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A small fish in a infinite sea (SI).

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Also, with the planeswalker power source, she might learn the elemental's abilities/power with the shaman's training. She just needs the shaping/manipulating they (the elementals) do, not the power source.

On the other hand, they pull on land-mana across dimensions, so she might be able to pull on the land-spirit's mana the same way. Also, self-resurrection is awesome enough to learn even if it only works in a few places if using the power doesn't open you up to mind control. (which, admittedly, some people did fairly good fictions about with buffy-verse with the powers that be (evil) and witches, willow included).
 
Ryune said:
I was thinking more along the lines of what advantages having completely loyal elementals would have. No need to bargain for their power and, provided there isn't an upkeep it would practically be giving yourself a "free" spell repository. In the case that they do need constant upkeep then you have an ally spellcaster that is always on the look out and at least partly powered by the presence of their element.
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Think about what you're saying, how needlessly complex it is, and how the senior landscaper just looped that as immoral.

Creating Sophonts as disposable is bad. Creating Sophonts that are immortal and alter the spirit world across dimensions is also bad.

Having to reconnect to elements on each plain or trying so on a he'plymouth is just inefficient. Unless she can power shamanism on land mana alone she's wasting her time on everything but alchemy and general channelling practice.
 
Draconas said:
No one said she had to make sapient Elementals.
And even if she did, their nature means they are either already made of real matter or can transfer into it in a few seconds.
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Aren't they by definition sapient and reproducing? You'd be dumping a new metaphysical ecosystem corrupted azerothian old God cooties, that reproduces and fucks shit up when unbalanced.
 
Larekko12 said:
Aren't they by definition sapient and reproducing? You'd be dumping a new metaphysical ecosystem corrupted azerothian old God cooties, that reproduces and fucks shit up when unbalanced.
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That may be one of the reasons the Ancients messed with his mind in the Stargate 'verse, Planewalkers making stuff that screws up a universe may have already happened in that version of the Stargate 'verse. Or they might have seen that happen in a different 'verse. They are like that Victorian that brought grey squirrels to Britain.
 
Larekko12 said:
Aren't they by definition sapient and reproducing? You'd be dumping a new metaphysical ecosystem corrupted azerothian old God cooties, that reproduces and fucks shit up when unbalanced.
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Yes. They are all sentient.
All of them.
And the more they age the more they grow, and they spawn more from their element.
 
SemiSaneAuthor said:
That may be one of the reasons the Ancients messed with his mind in the Stargate 'verse, Planewalkers making stuff that screws up a universe may have already happened in that version of the Stargate 'verse. Or they might have seen that happen in a different 'verse. They are like that Victorian that brought grey squirrels to Britain.
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Aren't the ancients notoriously retarded? I mean what if he grows up realizes what happened comes back and guts metaphsysically.
 
spidermounky92k said:
Planeswalkers can already call mana from their lands across worlds why would spirits be different
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Because the Shamans (In the stories, and once again the shaman comic) asks the spirits that are already by their side, They literally push the wind, lifts the stone, heats the air by the spirits who are with them.
And the Elemental lords would not allow some small-time punk take their children with them.
 
Ahra said:
Because the Shamans (In the stories, and once again the shaman comic) asks the spirits that are already by their side, They literally push the wind, lifts the stone, heats the air by the spirits who are with them.
And the Elemental lords would not allow some small-time punk take their children with them.
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And creating copies would be immoral.
 
The Eromancer said:
I kinda thought Planeswalkers kinda STOPPED aging after they ascend? I mean that would fucking SUCK for Dawn being stuck as a 13 year old but still, I mean its not like Winter here kept aging did he? And if he's still aging should he start looking like he's in his 30's now? Or is there some wonky magic that tops them aging at their prime? Or only when they figure out they are immortal? This is actually rather annoying for me.
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In canon MtG Old Walkers where immortals since they were basically energy beings that took a physical shape, while New Walkers are basically ridiculously powerful mortals.

Hiver's walkers are unaging but can still be killed relatively easy.
 
The Eromancer said:
I kinda thought Planeswalkers kinda STOPPED aging after they ascend? I mean that would fucking SUCK for Dawn being stuck as a 13 year old but still, I mean its not like Winter here kept aging did he? And if he's still aging should he start looking like he's in his 30's now? Or is there some wonky magic that tops them aging at their prime? Or only when they figure out they are immortal? This is actually rather annoying for me.
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I'd guess it's the standard "stop aging in their prime" deal. Because Dawn aged normally and Winter didn't mention already being >30. But it's not explicitly stated.
 
ryuan said:
In canon MtG Old Walkers where immortals since they were basically energy beings that took a physical shape, while New Walkers are basically ridiculously powerful mortals.

Hiver's walkers are unaging but can still be killed relatively easy.
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so deadly is the blind extremities? I guess it's not straight physical cause it would be silly if he could get through it and say superman couldn't.
 
You know, it would be interesting if he visited a universe that had experienced planeswalkers in the past, and knew all about him and his kind, but hadn't heard from any of them in generations. So Winter Walks in, says "hi" and everybody immediately freaks the hell out. Any enemies he makes always hit him with everything they have, all the time. Any super weapons they were saving for a rainy day get brought out to play. Why? Because the last time they met a planeswalker was pre-mending, and so they all expect Winter to be a physical god. It would be hilarious.
 
Norgarth said:
Hiver, I spotted a typo in that last segment:




Didn't you (or was it someone else?) say that Shamans basicly just ask whatever elementals happen to be around to assist, rather than bonding with specific elemental spirits? If so, then Shamanism would work on any world that has elementals.

Regardless of whether or not Shamanism is useless to a Planeswalker however, Dawn is still going to continue her training because she's sticking to her promise. And since she appears to have not worked out that she's a Planeswalker herself, she has no reason to make decisions based on how to minmax that factor.
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I didn't and relearning how to commune with elemental on each and every planet even when they're might not be any is retarded.

It's a waste of time and dangerous to her and those around her and hover should tell her so. Though her not knowing she is is very. Silly when I'm sure hover would have at least told her especially when glory wanted to sac her.
 
While contacting spirits for her powers is not the most optimal or safe way by any means for Dawn, there is something to be said about learning to channel different energies.

Winter is (was?) mostly self-taught, and his foundation lies in an alternative system of magic as well: internal.

Dawn is learning how to borrow power from spirits in order to cast wildly differing effects. It is far from a clear-cut case that she wouldn't be able to translate to lessons into land-magic. After all, she gains a feel for different spells, different effects, applications of magic and channeling of magical energies even if that system fundamentally relies upon external beings. Casting a spirit-powered lightning bolt enough times might with a little experimentation and training very well be translatable to casting a lightning bolt with Land-powered magic.

The more important factor, I feel, is to make sure Dawn isn't too attached or psychologically reliant upon the external type magic and ready-made spells she is now learning.
 
I think some people are overestimating Winter's power by a bit.

He's probably a really powerful mage, way above average and a significant player in his own right, but he's not exactly at the level of the highest tier powers in WoW. Illidan used a ritual to crack a continent, Kil'jaedin demolished a city in moments with contemptuous ease, and the Burning Legions numbers are nigh infinite. Many of the faction leaders and main characters in the Horde/Alliance have similarly powerful feats.

The thread is titled "a small fish in a infinite sea". He'll definitely make a difference, but I really doubt he's going to just roll through and prove himself more powerful than anything here.
 
The Eromancer said:
Ahh the start of burning crusade, lots of fun stuff happened. On thing in particular thought at stands out is that old wandering raid boss that randomly attacked cities during the dark portal event. Giver should introduce himself to both the Alliance and the Horde by sloping his ass. Solo.

Kill highlord Kruul
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Kazzak. Kruul substituted him after the opening of the dark portal, because Kazzak took a promotion.

Also, don't forget the little detail of the bronze dragonflight, which would see tampering with the timeline in not a nice way.
 
The Eromancer said:
very true but remember what the Doctor said about messing with time travel, so long as you don't intentionally kill a specific person who'd important to time. "thrall, Jaina, Arthas, or basically any extremely important figure in any faction" which admittedly are quite a few people but for the most part Winter could get away with burning a legion or two of the Burning Legion and offing several "not really important cause they die to player characters (read: mooks)" baddies wouldn't upset any time lines, they'd just end up fixing themselves somehow.

About the only ones Winter wouldn't be "ALLOWED" to kill are already too powerful for him to take on by himself anyways. Except where the Scarlet Crusade is concerned, those Dread Lords could be killed that could completely upset how that all goes during the Litch King stuff, which however could still be allowed so long as what happens to the Scarlet Crusade doesn't end with them surviving AS the Scarlet Crusade, see? Like kill off the Dread Lords and expose them for what they are and turn them all into the Black Templars or something, so long as they don't "survive" as the Scarlet Crusade that interference would be okay. Cause the Scarlet Crusade is supposed to end, how that happens doesn't really matter.

Anyways.

Still think Winter can make waves for the better. So long as he simply doesn't kill anyone specific and as I said, most of them are already too powerful for him to take on by himself anyway.
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spidermounky92k said:
winter isn't a timetraveler
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Plus, MTG does have alternate timelines (example), meaning you can indeed get away with killing "Important people" because dun dun dun, ALTERNATE FUCKING TIMELINES. -_-
 
I wonder what patch the Warcraft he is in is running under, because that could make a huge difference in what classes he should or shouldn't bother to get a template to summon.
 
Or he could do the most stupid thing ever and enter the Marvel/DC cosmology. That's pratically a death sentence unless you're on the big leagues.
 
Having enough power gives him enough time to get the fuck out of those planes once he discover where he is.

Then again the Ash Expy on Marvel Zombies didn't triggered anyone going after his ass automatically. Then again, they were more preocuped with the whole "supernatural zombie apocalypse" thing going on.
 
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