangerous to include in anything.
Bonesaw, despite being a victim, has herself victimized a great number of people in hideous ways. There is no way, whatsoever, of getting people to accept her as a probationary Ward. The very idea is laughable.
Burnscar could probably get by with living at an asylum where they keep fires down, if she's willing to surrender. More likely she'll fight to the death.
Shatterbird has the highest (IIRC) bodycount because of the way she announces the 9's presence. Citywide devastation causes huge casualties. Nobody would consent to have her on their team, and she's not of the mind to work for the weak mortals. She's all about self-aggrandizement.
Basically, your suggestions rely on a mind-control charm that we don't have, and on circumstances we can't rely on. It's an incredible amount of effort for a realistically small payoff.
You certainly can't put her in the Wards immediately, anyways. It just isn't doable. Nobody would believe she's fixed that fast, even if you could do so with Charms. However, Bonesaw is probably the only member of the S9 that you could have any chance of publicly sparing either death or the Birdcage, and that's only because of her age and how Jack twisted her into what she is now. The Youth Guard could make itself useful for a change and get her an advocate, spread the story about what Jack did to her family to twist her mind in order to garner some degree of pity, and push for a few years of therapy and re-socialization while she's in confinement. At the very least she could be made use of while under supervision.
According to Gromweld, POS will be installed at no cost, and will be determined by Autochton who gets it, due to the dissension on it.
Actually, Auto-kun seems closer to Epimetheus, his brother, with elements of Hephaestus.
Unless he mods the charm line to have no mote commitments and it doesn't count against the charm number limit, it will always have costs.
We do get to suggest Charm loadouts, and POS's commitment costs will constrain our choices.
Indicates that it's probably going on regardless of our suggested loadouts as long as they have the requirements.
POS would be great if we were a villain or a antihero but as a PR reliant hero team it isn't worth the image problems.
If we're lucky it goes on someone with good Compassion/Temperance.
Then it becomes Expedited Therapy Spike.
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- Location
- The end of all things
What image problems?
Remember, what happens in Room 101 stays in Room 101.