A Simple Transaction I

[BrainInAJar]

Would Cut Through be a power type EFB or potential type?

Click to shrink...

Cut Through - A balanced Power/Progression type EFB with extremely strong scaling into the lategame, but which is heavily build dependent

Click to shrink...

It's the same as Once and Future, while Ruling Ring is much more Progression biased.

 

[Prospalz]

Would Cut Through be a power type EFB or potential type?

Click to shrink...

Hybrid type, leaning potential.

Wait, I am wrong, nevermind lol

 

[formalAI]

Wild speculation time! In the original AST, Rihaku said something that hasn't stopped bugging me since then:

There is nothing interesting in reading about someone who exploits a recursive loop to become infinitely powerful, thus the universe was not designed that way.

Click to shrink...

But isn't that precisely what the Accursed managed to do with his Infinite Singularity Husk? And what could possibly enforce such a thing? Well, we know that the Accursed has copyrighted not only the Imperial Praxis but anything running on the same principles:

It's parallel construction, essentially. They use the same principles so are functionally identical, though some of those principles can't be accessed without the allowance of the Accursed.

Click to shrink...

And you can be sure that if the Accursed bothered to copyright the principles behind the Lathe of Heaven, a fortiori, he'll have done the same thing with the Infinite Singularity Husk. There also seem to be evidence for a force that systemically suppress recursively improving intelligences. From researchers in dangerous fields just randomly losing interest in their work in Terrascape

Months passed, and while certain researchers in the fields of synthetic biology and artificial intelligence suffered a rapid loss of interest in their work, nothing terribly alarming emerged from Enoch's corner of the world.

Click to shrink...

to the Interdict of Cognition

The Foremost could harness them for countless tasks, bend realms both physical and Astral to their whims, apply the Interdict of Cognition that immunizes us from rampant intelligences, and so much more!

Click to shrink...

to nobody succeeding in sacrificing mental aspects in Terrascape

There are those who have attempted to sacrifice mental aspects instead. But, they usually run into a dead end or attempt brain surgery on themselves. The first group give up, the second group die.

Click to shrink...

We also see some seemingly arbitrary limitations on extracting and combining the magics of the Voyaging Realm

The Voyaging Realm will tolerate some level of exploitation, but industrial-scale extraction of magics leads it to act out in increasingly apocalyptic ways...

Click to shrink...

and on sharing Vitalist lore past a certain point

Vitalists who share their work past a certain point - knowledge of the Heart Replacement, an admittedly sophisticated procedure in almost all cases - tend to die. In fact, no Vitalist who has released his Heart Replacement into public knowledge has survived more than a few months. And Vitalists who seek to pursue that practitioner's Edifice, even without releasing more techniques, don't have a great survival rate either.

Click to shrink...

which Rihaku has already mentioned was a major plot point and could end up being relevant in future quests

This may be relevant in a future story, so I won't give the answer directly, but it is possible to figure out with what's been posted so far. It requires connecting quite a few obscure dots, but this was actually a major plot point.

Click to shrink...

Put it all together and it feels to me that the Accursed destroyed the ladder to heaven after using to rise to the very top of the omniverse. There are problems with the theory, though. The Interdict of Cognition seems to have needed to be enforced by the Foremost (though the Foremost do seem to have a connection to the Accursed...) and I'm not sure why Vitalist lore would be so dangerous.

But I feel like there is something there, there are just too many seemingly arbitrary limitations floating around for me to dismiss it all as a coincidence. And we do know, for a fact, that the Accursed limits not only access to the Imperial Praxis but anything based on the same principles, which is kind of a dick move if you ask me. Understandable, but still kind of a dick move.

Let's move away from my wild and probably completely wrong speculations, to focus on the current vote. Slice Fate is absolutely incredible but with an EFB in sight and with so many people so committed to getting it, I just can't vote to spend 7 Arete. Sorry Letrizia! As for the action choice, it would be great to do the straightforwardly heroic thing and lifting the Siege, but given the state we're in and the danger in making our condition worse, it's probably more reasonable to just go to school.

[X] Investigate the Schools
[X] Fierce Quickening

 

[Xalvitor]

The push towards Cut Trough is abstolutely insane. There has been what, 30K words at this point? Maybe more? And the sheer amount of art. Just damn...

Anyway, if rune king works with Cut Trough, would linear halo? That would be absolutely broken and hilarious, so probably not. But just imagine Stranglethorn+Linear Halo+Rune king. Maybe add Super Juggernaut Undead Chimera on top of it, and we would have an absolutely insane growth rate.

Actually, if Linear halo turns agi and might into magic-relevant stats, and Super Juggernaut Undead Chimera could give 100% to both, would it have an multiplicative effect? like, our strenght is doubled, turned into int, and then our int is doubled again by SJUC. I'm 99% sure that it doesn't work like that, since it would be hilariously broken, but i think it's funny to think some broken system interactions.

 

[Byzantine]

The push towards Cut Trough is abstolutely insane. There has been what, 30K words at this point? Maybe more? And the sheer amount of art. Just damn...

Click to shrink...

Closer to 40k.

 

[Fumbles]

Good lord guys, that's a lot of content. I'm busy on weekends so it's been hard just to catch up! I admit I skimmed some of the reactions, cause damn.
[X] Investigate the Schools
[X] Vigor Itself

So: I'm very powerfully tempted by Cute Cut Fate, and I think it would be a fantastic pick. That said, it does seem as though a 25 arete pick may actually be in our reach. While it's a mixed potential/power pick, I think the upfront advantage offered by Cut Through is probably still greater than one reroll every day.

School because highschool memes, magic systems, and Conjured Blade's grand charge.

I want to follow up on some speculation vis a vis using the Moon ring, and powering up Evening Sky. With Uttermost, our mantle took a hit to some core attributes, disincentivizing us from putting picks in it. With the Ring, we got no room in our panapoly for it.
I expect there to be some kind of sacrifice or consumption option to bind the ring to the mantle, and solve that problem. There's some obvious aesthetic synergy between the Evening Sky and the Lunar ring.

Plus, it'd make a great brooch!

 

[George]

But isn't that precisely what the Accursed managed to do with his Infinite Singularity Husk? And what could possibly enforce such a thing? Well, we know that the Accursed has copyrighted not only the Imperial Praxis but anything running on the same principles:

Click to shrink...

The infinite singularity husk is a description of the scaling granted to Progression Cursebearers; nowhere is it stated that it's a mechanism at all, much less the source of the Accursed's power. Training and slaying enemies are also not examples of recursive loops; those would be something like if we could sacrifice abilities for power and then retake them and got more out of it than we put in. (like sacrificing A Thousand Cuts for 8 Arete, then rebuying it and doing that over and over)

 

[George]

Good lord guys, that's a lot of content. I'm busy on weekends so it's been hard just to catch up! I admit I skimmed some of the reactions, cause damn.
[X] Investigate the Schools
[X] Vigor Itself

So: I'm very powerfully tempted by Cute Cut Fate, and I think it would be a fantastic pick. That said, it does seem as though a 25 arete pick may actually be in our reach. While it's a mixed potential/power pick, I think the upfront advantage offered by Cut Through is probably still greater than one reroll every day.

School because highschool memes, magic systems, and Conjured Blade's grand charge.

I want to follow up on some speculation vis a vis using the Moon ring, and powering up Evening Sky. With Uttermost, our mantle took a hit to some core attributes, disincentivizing us from putting picks in it. With the Ring, we got no room in our panapoly for it.
I expect there to be some kind of sacrifice or consumption option to bind the ring to the mantle, and solve that problem. There's some obvious aesthetic synergy between the Evening Sky and the Lunar ring.

Plus, it'd make a great brooch!

Click to shrink...

I expect that would be inefficient; it's a Ring of Power and you can only bear one. (without shenanigans which would cost Arete or picks) I think circumventing that would cost much of the Ring's power, which we can keep by giving it to Letrizia or Gisena

 

[Wolfy]

Closer to 40k.

Click to shrink...

In the grim darkness of Rihaku Quest, there is only salt.

 

[formalAI]

The infinite singularity husk is a description of the scaling granted to Progression Cursebearers; nowhere is it stated that it's a mechanism at all, much less the source of the Accursed's power.

Click to shrink...

We first saw something called the Inifinite Singularity Husk in Most High and it was definitely something that Odyssial was trying to create:

Odyssial initiates, and makes progress on, the Infinite Singularity Husk.

Click to shrink...

And we've received a ton of hints that the Accursed was once Odyssial...

 

[Fumbles]

I expect that would be inefficient; it's a Ring of Power and you can only bear one. (without shenanigans which would cost Arete or picks) I think circumventing that would cost much of the Ring's power, which we can keep by giving it to Letrizia or Gisena

Click to shrink...

You're likely right. I wanted to put the idea forward as an option for speculation, and because a mediocre yield immediately may be better than an investment pick, depending on our situation at the time.

Likely, if we do manage to get the Lunar ring, we'll be in a great position to hand it off to Gisena or Letrizia or Verchlengorge for no immediate gain.

 

[vali]

And we've received a ton of hints that the Accursed was once Odyssial...

Click to shrink...

Some say there are shards of the Exalted Dream... perhaps there was one such shard where both Lathe of Heaven and Peerless City were completed on time. Perhaps the Fairest's warning, in conjunction with such fearsome preparations, sufficed for the Lord Strategos to show those traitor stars just how far their presumption had grown, and how laughable their treason. And perhaps with the genesis of the Infinite Singularity Husk, the Most High snapped the bounds of that mere Primordial creation as a child outgrows his cradle, to venture across a realm of progression without limit or surcease.

But who can say, really? Such things are only Dreams after all.

Click to shrink...

...

I expect that would be inefficient; it's a Ring of Power and you can only bear one. (without shenanigans which would cost Arete or picks) I think circumventing that would cost much of the Ring's power, which we can keep by giving it to Letrizia or Gisena

Click to shrink...

Nameless was given the option to wear the Rings of both Truth and Might (diagram and cultivation). As for whether this is a good idea or not, that's a separate discussion, and I've already posted my thoughts on it.

 

[Sickul]

[X] Investigate the Schools
[X] Slice Fate - 7 Arete

Wow Slice Fate is absolutely insane. I kind of feel it was put in to slow down progress for the EFB. Even still, 1 reroll a day is the ultimate godstat. It synergies extremely well with any form of power and goes with our risky-so far playstyle.

Nevermind that it makes Letty into a Kobayashi sorceress.

As good as EFB is, I feel like this may be a one time offer that's too good to pass up.

 

[Hirorubie]

[X] Investigate the Schools
[X] Slice Fate - 7 Arete

Wow Slice Fate is absolutely insane. I kind of feel it was put in to slow down progress for the EFB. Even still, 1 reroll a day is the ultimate godstat. It synergies extremely well with any form of power and goes with our risky-so far playstyle.

Nevermind that it makes Letty into a Kobayashi sorceress.

As good as EFB is, I feel like this may be a one time offer that's too good to pass up.

Click to shrink...

Ahh, wise decision friend. Soon our army will swell to unstoppable minorly significant proportions!

 

[Xalvitor]

Unless i misuderstood, the Accursed uses the closest thing to an universal constant as basis for the cursebearer powers and praxis, that universal constant being the Infinite Singularity Husk, which might actually be something that he created. Anything derived from it is probably constant in any universe, or close enough.

 

[Fumbles]

Odyssial's plan was to destroy the entire universe and rebuild it to create a more just world, hospitable for humanity. If the Accursed is a triumph of that timeline, then he probably followed through.

The idea does make me wonder what he did with all those soulsteel-capsules full of Creation's people. Does he have a world out there, or is he still trying to reach his standards of perfection?

Honestly the biggest gap in Odyssial=Accursed is their personality, but we only ever saw Odyssial interacting with others in the context of the Primordial war, and we've only seen the Accursed when he's offering his bargains. Not exactly conclusive.

I'd really like to think it's Ulyssian, who found another way. The Accursed was his cool superhero name to start with.

 

[Enohthree]

Worth remembering that we no longer have form of rage, and thus we no longer have any insurance against death by someone who can break past our first form if we roll poorly now that second form is significantly worse. Fighting good can't save us if we just use the extra fighting to fight people we have the same risk level against as before.

 

[agumentic]

And just to drop another one to the pile of fanworks. I still firmly believe that we can earn enough Arete for both Slice Fate and Cut Through, and I encourage everyone to vote for the former and make fanworks. Making it possible is entirely in our hands.

Spoiler: Impunity reaction, 2231 words

Impunity

Click to shrink...

Every reaction's free wordcount - how is the title related to the update? Here we can go for an obvious "Hunger and his Doom of the Tyrant can act with impunity towards the border guards", or we can go deeper - our entire vacation should be so much easier than the Temple that Hunger and the party can act with impunity and get away with it. Not that it would be a good idea, because actually getting our conditions healed instead of getting kicked out of the resort would be nice.

They set out on vacation, at last departing the barren wastelands of the Temple exterior in search of a place to recuperate and unwind. With Gisena still meditating in Verschlengorge's cockpit, it was up to Hunger to man the Armament's shoulders and keep a lookout for incoming Astral denizens. Though Verschlengorge was considerably more powerful than it had been, still it was too wounded to be a match for Hunger himself, and that showed in the strength of its Astral beacon. Assaulted by mediocre monstrosities, Hunger did not so much as exert himself on the first day of the trip, each incoming wave dispatched before it had finished emerging from its portal.

Click to shrink...

Well, judging by the power of the monsters, 4.5 Rank version of healing Ver won. On the one hand, I am sad that it did. On the other, it suddenly seems clear that we want Praxis and want it ASAP, so more Arete is very good, especially as there are other options to spend Arete on, so I guess it's all worked out great in the end. I am also pleasantly surprised we that we got a pick out of such weak enemies at all.

It was curious that the Astral invaders were never dispirited by failure, their resolve apparently unbreakable. Though the beasts clearly weren't mindless, they attacked with suicidal vigor, even into so utterly hopeless a situation as this. Perhaps they weren't cognizant of the fact that Verschlengorge had bodyguards at all.

He wondered what dynamics governed the process of their attraction to the Armament, subsequent organization and transport to the physical realm. If Verschlengorge's Astral Beacon did not advertise the existence of any being around it, then he could understand their obliviousness at the presence of a bodyguard. If its presence was fundamentally antithetical to the values of the Astral beings, that would justify their heedless courage.

Was there some way to exploit this? Could he incrementally increase his own power by slowly healing Verschlengorge and ambushing the steadily stronger creatures that came for it? Possibly, though the method was somewhat unreliable and slow. The former was tolerable, the latter potentially disqualifying. At all times the Apocryphal Curse loomed over them; speed of growth was critical to outpacing its relentless escalation.

Click to shrink...

Even Hunger considers getting Ver's rank up to farm efficiently! It really is a good idea, but the Arete cost when there's so much other stuff on the line is unbearable. Perhaps Augment Dominion: Blood should be considered as the pick option that doesn't spend Arete? Probably too late to change now, and I don't even want it personally.

Hunger's musings on the nature of Astral Beasts attacks are pretty interesting as well. What does guide them to such consistent and suicidal attempts, if they are not mindless? I don't remember whether those in the Prototype Armor are also subjects of such attacks. Perhaps it is the power of the Curses inside the Armaments? But we did eat the Decimator Affliction inside Ver and attacks are still on, so probably not.

Live, and grow strong. The very act of the former would necessitate the latter. In that sense it was a convenient yoke, one that impelled him ruthlessly towards his ultimate goal: vengeance against beings whose power was too great for his current mind even to fathom.

Click to shrink...

Ah, the eternal debate - LIVE gang or POWER gang? Paradoxically, made only stronger by the fact that those goals support each other. We can only hope that all our joint efforts will allow us to achieve the synthesis between these two and reach the bastards that are behind Hunger's suffering. Everyone will be very sad and salty otherwise.

Cutting through another group of Astral invaders, Hunger frowned. There was some disquieting symmetry to the whole situation. The invaders were driven by an inescapable need to destroy Verschlengorge and were blind to the strength of its defender. Was that not an uncanny mirror of his own situation with the Imprisoned Ring? He too was compelled to reach it, and similarly ignorant of its ultimate guardians. Was it even possible for him to prevail here, when the Temple had stood unconquered for millennia before? What if its final defender was simply so powerful that no amount of strength accumulated against its lessers would suffice to challenge it? He himself was the same to these beasts.

A simple massive discontinuity in combat strength would serve as a hard deterrant against invaders like himself or Ber, whose growth was rapid but fundamentally incremental in nature. A meta-contextual moat of sheer ability. The torment of the Ring was nearly unbearable, but even more unbearable was the prospect that he could fail.

Click to shrink...

Well, that is certainly a disquieting hypothesis, doubly so because it sounds so true. I hope that the Wandering Magus will eventually find her way to us and that her divination is enough to learn about the power of the Inner Temple defenders because going in blind might really not be fun. Especially since we consumed our safety option for more power and might not get a reroll here. If "one giant wall to stop every R-type in their track" is the tactic Temple defenders choose, our best hope if just run into without info is them underestimating just how bullshit is the Cursebearer Progression backed up by the Ring of Power. Which is not entirely unlikely, because the speed of our progression is really bullshit, but I do not like on counting on our enemies' mistakes.

And yet the prospect of unnecessary delay filled him with contempt. They who only challenged foes that were unquestionably weaker had discarded the most crucial strength of all. Stagnation of the self, a slow diminishing of the vital spirit, was their inescapable fate, for in their hearts they knew themselves to be cowards.

Click to shrink...

Hm. I wonder how much of that is Hunger's own opinion, perhaps forged in the fire of his war against the Tyrant where he was the weaker side until the very end, and how much is that Forebear's echo, perhaps literal? Maybe they are similar enough right now there isn't a need to split hairs on things thought in the meditation.

"Doing some meditation of your own?" Letrizia asked. Verschlengorge's primary eyes turned in his direction, shimmering gold with fleeting specks of blue.

"Was it that obvious?" He propped the Forebear's Blade against a gun turret and rose to meet her gaze.

"It's good to be self-absorbed once in a while, but you can brood when we're not on vacation. Just take a look at this scenery!"

Click to shrink...

Despite Letrizia being the one in the driving seat, I imagine their roles reversed - Hunger is a surly dad driving the car to sea - or I guess hot spring, in our case - and just looking at the road thinking his own thoughts, while Letrizia excitedly looks around and has tons of fun just from looking at all the different landmarks.

The Armament strode through high, sheer canyons of water-sluiced stone, rock of pale violet and ochre that gave way to densely-packed layers of compressed crystal, glittering like stained glass beneath the desert sun. The pulverized dust of stone and crystal formed great sloping lines through the ancient riverbed, sharp color against the stark barrens, the fingerpaint trail of some primordial colossus whose knuckles were the mountain-range, its glacier-sheets his nails.

He nodded. "It's pleasant. Shall we stop for lunch?"

Click to shrink...

Ha-ha, the combination of the long and beautiful description of the scenery (seriously, it's very nice and very easy to imagine, props for that) and Hunger's laconic "It's pleasant" is hilarious, even it's a venerable straight man technique. Come on Hunger, let up a little, just have a bit of fun! Though my reaction to the beautiful scenery is exactly the same, so maybe I shouldn't throw stones.

"Hehe. You said it, not me!"

"The words of a woman on the precipice of an eating disorder."

Click to shrink...

Wow, Hunger really does not hold his verbal blows. I guess all that social jostling against Gisena taught him that his main strength is bluntly pushing through with all his bearing? Certainly draws parallels with our martial build, all offence there and all offence here.

"Verschlengorge's refrigerator is almost empty," Letrizia remarked glumly, pitifully but dutifully enjoying her share.

He closed his eyes. "I was going to surprise you, but I ordered some specialty meats from a group of merchants I met in the Outer Temple. When we return, we'll pick them up."

Click to shrink...

Hey, it's nice to finally learn what the hell happened at that fade to black with merchants. I always believed Hunger didn't murder or rob them or anything, but the explicit confirmation he didn't is good. I hope that we will finally visit the Encampment one of these days, I still think that fishing (ha!) for allies there would be a very worthy investiture of our time. Perhaps we will be able to find the Magus there if she doesn't find us on her own?

I will await the description of the party enjoying these speciality meats when they return to the Temple.

"Really!?" She perked up. "You're the best!"

She leapt towards him, tightly hugging his neck. "I take back all the bad things I said about you! This is wonderful! You're the best bodyguard ever!"

He patted her head fondly. "I was right. You do have an eating disorder."

"But you've never seen an eating disorder this cute!" Gisena was perched dangerously on the canyon's edge, legs swinging freely. "Too bad, if only I had some way to capture this moment forever..."

Click to shrink...

Gisena is one hundred percent correct, Letrizia is very cute. Which is, by the way, another reason to pick Slice Fate - it offers not just one, but two Letrizia pluses! Let us indulge the cute, in addition to other good stuff.

"I don't care what you say. Nothing can make me unhappy right now." Humming merrily to herself, Letrizia returned to consuming her sandwich, now with ravenous, uninhibited bites.

"Were you always like this, or did piloting Verschlengorge make you this way..."

Click to shrink...

Honestly, enabling Letrizia ascension into Devouring Sorceress strikes me as a bit tacky after this display. But magic is magic, and magic is quite rare, so I'll take tacky and let the girl do sorcery and pilot a giant mech at the same time. Those are not conflicting archetypes either, which is important because getting solid aesthetic matters.

Their idyllic repast was interrupted, however, by the appearance of a matte-gray flying vehicle overhead. He frowned. Its angular lines were almost reminiscent of Verschlengorge's own armor...

Gisena oohed appreciatively as it made a perfectly vertical descent to land near the lip of the canyon. Armored figures emerged swiftly, carrying lean, mechanized rifles alongside torso-length polarized shields.

Click to shrink...

Hm, is it the first time we are seeing Gisena's appreciation for tech? It is a pretty nice addition to her character, in this case. If it is not, then maybe I need to reread the quest - we don't have that many characters for me to start forgetting their traits.

"What the..." Letrizia frowned. "That's Empire military surplus. Who are these guys?"

"Stay behind me." Hunger rose, Evening Sky a cloud of menace behind him.

Click to shrink...

Hunger's protectiveness is endearing to see. And very in character - losing more people even after the war is over would really hurt him, I think. We should endeavour to keep our allies strong like by getting them magic okay no, let's not beat that horse to death before I even get to it.

One of the more finely-maintained armors approached, gun slung towards the gun. "You there! Who are you, and what are your intentions towards the Elixir Sovereignty?"

"Elixir Sovereignty?" Letrizia raised a mildly amused eyebrow, looking as if she were restraining a laugh.

Click to shrink...

Hey, it's a simple name! They make Elixirs and they are sovereign, everything fits. Sure, it might overblow their importance, but it's not like they are a completely irrelevant backwater or anything. They even manage to withstand a siege by a creature that would be a bit of a challenge for Hunger to beat, maimed liver or not.

"We don't have any intentions for you," Hunger said plainly. "You came to us."

"You are impinging on our northeast border," the armored figure replied. "With what appears to be a Imperial Armament. I apologize if we overreacted, but we came to the Voyaging Realm to break free of the Empire's reins. Even if you possess an Armament, if you seek to deprive us of our liberty, know that we will resist your incursion to the last."

"Your border means nothing to me," Hunger shrugged. "But I have no intention of killing you unless attacked."

Click to shrink...

A confirmed Tyrant proc - an irrelevant one, sure, but it just hurts me a bit that we have no way of mitigating it for a while, if ever. It's fine in rugged colonies that don't care for the rules overmuch (Though we still might get kicked out if it procs at a bad time), but I fear what will happen when we get out of the Voyaging Realm and into mainland civilization. Better pick some charisma and Rank so we can just push through with the sheer force of the personality, I guess.

"Hmph. These guys must have made it deep into the Voyaging Realm before I was stationed here. I've never even heard of them." Letrizia frowned. "Separatists. I'm surprised they're still alive."

"Enemies of yours?" Hunger asked, idly spinning the Blade.

She shook her head. "Not really. Technically I guess they're traitors to the crown, but they're harmless enough. Maybe we can trade with them? Could be a trial run for your mercenary work in the future."

Click to shrink...

I wonder if there are many such separatist colonies out here? Or at least if there are many attempts to get one going, because establishing a colony that doesn't die in the next few years seems like a much bigger challenge than just establishing a colony at all. And how much attention of the central government do they catch?

"I see. Probably best for you two to negotiate, then. I'll stand behind you and look menacing."

"Of course, that's a bodyguard's job, after all."

Click to shrink...

That is nice and all, but I do have to wonder how long such a state of affairs can continue? We will eventually have to rule ourselves, after all, and that will probably involve negotiation we can't offload. Vigour Itself is our friend in these situations.

Gisena walked over to the armors, disarmingly beautiful, the picture of wide-eyed naïveté. "Oh my, such miraculous devices! Excuse me, do you mind if I take a look? What an incredible rifle! I've used kinetic sidearms before, but this one appears to be plasma-powered. It must be tremendously more effective. May I see it? It's just that I've never encountered such advanced technology before in my life..."

Hunger blinked. He'd expected one of her usual ploys, but no. She really was just enthusiastically studying their machines.

Click to shrink...

NEEEERD. Or, well, at least future nerd, because Gisena currently doesn't know enough about how the machines work to really nerd out. Armour enthusiast, perhaps? In any case, I can only encourage learning more about how weapons work. There's always a lot of effort put into it, so it's fascinating to learn how exactly was that effort applied.

Hunger's surprise probably means I didn't miss anything earlier, which is nice.

Time for the vote options!

[ ] Hot Springs And Go - Trade the pearl for two nights' of suites at their premier hot springs resort. Comes with all-you-can-eat room service. [+.75 Arete, 70% Condition Healing, 30% Double Healing]

Click to shrink...

Simple and clean (and healing), also has the advantage of giving us +0.75 Arete when we want it. But apparently is too simple, which is understandable enough - other options offer more interesting stuff.

[ ] Lift the Siege - Semi-treasonous or not, these were still her fellow countrymen. As they are beset by a zombie-monster apocalypse, bred by some sort of super undead, it's only fair that her super-juggernaut undead chimera show it who's boss. Lord Hunger is always on about needing worthy opponents to grow stronger, anyway. The separatists, overjoyed with her magnanimous intercession, will gift the party with hot-springs vouchers for life and all the gourmet food and military surplus hardware that the girls could ask for. [Fight the Rotbeast. Worth 3 picks and Premium Vacation at the resort if you prevail.]

Click to shrink...

Lift the Siege, which is my personal choice - 3 picks and Premium vacation sounds good to me! "Somewhat High" is the challenge I am willing to accept and Premium Vacation might be luxurious enough to give another whole update, which would great for Arete generation - not entirely serious here. Oh, and we save a lot of people from death, which would probably help Hunger relax.

[ ] Investigate the Schools - There had to be a reason Verschlengorge brought them here, and through her connection with the Armament she felt it lay among the peers of her age group. Evasive as the separatists have been, still they would not keep her from the truth. She was Verschlengorge's pilot, who had devoured system-spanning fleets and withstood supernovas, who had trawled the Astral nebulae and conquered their Sovereigns and stood astride the hungry dark of a naked singularity. Even that invincible specimen of common matter had quailed before the greater devourer then. What was a... high school... to the likes of her?! [If successful, gain access to the magic system of those born within the Elixir Springs. You can still visit the Hot Springs later.]

Click to shrink...

I am honestly not sure why investigating schools is so popular? I mean, another magic system can be great but it would probably cost Arete we want to save, is something that we can emulate with Praxis and is entirely roll dependent anyway. Is it because of Letrizia in High School update? I won't lie, that is a pretty good reason, but it doesn't outweigh a fight that will save people and give us power for me. The chance of any other complications is probably quite low, too.

You have about 9.5 Arete. You've received 1 pick from slaying the monsters attracted by Rank 4.5 Verschlengorge. Alas, they were simply no match for a blade infused with uttermost strength.

Click to shrink...

That's a lot of Arete. We need more, though. But, more importantly, that shows just how much Arete we generated in two updates - we were at 4.3 two updates ago and bought a 2 Arete option. Even discounting +1 Arete pick, that's still 6.2 Arete generated in two days, two days without people deploying their strategic omake and art reserves. Is it really that hard to believe that we can earn 14.5 Arete in two or three updates if we put our everything to do so? Let's not forget that coming options might well earn more Arete - hell, there's an option that offers more Arete right now, even if it's not being picked. Let's not settle for a lesser reward here, let's aim further beyond, put in the effort and win the ultimate prize!

The options themselves:

[ ] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear - Cloud-shadow of the Forebear's might.
Legendary strength and speed, and the resilience to exert them. Can be taken multiple times. [+Might, +Agility]

Click to shrink...

Our old friend left hanging for some time. Understandable, considering we have generally better options for the same pick price.

[ ] The Ring of Power - Dominion - 2 Arete
A ring of power does not exert influence casually. It has its own will, its own preferences, and if that will should be inseparable from its owner's, its sway thereby shall be greater for it.

Select a domain of influence. While acting within its domain, [Ring of Power] effects are substantially less taxing and more potent; the effects of this can be abstracted as follows: treat the owner's Rank as if it somewhat* higher for related actions. You may select this advancement multiple times, choosing a different domain each time. If multiple domains apply, their bonuses do not compound.

*+0.5 if Low, +.25 if Mid, +.1 if High.

The available domains for Hunger are: War, Passion

Click to shrink...

Ah, how quickly the tide turns. Just yesterday we were all for aiming towards Ruling Ring, but today the lust for Praxis consumed everyone's minds. Also, the War domain should probably be edited out, since we already bought it.

[ ] Fierce Quickening - The absurd violence of Blood unleashed. Let all that falls within its dominion be spilled, if it be in service to the Ringbearer. Adds [++Agility, +Wits] to the bonuses from Quickening, subject to the usual conditions. Can be taken up to 3 times.

[ ] Vigor Itself - The primordial might and glory of Blood resplendent. Let all who witness its form tremble, and be subject. Adds [++Might, +Charisma] to the bonuses from Quickening, subject to the usual conditions. Can be taken up to 3 times.

Click to shrink...

The options that are better than the Echo! One of them is winning right now, which I dislike, but generally, those are cool options we really should pick when we have a chance. I like Vigor more than Quickening, though, because we will really need raw Charisma to push through the Tyrant, even discounting ++Might. Eh, +Wits is fine as well, I guess?

[ ] Augment Dominion: Blood - The world-wielding will of the Ring.
Treat the wielder's Rank as if it were (.5 Low/.25 Medium/.1 High) higher for purposes of the [Ring of Power] effect applied to the Blood domain, increasing its potency and versatility. Repeatable, but costs 1 more pick each time.

Click to shrink...

That's a cool option! It's +Rank in a pretty wide domain, and it would be quite helpful for healing Ver without spending Arete! Honestly, I'd rather have people unite behind this option if they wanted a 0-Arete pick to win.

[ ] Evening Sky - Opalescence - The soft light of evening before which all attacks falter.
Improves defensive parameters. [+Protection]

[ ] Evening Sky - Iridescence - 2 Arete - The sharp light of the stars before which all malice is lessened.
+Protection, +Charisma. Expands the range of effects subject to the Evening Sky, allowing it to passively weaken almost all forms of magic. Even Nullity itself can be once withstood before the Sky recedes.

Click to shrink...

Evening Sky has really been left hanging. Unfortunately for it, Rihaku took time to sink Opalescence chances of winning this vote, so it will probably be left hanging until we earn enough picks and Arete to buy Pearlscenece. Which, considering we have discounts for two EFBs, does not seem like it'll happen soon. Poor Evening Sky-chan.

[ ] Exalted Spirit - 2 Arete. Conjunctional [Hunger, Evening Sky]. Mind made vigorous as the body. Gain +Int, +Wits, +Wis, +Cha, -Heartlessness, while in a form with physical blood. Allies under blood enhancement gain +Int, +Cha. Blood enhancement requires physical blood.

Click to shrink...

A formerly popular option that just didn't pick enough momentum here, since it spends Arete while not being very good. Well, I am sure it's time will come soon enough, we are not going to be always rushing towards Praxis.

[ ] Slice Fate - 7 Arete. Conjunctional [Forebear's Blade, Letrizia]. By unity with thy implement, cast off the chains of Fate and seize destiny with thine own two hands. +1 re-roll per 24 hours for Hunger. Enables Letrizia to become [The Devouring Sorceress]. ++Letrizia, +Gisena.

Click to shrink...

And the final thing itself. Yes, 7 Arete is a lot, and yes, I know you people really want Praxis before we get back to the Temple. But it's far from impossible for us to earn enough Arete to buy both, and if we lose this option right now we might never get it again. Rerolls are incredibly important and make practically anything much safer - battle, social, exploration, fishing, you name it. And while we will be able to develop equivalent techniques with Praxis, I do not think that doing so in a style that is explicitly all about effort will be easy or will happen soon! Increasing the strength of our allies and our relationship with them is also pretty valuable. Come on, just consider it, we already have 40k words in fanworks, perhaps even more - Is 14.5 Arete really such a big number?

As promised, blurbs for the two winning 25 Arete options:

Click to shrink...

Blurbs, everyone's favourite thing. Description of cool powers is really nailed here.

[ ] Super Juggernaut Undead Chimera - 25 Arete

Defining Advancement. If chosen, you may have no more than five Defining Advancements.

Super Juggernaut - The character may manifest an Armament Shroud even if they are not Rank 9+. His Pressure has no influence outside the Shroud. Within the radius of the Shroud, the character's effective Pressure is massively intensified, massively increasing the difficulty of opposition to him and allowing for the manifestation of character-unique effects.

If the character is already Rank 9+, halve the effects of Tiredness and Exhaustion on him and double his Shroud's effective radius and any numerical values in his Shroud effects. Manifesting a Shroud is taxing to the will.

Undead Chimera - Gain the memetic benefits of undeath without the penalties. Immune to most poisons and diseases, not hampered by the loss of most internal organs, no need to eat, breathe, drink or sleep. For each type of undead the character can be said to represent (no more than five), choose one Attribute to apply a +100% bonus to, or increase his current Rank by 10%. Attribute bonuses affect present and future levels. You may stack choices, but each consecutive stack reduces the value by half. Thus, choosing AGI twice yields +150% AGI, and choosing Rank twice yields +15% Rank.

Click to shrink...

I wondered before whether this pick would be worthy of its super cool name, and it was. It gives us +1 free Defining Advancement slot, allows Hunger to turn into a giant mecha and gives him undead powers with no penalties. And if he becomes Undead Chimera, he can double 5 attributes (or increase the rank by 10%). It really is worthy of the cool name, and I hope we get it one day. Just need more Letrizia pluses.

[ ] Cut Through - 25 Arete

Add the character's Willpower to his effective Might and Agility. Elevate the character's sword techniques by one step along the Infinite Singularity Husk.

The character may develop a set of techniques that are equivalent to those of the Sword Praxis, that sliver of the Royal Praxis focused on techniques of the blade. If a Cursebearer, the character may eventually develop techniques equivalent to the Imperial Sword Praxis instead. Naturally, almost any conceivable effect can eventually be realized even through the medium of swordplay, if one's canvas is the Imperial Praxis itself, though the strengths and weaknesses of the Praxis continue to apply.

Click to shrink...

Praxis. Imperial Praxis, even. I don't even need to say anything more, the mad rash of fanworks to get enough Arete for it says everything for me.

It would be nice to know just how much Arete we have right now, though. Knowing how much effort would be necessary for us to get both rerolls and Praxis would clarify things.

 

[Enohthree]

Actually, Slice is highly useful to us right now as well!

It doesn't matter what wins, we're doing the 70%/30% single or double healing check regardless.
A reroll means that the 30% chance to heal two things instead of one jumps up to 51%, making it more likely than not that we're getting the rarer reward.

A 21% increase to healing utility alone would be great. But Slice isn't pigeonholed into that role, it's a fungible benefit that can dance between utility to combat to Tyrant odds to encounter rates so long as we don't overtax it. Being akin to 'all stats' isn't because it only has so much +stat benefit, it's because it's an action dependent bonus of significant size that can be what you need it to be each day.

 

[Lealope]

And none of that is at all meaningful compared to the dangers of the Temple, not in the way that would change something. A reroll would not save us if we get dogpiled by Gondar, his buddies and whatever dread magi exist in the Inner Temple but Cut Through very well could. And considering we're going to fight them immediately after the vacation is over, going by Hunger's commentary this update, we can't afford to delay.

It sucks, sure. But it sucked even more to pass up on Null Slice and Gardener's Hallow. That's just the nature of this place.

 

[Box Lunch]

A 21% increase to healing utility alone would be great. But Slice isn't pigeonholed into that role, it's a fungible benefit that can dance between utility to combat to Tyrant odds to encounter rates so long as we don't overtax it. Being akin to 'all stats' isn't because it only has so much +stat benefit, it's because it's an action dependent bonus of significant size that can be what you need it to be each day.

Click to shrink...

Yep! It's only seeming weakness would be that it rewards decisive singular actions, which we're not... super good at.

 

[George]

We first saw something called the Inifinite Singularity Husk in Most High and it was definitely something that Odyssial was trying to create:

And we've received a ton of hints that the Accursed was once Odyssial...

Click to shrink...

I've never found those hints credible and it's been 5 years since Most High; Rihaku appears to have repurposed the words

The issue is that some are thinking of exponentiation only in the first value.

It would be more correct to say that the level system abstracts exponentiation across the entire gamut of conceptual escalation. For example, in the Nasuverse there is "raw physical power," and "conceptual power." In Exalted there might be physical, conceptual, and perfected power. A Cursebearer's progression represents higher levels of power first in the physical realm, then the conceptual, then the realm beyond, then the realm beyond that, and so on and so forth... that would be "2nd derivative" of escalation. Then there is the "3rd derivative" of escalation whereby the rate at which additional realms are breached accelerates with level density. Then the 4th derivative, etc... it might be called an infinite singularity husk of sorts.

Click to shrink...

Nameless was given the option to wear the Rings of both Truth and Might (diagram and cultivation). As for whether this is a good idea or not, that's a separate discussion, and I've already posted my thoughts on it.

Click to shrink...

That was an EFB that temporarily manifested it; I'm not sure it translates to just picking up this second ring and popping it on our finger - we certainly won't have an extra 25 Arete for it if that is what is needed.
I don't recall what you've said on it and it's hard to search for comments on it since most of what's said about a 'ring' is about the Ring of Blood
I felt like the original reason the idea of Gisena wearing it got traction was that Rihaku warned us of obstacles to us claiming it but it's difficult to find the relevant posts.

[ ] High Hand of the Norn [Fate, Battle] - Straining against the uttermost limits of the Diagram, treading the Logos into Truth's embrace, the caster manifests the unquestionable apex of his art, distilling the very dictates of Fate into a prayer-strip swirl that solidifies around their ring finger. No longer the subject of Fate, now they are the master, for the purview of the Diagram is dominion through comprehension: to see one's Fate is to be bound by it, but to see all Fates is to bind it in turn.

The coalescence of all Fates is nothing less than an Age, and the summation of an Age, is nothing less than a Ring.

-[ ] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs] - Acquire this spell. While this spell is active, the caster manifests the Ring of the current Age upon their finger.

Might's Ring is a band of red gold, unadorned, but set it upon the finger and its inscription blazes like fire: To might alone, is given the power to decide who shall rule.

Power -

+3 Full Cultivation Stages' worth of power: mental, physical and spiritual.
Reflexively crushes esoteric effects within of which the wielder would disapprove.
Targets all effects in general vicinity whose origin is weaker than the wielder.
Unhindered use and generation of Cultivation energy in all realms and under all circumstances.
With effort, can replicate any Reality Effect the wielder has crushed.

Even a mere mortal wielding the Ring of Might would be a god-king amongst men, capable of withstanding a nuclear weapon.

Corrupts -

Gain superlative affinity for Titanic Cultivation, ability to derive the mightiest variation of each Stage.
Unsuited for Immortal Cultivation.
Power is coveted. Others tempted by the Ring's presence exhibit the worst tendencies of Cultivators.

To witness the Ring is to see power itself made manifest, and it inspires the same reckless desire.

Click to shrink...

 

[Box Lunch]

It sucks, sure. But it sucked even more to pass up on Null Slice and Gardener's Hallow too. That's just the nature of this place.

Click to shrink...

Eh, Cut Through's only +7 Echoes at base. At the rate of stats-to-progress we've seen, that will get us to the firm center of Mid-Temple, or half-dead at its edge. It's the techniques we'll develop that make it awesome.

More to the point, re-rolling an encounter means a lower odds of getting swung at by another Unerring Blade. A more controlled approach to the Temple improves our chances of surviving and overcoming it far more than another power-up that'll get out-scaled before we finish. Especially since with this vacation, we can't reasonably expect to complete it before To Boldly Go ends!

 

[Enohthree]

And none of that is at all meaningful compared to the dangers of the Temple, not in the way that would change something. A reroll would not save us if we get dogpiled by Gondar, his buddies and whatever dread magi exist in the Inner Temple but Cut Through very well could. And considering we're going to fight them immediately after the vacation is over, going by Hunger's commentary this update, we can't afford to delay.

It sucks, sure. But it sucked even more to pass up on Null Slice and Gardener's Hallow too. That's just the nature of this place.

Click to shrink...

Yep! It's only seeming weakness would be that it rewards decisive singular actions, which we're not... super good at.

Click to shrink...

Honestly even considering that it has decent odds to save us. I brought up fighting old man Wizard and Breach the Middle in my argument earlier, both were significantly more dangerous than we needed to do even if they weren't the highest of danger possible.
50/30/20 split roughly for 'no injury, grievous maiming, death' respectively.
It would have been a flat 25% increase to our chances of winning a 3-4 pick fight both times, with attendant reduction in harm for the other options.
75/11/4 split roughly for the same rewards means that we can leverage our current level of risk taking (that is currently outscaling the Apocryphal Curse mind you) into something much more reliable. It doesn't translate into direct power of course, but an extra 3-6 picks without injury plus an additional ~10% scaling boost to all physical combat no matter how far we advance with the extra healing we can pick up now can be converted into power really quick.

 

[agumentic]

A reroll would not save us if we get dogpiled by Gondar, his buddies and whatever dread magi exist in the Inner Temple

Click to shrink...

Considering both the possibility of us encountering such party and our performance in battle against it depend on the rolls, I think it very well might. Besides, this is not an either one or the other situation, we can get both in time for the Temple.