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A Simple Transaction I

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Wolfy said:
But, on the other hand, current 7AP choices are not very exciting. I don't want to sink bunch of Arete into Iron Curtain/Juggernaut combo, Stances feel very underwhelming, Maw is somewhat pointless at this point etc. Pearlscence would be nice tho.
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I'm not voting for saving AP right now, but I guess that since Rihaku (which, I know, is only as reliable as he wants to be in the moment) told us we want to get Hero-Defeating Chance, there's a chance Bearic has been farming for Rank specifically (or at least focused enough on that to out-Rank us considerably). Just a hunch, and not much ground to stand on, but it would explain why we would need the Hero-Defeating Stance and why saving for it would be a good idea.
 
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[X] Vacation
[X] Vigor Itself

I suppose de-pointifying Hunger's elbow is fine, too. Blood picks are awesome and Arete-free, so I can't feel any guilt for picking them!
 
S A V E gang, it's your time to shine.

Unelemental said:
Cut Through is supposed to be even better than the Perishing Blade, much as I find that difficult to imagine.
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I don't think it's necessarily better than the maximum skill level of Hiltless but it's definitely way better than Arthur's "cut through any material of finite durability" attainments and possibly stronger than the Monarch's level of conceptual powers too. Considering it's an upgrade to Thousand Cuts, it would also apply to literally all of our attacks through First Blade, including our blade projections and so forth, at zero cost. Even if it was just at Arthur's level, that's still more than enough to shred pretty much anything other than an Armament so long as we had the stats to even tag it.

The fact that it's shiner than that leaves me frightened and vaguely aroused at the thought of seeing its blurb.
 
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Rihaku said:
But is a Vacation really the best place to encounter one...
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I'm not sure where else we'd get one? Healing Verschlengorge doesn't seem like it would produce one, Slacking Off definitely won't, I guess encampment might?

The thing is, getting a magic system usually requires Arete or a 3-4 pick option. Or both. Vacation is good for Arete generation. If we went to encampment... I guess if we don't spend Arete this vote we'd be close to a 7-Arete. The question is, would a fishing contest offer a magic-focused option? Because all the encampment votes are also fishing votes.
 
Honestly the best argument for picking up Dominion is simply pick efficiency. Ruling Ring is 4 picks and 18 Arete away, and that's hard to save up for all at once. On the flipside slowing doing it piecemeal when we can afford it is okay, and getting it down to 3 picks 16 Arete away means the main gate keeper of it becomes Arete, which Vacation is the option designed to generate.
 
[X] Vacation
[X] The Ring of Power - Dominion
-[X] War

There is significant value in precomitting to an option, thus giving direction to build votes instead of just continuing to muddle around grabbing whatever is shiniest at the moment. Continue working towards the Ruling Ring build, picking up parts of the EFB piecemeal when offered and saving Arete for it when not.

Focussing our efforts on one EFB, then another, is far more efficient than splitting our efforts across several EFBs with some ancillary detours along the way.

Get the Ring, get reality warping, heals, and ++Progression. Leverage ++Progression into saving Arete for Cut Through while still staying ahead of Apocryphal. Then, do whatever we want with absurd power and progression scales.

This is the true path to the shining tomorrow!
 
We don't really need to force ourselves into buying Domain option out of some notion that it will also commit us to the EFB. Doing so only makes sense if we know we can afford to precommit. We can look for 1-pick opponents anytime, so if we have the Arete to spare, we can always do it later. Meanwhile if we need some other high Arete options at some point, this decision would hobble us.
 
[X] Vacation
[X] The Ring of Power - Dominion
-[X] War

Oops, I thought ring was way ahead, switching to ring so it has a chance.
 
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[X] Visit the Encampment
-[X] Do Not Visit the Fishing Contest
[X] Vigor Itself

Fine, fine, let's be financially responsible and not excessively exert ourselves. Still, it'd be nice to talk to new people for a change! Check out the camp culture, pick up the food we bought for Letrizia, see if there's any untapped value to be extracted before we mop up the Middle Temple. The other R-Type was useful versus Vanreir, Gabrielle and the Brutes existed, it's possible we'll find someone who's relevant.
ImperatorV said:
I'm not sure where else we'd get one? Healing Verschlengorge doesn't seem like it would produce one, Slacking Off definitely won't, I guess encampment might?
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Philosopher's Wreath can unlock any magic system we've interacted with, the mercenaries and assorted adventurers will expand our selection. I think even our brief brush with Bearic counts.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by runeblue360 on Jun 19, 2020 at 7:12 PM, finished with 319 posts and 53 votes.
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Orm Embar said:
[X] Visit the Encampment
-[X] Do Not Visit the Fishing Contest
[X] Vigor Itself

Fine, fine, let's be financially responsible and not excessively exert ourselves. Still, it'd be nice to talk to new people for a change! Check out the camp culture, pick up the food we bought for Letrizia, see if there's any untapped value to be extracted before we mop up the Middle Temple. The other R-Type was useful versus Vanreir, Gabrielle and the Brutes existed, it's possible we'll find someone who's relevant.

Philosopher's Wreath can unlock any magic system we've interacted with, the mercenaries and assorted adventurers will expand our selection. I think even our brief brush with Bearic counts.
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You know what. Sure.

[X] Visit the Encampment
-[X] Do Not Visit the Fishing Contest
[X] Vigor Itself
 
Put off spending picks and Arete on the EFB we're closest to, despite now being the optimal time? Great!

Start splitting picks and Arete between an even greater number of EFBs, despite our clear inability to commit to anything? A winning strategy!
 
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Unelemental said:
We don't really need to force ourselves into buying Domain option out of some notion that it will also commit us to the EFB. Doing so only makes sense if we know we can afford to precommit. We can look for 1-pick opponents anytime, so if we have the Arete to spare, we can always do it later. Meanwhile if we need some other high Arete options at some point, this decision would hobble us.
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But the whole point of this vacation is an opportunity to save Arete. The fact we are not facing anything critical right now makes it the perfect time to invest in it. In a critical situation, Preeminence is much better if it only costs 7 Arete and a single pick. Dominion by itself isn't much, so it's something we can afford here.

Come on people, we will never save for an EFB at this rate. Literally nothing is at stake right now! If we can't spend it even then, we never will. Progressing even this much towards it is valuable on its own. Don't let devil advocacy lead you astray.
 
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BrainInAJar said:
But the whole point of this vacation is an opportunity to save Arete. The fact we are not facing anything critical right now makes it the perfect time to invest in it. In a critical situation, Preeminence is much better if it only costs 7 Arete and a single pick. Dominion by itself isn't much, so it's something we can afford here.

Come on people, we will never save for an EFB at this rate. Literally nothing is at stake right now! If we can't spend it even then, we never will. Progressing even this much towards it is valuable on its own. Don't let devil advocacy lead you astray.
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In a critical situation we should be looking for the best ways to survive rather than force ourselves into Preeminence. If we can afford the Ring after this, we'll take it. If not, then something else was clearly more important, so saving shouldn't be a consideration.
 
It should be interesting to see how the Temple responds to having a significant chunk of their military force killed.

It's probably nonstop panic in there, people rushing around, assembling troops, trying to figure out what happened. I think that they aren't confined to the Temple, and are capable of sending out out an army. The huge Temple doors aren't for letting armies in; they're for letting armies from the interior out.

Meanwhile, Hunger is trying to decide if he should go vacationing or fishing or just doing nothing at all.

If vacation wins, there's a decent chance we come back to find the encampment a smoking ruin.
 
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Unelemental said:
In a critical situation we should be looking for the best ways to survive rather than force ourselves into Preeminence. If we can afford the Ring after this, we'll take it. If not, then something else was clearly more important, so saving shouldn't be a consideration.
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Dominion: War is a full quarter of a Rank boost to all types of combat, and will open up even more power combat options, if how taking Blood went is anything to pay attention to. This is comparable to any of the other 1 picks available. And now is the perfect time to do it: we aren't under immediate threat at all while on vacation, so moving towards our most significant long-term investment makes perfect sense.

Yes, if we end up with 7 Arete in a bad situation, like we have been, we can simply spend it on something like Hero-Defeating Stance. That's no reason to purposefully avoid taking its precursor now, especially when it actually has value.
 
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[X] Visit the Encampment
-[X] Do Not Visit the Fishing Contest
[X] Vigor Itself

This has the best odds of getting mage stuff, I think.

On another topic... I have a question. Everyone's always saying we need to save for an EFB. The thing is, Nameless didn't get any EFBs until very late into his adventure. Also, we're Progression, so we're inherently less reliant on Arete then Nameless was on BP, since we have another method of advancement via picks.

What makes it so that we "have" to get an EFB as soon as possible? Wouldn't it be better to cover all our bases, ensure we're safe, and then get an EFB?
 
vali said:
It should be interesting to see how the Temple responds to having a significant chunk of their military force killed.

It's probably nonstop panic in there, people rushing around, assembling troops, trying to figure out what happened. I think that they aren't confined to the Temple, and are capable of sending out out an army. The huge Temple doors aren't for letting armies in; they're for letting armies from the interior out.

Meanwhile, Hunger is trying to decide if he should go vacationing or fishing or just doing nothing at all.

If vacation wins, there's a decent chance we come back to find the encampment a smoking ruin.
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Man, good thing we'll be gone while exertion would seriously mess us up then.

Edit:
To make this somewhat less of a shitpost, while something might indeed happen, I don't think it's quite that likely to see massive mobilization.

From what we know the inner temple involves significant degree of political maneuvering and scheming and several different houses.
Moving a bunch of your forces out to deal with intruders bears a significant risk of your rivals taking advantage of that, so it's probably not actually all that trivial to just put together an army or even replace the outriders cause, unless the threat is actually an existential one for the civ, which the exile getting himself killed just before they had to reevaluate him for entry doesn't necessarily indicate, the more pressing existential threat to yourself comes from the inside.
In fact, Van's death is probably just someone on the inside dealing with loose ends just before his possible return, so it's all the more important to be on the lookout for plotting!
 
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ImperatorV said:
[X] Visit the Encampment
-[X] Do Not Visit the Fishing Contest
[X] Vigor Itself

This has the best odds of getting mage stuff, I think.

On another topic... I have a question. Everyone's always saying we need to save for an EFB. The thing is, Nameless didn't get any EFBs until very late into his adventure. Also, we're Progression, so we're inherently less reliant on Arete then Nameless was on BP, since we have another method of advancement via picks.

What makes it so that we "have" to get an EFB as soon as possible? Wouldn't it be better to cover all our bases, ensure we're safe, and then get an EFB?
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Nameless didn't have the Apocryphal Curse. 25 Arete options buy us safety for a long time, by putting us much higher above the Apocryphal curve than an equivalent expenditure of Arete otherwise would - and for progression-type EFBs, they effectively flatten the Apocryphal Curve a significant chunk by themselves.
 
The reasoning behind Ruling Ring is that the earlier we acquire ++Progression, the more we'll ultimately get from it. Honestly, it's hard to argue with that when our survival ultimately depends on outscaling and mitigating the Apocryphal Curse.
 
Unelemental said:
In a critical situation we should be looking for the best ways to survive rather than force ourselves into Preeminence. If we can afford the Ring after this, we'll take it. If not, then something else was clearly more important, so saving shouldn't be a consideration.
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I don't think Preeminence is bad as you seem to imply. 0.5 Rank is said to be a significant increase at our level and it also comes with ten plusses in stats. Taking care of its prerequisite in a lull in our activities just makes sense. Preeminence can be a perfectly fine choice for survival considering our weakness in esoteric stuff, in which Rank is a partial answer to. Picking it now means our freedom in choosing builds increases, not decreases.
 
Orm Embar said:
The logic behind Ruling Ring is that the earlier we acquire ++Progression, the more we'll ultimately get from it. Honestly, it's hard to argue with the logic when our survival ultimately depends on outscaling and mitigating the Apocryphal Curse.
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The counter-point is if we never get it; other EFBs are competitive with it in their own ways and it's bad for us if we spend 9 Arete on a Preeminence then don't finish the job for the full Ruling Ring any time soon after that.
 
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