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Ad Astra ex Lutum

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It's, uh, painful to have to pass on so much of the foreign tech advancement opportunities, but with the PRLM being right there next to us in the Dead zone, with a declared absolute claim over the whole thing and funneling tons of their industry into the military to retake it I feel like we really shouldn't go for a total repeat of our previous rebuilding where we completely ignored military buildup for a while and then tried to rush as much of it as we could before anything happened. Especially as this time we have a much better picture of what we might be facing instead of blind guesses.

To that end I reduced the foreign purchases to just the HEAs, hired professors, and the two light cruisers. Which is painful, as I said, but I feel like the cruisers would be really worth it as a rapid buildup of at least some system defense, a good platform for us to test our own weapons and tactics on, tech transfer from their own manuals and hulls, and they too should have a Lirrir-usable comprehensively safe FTL drive since that got brought up about the courier.

The other option for foreign tech would be to take the students and technician hires, but I'd prefer to take the latter when we also grab all the databases. Or we could figure out what to cut to go up to Expansive resource selling, which would provide another 40B XCU to expand, enough to grab at least two more foreign tech options.

[]Plan: Second Verse Not The Same As The First
-[]Formally Resign
-[]Civilian Recommendations
-[]Hard Cutbacks
-[]Four Million Army
-[]Stay on Reduced Benefits
-[]Peacetime Army
-[]Domestic Competitiveness Programs
-[]Technical Jobs Programs
(Leaves 3800B Or for infrastructure and procurement, ignoring civgov deals)
Forex (-350B Or)
-[]Refined Material Sales
-[]Cryptographic Currency Program
-[]Mass Media Sales
-[]Hire Professors
-[]Ehecatl Class Light Cruisers
-[]Next Generation HEA Powder Mills
Space Infrastructure (-1500B)
-[]Orbital Launch Ring
-[]Re-Establishment of Orbital Shuttles
-[]Restart Orbital Cleaning Efforts
-[]Recolonization of the Inner Moon
-[]Establishment of Orbital Manufacturing
-[]Restoration of Satellite Networks
Groundside (-1800B after civgov deals)
-[]Expanding Trade Infrastructure
-[]Curach Garrison Program
-[]Department 4 Consolidation
-[]Department 6 Expansion
(Trade and Security)
-[]Civilian-Military Partnerships
-[]Expanded Military Scholarships
-[]Formalized Tech Transfers
-[]Superconductor Plants
-[]Inertial Fusion Test Facility
(Competativeness)
-[]Optical Computing Programs
-[]Dedicated Military-Electronics Plants
-[]Next Generation HEA Plants
-[]Pre-Construction of Orbital Components
-[]High Throughput CNT Production
(Jobs Program)
-[]Expansion of Inventory Management Systems
(More automation lmao)
 
7th Hex said:
It's, uh, painful to have to pass on so much of the foreign tech advancement opportunities, but with the PRLM being right there next to us in the Dead zone, with a declared absolute claim over the whole thing and funneling tons of their industry into the military to retake it I feel like we really shouldn't go for a total repeat of our previous rebuilding where we completely ignored military buildup for a while and then tried to rush as much of it as we could before anything happened. Especially as this time we have a much better picture of what we might be facing instead of blind guesses.
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Ironically, with the Sallies (what's their name for themselves again?) now thinking they have an "in" with us, it becomes considerably less likely that the PRLM will try something if it turns out that we have a handful of modern weapons to discourage a casual filibustering expedition. Because the Sallies aren't going to want the only moderately developed port in a 150-light-year radius to fall to an expansionist opponent.
 
We can already fight the highest tier corporate forces, so only states can threaten us. On the other hand, a state could easy steamroll us regardless of what ships we buy here. I think econ rush for one turn is a good idea, then with more XCU we can actually buy more meaningful armaments.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Ironically, with the Sallies (what's their name for themselves again?) now thinking they have an "in" with us, it becomes considerably less likely that the PRLM will try something if it turns out that we have a handful of modern weapons to discourage a casual filibustering expedition. Because the Sallies aren't going to want the only moderately developed port in a 150-light-year radius to fall to an expansionist opponent.
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Do we really want to rely on the Sallie government super much for our own protection though? Not out of any kind of nationalistic self-reliance or refusal to engage with the wider galactic community, but just that we already just signed one unequal treaty (if a whole lot better than it could have been) with one of the Xolotlan corporations, there is a massive amount of corporate capture in the Xolotlan government. I could easily see more unequal defense treaties or protection rackets being offered if they thought we were backed into the corner enough to go for them, now that we're looking at a full interstellar state aiming for what they see as their own territory rather than just a corporation that wants to keep good profit margins.
 
I'd really like a plan that keeps at least 1-2T for procurement, preferably more.
 
7th Hex said:
Do we really want to rely on the Sallie government super much for our own protection though? Not out of any kind of nationalistic self-reliance or refusal to engage with the wider galactic community, but just that we already just signed one unequal treaty (if a whole lot better than it could have been) with one of the Xolotlan corporations, there is a massive amount of corporate capture in the Xolotlan government. I could easily see more unequal defense treaties or protection rackets being offered if they thought we were backed into the corner enough to go for them, now that we're looking at a full interstellar state aiming for what they see as their own territory rather than just a corporation that wants to keep good profit margins.
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Well, the problem is that a state can crush us even if we go whole hog on nothing but boosting our military. We fought off a corpo invasion but it was by the galactic standards a tiny thing with outdated equipment, with a single brigade of obsolete tanks being the scariest unit. A determined state can chuck entire divisions of top of the line tanks in our face without breaking a sweat. Similarily, whatever ships we buy could more then likely be beaten by a singe modern, or even second line battlecruiser. We are, as of right now, a very tiny fish in a large pond, and while we do have potential for growth, it would be some time before we can stand up to the big guys on our own.
 
Yes, though I really don't think its worth cutting back on economic and technical development for it. We have a large army capable of beating back last gen Sallie divisions, as well as OFACs, submarines, Kelpies and anti-orbital lasers. If anything that can beat that invades us now, we are cooked no matter what we do.

We can also just, ask for more funding later a bit into the plan, as the economy hopefully recovers.

Anyway, anything we procure will become immediately obsolete in all likelyhood. I say we do dept 4 and 6, invest in economic development and play politics for the rest of this plan and maybe a procurement project if we can shake some money loose.

In five years, we will have a vastly more modern economy, students taught in foreign universities and our own, domestic institutions versed in foreign methods, as well as a vastly more competent and recovered industrial base.
 
The 003 tank and other equipment acquisition will be good to get some time still to get started on something that can go face to face with enemy equipment.
 
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So having received the information about local sophonts, I went back and tried to match them to the species described as invading the Lirrir here:
Blackstar said:
The first is a hard-skinned oxygen respiring quadruped with several adaptions for low oxygen use along with a carnivorous diet. All four limbs are fully capable of manipulation, indicating either a strong adaption to orbital operations, genetic modification, or a planet that was built around a wet wooded environment. The second species is far more exotic with an eight-limbed body plan covered in a coat of fur. Their biology is also oxygen based but their comfortable temperature range is effectively outside that of the first species. Musculature groups indicate that they likely developed as a form of ambush predators with a strong ability to climb and leap.
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I think this describing an Ascad and a Baslu respectively? First one might be a Ulmea instead. Just found it interesting
 
Vlad vonCarstein said:
So having received the information about local sophonts, I went back and tried to match them to the species described as invading the Lirrir here:

I think this describing an Ascad and a Baslu respectively? First one might be a Ulmea instead. Just found it interesting
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The two species of the Synod were previously identified as Ascad and Baslu here:
Blackstar said:
The actual empire backing what has been a small sect is indeterminate as the transmissions imply that the crew was taken aboard from three separate organizations that could be considered nation-states. Information availability on them is still limited outside what is currently assumed to be the stereotypes held by the investment officer and thus still necessitating further analysis. Both species involved are spread across the galaxy with the water-based reptilians known as Ascads while the furred ones are Baslu giving some names to those around the galaxy. All three of the involved nations are multispecies if only formally due to temperature and comfort limitations; worlds tend to be mostly single species. The state that the investment officer has insisted would give backing is a weak confederacy that has been established through the use of STL ships reconnecting-liberating-recovering worlds, with an unknown translation if their term for recovery is the same as conquest or if it remains a political fiction.
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As an additional note, the last sentence seems to suggest the Synod were also looking for backing from the PRLM?
 
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The People's Republic of Liberty and Mobilization COULD have been excellent comrades in the war on Galactic oligarchism, but alas they're more interested in petty revanchism so they can be the compredores to a dead empire. I only hope they see the true light of Galchobarism as the way forward and that they don't fight to the knife when we start clashing in a few decades
 
All I really care about is the army continuing to be involved in disaster response. It's a natural fit, at least using the US as an example.

The Coast Guard is a branch of the armed forces. When there's a domestic natural disaster, the National Guard is often called up. And when there's a foreign natural disaster, the Navy is able to provide a lot of logistical support.

If we're already training 2-4 million people to a high organizational and operational standard worldwide, and they have nothing better to do, why wouldn't we have them involved in addressing the very frequent natural disasters (that we caused)?
 
7th Hex said:
Do we really want to rely on the Sallie government super much for our own protection though?
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Well, obviously, NO, but it's going to be a long time before we have the sheer economic weight required to fight off a serious military invasion by some revanchist interstellar government. So the idea that there's a separate interstellar government that sees our presence as being worth fighting over, to the point where they might be persuaded to resist the first one, is still good news.

Rockeye said:
I'd really like a plan that keeps at least 1-2T for procurement, preferably more.
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Given how massively our weapons design is in flux right now, I think that paying heavily for more materiel beyond what the factories have already churned out for the war is a bad idea.
 
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We are some cursed combination of Vietnam (beat an imperialist power in a war, then started buying ng equipment from them to ward off more nearby imperial powers) and Taiwan (have the potential to shit out huge numbers of high end computing components along with more general exports) IN SPACE we're gonna have to play power politics and since we're not a great power it means we'll have to buy from the 600 pound gorilla that isn't backing the space north korea nearby that's says our planet is naturally theirs.
 
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Yeah I'm anti-procurement this next cycle honestly with so much tech transfer being a core goal of all our infrastructure projects and foreign trade policy, anything we procure right now will be hopelessly obsolete by the time it hits production and just need to be replaced again anyways. The war was basically a frenzied procurement spree that did 10-15 years of peacetime spending in 1, we plugged all the huge holes in our OOB and built up stockpiles of equipment that will last us quite a while. We've now got a basic navy, basic air force, basic orbital defenses, and basic army that are enough to defend our sovereignty against random pirates and shit. Trying to go from basic planetary defense force to something actually galactic quality in any of those sectors will take at least 5-10 years of frantically buying and stealing tech, then building the tools to build the tools, etc. so I think procurement is going to be basically nonexistent 46-50 AE and still a relatively low priority 51-55 AE before we should really invest in a bunch of domestic heavy equipment again.
 
On the unrelated note, there is a ton of Lirrir worlds anti-spinward (upward) of green-korea and yellow interstellar states. They could be targets of further Elf-Kurriuq diplomacy. Maybe they also would need some tech transfers to better fend off the green-korean "Synods".

(though on the other hand, if they would develop more industry and before they would develop enough "teeth", they would become more appealing targets for the space conquest...)
 
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After sleeping on it, I decided that I'm willing to just bump up to Expansive mining to get the Forex for the stuff I want without cutting the personnel based tech transfer so heavily.

Changes here from my previous plan based off Winning The Peace Cheaply are that I dropped Inventory Management Systems and Preconstruction of Orbital Components to pay for Expansive Material Sales, with the reasoning that we're already having problems from too much automation tech and the rest of the plan already does the orbital ring and manufacturing cost reductions, to buy the Textbook and Database Contracts and Technical Professionals to help us understand them with the extra 40B XCU Expansive will provide. This does leave us with an awkward 10B XCU left, but that does mean we only need to make at least 5B XCU from our mass produced AI movie to have enough to send out our students, and I don't think there's anything that would prevent us from sending them out to start taking classes mid-plan?

The Alternative would be to instead grab the Military Experts which I would also be perfectly alright with to really get a handle on our new ships beyond the manuals they come with, but they haven't really shown up in most plans so far in favor of the Students.

[]Plan: Mass Mining Makes More Money
-[]Formally Resign
-[]Civilian Recommendations
-[]Hard Cutbacks
-[]Four Million Army
-[]Stay on Reduced Benefits
-[]Peacetime Army
-[]Domestic Competitiveness Programs
-[]Technical Jobs Programs
(Leaves 3800B Or for infrastructure and procurement, ignoring civgov deals)
Forex (-650B Or)
-[]Expansive Material Sales
-[]Cryptographic Currency Program
-[]Mass Media Sales
-[]Hire Technical Professionals
-[]Hire Professors
-[]Textbook and Database Contracts
-[]Ehecatl Class Light Cruisers
-[]Next Generation HEA Powder Mills
Space Infrastructure (-1500B)
-[]Orbital Launch Ring
-[]Re-Establishment of Orbital Shuttles
-[]Restart Orbital Cleaning Efforts
-[]Recolonization of the Inner Moon
-[]Establishment of Orbital Manufacturing
-[]Restoration of Satellite Networks
Groundside (-1500B after civgov deals)
-[]Expanding Trade Infrastructure
-[]Curach Garrison Program
-[]Department 4 Consolidation
-[]Department 6 Expansion
(Trade and Security)
-[]Civilian-Military Partnerships
-[]Expanded Military Scholarships
-[]Formalized Tech Transfers
-[]Superconductor Plants
-[]Inertial Fusion Test Facility
(Competativeness)
-[]Optical Computing Programs
-[]Dedicated Military-Electronics Plants
-[]Next Generation HEA Plants
-[]High Throughput CNT Production
(Jobs Program)
 
7th Hex said:
After sleeping on it, I decided that I'm willing to just bump up to Expansive mining to get the Forex for the stuff I want without cutting the personnel based tech transfer so heavily.

Changes here from my previous plan based off Winning The Peace Cheaply are that I dropped Inventory Management Systems and Preconstruction of Orbital Components to pay for Expansive Material Sales, with the reasoning that we're already having problems from too much automation tech and the rest of the plan already does the orbital ring and manufacturing cost reductions, to buy the Textbook and Database Contracts and Technical Professionals to help us understand them with the extra 40B XCU Expansive will provide. This does leave us with an awkward 10B XCU left, but that does mean we only need to make at least 5B XCU from our mass produced AI movie to have enough to send out our students, and I don't think there's anything that would prevent us from sending them out to start taking classes mid-plan?

The Alternative would be to instead grab the Military Experts which I would also be perfectly alright with to really get a handle on our new ships beyond the manuals they come with, but they haven't really shown up in most plans so far in favor of the Students.

[]Plan: Mass Mining Makes More Money
-[]Formally Resign
-[]Civilian Recommendations
-[]Hard Cutbacks
-[]Four Million Army
-[]Stay on Reduced Benefits
-[]Peacetime Army
-[]Domestic Competitiveness Programs
-[]Technical Jobs Programs
(Leaves 3800B Or for infrastructure and procurement, ignoring civgov deals)
Forex (-650B Or)
-[]Expansive Material Sales
-[]Cryptographic Currency Program
-[]Mass Media Sales
-[]Hire Technical Professionals
-[]Hire Professors
-[]Textbook and Database Contracts
-[]Ehecatl Class Light Cruisers
-[]Next Generation HEA Powder Mills
Space Infrastructure (-1500B)
-[]Orbital Launch Ring
-[]Re-Establishment of Orbital Shuttles
-[]Restart Orbital Cleaning Efforts
-[]Recolonization of the Inner Moon
-[]Establishment of Orbital Manufacturing
-[]Restoration of Satellite Networks
Groundside (-1500B after civgov deals)
-[]Expanding Trade Infrastructure
-[]Curach Garrison Program
-[]Department 4 Consolidation
-[]Department 6 Expansion
(Trade and Security)
-[]Civilian-Military Partnerships
-[]Expanded Military Scholarships
-[]Formalized Tech Transfers
-[]Superconductor Plants
-[]Inertial Fusion Test Facility
(Competativeness)
-[]Optical Computing Programs
-[]Dedicated Military-Electronics Plants
-[]Next Generation HEA Plants
-[]High Throughput CNT Production
(Jobs Program)
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That looks nice but I think there'll be an issue saving so little money for procurement and also buying the cruisers. I'd expect at least 200-400B to refit them with weapons based on the cost of the wider but more familiar and accessible anti-orbital laser program.
 
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Dessard said:
That looks nice but I think there'll be an issue saving so little money for procurement and also buying the cruisers. I'd expect at least 200-400B to refit them with weapons based on the cost of the wider but more familiar and accessible anti-orbital laser program.
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We can figure out the fitting out with weapons over time, I think. It may take a year just to familiarize ourselves with the systems enough that we can even tailor weapons to fit into them.
 
Dessard said:
That looks nice but I think there'll be an issue saving so little money for procurement and also buying the cruisers. I'd expect at least 200-400B to refit them with weapons based on the cost of the wider but more familiar and accessible anti-orbital laser program.
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More than what @Simon_Jester said, I think buying used alien warships is the cheaper procurement option right now. Since now that we're on the wider galactic map now I think having at least some deeper space system protection is needed so we can't be poked at by just about any pirate or whoever with a decently sized ship while we try to rush a tech-up, and the OFACs seem pretty closely tied to the body their based on. If we aren't buying second hand alien warships for that, the other option is going through the whole procurement process to make our own from scratch, which will probably be both worse and more expensive right now. 200B Or of mining gets us almost enough XCU to buy the cruiser pair, or 100B Or of crypto fuckery can do that by itself, I don't think we'll be able to design and launch new warships of our own right now for anything close to that even without their own weapons too.

Once we've got our reconstruction mostly finished, a bunch of space industry back up, and digested a lot of our new techs, then by the next plan at the earliest IMO we can start considering whether to build native warships of our own. But even then foreign hulls might still be just qualitatively better.
 
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