Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 16: Playful Parasites Pervert Prayer, Perpetuate Plagues

And with Coil confirmed still alive, I remain unconvinced that he doesn't still have hooks into her and her group.
And how would he still have his hooks in them, exactly? Coil's not that big in the grand scale of things, and they now have the backing and support of the Guild and Dragon, who is frankly more influential than Coil could hope to be.
 
I know, poor Blossom, what a cruel comparison.
Blossom is a dude and Tattletale could think circles around him even without her thinker power.

Manual of Exalted Power: Alchemicals pg. 43 said:
It is a testament to Blossom's character that, when inter-viewed by Olgotary officials shortly after his Exaltation on the eve of the Elemental War between Yugash and Sova, he opined that an excess of righteousness was not a flaw but the greatest of virtues. The Olgotary did not agree, and though Blossom served them as a zealous adjudicator, he was forced to retire. As Blossom's creation tied up resources of magical materials and was itself a major cause of the Elemental War, he felt it was only right and proper to lead troops into battle. It was an unmitigated disaster.
Blossom is a being who reasons with aggressive logic and stands on principle regardless of the consequences. When confronted with an opposing point of view, he goes to incredible rhetorical lengths to defend orthodox applications of doctrine and tactics, no matter how unsound or inapplicable to the situation. These are problematic traits for a paragon of Autochthonian society in general, but much worse for a being capable of commanding men to march to their deaths. Morale suffered. Not only did the young Mirrorblade fail to grasp the finer (or even the gross)points of strategy, but he made it clear that he believed the company's failure to excel in battle was the result of their own lax discipline rather than his faults as a commander.
 
Coil's only hooks on Lisa was that she knows he can find her and kill her, something she doesn't have the resources to deal with.
 
I didn't put her up for Exaltation at this point. Her Thinker support would be less about the How?, but the Who? and the Where?. The problem of bringing Auto here is a big one, and her power is very useful in finding out things.
The problem, again, is Essence disruption.

Like if a cape has the capability to open doors between dimensions. Like the chances of a new religion around Auto. Like the best way to make sure the PRT lets us do our thing. Like the exact specialities of Tinkers. She could be a great support. Now that I think about it, making her "mundane" support would mean that Taylor won't have to work with her, which is a pretty nice bonus.
Mundane support is perfectly fine.
Limits liabilities on both sides.

Oh, please. Comparing her to Blossom is ridiculously unfair to her.
Blossom is an example of Motivation-ability mismatch.

Thinker headaches stem from their shards attempting to make sense of Essence. As their model of Essence improves the headaches should go down, or go away entirely if converted.
Really?
Where do we have evidence of this, if I may ask?

Character wise, anyone else qualifying for Starmetal would pose similar problems, it's a requirement of the caste that they think themselves qualified to make decisions for the community by themselves, while her motivations remains consistent: Protecting her friends' interests, and a fixation with preventing suicides. Someone useful to have as an ally, but terrible to deal with as an enemy. What's left is simply shard influence towards Valor(especially the unable to resist a challenge aspects), and being under Coil's thumb.
No, that is one possible interpretation, not all.
Lemme quote the Starmetal entry in MOEP
The Sidereal Exalted were Chosen to wisely advise and enhance the efforts of their fellows and their world. The Starmetal Caste, similarly, endeavors to optimize the efficiency of their assemblies and of Autochthonian society as a whole. Where the Orichalcum Caste leads by example and holds its brilliance forth for all to see and wonder over, however, the Plot Weavers prefer subtlety. The hand that is not seen, they say, accomplishes the most. The caste engages in social engineering, draws up six-year infrastructural plans and exhaustively collates economic, military and social data of all sorts. Starmetals prepare their nations for wars no one else realizes are coming, plan ahead for shortfalls no other statistical models have seen far enough ahead to predict and make sure that crucial information reaches the ears that need to hear it.

The Starmetal Castes are regarded as the greatest spymasters of Autochthonia. While they cannot match the personal disguise and stealth prowess of the Moonsilver Castes, the Daggers of Autochthon operate information networks without peer. Indeed, thanks to subliminal-programming Charms and unseen civic-behavior protocols, many of their agents never realize they are agents at all. Despite this reputation, public opinion toward the Plot Weavers is overwhelmingly positive. The Whispers carefully spin their own legends to make it so. "Aren't you glad the sneakiest, cleverest, most underhanded Exalted in Autochthonia are on your side, working for you?" they ask. Still, information is a double-edged sword. From time to time, a young Whisper is not as clever as he believes himself to be. Spin doctoring runs out of the control, omitted facts come to light, and the local Tripartite Assembly disagrees with the Plot Weaver's definition of "need to know." When the plans of the Starmetal Caste backfire, they tend to do so in a spectacular fashion.

A Plot Weaver's body may be catalyzed only by a soul that has proven itself, in incarnation after incarnation, to possess deep insight and a willingness to take charge of events… even without authorization. The soldier who disobeys orders and carries the day, the lector who sees straight to the needs of his congregation, the plutarch who pushes for policies his contemporaries have not yet realized the need for, the successful Far Reaches cartographer—lives such as these combine to form the personalities of the Daggers of Autochthon. They have long memories of having known better than those around them and a strong tendency to act on those convictions without waiting for authorization or understanding. Yet, on the whole, they are not liars. Whispers will want to control where, when and how much of the truth is disseminated, but they are primarily concerned with maximizing productivity and effectiveness in their endeavors. Half-truths can be forgiven when a plan comes together, but out-and-out deceit impedes future efforts no matter the result.

Whispers usually favor support roles in an assembly, setting the stage for their comrades to be more effective in their particular areas of specialty. A Plot Weaver likely provides fire support in combat, plays "bad regulator" to an Orichalcum or Jade Caste's "good regulator" in social situations, and generally works to smooth the assembly's way whenever possible. Starmetal Caste elders either become vast mechanical spiders sitting at the center of far-flung webs of information, creating proposals and manipulating events according to universe models and precognitive subroutines or else deploy themselves as mobile operating platforms for critical missions. Such Whispers act as a city-on-the-go for Far Reaches salvage efforts, providing nutrients, Essence, equipment, intelligence and enormous remote drone-scouted three-dimensional area maps updated in real time.
Starmetal Caste cities tend to be small but busy nexuses of trade and information, optimizing their citizens' productivity in a thousand subtle but efficacious ways.

Caste Markings: Charms formed of the rarest magical material rely on a delicate, minimalist aesthetic. Braided coils of starmetal wires outline conventional alloys in artful filigree whose loops and whorls are vaguely hypnotic to behold. The animas of this Caste are deep blue, shot through with lines and bursts of prismatic static.

Anima Effect: By reflexively spending five motes, a Plot Weaver can align his soul and Essence with the Design of the Great Maker. His player adds (Essence ÷ 2) to all attack, damage and Join Battle rolls for the scene. During this time, a prismatic halo of colors trails slightly ahead of the Alchemical as a sort of reverse afterimage, highlighting the auspicious movements he will take. Those who behold the halo perceive the dim hand of inevitability, but it avails them nothing. Only in painful retrospect do targets understand what they saw. It activates automatically at no cost whenever the Alchemical's anima reaches the 11+ level of display.

Caste Attributes: Whispers wield body and mind with surgical precision. No other caste can produce such profound results with such calculated and minimalist effort, be it in the ballroom or on the battlefield. As such, their Caste Attributes are Dexterity, Manipulation and Intelligence.

Associations: the color blue, steel, starmetal, the element of steam, half-truths Sobriquets: Blessed of Mog, Daggers of Autochthon, Plot Weavers, Whispers
Concepts: data interpreter, pattern theorist, social prognosticator, tactical advisor

Now trust is definitely a factor, since we've never been able to get her story so far, but also clearly she feels safe enough with us that she moved into a neighboring city AND initiated contact with us when she could have vanished off the map instead. There's something to Danny's story there, and she WAS acting under duress at the time. Perhaps she's figured out that Coil lives, and prefers being near someone who'd deal with him. Or perhaps what she said back in school was entirely genuine.
No.
She has at no point in time initiated contact with us; her team members have, specifically Parian.
Grue we've met, but only because of Parian and Who
Dragon initiated contact with her/them, not the other way around.

As for moving cities, three of her teammates(Grue, Parian) had reason to move into the Philly area.
There is no current evidence it was her idea.
She has also gone hero, a sign of being willing to make the first steps of talking to US. All that's left is for her to actually meet as agreed and explain shit.
Not necessarily.
Dragon made her team a good offer because Panacea, Parian and Grue, and they took it; some members were more strongly incentivised to take it than others.
Doesn't translate to some change in motivation.

My point?
Jury stilll out.
 
Blossom is a dude and Tattletale could think circles around him even without her thinker power.

Wait

"When confronted with an opposing point of view, he goes to incredible rhetorical lengths to defend orthodox applications of doctrine and tactics, no matter how unsound or inapplicable to the situation"

And he's supposed to be a MOONSILVER?
 
Wait

"When confronted with an opposing point of view, he goes to incredible rhetorical lengths to defend orthodox applications of doctrine and tactics, no matter how unsound or inapplicable to the situation"

And he's supposed to be a MOONSILVER?
obviously his rhetoric is vary creative and he adapt his arguments well.
 
Yes and the only ones I think that fulfil that are, Tattletale, Accord .. uh Contessa? Alexandria? Dr. Mother?.
Tattle is probably still the least bad choice^^.
Dean/Gallant. Yamada.

And how would he still have his hooks in them, exactly? Coil's not that big in the grand scale of things, and they now have the backing and support of the Guild and Dragon, who is frankly more influential than Coil could hope to be.
The same way he mind-fucked Danny in barely a few minutes, and gamed our assassination for a month in advance.

As currently described, Quest!Coil has the second most broken Thinker power after Contessa.
Dragon has shackles, everything from her hard-coded requirements to obey orders from authorities to the fact that Geoffrey Pellick has a hardline into her systems.
I can see Coil taking the Dragonslayers under his aegis for example; Saint did the same thing with Teacher in canon.
 
As currently described, Quest!Coil has the second most broken Thinker power after Contessa.
Dragon has shackles, everything from her hard-coded requirements to obey orders from authorities to the fact that Geoffrey Pellick has a hardline into her systems.
I can see Coil taking the Dragonslayers under his aegis for example; Saint did the same thing with Teacher in canon.
What is his motivation do things like that? The Dragonslayers are not really good minion material, because zealots with a different cause are bad minions. Hireing them for jobs? Sure. Giving them the whole underling deal? I doubt that.

On Tattletale and Coil: she is a very useful minion, but the cost of getting her rose from "waving a pistol at her face" to "making an enemy out of the greatest Tinker on the planet." Coil is generally portrayed as a guy who tries to act more or less rationally. Making a play like that for Tt is not really cost-effective now. He might try something in the S9 chaos, if he has assets in place, but I doubt that.

On the other hand I can totally see him going for Dinah again.
 
Couple of thoughts
  1. higher priority than transitioning Autocthon: figuring out a way to generate Essence for Autochthon to eat
    1. maybe beaming it over to him too
  2. once the S9 arc is done we should simply call Myrridin up on the phone to ask about the references he made to Creation-physics. If he can provide independent verification of some of our stuff, that should help our relations with the PRT a lot.
  3. cyborg bugs (dammit we should have asked Bezlebot about doing this before he went crazy) let weaver interface Perfect Administrator with the internet and electronics. EXTREME multitasking is a go.
  4. we should get templates loaded into the chair that can be made from bug biomatter so that we can refuel the 3d printer on the go by just flying bugs into the storage container.
 
What is his motivation do things like that? The Dragonslayers are not really good minion material, because zealots with a different cause are bad minions. Hireing them for jobs? Sure. Giving them the whole underling deal? I doubt that.
Coil's motivation is to Rule Everything.
Literally tried to kill us because we were immune to his power.
Given that the Dragonslayers have a way around the PRT's premier tinker/infosystems expert, of course he'd be interested now that his ambitions are not limited to Brockton Bay.

On Tattletale and Coil: she is a very useful minion, but the cost of getting her rose from "waving a pistol at her face" to "making an enemy out of the greatest Tinker on the planet." Coil is generally portrayed as a guy who tries to act more or less rationally. Making a play like that for Tt is not really cost-effective now. He might try something in the S9 chaos, if he has assets in place, but I doubt that.
You are talking about the guy who tried to assassinate us because Ultimate Power!
Whose base was built with a self-destruct even before Noelle came along IIRC.
Who used to torture people for relief.
Dude has a large vindictive streak.

Coil only looks reasonable in canon because he's being compared to gang bosses like Skidmark, Lung and Kaiser.
As for making an enemy of Dragon, Geoffrey Pellick has been demonstrating for years that it is a very survivable proposition.
If you don't think other people noticed...
 
Exalting Missy - We definitely need to ASK her before we go through with the deed, since it's big decision that shouldn't be made lightly. So we should probably heal her up to full capacity (or close to it) and then talk to her.

Exalting Lisa - We need answers. She knows parts of what happened to Danny and we've been putting off focusing on her for the time being. We also need to vet her and see what her overall goal is, because she tends to dream big (taking over a city for example).

Exalting Dean - He might actually jump at the chance. His girlfriend was killed by Behemoth in front of him and now Missy (who he thought of as a sister) has been kidnapped by the S9. He might want to be able to prevent that from happening again and would be willing to Exalt. Doesn't hurt that he considers us a close friend and trusts us.

Exalting Who - Meh. Don't like her, but I can't deny that her power is very useful though I'm not sold on her mindset/personality. She also still needs to be asked when she's in a better position other than near death.
 
In translating an unshackled Dragon to Exalted terms, given a library of cooperative Tinkers to work with.

She's not Exalted scale.

She's Primordial scale.
I have got to disagree on Pirmodial scale, she lacks the ability to change the laws of the universe, she can theoretically abuse the laws of the universe (and discover new ones) to a ridiculous extent but she cannot change them.

There is something in Autochthonia that fits exactly what she is, even if she is better than a standard one (and able to fight), they are called AIs, (animating inteliegnces, they are also fully sapient and sentient as demonstrated by the canon example). They run buildings and vehicles of various descriptions. She would be at a high essence level, possibly higher than any that have been previously constructed, but she is not outside the capabilites of construction.

The other comparisson would be with Destroyers, they are basicly the representation of the technology, the canon example has the ability to monitor all examples of the weapon using sense domain, so theoretically a variant that allows constant tracking could be made, and then a variant which allows the control of all examples, this shouldn't take all her essence reserves, meaning she could do other things than what she can currently do

Or perhaps a weird combination of both...
 
Exalting Missy - We definitely need to ASK her before we go through with the deed, since it's big decision that shouldn't be made lightly. So we should probably heal her up to full capacity (or close to it) and then talk to her.

Exalting Lisa - We need answers. She knows parts of what happened to Danny and we've been putting off focusing on her for the time being. We also need to vet her and see what her overall goal is, because she tends to dream big (taking over a city for example).

Exalting Dean - He might actually jump at the chance. His girlfriend was killed by Behemoth in front of him and now Missy (who he thought of as a sister) has been kidnapped by the S9. He might want to be able to prevent that from happening again and would be willing to Exalt. Doesn't hurt that he considers us a close friend and trusts us.

Exalting Who - Meh. Don't like her, but I can't deny that her power is very useful though I'm not sold on her mindset/personality. She also still needs to be asked when she's in a better position other than near death.
Agreed on absolutely requiring Missy's consent. I support Exalting her, but if she's not in a state where she can communicate, she can't give consent, and I am totally against imposing the responsibility of an Exalt on someone without their consent.

Mostly against Exalting Lisa. She and the rest of her crew have turned coat and she's performing a valuable service taking care of Amy. Also, they're happy, and I'm a huge softy who hates sacrificing individual happiness for the GREATER GOOD.

I'd comment how I feel about Dean, but I don't feel anything about Dean. Soooo boring. He's a nice guy and a possible romance option and he would make a good party face, but I don't really want him getting the extra screen-time inherent in being an Exalt, he's just too vanilla.

I don't think I need to actually say my feelings on Aisha, at this point. I've been cheer-leading long enough that they go without saying. That said, this probably isn't the right time for it. Her injuries are less extreme than Vista's, so I agree with Taylor's journal: Leave Aisha until the 3rd Exaltation, at least.
 
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Agreed on absolutely requiring Missy's consent. I support Exalting her, but if she's not in a state where she can communicate, she can't give consent, and I am totally against imposing the responsibility of an Exalt on someone without their consent.

Mostly against Exalting Lisa. She and the rest of her crew have turned coat and she's performing a valuable service taking care of Amy. Also, they're happy, and I'm a huge softy who hates sacrificing individual happiness for the GREATER GOOD.

I'd comment how I feel about Dean, but I don't feel anything about Dean. Soooo boring. He's a nice guy and a possible romance option and he would make a good party face, but I don't really want him getting the extra screen-time inherent in being an Exalt, he's just too vanilla.

I don't think I need to actually say my feelings on Aisha, at this point. I've been cheer-leading long enough that they go without saying. That said, this probably isn't the right time for it. Her injuries are less extreme than Vista's, so I agree with Taylor's journal: Leave Aisha until the 3rd Exaltation, at least.
I think talking to Chevalier again would be a good idea.
 
Agreed on absolutely requiring Missy's consent. I support Exalting her, but if she's not in a state where she can communicate, she can't give consent, and I am totally against imposing the responsibility of an Exalt on someone without their consent.

Mostly against Exalting Lisa. She and the rest of her crew have turned coat and she's performing a valuable service taking care of Amy. Also, they're happy, and I'm a huge softy who hates sacrificing individual happiness for the GREATER GOOD.

I'd comment how I feel about Dean, but I don't feel anything about Dean. Soooo boring. He's a nice guy and a possible romance option and he would make a good party face, but I don't really want him getting the extra screen-time inherent in being an Exalt, he's just too vanilla.

I don't think I need to actually say my feelings on Aisha, at this point. I've been cheer-leading long enough that they go without saying. That said, this probably isn't the right time for it. Her injuries are less extreme than Vista's, so I agree with Taylor's journal: Leave Aisha until the 3rd Exaltation, at least.

Ah but what if thanks to the "pep talk" she gets from Autocthon in the cradle or what have you she realizes she WANTS to help more people like Amy and it make her happy or even that she views the exaltation as simply yet another way to help her to keep her friends safe along with the rest of the World?
 
Hey, here's a thought. What was our problem with converting Wards in the past? They were too young, only do it if they were dying? Suddenly the majority are in the clutches of the S9.

What about Tattletale? She's a villain and we don't trust her? Suddenly she's a hero and more easily accessible than before.

Hm. Interesting.
 
I don't think I need to actually say my feelings on Aisha, at this point. I've been cheer-leading long enough that they go without saying. That said, this probably isn't the right time for it. Her injuries are less extreme than Vista's, so I agree with Taylor's journal: Leave Aisha until the 3rd Exaltation, at least.
That fact that Aisha suffering from three amputated limbs, massive shock, and blood loss is arguably less extreme than what has happened to Missy is rather depressing, isn't it?
 
I think talking to Chevalier again would be a good idea.
Robert has potential, but the Protectorate won't be thrilled at us subverting one of their more senior Heroes. We'll work on it, but I don't think he's going to be number three.

Ah but what if thanks to the "pep talk" she gets from Autocthon in the cradle or what have you she realizes she WANTS to help more people like Amy and it make her happy or even that she views the exaltation as simply yet another way to help her to keep her friends safe along with the rest of the World?
Justification is a little ex post facto for my taste, but it could work. Either way, though, we have to talk her into the Cradle in the name of the Greater Good(tm) and Lisa is not a particularly self-sacrificing individual. I'm not really AGAINST it, I guess, but I'm not really FOR it either.

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That fact that Aisha suffering from three amputated limbs, massive shock, and blood loss is arguably less extreme than what has happened to Missy is rather depressing, isn't it?
No kidding. We've been dealt a shit hand and this is just about making the best of it. Hopefully we can rehabilitate her in the near future. Not really counting on an Exaltation for her, but it would be nice.
 
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Can't. Some of those things just plain aren't available to Exalted until E6+ custom charms, if at all.

Dragon, as she is now, has more than 800xp worth of charms and mutations in just the abilities she get from "is an artificial intelligence", discounting any tinkertech she has studied and built in a tiny fraction of the time it takes to construct one artifact. She doesn't even benefit from Exalted training times, for the most part she could update her targeting algorithm to get Firearms 5, or download an information library to get any knowledge skill she wants, with the ability to have actually complete knowledge of a field in mind rather than the more fallible memory of even an Exalt.
Actually that sounds a lot like the fifth augmentation.

Mostly against Exalting Lisa. She and the rest of her crew have turned coat and she's performing a valuable service taking care of Amy. Also, they're happy, and I'm a huge softy who hates sacrificing individual happiness for the GREATER GOOD.
Why are you assuming that exalting Lisa would make her less happy? She already doesn't really have a civilian life and is incapable of romantic relationships anyway so being a robot wouldn't be much of a burden for her. She like being the smartest person in the room, knowing things and plotting schemes. Being exalted would help with all that. I imagine she would get augmentations of both intelligence for her issues and manipulation because that is what she does.
 
Justification is a little ex post facto for my taste, but it could work. Either way, though, we have to talk her into the Cradle in the name of the Greater Good(tm) and Lisa is not a particularly self-sacrificing individual. I'm not really AGAINST it, I guess, but I'm not really FOR it either.

Getting trapped inside Echidna and tortured by nightmares she was seems to have made her determined to be a better person and lead to her "adopting" Amy so its not too far fetched she might be just a teensy bit more open to altruism.

Why are you assuming that exalting Lisa would make her less happy? She already doesn't really have a civilian life and is incapable of romantic relationships anyway so being a robot wouldn't be much of a burden for her. She like being the smartest person in the room, knowing things and plotting schemes. Being exalted would help with all that. I imagine she would get augmentations of both intelligence for her issues and manipulation because that is what she does.

Given that that's mostly caused by her inability to control her power and probably the migraines from overuse, becoming a robot would probably fix that.
 
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