OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Tally incoming:
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Let's take a moment to consider the virtues of Crimson Flare:
First, it spends four less Arete, over half the cost of a FB-advancement. At the rate we're accumulating the stuff we'll be able to take a 7-Arete option in short order. A martial or social victory over Avecarn should provide some good ones. It might be too much to hope for a second shot at The King Stands Alone since he's not fighting solo in this case, but there are other Sword Praxis advancements. That, or we'll be well on our way to saving up for an Evening Sky EFB and unlocking the Trinity bonus. We can't divulge the specifics, but it's rest assured Trinity's really good.
It's also an option that invests in our companions. We've got four of them (Verschlengorge counts!), not just Gisena, and recently picked up a squishy assassin to boot! Rank 7 blood-buffs are no joke. That Flare's the weakest option for the challenges immediately ahead of us is hard to deny, since it gates a lot of the benefits behind succeeding. But it also commits us to doing so, adds a mechanical incentive beyond the promise of nebulous treasure to ensure the thread votes to liberate the Azure Ring should a moral dilemma rear its ugly head.
Once we clear the Temple, then it's off to the races. All party members get their lifespan multiplied by four, +3 to all stats, +0.5 Rank to our human companions. We restore Verschlengorge and farm the adds he pulls on the way to Spherical civilization, using Shadowcord to close the tap if we need to recover. Aeira makes Astral Rift grinding much safer, an unexpected perk of her presence. Get Bloodwraith and as many Rank multipliers as we can lay out hands on, then heal Archduke Artriez from whatever doom he's laboring under with Sublime Transfusion and start turning everyone willing to work for us into Númenóreans.
And hey, with the Azure Ring guaranteed to accept Hunger's primacy, perhaps someday far in the future the thread'll feel confident enough to take Ruling Ring?
First, it spends four less Arete, over half the cost of a FB-advancement. At the rate we're accumulating the stuff we'll be able to take a 7-Arete option in short order. A martial or social victory over Avecarn should provide some good ones. It might be too much to hope for a second shot at The King Stands Alone since he's not fighting solo in this case, but there are other Sword Praxis advancements. That, or we'll be well on our way to saving up for an Evening Sky EFB and unlocking the Trinity bonus. We can't divulge the specifics, but it's rest assured Trinity's really good.
It's also an option that invests in our companions. We've got four of them (Verschlengorge counts!), not just Gisena, and recently picked up a squishy assassin to boot! Rank 7 blood-buffs are no joke. That Flare's the weakest option for the challenges immediately ahead of us is hard to deny, since it gates a lot of the benefits behind succeeding. But it also commits us to doing so, adds a mechanical incentive beyond the promise of nebulous treasure to ensure the thread votes to liberate the Azure Ring should a moral dilemma rear its ugly head.
Once we clear the Temple, then it's off to the races. All party members get their lifespan multiplied by four, +3 to all stats, +0.5 Rank to our human companions. We restore Verschlengorge and farm the adds he pulls on the way to Spherical civilization, using Shadowcord to close the tap if we need to recover. Aeira makes Astral Rift grinding much safer, an unexpected perk of her presence. Get Bloodwraith and as many Rank multipliers as we can lay out hands on, then heal Archduke Artriez from whatever doom he's laboring under with Sublime Transfusion and start turning everyone willing to work for us into Númenóreans.
And hey, with the Azure Ring guaranteed to accept Hunger's primacy, perhaps someday far in the future the thread'll feel confident enough to take Ruling Ring?
To reach him, she has to pass the defense perimeter. She cannot contact him in any other way.
People, I feel like that every argument for Gisena EFB is 'social'
Ambush - social
Astral beasts - social
Automatic defenses - social????
In several hours I expect the arguments to get even more ridiculous
Falling meteor - social
Explosion - social
Giant Robot - social
Hair loss - social
Proving NP=P - social
Curing cancer - social
Doom proc - social
Bold of you to assume that this was not exactly what he wanted. Eleven years of gruelling guerilla war and scores of dead companions were just his trial of whether The Hero is worthy of marrying his daughter, as is traditional for the Forebear clan.
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Rihaku
The Internet
Wow, an incredibly tight vote given the broad range of outcomes these three options represent! That said, I don't consider All-Defeating Stance to be a SORD option at its core, it's all-defeating after all! It's primarily a defensive / not dying option that also offers enormous social firepower and great general offensive power (Power of Ruin 5x applies to unarmed strikes as well, after all!). I guess one could classify it as a general stats / muscle wizard option; it also improves Hunger's combat synergy with Gisena by making his Forebear's Blade-derived powers immune to nullifcation, and gets you that sweet 5% Curse mitigation on top!
Crimson Flare is good, but much of its power is contained in post-Temple capability and non-combat / long-term utility as a whole, so it's almost unfair to compare the two in battle, physical or social! +++++All Stats is truly insane!
Crimson Flare is good, but much of its power is contained in post-Temple capability and non-combat / long-term utility as a whole, so it's almost unfair to compare the two in battle, physical or social! +++++All Stats is truly insane!
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Renaissance Woman almost certainly has more power in the short term, prior to Flare coming fully online. It's been explicitly stated to auto-win against the marshal, and "trivialize" infiltration of the Inner Ring.
An all this is not even mentioning how sweet it will be to receive the refund on ennobling, transfusion, and augment domain blood after we rescue the ring. While the other two cost Arete that we may not be willing to spend, augment domain blood does not and is more blood rank. Assuming I read how flare works correctly.
The point being, it is entirely probably that not only will we be getting all the other effects of flare after the azure ring is rescued but also refunding several picks and some Arete, which would be really amazing since it would allow another large leap in power.
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So the final battle was the normal family dinner and later a game of Monopoly gone horribly wrong. Catherine words to 'win is all that matters' have different meaning. Damn the Forebear clan is hardcore
What did the option do to you?
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Aren't people curious to see what a non-combat apocryphal proc looks like?
Maragas
Nothing to see here.
- Location
- Tree House
Now that changes things. You know what, with this I really have no preference left.
[X] Forebear's Blade: All-Defeating Stance
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare
[X] Renaissance Woman
Let the fairest win them all I say.
Monopoly? So the Tyrant was evil! If only they'd played a nice game of Pandemic...
Little did we know that Uchiha Madara was actually Rule 63 Eris...
It means that if we have actually purchased those options (we did not) we would have received the refund. To receive a refund for something, you have to buy it first.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
ADS lets us use Strength to replace Rank's role in combat, pushing us towards a stats-based approach and away from accretion and magic. If martial power, and even comprehensive enhancement of our being, is your goal then it's a dream option.
personally, I would prefer to pursue rank or findross as our main source of power and so prefer investing in the ring or Gisena. I think the descriptions for them in story, the lateral capabilities they provide, and the types of decisions they incentivize will make for a good quest.
Additionally, I think discovering deeper lore and interactions on those supernatural forces would be both satisfying and powerful.
personally, I would prefer to pursue rank or findross as our main source of power and so prefer investing in the ring or Gisena. I think the descriptions for them in story, the lateral capabilities they provide, and the types of decisions they incentivize will make for a good quest.
Additionally, I think discovering deeper lore and interactions on those supernatural forces would be both satisfying and powerful.
Maragas
Nothing to see here.
- Location
- Tree House
Let's hope the thread doesn't end up like Paris.
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
As for Crimson Flare, remember that it can power up Verschlangorge very quickly - enough to give us gunboat diplomacy as a backup, since Rank 7 Versch can probably just eat the Temple if necessary.
Given that this is a Rihakuquest, she's going to have worthy challenges eventually.
So, uh, can you see why this remark would make me really uncomfortable?
Calling a sidebar from the argument because this is a personal issue for me: "Mary Sue" has a couple of potential meanings, one of which is "power fantasy protagonist with no worthy challenges". But the other, deeply awful one, is "power fantasy protagonist who happens to be female, and should thus be reviled".
Given that this is a Rihakuquest, she's going to have worthy challenges eventually.
So, uh, can you see why this remark would make me really uncomfortable?
Rihaku
The Internet
If you missed it, get in the Discord channel while you can! This link is only good for 100 invites.
It was a joke about the argument for 'social' - Gisena is so beautiful that world itself bends backwards to accomodate her, even when it does not make sense.
For the meaning of Mary sue - sheesh, what forums have you been visiting? Anyone who thinks that is disgusting. No offense meant about the Mary sue.
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We called Aurelia a Mary Sue quite openly, I think. But there was no choice, we were the bearer of the Ring of Truth.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Think about the all stats boost ADS has. Remember Linear Halo? Intelligence, Wits, and Wisdom boost magical research ability
Per the most recent iteration of our char sheet, we have 4 intelligence, 7 wits, and 0 wisdom.
All Stats coverage description for context: A Simple Transaction I Original
If All Defeating Stance wins, we go up to 9(!?) intelligence, 12 wits, and 5 wisdom(I'm sure a lot of us have been craving wisdom points for some time). Given the fact we have a 30 percent all stats buff from Edeldross Adept that adds linearly to the 30 percent penalty from Uttermost tointelligence and wisdom, we even get the boosts to intelligence and wisdom at their base value if I understand correctly.
Edit: It turns out I had a reading comprehension failure and thought Uttermost penalized intelligence too.
For the Evening Sky and protection enthusiasts, All stats includes Protection. We've got 2 pluses of it right now. 7 if ADS wins, and the pluses are at their base value because Edeldross Adept.
Uttermost blurb for context on the penalties.
And then there's the (45%? all status buff we can have instead of a 30 percent one temporarily via advanced Edeldross enhancement)
the 1.15 is -.3 for the 30 percent uttermost debuff added to the 45 percent Advanced Edeldross enhancement buff. (Edit: the 45 percent is .45)
Intelligence = 9*1.45 = 13.05 (Edit: Changed this to 1.45 because there is no intelligence penalty in uttermost)
Wits = 12 *1.45 = 17.4
Wisdom = 5*1.15 = 5.75
Protection = 7*1.15 = 8.05
As an afterthought, our baseline charisma also reaches 12(7+5). 24 baseline against people weaker than us. Pluses are at full value because Edeldross Adept.
for how charismatic we are with advanced enhancement?
Charisma(Base) = 12*1.15 = 13.8
Charisma(Weaker) = 24*1.15 = 27.6
The synergy is great with the 2 Arete Charisma to protection blood buff.
We also get 5 LUCK. 5.75 when we're using advanced Edeldross enhancement.
There's not any mental contamination this round even.
Per the most recent iteration of our char sheet, we have 4 intelligence, 7 wits, and 0 wisdom.
All Stats coverage description for context: A Simple Transaction I Original
If All Defeating Stance wins, we go up to 9(!?) intelligence, 12 wits, and 5 wisdom(I'm sure a lot of us have been craving wisdom points for some time). Given the fact we have a 30 percent all stats buff from Edeldross Adept that adds linearly to the 30 percent penalty from Uttermost to
Edit: It turns out I had a reading comprehension failure and thought Uttermost penalized intelligence too.
For the Evening Sky and protection enthusiasts, All stats includes Protection. We've got 2 pluses of it right now. 7 if ADS wins, and the pluses are at their base value because Edeldross Adept.
Uttermost blurb for context on the penalties.
And then there's the (45%? all status buff we can have instead of a 30 percent one temporarily via advanced Edeldross enhancement)
the 1.15 is -.3 for the 30 percent uttermost debuff added to the 45 percent Advanced Edeldross enhancement buff. (Edit: the 45 percent is .45)
Intelligence = 9*1.45 = 13.05 (Edit: Changed this to 1.45 because there is no intelligence penalty in uttermost)
Wits = 12 *1.45 = 17.4
Wisdom = 5*1.15 = 5.75
Protection = 7*1.15 = 8.05
As an afterthought, our baseline charisma also reaches 12(7+5). 24 baseline against people weaker than us. Pluses are at full value because Edeldross Adept.
for how charismatic we are with advanced enhancement?
Charisma(Base) = 12*1.15 = 13.8
Charisma(Weaker) = 24*1.15 = 27.6
The synergy is great with the 2 Arete Charisma to protection blood buff.
We also get 5 LUCK. 5.75 when we're using advanced Edeldross enhancement.
There's not any mental contamination this round even.
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- Location
- Canada
A Wind Full of Knives analysis (805 Words)
Given the tendencies of the playerbase this is quite the understatement... Though I still hold some vain hope that the Temple taught the playerbase something and that the next time Rihaku offers us an option that scream "It's a trap!" loud enough to shatter continents the playerbase will know better than picking it. But any less loud than that? Like moth to the flame...
It's good to see Hunger trusting other human beings. And, yeah, Letrizia might nineteen but she still has an incredible amount of life experience, due to her circumstances.
Aeira is incredibly professional for her age, setting up an account with an escrow company, really? I really don't regret us going for her.
Yes, do please rein us in. We really need someone who can dissuade Hunger from the hair-brained schemes the voterbase put into his head... Why did everybody in our group just agree, when we decided to go visit the deathtrap that is the Temple, again?
This is a wise choice Aeira. This might seems like good odds but, in practice, this would just mean us paying her 10% less.
That's a good point but, on the other hand, how would anyone knows about any such leverage points? Unless they have some kind of divination ability, I suppose...
That would explain why she cares so much about money, a mystery that many have brought up when we first obtained information about her. And yeah, as I said, it's pretty unlikely that any of our enemies would ever learn about these facts unless they have some kind of divination ability.
Also a good point. If you're going to go far way from home with only one point of contact, make sure you can trust that point of contact.
That's incredibly convenient. If I couldn't trust her her power wouldn't work to connect us is difficult to beat when it comes to insuring than you can trust someone.
Seems that, despite her excellent level of professionalism, she's still a nervous teenager at heart...
Yeah, don't thank him yet Aeira, not before you've seen how much danger is involved... And, really, for all that you value this money a lot, Hunger is getting the better of this exchange. That value is completely useless to Hunger and you're going to get thrown into so much danger...
I wonder how they got to connect so much in only a day? They're acting like best friends despite barely knowing one another...
Such a powerful element! I'm kind of sad we didn't get to integrate it to our Evening Sky. I mean, not taking it back then does allow us to get an EFB right now, so normally I would say I have no regret, but if we end up going for Flare, the option less safe than just spending 14 Arete on Stances, and dying as a result, I will regret absolutely everything and drown in an unhealthy mixture of those regrets and pure concentrated salt. Please don't let this happen.
Yeah, Gisena is pretty intimidating, particularly post Sublime and is possibly about to become a lot more... And more improbable friendship between the two teenagers from the group. Seriously, what actually happened during that day of "infiltration" for them to become such close friends?
That's not really an upside, though... We can't get picks from monsters we don't fight! Though, would they even still give us picks at this point?
That could end up being an incredible understatement if we go for Renaissance! And don't worry, Hunger already have trouble talking plainly with ordinary people, given the Doom of the Tyrant...
You're a Progression-type Cursebearer, there is always something to be done! There is no capability beyond your reach to obtain, in time, as long as you survive. Of course this is only if you survive...
Yeah, it certainly shouldn't be beyond the power of Nullity to temporarily turn off superhuman appearance.
It's kind of hilarious how seriously Hunger seems to take those banters contest with Gisena. The fear that we'll be surpassed in this domain by Gisena is even infecting the playerbase! Those aren't fights with our life on the line, it's okay to lose! The fight against Avecarn, on the other hand, is a fight where our life is on the line...
Well... If you do manage the best result on your sorcerous evolution, your presence is about to become a hell of a lot more delightful! Seriously, for all that I would prefer ADS, Renaissance certainly wouldn't be a bad outcome.
It's good to have these occasional remainders of Might's Repose existence. It feels like such an unimportant and unconnected to anything else part of Hunger's power set at this point...
Hopefully, it doesn't actually end up being the final leg of your personal journey Lord Hunger...
Unless we die, of course...