- Location
- Nowhere
[X] Control 3 - Move the equivalent of 200 sheets of A4 paper. Can gather paper in a 20-meter radius. Paper can now be moved as fast as a fastball in baseball. (Cost 2 sparks)
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A Typical High School Life Filled with Supernatural Battles
- Thread starter shibosho
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
C'mon, people, if we hit the control train now we'll just keep coming up with excuses to not upgrade things later. We can have a diverse and useful power set now with everything at 2! Heck, we already were capable of dealing measurable damage to a golem last time -- one of our spikes managed to put a spiderweb of cracks in it, and that with just one hit. If everything is better next time we should have plenty more options!
- Location
- St. Petersburg
It is called specialisation. I don't get why people find it so vexing that a limited number of skillpoints can be distributed unevenly between the stats. Like, when creating a character and investing in Perception and Agility, do you often hear people lamenting not increasing their Strength and Endurance and how it limits their options?
I even thought the concept of min-maxing was popular on SV.
An all-rounder is a decent choice, but hardly the only one worth going for.
I even thought the concept of min-maxing was popular on SV.
An all-rounder is a decent choice, but hardly the only one worth going for.
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- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It is called specialisation. I don't get why people find it so vexing that a limited number of skillpoints can be distributed unevenly between the stats. Like, when creating a character and investing in Perception and Agility, do you often hear people lamenting not increasing their Strength and Endurance and how it limits their options?
I even thought the concept of min-maxing was popular on SV.
An all-rounder is a decent choice, but hardly the only one worth going for.
I am aware of the concept. I mean, min-maxing is popular here -- obnoxiously so, in my opinion. But why should that be the basis of my choice?
I want to take a different approach here. Our abilities, when used most effectively, will involve a hybrid of all of our skills. Over-specialization invites disaster given that it can leave us with critical shortfalls elsewhere, and I want our abilities to grow smoothly enough in sync for us to keep a good handle on them and how the various spheres of them interact with each other.
- Location
- St. Petersburg
Obviously, it needs not be the basis for your choice, that's why we are voting different things.
It is fine to have critical shortfalls to have a bit of extra edge somewhere else. That's what teamwork is supposed to cover. For now it's just Lucille, but I believe we are thinking about expanding theharem constellation.
We all accept the roles in, say, class-based systems come with their benefits and drawbacks. Say 'Sniper' or 'Healer Support' and you can imagine what the character is good and bad at. It does not make them inherently worse than a jack-of-all-trades.
It is fine to have critical shortfalls to have a bit of extra edge somewhere else. That's what teamwork is supposed to cover. For now it's just Lucille, but I believe we are thinking about expanding the
We all accept the roles in, say, class-based systems come with their benefits and drawbacks. Say 'Sniper' or 'Healer Support' and you can imagine what the character is good and bad at. It does not make them inherently worse than a jack-of-all-trades.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Obviously, it needs not be the basis for your choice, that's why we are voting different things.
It is fine to have critical shortfalls to have a bit of extra edge somewhere else. That's what teamwork is supposed to cover. For now it's just Lucille, but I believe we are thinking about expanding theharemconstellation.
We all accept the roles in, say, class-based systems come with their benefits and drawbacks. Say 'Sniper' or 'Healer Support' and you can imagine what the character is good and bad at. It does not make them inherently worse than a jack-of-all-trades.
That's fair, but we don't have a team yet, and have no way of predicting what they'll end up being capable of. Everybody's abilities at this stage are putative, and as this choice we've just voted on serves as an example of, even then we'll sometimes be on our own and away from teammates. We need to be able to stand alone.
My opinion, of course. At the end of the day I doubt the QM plans on throwing an unwinnable fight at us. Any path is likely feasible. I just find the generalist approach more interesting because of the above concerns.
InfiniteDaze
Too lazy to leave the house
- Location
- I wish I could stay
Hm, Lulu's power reminds me a lot of Domains from Lucifer and the Biscut Hammer.
A lot.
I wonder if she could also sharpen her constructs or harden them, maybe speed them up like bullets? Might require a whole lot of grinding though.
That is one versatile power.
A lot.
I wonder if she could also sharpen her constructs or harden them, maybe speed them up like bullets? Might require a whole lot of grinding though.
That is one versatile power.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Or we don't go retard, and HAVE NO Critical shortfalls, were good enough at everything THEN we specialize, having a zero basis in vital skills is probably one of the worse things to EVER do, Sharpness and hardness are Absolutely critical to have SOME skill in, not the bare minimum. Cause guess what? The edge means jack shit when someone can target our weaknesses. Besides controlling 100 paper doesn't mean much if we can only harden or sharpen like half at most.Obviously, it needs not be the basis for your choice, that's why we are voting different things.
It is fine to have critical shortfalls to have a bit of extra edge somewhere else. That's what teamwork is supposed to cover. For now it's just Lucille, but I believe we are thinking about expanding theharemconstellation.
We all accept the roles in, say, class-based systems come with their benefits and drawbacks. Say 'Sniper' or 'Healer Support' and you can imagine what the character is good and bad at. It does not make them inherently worse than a jack-of-all-trades.
Besides 'Snipers' and "healer support' still have THE OTHER SKILLS to an adequate amount. Their not practically non existent
Minmaxing works in video games because their VIDEO GAMES... (or board games w/e)
But this is a narrative, so min maxed characters are going to get their shit pushed in
Are we not immune to papercuts? I don't remember anything in the posts that said we are not immune... Though even if we were not, papercuts don't really happen
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NIghtmareNursery
Scheming Spectator
- Location
- Earth \ AU
[X] Form 2 - You can fuse pages together to make A3 sheets of paper. A construct made from paper can follow several simple commands and have set conditions. (Cost 1 spark)
[X] Sharpness 2 - 4 sheets of paper can be given a sharp edge. Sharpness lasts for three cuts. (Costs 1 spark)
[X] Sharpness 2 - 4 sheets of paper can be given a sharp edge. Sharpness lasts for three cuts. (Costs 1 spark)
[X] Form 2 - You can fuse pages together to make A3 sheets of paper. A construct made from paper can follow several simple commands and have set conditions. (Cost 1 spark)
[X] Sharpness 2 - 4 sheets of paper can be given a sharp edge. Sharpness lasts for three cuts. (Costs 1 spark)
[X] Sharpness 2 - 4 sheets of paper can be given a sharp edge. Sharpness lasts for three cuts. (Costs 1 spark)
... that is a terrible argument. Oh lets not go for the obvious best choice now and instead waste our potential by spreading it around to things that won't be as beneficial. After all if we pick something that gives better returns we will keep on picking the thing that gives better returns.
... yeah no. Considering that your saying one hit was good enough then your arguement supports going for control more then anything. After all control allows for *MORE* hits.
Control grants a better hit chance against enemies because they go faster. A *LOT* faster, on top of having more *CONTROL* over where they go.
Right now Control 3 is a better investment because it over doubles our number of units in our control and improves all of their basic capabilities. Meanwhile those other power ups that your touting only grant an effect similar to a buff to a very limited number of our units. I for one find having a higher unit cap, and better overall unit stat line to be a better investment in the early game. And this is the early game.
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Except Hardening which was required to hurt the golem, means that HE CAN'T use that control, in the last update with the training our pc had to drop control of all his paper except one to HARDEN IT. Making control probably the worse upgrade right now.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
That's unnecessarily inflammatory, first. Please let's be polite to each other.
One hit was not enough last time. It put a crack in the golem, yes, but we only did fatal damage via a limit break. The one hit we did last time was not nearly enough on its own. We need to amp up the power in our strikes. Beyond that, we need to think beyond simply overwhelming our opponents. If we upgrade everything we can have good techniques in everything and think creatively. We can have enough hardness and sharpness to make a single sheet of paper with the hardness of steel and an insanely sharp edge. That is valuable against clay, because even if it only lasts one strike -- and given metal's brittle nature, that's depressingly likely -- we can already have a swarm of several more on hand even without Control 3.
Beyond that, we can have semi-autonomous constructs. That...that's stupefyingly useful. Beyond that, we can now use A3 paper -- bigger and better, in other words, and given that we can control any paper of any size as quickly and dexterously as any other so long as it's covered by Control, that means we just have straight-up better weapons with no drawbacks, in addition to opening the door to bigger constructs -- which at this point, should they be made out of a single sheet, we can make as hard as steel.
Control 3 isn't the obvious best choice. It's an obviously advanced choice, and no wonder given that it's Tier 3. In order to see how the others truly stack up, we need to level first -- and that ignores the synergy that we can gain from creative use of techniques using many spheres of ability.
BBBence1111
Harbinger of Bad Luck
- Location
- Magyarország
Control 3 - Gives a higher number, speed, and gather radius to work with. With numbers: 200 pieces of paper going at you 100 miles a sec. That hurts.
Hardening 3 - Stronger or more slightly less strong pieces. 12 aluminium strenghts is nice, especally if we can switch them fast enough. We could also use them to block most attacks.
Form 2 - Bigger origami stuff that follows more commands. Nice and all, but not as much of an upgrade as we need.
Sharpness 2 - More sharp paper. Good and all but papercuts exist.
The reason I voted controll is simple. We might be attaked any time. Form and sharpness barely give uppgrades that are worth the point on their current level. We first need to get to a point where we can reasonably expect to fight off/get away from enemies, then go and pick up that utility/bonus strenght stuff.
This just makes it even worse and a power that we will rarely want to use if control wont actually grant a higher unit cap which is the entire point of the control power up.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
A papercut is significantly less substantial than what we already have -- a cutting implement that can slide through plants with ease is something else. With our current hardening and Sharpness 2, what we have is less a papercut machine and more a steel razor blade that we can fire with unerring accuracy. That hurts a lot as well, but with the possibility of doing more than simple papercuts. And constructs are worth the investment, even if we ignore the fact that each level of form gives us bigger individual sheets to work with.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Control is hardly worth it when our other things are still level 1, a tier 3 power is a a lot stronger than a tier 2 upgrade just by virtue of being a higher level. And really? Your comparing the sharpness upgrade to a papercut? a regular papercut means fuck all.
If we specialize in control now and forget the rest than were probably going to lose to almost every opponent that isn't a scrub...
BBBence1111
Harbinger of Bad Luck
- Location
- Magyarország
We can have 4 razorblades or 200 pieces of paper going at 100 mph.
Yes they are worth the investment. But not right now. If we could bump it up to lvl 3/4? Sure, I'd take it. But now we need something that keeps us alive. And a slightly larger bird won't do it.
I do not understand the way you connect these things. First, you state that Control is not worth it. Then you say that tier 3 is stronger.
A single papercut does in fact mean fuck all to a normal enemy. How about 200? Or 400? Or 600? Because that paper goes fast. We can turn them around. And go again.
Where did you get the idea that 1: We'd instantly forget that everything else exists? and 2: That by focusing control we'd lose to everyone?
Because both of those are straight up stupid.
We have a massive powerup and 2 minors alivable. We are also expecting combat soon. Obviously, we take the massive powerup and use the combat/training exp to get the minor stuff later.
Tl,Dr: Learn to prioritize. First something that keeps us alive, then those buffs that are nice to have.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
But the most we'll inflict with those are papercuts. I'm sure it'll be annoying, but against the enemy type we've already faced it's useless. It would be potentially effective against a human opponent assuming they didn't do something like turn their backs and let their clothing blunt the papercuts (even at 100 mph, something less than an ounce will not be doing much blunt-force trauma), but even then it would be inflicting papercuts. Or we can have a 16.5-inch-long razor that can be made as hard as steel. Or a 16.5-inch rod that we can fire with unerring accuracy, again as hard as steel. Or a semi-autonomous distraction construct made of an 11.7-by-16.5-inch steel-hardness sheet of paper to let us run the hell away to better ground. One that we could also sharpen the edges of to razor thickness. If we could crack a golem with 1st-tier abilities, imagine what a peregrine falcon as hard as steel and as sharp as a razor blade on every edge could accomplish in a full dive.
When will we have 3 points sitting around when the shiny shiny Control 4 is available? Because I can see this argument going exactly the same way then: why bother to use contructs when we can put them in a wind tunnel of paper?
There will always be something shinier elsewhere, especially when we've reached a higher tier in something else first. As I've stated above, though, we can do amazing things by thinking creatively instead of merely going for progressively higher levels of "throw all the paper at them!" Now, if we were a magnetism-controller and we were firing 200 lodestones at fastball speed with mental railguns, I'd be singing a different tune. But we're not. We're using paper, an offensively-handicapped substance absent our direct intervention. If we neglected everything in favor of Control 3, we could fire a month's supply of notebook paper, but only a maximum of four would be appreciably tough, one could be appreciably sharp, and the rest would be sheets of paper. Being effective with this power set demands our full creativity, and treating it like a blunt instrument will get us killed.
meganeshounen
*tips glasses*
- Location
- Far East Asia
Holy crap.
The heated discussion here already reminds me of Sage_of_Eyes quests in terms of character builds. You should be proud of yourself, shibosho.
(More of Gwen and Song's stories rather than Sheridan, mind.)
Anyway, I've given it more thought.
More control now would be nice, since simple constructs are still deadly.
The heated discussion here already reminds me of Sage_of_Eyes quests in terms of character builds. You should be proud of yourself, shibosho.
(More of Gwen and Song's stories rather than Sheridan, mind.)
Anyway, I've given it more thought.
More control now would be nice, since simple constructs are still deadly.