A Simple Transaction I

Enohthree · Jun 9, 2020

[X] Blademight
[X] The Wandering Caravan

I'll go against the grain and say Caravan. Do you know why?

Rihaku said:
You don't really need healing, but perhaps some potions would be useful. And information as well...

You know when's the worst time to buy a healing potion?
While you're badly injured in front of a merchant who knows you really need his wares.
You know when's the best time to buy a healing potion?
When you're at full health and you've just come off an encounter with no injuries, and the merchant knows this.

Redshirt Army · Jun 9, 2020

I do have to admit that plan G A R D E N is surprisingly appealing to me. The 2 Arete into Dominion: Life will be paid back when we eventually go for Ruling Ring, so we'd only be permanently spending 7 Arete - and on a rare, exclusive, pure potential option.

I normally wouldn't go for it due to short term concerns, but it has excellent odds with the Burly Bros, so we shouldn't be in that bad a spot to start with - and that's all we really need, as a Progression Type Cursebearer. Once we start scaling, we don't stop.

Plus, it's by far the best choice for long-term Gisena relevance.

Lealope · Jun 9, 2020

LordOfMurder said:
The evidence of Rihaku's foot fetish is basically overwhelming at this point.

If there's one thing Rihaku is good at as a QM, it's knowing what his audience wants. After Imperia...

Well, I'm not sure if it's his foot fetish he's catering to.

Simon_Jester · Jun 9, 2020

BrainInAJar said:
We get get a special attack through developing the Ring though. Either a super-buff or an instant blood-boiler or even a debilitating curse paid with our blood. There's many ways of developing it, really. And if we manage to get the Brutes on board, offense will be less of a priority too.

I'm pretty sure we're gonna run into a significant number of enemies who don't have blood.

Also, personally I want Zweihander but to continue piggyback-carrying Gisena, because hands free in dangerous situation. But I am a heretic.

Byzantine · Jun 9, 2020

ImperatorV said:
Unless you have a major objection to Fisher King, I would like to call in the favor please and thank you.

It is not my favored build, as I worry about the odd combination of farming with Decimator and Apocryphal, but that is not impossible to overcome, so.

[X] Fisher King
[X] The Amiable Brutes

Simon_Jester said:
Also, personally I want Zweihander but to continue piggyback-carrying Gisena, because hands free in dangerous situation. But I am a heretic.

Thankfully Zweihander is a 3-pick no arete option, so we will probably get it at some point purely due to lacking arete or wanting to save up for something.

Simon_Jester · Jun 9, 2020

@Byzantine

I know you've had a favor called in, but what do you think of Blademight versus Full Might?

Citrus · Jun 9, 2020

[X] Blademight
[X] The Amiable Brutes

vali · Jun 9, 2020

Rihaku said:
[ ] Bloodmight - Domain: Life, Chief Dominion, Echo of the Forebear [9 Arete]

Unlike Undying Vanguard, the power boost of blood can be used at full power on people who don't really trust us, such as the Amiable Brutes or the Paragon.
The call of the Temple attached to the Ring, so empowering the ring strikes me as a solid way to unravel the Temple's mysteries.

Other than that, all the remaining benefits are obvious. Can bring Gisena, heal, build towards the Ruling Ring, fight better, ect... An all-around solid pick that patches our holes and builds towards the future. It's weaker than fullmight or blademight but still strong enough for my purposes.

Rihaku said:
[ ] Full Might - Opalescence, Iridescence, Echo of the Forebear, A Thousand Cuts, Undying Vanguard [14 Arete]

A straightforward build. Not much to say here. Undying Vanguard will work really well with Gisena but poorly with strangers like the brutes.

Rihaku said:
[ ] Blademight - Ruinous Valor [Zweihander], Magic-Defeating Stance, Hero-Defeating Stance [14 Arete]

I like Gisena, and so I'd rather not duplicate her power and then abandon her for being too weak.

The stances are cool and it's powerful, but other than that nothing jumps out at me. It doesn't even build towards Once and Future like Bloodmight does.

Rihaku said:
[ ] Mage Lord - Azure Moon, Linear Halo [14 Arete]

As much as I like this magic, I'm getting really tired of endless close brushes with death, and this magic is only somewhat able to fix this problem. Also dislike the anti-synergy with the ring and the fact that research will take time.

Rihaku said:
[ ] Fisher King - Dominion: Life, Gardener's Hallow [9 Arete]

Again, tired of all the close brushes with death. We have like a thousand years to conquer the world, but right now we have curses breathing down our neck and Ber training to kill us and Astral lords gunning for us and a hit on our head and the Tyrants Doom turning every social encounter into a minefield and a Temple to conquer. It's just not the time to get greedy. And besides, the ring offers some cool and decently versatile powers, making this less necessary.

...

[X] Bloodmight
[X] The Amiable Brutes

Bloodmight has plot hooks with the Temple, fixes lots of problems, keeps Gisena with us, builds towards the future.

I like the Brutes. Plus we don't die if we lose! Amazing! What an incredible innovation in fighting! Maybe Hunger can learn something from that!

There are some risks
-The Doom could cause problems, though hopefully they'd just leave without any fights.
-If we lose the spar things could get awkward. What if we beat the Temple together and the first favor is to give them the Temple treasure and the second favor is that we never try to take that treasure back? Not ideal, but I guess that's a problem we'll face when we get to it. Maybe some monster will kill them before they can call in their favors?

I'll switch to caravan if the Paragon starts winning.

Rihaku · Jun 9, 2020

Shard said:
The long term potential option is.. ..stronger.. than at least 2 other power options against the amiable brutes? What is it hiding!?

Perhaps they're inclined to take it easy against a master fisherman?

game recognize game, that's all there is to it

George said:
[ ] Blademight - Ruinous Valor [Zweihander], Magic-Defeating Stance, Hero-Defeating Stance [14 Arete]
I feel like this commits us to a build path with our Arete and it's one I'm hesitant to take. Even so it does seem strong

Mm, it doesn't commit you to Stances, though it does somewhat commit you to Forebear's Blade Advancements insofar as they provide great synergy with Stances.

George said:
[ ] Full Might - Opalescence, Iridescence, Echo of the Forebear, A Thousand Cuts, Undying Vanguard [14 Arete]
Having a complete build is really rather nice and would let us pursue 3 pick advancements in relative safety

Yup!

George said:
[ ] Mage Lord - Azure Moon, Linear Halo [14 Arete]
magic is pretty cool, why not follow up on Apex and become a warrior-mage in full?

Taking an option that's synergistic with the previous? I'm... not sure how you guys would feel about that...

Genesys said:
Not too much to argue here, since this is like consolidation before the arguing.

There will be no consolidation for this build vote! There may be eliminations though!

Redshirt Army said:
And since Bloodmight is feasible, I'm strongly incentivized to pick it, since the value of an early 25 Arete option is obscene. If there's one thing we know from EFB, it's that 10 Beyond Point options are the shiiiiit.

Ruling Ring is insane, that's true. Careful you don't assemble a Last Alliance against you, Tyrant who drains the life of the earth!

ImperatorV said:
Man, how did Hunger figure out she was indicating an enemy was there? I wouldn't have caught it without the next section. Darn superhuman intelligence and social skills people sending coded messages everywhere.

They've had the code since a while back, see the update where Hunger met the pirates!

ImperatorV said:
Gisena and Hunger's skills are a pretty good matchup for this guy. He tries to do standard tricky mage things, Gisena figures out what he did and Hunger punishes him for it.

Yup, the mage is actually much more dangerous than the Dreadbeast to most builds. You guys chose Gisena and have pretty high AGI, resulting in reasonably favorable odds against him. High-level Soul Evocation is formidable!

Xalvitor said:
Under most circumstances, I would push for mage Lord, unfortunately, we are quite in need of magic that gives immediate power.

The Lord and King builds will withdraw from the Temple for a couple of days to explore the magic systems before venturing in deeper.

formalAI said:
What was the +?? We don't seem to have gotten anything extra apart from the 3 picks and 2 Arete? Am I missing something?

Read and find out!

Thomasfoolery said:
Does it follow the trend of initial mitigations (Adding on to Huntress' Moon proc chance or something for example) or is it like Feast of lives with a set effect for each?

Closer to the former.

Microwave MKII said:
Anyway, I know I said I wanted a Warrior-lord build but man, Moonscape: The Gardens of Hunger sure does sound like a nice change of pace

Gardening quest! Comfy gardening updates! An actual reason to go all-out when fishing...

ImperatorV · Jun 10, 2020

I have heard people say that Fisher King is risky - I tell you, it is not! It is the opposite of risky. As of now, we are powerful enough that we can't get anything out of the outermost temple any more, and we must soon venture deeper. How about, before doing that, we take some prep time! Preparing for dungeons is important after all. We can grow some fruit boosting our stats and rank, Gisena's stats and abilities, get some healing items and other consumables, and venture into the middle lair of the Temple well-equipped and with several more picks then we otherwise would have had! This gives much improved safety and power. Sure, we waste a small number of days of the mitigated Apocryphal, but better that then taking huge risks (although telling this thread not to take huge risks may be a lost cause). And with Dominion: Life the growth will be fast, we won't be wasting much time.

Furthermore, the Fisher King plan spends only nine Arete, leaving us in a good position to get Chief Dominion soon (further boosting Garderner, and also getting us progress towards Ruling Ring).

For those voting for Undying Vanguard, Fisher King leaves enough Arete to get Undying Vanguard in the next update, and is vital for ensuring Gisena stays relevant long-term! Vanguard only keeps her alive, it does not allow her to contribute, and a off-tank is only so valuable. Gardener allows us to power up Gisena and any other allies to being relevant, and it leaves enough Arete to afford Vanguard the next update. Undying Vanguard appears practically every update, but Gardener's Hallow is likely to never appear again. And when else are we going to find something so good for boosting our allies? Maybe never. Full Might and Bloodmight only keep Gisena relevant in the short-term.

Rihaku · Jun 10, 2020

vali said:
-If we lose the spar things could get awkward. What if we beat the Temple together and the first favor is to give them the Temple treasure and the second favor is that we never try to take that treasure back? Not ideal, but I guess that's a problem we'll face when we get to it. Maybe some monster will kill them before they can call in their favors?

They'd only need one favor for that! Hunger is a man of his word.

Simon_Jester said:
I'm pretty sure we're gonna run into a significant number of enemies who don't have blood.

Also, personally I want Zweihander but to continue piggyback-carrying Gisena, because hands free in dangerous situation. But I am a heretic.

Princess carry only really makes sense when you don't need to use the sword!

Or when you can use the sword in your mouth. Or perhaps wield it with the Evening Sky...

vali · Jun 10, 2020

Rihaku said:
The non-Might options will withdraw to outside the Temple in order to develop their respective magics, purchasing safety at the cost of time. The Might options will push onwards into the Temple, saving time.

Oh! Well in that case.

[X] Fisher King
[X] The Amiable Brutes

Xalvitor · Jun 10, 2020

Rihaku said:
Ruling Ring is insane, that's true. Careful you don't assemble a Last Alliance against you, Tyrant who drains the life of the earth!

We can take 'em. -Sauron, second age, year 3429.

Rihaku said:
The Lord and King builds will withdraw from the Temple for a couple of days to explore the magic systems before venturing in deeper.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh.

Now I'm really torn. On one hand, I really want the one ring to rule them all. On the other hypothetical hand, I really want an magus-warrior...

OctarineShrike · Jun 10, 2020

[x]Mage Lord
[x]The Wandering Caravan

Rihaku · Jun 10, 2020

Poor Mage Lord. It offers an incredibly powerful magic system that you can use in combat, and with much greater short- and medium-term utility than even Gardener's Hallow... and yet it is neglected, perhaps even forgotten!

Maybe I should allow two-option approval voting for this vote as well? But last time the result was rather meh...

Dark Lord Bob · Jun 10, 2020

[X] Blademight
[X] The Shining Paragon

I'm personally not too worried about Dame Fairbright, but you know what they say: better to have epic mage-killing powers and not need them...

Byzantine · Jun 10, 2020

Simon_Jester said:
@Byzantine

I know you've had a favor called in, but what do you think of Blademight versus Full Might?

Blademight has mitigation, which is so completely absurd I'm questioning it. Especially since it probably leads to a 25 arete option that *also* has mitigation. It also adds immense offensive power, but it's a bit specialized as anti-magic.

Full might is your basic Knight build - sword special, defenses, protected party.

Which is better is situational and personal preference.

ImperatorV · Jun 10, 2020

I do love Mage Lord, but I can only put so much effort into arguments and I judged Fisher King as being more useful to our party members. Gisena was worried about being left behind, can't let that happen.

Byzantine · Jun 10, 2020

Rihaku said:
Poor Mage Lord. It offers an incredibly powerful magic system that you can use in combat, and with much greater short- and medium-term utility than even Gardener's Hallow... and yet it is neglected, perhaps even forgotten!

Maybe I should allow two-option approval voting for this vote as well? But last time the result was rather meh...

I know what you can do!

Rihaku said:
The Linear Halo imparts any one formal and systemic type of magic with power beyond reckoning, allowing its wielder to stretch the outer boundaries of its capabilities half a step above what might otherwise be possible, at the cost of preventing the acquisition (though not use) of other types of magic until the Outward Halo is taken. Gain +Int equal to your +Strength, +Wits equal to your +Agi, and +Wis equal to your +Con for ~~purposes of researching the associated magic type and crafting specific techniques~~ using it.

Muhahaha!

Rihaku · Jun 10, 2020

ImperatorV said:
I do love Mage Lord, but I can only put so much effort into arguments and I judged Fisher King as being more useful to our party members. Gisena was worried about being left behind, can't let that happen.

Mage Lord can buff party members as well!

Dark Lord Bob said:
[X] Blademight
[X] The Shining Paragon

I'm personally not too worried about Dame Fairbright, but you know what they say: better to have epic mage-killing powers and not need them...

Putting that Hero-Defeating Stance to good work!

Byzantine · Jun 10, 2020

Gardeners is a massive utility boon. The downside of time isn't so important if Hunger isn't going to push deeper immediately, and next time we push deeper we'll have access to some moderate healing fruits and other simple goodies.

Shard · Jun 10, 2020

Rihaku said:
Poor Mage Lord. It offers an incredibly powerful magic system that you can use in combat, and with much greater short- and medium-term utility than even Gardener's Hallow... and yet it is neglected, perhaps even forgotten!

Maybe I should allow two-option approval voting for this vote as well? But last time the result was rather meh...

Mage Lord has a mere 40% ( 64% after reroll) chance of beating the Brutes. That's a big disadvantage!

Adding one or two more party members makes Fisher King competitive in even the short term, for sure.

Mozzy · Jun 10, 2020

[X] Blademight
[X] The Amiable Brutes

Going for this option for the power, the mitigation, and the 2nd arm. Restoring this guy to his previous potential will probably scale faster than getting new features.

Redshirt Army · Jun 10, 2020

Ah, why not:

[X] Fisher King
[X] The Amiable Brute

Although honestly almost all of these builds are very cool, in the end, so I'm not especially bothered by any of them.

TwistedJester · Jun 10, 2020

[X] Fisher King
[X] The Amiable Brutes

The Fact that we withdraw to develop support items and permanent buffs pretty much sells Fisher King for me. The reroll also seems to have no other use so better spend it on the Brutes so we don't waste a pick.

A Simple Transaction I

Hypersane

Cannon Fodder

Not yet invincible

The Internet

The Laughing One

The Internet

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The Internet

The Laughing One

The Internet

One and Many

Cannon Fodder

Tired Lurker King