I understand our mechanically superior position. Narratively, shooting the overly talkative villain in the head as he starts to monologue is a good end. "No. We don't play your foolish game. *bang*", is the perfect response to villains like Jack and Joker.
Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 18: Ravaging Rapscallions Rapidly Regret Regular Rampages
- Thread starter Gromweld
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Probably whoever is selected for the Jade Caste slot.
I know.
Just pointing out that even if Jack got to run on Exalted rules he'd still be fucked.
Let alone WoD rules.
Derp. Will fix.
Serves me right for doing that writing when sleepy.
I am not particularly wedded to any choice.
It just happens to be narratively appropriate for a confrontation to happen.
And for a person who enjoys the sound of his own voice like Jacob? Getting beaten at his game would be particularly galling.
Not to mention that letting him talk opens tactical opportunities for Taylor, who can run a war or pilot a robot swarm while engaging in social combat with no loss in efficiency.
A standard mortal, OTOH? Distraction.
Remember, we have other aims here than killing Jack Slash.
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He is considerably darker than the vast majority of Earth-Bet deities, actually, but that has more to do with poor lighting conditions than anything.
Considering how Sodom went, he's in good company actually.
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Nah, YHWH's actually really shiny.
Only in his night form of pillar of fire. During the day, he's just kinda murky.
FunkyEntropy
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Somebody mention Theion?
Serious question now:
Do we want to kill Bakuda?
She is one of the two Niners who has a "Capture first" designation; the second being Bonesaw.
Given that we need to take her alive anyway, is there any reason to kill her?
I mean, there is a distinct possibility that her munitions can be useful against Endbringers, something that resonates with Taylor's Motivation.
This makes her potentially useful enough to be cut a plea deal for monitored confinement in a PRT lab somewhere.
Especially if we can lay our hands on the Happy Fun Spike tree for court-mandated therapy.
Is there a reasoned argument to kill her besides "mass-murdering member of the Nine?"
Do we want to kill Bakuda?
She is one of the two Niners who has a "Capture first" designation; the second being Bonesaw.
Given that we need to take her alive anyway, is there any reason to kill her?
I mean, there is a distinct possibility that her munitions can be useful against Endbringers, something that resonates with Taylor's Motivation.
This makes her potentially useful enough to be cut a plea deal for monitored confinement in a PRT lab somewhere.
Especially if we can lay our hands on the Happy Fun Spike tree for court-mandated therapy.
Is there a reasoned argument to kill her besides "mass-murdering member of the Nine?"
Giygas
Cutest Sawk i could find. Lucario is a nice extra.
She may have gone full crazy/brainwashed/experimented by Mannequin/Bonesaw, thus installing/having installed a bomb inside herself?
... Of course, getting Weaver to watch her with her Special Eyes would make that obvious, thus making it at best a minor problem.
No objection to your actual argument, Bakuda is likely beyond our ability to rehabilitate through mundane means, but can we please stop calling POS "Therapy"? That's not what it does, and it's kind of a tasteless euphemism. Call forced mental conditioning what it is.
"Therapy" is not a bad term for a mental treatment which makes someone no longer insane.
I just think it's disingenuous to use a tool that is explicitly for brainwashing on criminals and call it 'therapy'. That's degrading to the entire profession and kind of horrible, in my view.
If we're going to forcefully recondition criminals into our own soldiers, at least have the decency to own it.
If we're going to forcefully recondition criminals into our own soldiers, at least have the decency to own it.
I would not want to have her in our Amalgam, neither rehabilitated nor "rehabilitated".
That said I am ok with letting her live, although after "rehabilitation" or, to be honest with terms, forced mental conditioning.
sainen
Elder Lich
Assembly is the word you're looking for, and I agree that Bakuda isn't the best fit for our team.
I'd prefer if she actually just went to a conventional therapist. The PRT has some good ones, and if we can clear some of the frankly self-defeating parts of the bureaucracy out, that'd be way better in the long run than just spiking everyone. Sadly that feels like a pipe dream at this point, and we'll have to make do with reformating her brain until it suits us.
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A bit premature to adopt that stance.
You seemed to be objecting to the whole trend of using it that way, which had mostly been talking about making Bonesaw's victims forget their trauma (which is totally therapy). If you meant purely the Bakuda-brainwashing, then yes, it's a bit euphemistic.
However, I object to the claim that POS is "a tool that is explicitly for brainwashing" when it can be used uncontested and has functions like "enhance target's permanent Willpower". It's certainly an effective tool for brainwashing, but it does have other uses that are not off-label.
It's not like the PRT doesn't have a history of offering captured villains a way out by going hero.
Granted, I don't think they're usually as unhinged as Bakuda. And I doubt anyone but Harbinger has ever left the Nine.
Granted... With Weaver's political capital, it might be possible to work something out. A "you make us Endbringer-killing bombs, we let you live" sort of deal. But you'd need Thinkers to keep an eye on her, so...
Granted, I don't think they're usually as unhinged as Bakuda. And I doubt anyone but Harbinger has ever left the Nine.
Granted... With Weaver's political capital, it might be possible to work something out. A "you make us Endbringer-killing bombs, we let you live" sort of deal. But you'd need Thinkers to keep an eye on her, so...
This said, we are not exactly in a position to decide what happens with her after we capture her.
We might, by burning a lot of political capital, influence the situation, and Triumvirate/Cauldron might silently back us, but we will have limited possibilities to interfere.
And were we to have a choice I would try to rehabilitate Riley.
Bakuda went into it more or less on her own, Riley literally did not have a choice, and while she arguably caused the most suffering among the nine she is a brainwashed child, raised since she was six by an absolute and persuasive monster, who slaughtered her parents, then molded her for his perverse pleasure.
I fail to see your point.
Many of the same methods used by psychiatrists for mental health intervention are used by brainwashers as well.
The method itself is not an issue; it's how it's used, and who it's used on.
Of course not.
If I have qualms about Accord, who is pretty stable, why would anyone consider Bakuda as an Exalt?
Whynotboth.gif
Riley gives us a possible legsup on parahuman physiology, so I'd like to kepp her in arms reach.
The PRT can handle Bakuda; after all, they have some experience with Tinkers like String Theory.
This is true. Mostly this is just everyone talking about their fantasy scenario and debating the ethics of the Spike. In reality, burning political capital trying to save members of the S9 would almost certainly be letting our reach exceed our grasp.
To be (probably a little too) generous to Bakuda, we have no idea how much of her behavior is her and how much is her Shard. She might be like Burnscar (or, if we're using Grom's interpretation, Accord) and be unable to stop herself. It's hardly fair to hold her accountable for that when we're already indicating we're willing to excuse it in our allies.
On a related note, from a moral standpoint Burnscar really shouldn't have to be executed. The girl literally cannot stop herself, her shard and Jack have completely screwed her over. In a fantasy world where I got everything I wanted, we'd take her alive and rehabilitate her, or Spike her to help her resist the shard's influence if it became necessary. Sadly, again, this really isn't practical. She'll probably die in the course of the battle. Yet another victim.
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I disagree that who it's used on is a factor. Conditioning someone like Bakuda to fight for us would be brainwashing. Even if she was fully restored to sanity, she still really hates the system as a whole. Making her okay with that goes well beyond the boundaries of therapy.
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We're going to have to be rather judicious in our expenditures of political capital. We're likely going to need most of it short term to weather the storm Exalting our preferred Jade and Moonsilver candidates (Missy and Aisha) will generate.
Her canon reason for hating the system is that one time she didn't get an A. I think that's exactly the sort of thing that therapy (spiky or otherwise) should address.