Ad Astra ex Lutum

Should definitely still do the disaster response it's just good pr and what else will our guys do besides training if that if the barely do any training option gets chosen.
 
We can figure out the fitting out with weapons over time, I think. It may take a year just to familiarize ourselves with the systems enough that we can even tailor weapons to fit into them.
More than what @Simon_Jester said, I think buying used alien warships is the cheaper procurement option right now. Since now that we're on the wider galactic map now I think having at least some deeper space system protection is needed so we can't be poked at by just about any pirate or whoever with a decently sized ship while we try to rush a tech-up, and the OFACs seem pretty closely tied to the body their based on. If we aren't buying second hand alien warships for that, the other option is going through the whole procurement process to make our own from scratch, which will probably be both worse and more expensive right now. 200B Or of mining gets us almost enough XCU to buy the cruiser pair, or 100B Or of crypto fuckery can do that by itself, I don't think we'll be able to design and launch new warships of our own right now for anything close to that even without their own weapons too.

Once we've got our reconstruction mostly finished, a bunch of space industry back up, and digested a lot of our new techs, then by the next plan at the earliest IMO we can start considering whether to build native warships of our own. But even then foreign hulls might still be just qualitatively better.
I agree that buying the hulls looks like a great deal, but this is my concern:
[]Ehecatl Class Light Cruisers: A pair of three-generation old light cruisers that have refurbished drives and updated electronic systems but are hulls that have entirely been stripped of weaponry. As test platforms, these massive and capable ships offer a significantly improved capacity for maneuver than domestic systems and can easily be loaded down with several locally made weapon systems to become capable combat craft
These ships are unarmed and we need to arm them ourselves. Now, we can make near-CLP-tier particle beams and Synod-tier point defenses, but it'll still cost money. If we're not going to arm them early this plan, then we may as well just buy the courier.
 
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We can figure out the fitting out with weapons over time, I think. It may take a year just to familiarize ourselves with the systems enough that we can even tailor weapons to fit into them.
Yeah, but the budget we get right now is supposed to tide us over for the next five years. We can ask for more mid-plan, I suppose, but that's still 2-3 years away.
 
Actually while we do talk about not needing to do procurement there is one project that fill an actual gap in our forces: the militsrized moon buggy.

While whatever we make from it is outdated at best, it is still a short term mobility option for securing the moon and should be fairly cheap. It probably won't see immediate deployment or even manufacture until we really go back to the moon besides a toehold but once we do well probably want to start digging 100 moon megabunkers with gt nuke charges to make sure it's fate during the war can't repeat itself
 
I agree that buying the hulls is best, but this is my concern:
These ships are unarmed and we need to arm them ourselves. Now, we can make near-CLP-tier particle beams and Synod-tier point defenses, but it'll still cost money. If we're not going to arm them early this plan, then we may as well just buy the courier.
OTOH, I think even without the weapons I think a lot of what we can learn from the cruiser hulls and the manuals they come with is more useful to us right now than what we can learn from the courier. We have the safe FTL tech already, we can build safe FTL drives usable by both us and our Lirrir friends, and it doesn't really matter if a bulk cargo ship is slow as much as if it is reliable. If we need to go faster we can slightly hot rod our drives (not to the point of our first gen's unreliability but still faster) while still keeping them relatively safe for us Seelie to use with our more durable brain meats.

Meanwhile we don't really have any personal experience with how people build warships and fight space combat between them, with how all our own got killed in their docks before we could learn by smashing to them them to pieces against the CLP frigates.
 
I agree that buying the hulls looks like a great deal, but this is my concern:

These ships are unarmed and we need to arm them ourselves. Now, we can make near-CLP-tier particle beams and Synod-tier point defenses, but it'll still cost money. If we're not going to arm them early this plan, then we may as well just buy the courier.
Notably, if we buy the cruiser hulls, that becomes a matter of public record, and people won't know when we have or have not armed them.

Now, literal pirates might not know or might take the risk (though our reputation as having chased off the CLP will spread through local space). But anyone who's done opposition research will know we MIGHT have warships with some real if limited force. Deterrence is good.
 
We're in bumfuck nowhere, am not really worried about pirates (we don't really have anything worth stealing anyway and the CLP is handling transportation as well, if they get their REs stolen then that's a problem for their security forces, and if not, their insurance).

EDIT: Also, we did kill a Frigate that was not near planetary orbit, so that's some deterrence right there.
 
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Yeah, ultimately, three previous generation cruisers - possibly even unarmed - are not going to deter anyone who could actually present a danger. Random pirates have no reason to come near our orbit to blow up infrastructure and risk getting jumped by OFACs, while the states are both too powerful to be stopped by them and know to little of us to be that aggressive. I think we can safely wait 3-5 years before starting to rebuild our space navy.
 
We'd also need to shake lose the money to actually develop a particle beam and retrofit the ships with it. I do want to do it, but I dont think this budget cycle is the best time for it.

In general though buying and retrofitting combat ships is definitely extremely valid while we build up our shipbuilding and design capabilities.
 
Random pirates may want to steal stuff from elf mining stations deeper in system - except elves don't have them anymore of course. And when they would start rebuilding them, they could look into the available ships again.

In general though buying and retrofitting combat ships is definitely extremely valid while we build up our shipbuilding and design capabilities.

Yeah, that's how Turks IRL started their own shipbuilding industry (in last few decades) - and now they are quite successful at it.
 
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Random pirates may want to steal stuff from elf mining stations deeper in system - except elves don't have them anymore of course. And when they would start rebuilding them, they could look into the available ships again.
We actually do have the colony in Cethyria and one surviving mining station (out of the three pre-war iirc), but again. Its not exactly a juicy target. The RE's coming from our planet are.
 
Groundside (-1800B after civgov deals)

I think your total groundside costs are 1900B after the deals. You added 800B worth of stuff not 700 and you spent 1100B in your 1st plan.
Expanding Trade Infrastructure 150B
Curach Garrison Program 100B
Department 4 Consolidation 150B
Department 6 Expansion 100B
Pre-Construction of Orbital Components 200B
Expansion of Inventory Management Systems 100B

You dont need to cut anything though cause I think you also added the totals wrong for that plan. 6200 army + 350 Forex +1500 Space + 1800 Groundside = 9850B. If the groundside costs are 1900 then you get the 50B you'd expect left over.
 
I think your total groundside costs are 1900B after the deals. You added 800B worth of stuff not 700 and you spent 1100B in your 1st plan.
Expanding Trade Infrastructure 150B
Curach Garrison Program 100B
Department 4 Consolidation 150B
Department 6 Expansion 100B
Pre-Construction of Orbital Components 200B
Expansion of Inventory Management Systems 100B

You dont need to cut anything though cause I think you also added the totals wrong for that plan. 6200 army + 350 Forex +1500 Space + 1800 Groundside = 9850B. If the groundside costs are 1900 then you get the 50B you'd expect left over.
That's probably correct. I know the whole plan adds up to 50B left for both Cheap and the other.
 
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Also I would think that if a pirate got interested in us it would be to do some trading of the loot they got for the various things and see if they can get any elfs interested in being hired as shock troopers, because our guys fight hard and come back from a lot of injuries that would make other species worthless without replacements of the metal or bio kind?
 
Has space piracy even been established to be a thing? AAEL seems to be going by the hard-scifi tenet of there being no stealth in space so that really limits the possibilities.

regardless we should only buy the courier, just so we can scout for planets to drop our NEETS on.
 
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Has space piracy even been established to be a thing? AAEL seems to be going by the hard-scifi tenet of there being no stealth in space so that really limits the possibilities.
It's worth remembering that there are multiple business models for pirates and "sneak up on ships as they sail around" is usually not the only or even the most profitable one, at least in certain environments. "Raid a poorly defended coastal town" is a favorite in eras where that's possible, for instance.

And we've already seen that the fundamental prerequisites for some degree of piracy are in place. There is an active trade in weapons including weapons affordable to a corporate investor. There are legally gray "shadowport" sites that are willing to accept shady or unconventional customers. There are places where it is advisable for merchants to travel armed or for lightly armed escort ships to operate routinely, creating a legal gray area in which it's hard to prosecute someone for "being a pirate" unless they get caught and called out.

That combination makes piracy... plausible, especially when bearing in mind that the distinction between a group like the Synod and a bunch of pirates is mostly a matter of flavor and tone.

Danaan itself is inherently a hard enough target that no opportunistic raider whose intention was pure plunder would come after us there, but mining stations and outposts are not, at last for now.
 
Vote's open.

[X] Plan Oops! All Infra!
-[X] Formally Resign
-[X] Civilian Recommendations (+10T Or)
-[X] Hard Cutbacks (-1T Or)
-[X] Two Million Army
-[X] Return to Pre-War Standards (-1.5M Or per soldier)
-[X] Peacetime Army (-0.3M Or per soldier)
-[X] Combined Government Programs (+1750B Or):
--[X] Domestic Competitiveness Programs (+950B Or)
--[X] Technical Jobs Programs (+800B Or)
-[X] Foreign Exchange Sources (-350B Or, +90B XCU, +??B XCU):
--[X] Cryptographic Currency Program (-100B Or, +50B XCU)
--[X] Refined Material Sales (-200B Or, +40B XCU)
--[X] Mass Media Sales (-50B Or, +??B XCU)
-[X] Foreign Exchange Purchases (-90B XCU):
--[X] Foreign Student Funding (-15B XCU)
--[X] Hire Technical Professionals (-5B XCU)
--[X] Hire Professors (-20B XCU)
--[X] Textbook and Database Contracts (-25B XCU)
--[X] Itzcuih Class Courier Craft (-25B XCU)
-[X] Space Infrastructure (-1950B/2000B Or):
--[X] Orbital Launch Ring (-500B Or)
--[X] Re-Establishment of Orbital Shuttles (-100B Or)
--[X] Restart Orbital Cleaning Efforts (-150B Or)
--[X] Recolonization of the Inner Moon (-200B Or)
--[X] Establishment of Orbital Manufacturing (-400B Or)
--[X] Renovations of Destroyed Cylinders (-250B Or)
--[X] Dockyards and Trade Stations (-200B Or)
--[X] Restoration of Satellite Networks (-150B Or)
-[X] Terrestrial Infrastructure (-4350B Or):
--[X] OFAC to AFCC Yard Conversions (-400B Or)
--[X] CLP Standard Spaceports (-250B Or)
--[X] Expanding Trade Infrastructure (-150B Or)
--[X] Reorganization of Disaster Relief (-50B Or)
--[X] Curach Garrison Program (-100B Or)
--[X] Department 4 Consolidation (-150B Or)
--[X] Department 6 Expansion (-100B Or)
--[X] Civilian-Military Partnerships (-250B Or)
--[X] Expanded Military Scholarships (-200B Or)
--[X] Formalized Tech Transfers (-300B Or)
--[X] Superconductor Plants (-600B Or)
--[X] Inertial Fusion Test Facility (-300B Or)
--[X] Optical Computing Programs (-450B Or)
--[X] Dedicated Military-Electronics Plants (-300B Or)
--[X] Next Generation HEA Plants (-250B Or)
--[X] Pre-Construction of Orbital Components (-200B Or)
--[X] High Throughput CNT Production (-200B Or)
--[X] Expansion of Inventory Management Systems (-100B Or)
-[X] elfbudget: 10000B - 3000B benefits - 600B operational costs - 1000B manufacturing - 350B forex - 1950B orbital - 4350B terrestrial + 1750B grants = 500B Or
-[X] salamanderbudget: 90B - 90B + ??B = 0B + ??B XCU

[X] Plan Winning The Peace Cheaply
 
[X] Plan Winning The Peace
-[X] Formally Resign
-[X] Civilian Recommendations
-[X] Hard Cutbacks
-[X] Four Million Army
-[X] Return Pre-War Standards
-[X] Peacetime Army
-[X] Domestic Competitiveness Programs
-[X] Technical Jobs Programs
-[X] Forex (-350B Or)
--[X] Refined Material Sales
--[X] Cryptographic Currency Program
--[X] Mass Media Sales
--[X] Foreign Student Funding
--[X] Hire Technical Professionals
--[X] Hire Professors
--[X] Textbook and Database Contracts
--[X] Itzcuih Class Courier Craft
-[X] Space Infrastructure (-300B)
--[X] Restart Orbital Cleaning Efforts
--[X] Restoration of Satellite Networks
-[X] Groundside (-1100B after civgov deals)
--[X] Civilian-Military Partnerships
--[X] Expanded Military Scholarships
--[X] Formalized Tech Transfers
--[X] Superconductor Plants
--[X] Inertial Fusion Test Facility
--[X] Optical Computing Programs
--[X] Dedicated Military-Electronics Plants
--[X] Next Generation HEA Plants
--[X] High Throughput CNT Production

This is the first plan I made:

[X] Plan Winning The Peace Cheaply
-[X] Formally Resign
-[X] Civilian Recommendations
-[X] Hard Cutbacks
-[X] Four Million Army
-[X] Stay on Reduced Benefits
-[X] Peacetime Army
-[X] Domestic Competitiveness Programs
-[X] Technical Jobs Programs
-[X] Forex (-350B Or)
--[X] Refined Material Sales
--[X] Cryptographic Currency Program
--[X] Mass Media Sales
--[X] Foreign Student Funding
--[X] Hire Technical Professionals
--[X] Hire Professors
--[X] Textbook and Database Contracts
--[X] Itzcuih Class Courier Craft
-[X] Space Infrastructure (-1500B)
--[X] Orbital Launch Ring
--[X] Re-Establishment of Orbital Shuttles
--[X] Restart Orbital Cleaning Efforts
--[X] Recolonization of the Inner Moon
--[X] Establishment of Orbital Manufacturing
--[X] Restoration of Satellite Networks
-[X] Groundside (-1800B after civgov deals)
--[X] Expanding Trade Infrastructure
--[X] Curach Garrison Program
--[X] Department 4 Consolidation
--[X] Department 6 Expansion
--[X] Civilian-Military Partnerships
--[X] Expanded Military Scholarships
--[X] Formalized Tech Transfers
--[X] Superconductor Plants
--[X] Inertial Fusion Test Facility
--[X] Optical Computing Programs
--[X] Dedicated Military-Electronics Plants
--[X] Next Generation HEA Plants
--[X] High Throughput CNT Production
--[X] Pre-Construction of Orbital Components
--[X] Expansion of Inventory Management Systems

Second plan.

Both thease plans leave 50B Or as a slush budget, with the idea of asking a friendly gov for a little spending money after the election. I think Winning The Peace Cheaply is the superior plan, but im posting both to present the options.
 
[X]Plan Winning The HEAs Cheaply
-[X]Formally Resign
-[X]Civilian Recommendations
-[X]Hard Cutbacks
-[X]Four Million Army
-[X]Stay on Reduced Benefits
-[X]Peacetime Army
-[X]Domestic Competitiveness Programs
-[X]Technical Jobs Programs
-[X]Refined Material Sales
-[X]Cryptographic Currency Program
-[X]Mass Media Sales
-[X]Foreign Student Funding
-[X]Hire Technical Professionals
-[X]Hire Professors
-[X]Textbook and Database Contracts
-[X]Next Generation HEA Powder Mills
-[X]Orbital Launch Ring
-[X]Re-Establishment of Orbital Shuttles
-[X]Restart Orbital Cleaning Efforts
-[X]Recolonization of the Inner Moon
-[X]Establishment of Orbital Manufacturing
-[X]Restoration of Satellite Networks
-[X]Expanding Trade Infrastructure
-[X]Curach Garrison Program
-[X]Department 4 Consolidation
-[X]Department 6 Expansion
-[X]Civilian-Military Partnerships
-[X]Expanded Military Scholarships
-[X]Formalized Tech Transfers
-[X]Superconductor Plants
-[X]Inertial Fusion Test Facility
-[X]Optical Computing Programs
-[X]Dedicated Military-Electronics Plants
-[X]Next Generation HEA Plants
-[X]Pre-Construction of Orbital Components
-[X]High Throughput CNT Production
-[X]Expansion of Inventory Management Systems
 
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Here is my plan

[X]Plan Industry, Cruisers and HEA Mills
-[X]Formally Resign
-[X]Civilian Recommendations
-[X]Hard Cutbacks
-[X]Four Million Army
-[X]Stay on Reduced Benefits
-[X]Peacetime Army
-[X]Domestic Competitiveness Programs
-[X]Technical Jobs Programs
-[X]Forex (-850B Or)
--[X]Refined Material Sales
--[X]Expansive Material Sales
--[X]Cryptographic Currency Program
--[X]Mass Media Sales
--[X]Foreign Student Funding
--[X]Hire Technical Professionals
--[X]Hire Professors
--[X]Hire Military Experts:
--[X]Textbook and Database Contracts
--[X]Ehecatl Class Light Cruisers
--[X]Itzcuih Class Courier Craft
--[X]Next Generation HEA Powder Mills
-[X] Space Infrastructure (-1500B)
--[X]Orbital Launch Ring
--[X]Re-Establishment of Orbital Shuttles
--[X]Restart Orbital Cleaning Efforts
--[X]Recolonization of the Inner Moon
--[X]Establishment of Orbital Manufacturing
--[X]Restoration of Satellite Networks
-[X]Groundside (-1450B after civgov deals)
--[X]Curach Garrison Program
--[X]Department 4 Consolidation
--[X]Department 6 Expansion
--[X]Civilian-Military Partnerships
--[X]Expanded Military Scholarships
--[X]Formalized Tech Transfers
--[X]Superconductor Plants
--[X]Inertial Fusion Test Facility
--[X]Optical Computing Programs
--[X]Dedicated Military-Electronics Plants
--[X]Next Generation HEA Plants
--[X]High Throughput CNT Production

My post with my reasoning is here. does spend our entire budget but I don't think we want to procure becasue everything going to become obselete whilst we're catching up on tech.
[]Plan Industry, Cruisers and HEA MIlls

[X]Plan Winning The HEAs Cheaply
 
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[X]Plan Winning The HEAs Cheaply
[X] Plan Winning The Peace Cheaply

Objectively getting the courier ship is the better option, in addition to tech benefits we also get an ftl capable ship which opens up a lot of options while the plan ticks over.

Otoh if the HEA mills work out I figure we can be close enough to what the sovereignty can make that we can start exporting bulk heas for a much better profit ratio than our currently available exports and i do love gambling so
 
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