A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
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Dark Abstraction
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Now then, on to the topic of bloodshed; specifically, how we need to do less of it and other people should do it quite a bit more.
I think that the Dreadnought's Bearing will help with this substantially. It's absolutely ludicrous CON gains will help with sustaining more harm before requiring the Second Form and the Protection will cause greater amounts of damage to be done to achieve that same level of harm to both forms, which gives us the very important gift of sustainability. Hunger still only has 1.5 lungs, so he very much likely has a hidden malus; this in conjunction with his proclivity for accepting harm to deal greater damage (that most fierce lesson of age and treachery), means that things which reduce the depreciation of his health (and thus combat capability) will allow him greater success in battle.
In addition, there are the benefits towards Tired and Exhausted mitigation. And I use that word for a reason; at the very foundation of Hunger's capabilities is Pressure, and the spiritual expenditure of vigor that entails. One could consider those conditions The Curse of the Finite Mana Bar. Diminishing the effects of such fundamental forces as the Tired and Exhausted conditions is going to be felt in greater breadth of viable tactics & strategy votes for the entire extent of the quest. And they stack multiplicatively with all other benefits of this nature (of which we already have one), so this is no small boon. Consider how many more times Form of Rage could safely proc in the future, how many more times we can use Fell Handed Stroke without worry or care.
And of course, given my preference for the Sharp Eye subvote, there is also the consideration of advancing Wits and Charisma to improve the social capabilities of Hunger. The Doom of the Tyrant looms, as does the prospect of our our tyranny and we still need to making decisions to assist with the eventual need toKill Six Billion Demons Conquer Ten Thousand Worlds. This will help with that. And depth perception is nothing to turn one's nose up at; it improves the effectiveness of ranged attacks (of which we use quite a substantial amount, as blade-winds are frequently used in our combat arsenal), which means that it will definitively improve our performance against enemies.
I think that the Dreadnought's Bearing will help with this substantially. It's absolutely ludicrous CON gains will help with sustaining more harm before requiring the Second Form and the Protection will cause greater amounts of damage to be done to achieve that same level of harm to both forms, which gives us the very important gift of sustainability. Hunger still only has 1.5 lungs, so he very much likely has a hidden malus; this in conjunction with his proclivity for accepting harm to deal greater damage (that most fierce lesson of age and treachery), means that things which reduce the depreciation of his health (and thus combat capability) will allow him greater success in battle.
In addition, there are the benefits towards Tired and Exhausted mitigation. And I use that word for a reason; at the very foundation of Hunger's capabilities is Pressure, and the spiritual expenditure of vigor that entails. One could consider those conditions The Curse of the Finite Mana Bar. Diminishing the effects of such fundamental forces as the Tired and Exhausted conditions is going to be felt in greater breadth of viable tactics & strategy votes for the entire extent of the quest. And they stack multiplicatively with all other benefits of this nature (of which we already have one), so this is no small boon. Consider how many more times Form of Rage could safely proc in the future, how many more times we can use Fell Handed Stroke without worry or care.
And of course, given my preference for the Sharp Eye subvote, there is also the consideration of advancing Wits and Charisma to improve the social capabilities of Hunger. The Doom of the Tyrant looms, as does the prospect of our our tyranny and we still need to making decisions to assist with the eventual need to
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That's specifically worse than stacking additively. Additionally, just increasing Con increases amount of effort we can output before getting Tired; presumably Rank does the same. Also, 7+ Con sounds nice, but that's just two Echo picks worth of stats.
Truly valuable reward, however, is healing.
Shard
One and Many
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Are there options to gain magic system access that do not require us to spend Arete?
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- Omniverse #1345
Retreat is probably being counted separately from yes/no. But Yes/No are entirely build dependent, so will likely be subsumed by the obviously-needed consolidation vote. With Yes being literally every build but stranglethorn and no being stranglethorn. (Which is why Yes is so far ahead).
Bleh. Why am I even trying. I've convinced literally no one and I hardly care.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Rune King's TSH effect is basically the Ring vote from EFB, and we all know how much that carried us through the game.
Dark Abstraction
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It's late and I'm shit at math, I'll take your word for it.
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- Omniverse #1345
In the very low chance we encounter one and it is able to catch up to us. Even before we took the initial agility upgrades on arrival we were faster than them in retreat (see us losing the reinforcements) and will still be faster than that after stranglethorn.
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
Think about how useful Stranglethorn is for SORD GUD! More bang for our buck, and also the more resources we invest into SORD GUD, the more GUD we SORD!
Shard
One and Many
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- Malaysia
Being wounded should slow us down. It slows people down in real life, and Rank is only partial mitigation against that.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
This is true, but we will be starting from farther away.
DarkSideBard
Flying, without moving on
I think the hope there is to retreat (with slightly worse Agi) and lean on a Hunger proc. Which is honestly part of the reason why it's a contentious option: actual chance of death.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
But like, grievously wounded. 'Barest tether of ghostly life' strikes me as suggesting his effective AGI is so low that even before Stranglethorn our effective speed is probably something like 40% of the original.
Basically, if you add 25% and 50% your total is 75%, while if you multiply you get 62.5%.
TSH is nowhere near as busted as Ring was lmao. Imagine Dominant/Prominence with AP doubling, All Stats++ and +1 scaling rank for just 9Arete. Add FOR and you are looking at 2+ Rank.
Funny thing about Ring is that majority doesn't even realize that it did anything, and those who do don't realize just how much it carried us. We pretty much won the quest with one 3BP expenditure and we didn't even realize it.
Dark Abstraction
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In all honesty, I generally tend to find Strength and Constitution to be less evocative or desirable than Agility. I was around to read Jounin Quest when it was running, and the principle of speed surmounting all stuck with me. So Stranglethorn honestly doesn't seem all that exciting to me. Yes, there's also the boost to Rank, but we're making gains to that reasonably enough and frankly if that's all it has going for it besides the stat trading I'd rather we look into what other Defining Traits might be around.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Lean on a Hunger proc?
And? We have a very low encounter chance to begin with. We still have Form of Rage. And our Con will be Doubling!
Are you ignoring that? We'll be at 52.5% hp, not 5%.
In fact now that I think about it, Stranglethorn will actually leave us at higher HP than the Cuts/Valor build!
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Dark Abstraction
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No, this is not how that works. Our total HP will be enhanced, but we will still be at the barest thread of life as the vote option states. If Stranglethorn could lolnope that malus then it wouldn't serve any purpose for Rihaku to even have written out the words because it would become the One True Vote Option, and Rihaku doesn't write those.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
The +8 Con works with our present, extremely low HP. Doubling 5% of HP is still, like 10% HP. We would still be squishy.
Fact is, FoR doesn't have a guaranteed proc chance and even a random mook has a good shot at killing us at this point or making us proc FoR (or die). You're ignoring details for convenience's sake.
The Cuts/Valor Build operates at a proper amount of HP, 50%. It has way better 'run the fuck away' abilities on the basis of not being a glass canon with abysmal movement speed.
Uh, it IS as busted as Ring, arguably moreso. Ring 'only' doubles BP effects. You still have a hardcap. TSH lets you bust right past them.
A Diagram spell might be limited at 4x Acceleration with Ring and BP (Acceleration). TSH Acceleration would be able to continuously scale up without limit (we ignore conceptual limits) or require BP. In that sense it's basically Logos instead of Truth.
There are situations where either build shines. For example, if you fight enemies who rely on temporary bursts of godspeed, Con build would allow you to just tank through while Agi build would get slaughtered. On the other hand, giant foes such as this Wyrm have vastly greater raw power than we do, but Agi can outmaneuver them.
That being said, Blade offers mainly Con and Str, Ring tends to give all stats and Evening does some Agi but that appears wholly secondary to Protection/Mental stats, so it's likely that we would end up focusing on Str/Con anyway. Echo of Forebearer goes from giving 3 stats to giving 5.8 stats, as an example. Willpower doubling also sounds nice.
Only
Honestly, not understanding why BP doubling beats TSH is a rather big red flag, ngl.
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Dark Abstraction
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That is how it would work, yes. Byzantine seems to have misunderstood the magnified overall ability to receive damage as Hunger having been healed by an equivalent amount to that heightened capacity. There is no indication that healing will occur, however, and the wording of the actual continuation vote options indicates it won't.
DarkSideBard
Flying, without moving on
Bluh. I meant Rage. Being dependent on going into Form of Rage to survive, if we meet any resistance while retreating.
In a sense, I guess it is Hunger who is being procced? He's the one who has to get mad for it to work, lol.
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The continuation options don't take our picks into account. Obviously. They can't. We could pick No and go something stupid like opalescence, cut and Valor.
I just know Rihaku kept plugging increased Con as viable during the Hunt for Healing incident, so perhaps I do have it wrong.
I'm not sure why it matters. We'll be healed to full if we wait awhile, so the difference is quite short-term.
Ah, yes, that's accurate. Assuming we meet resistance that can keep up with us, anyway. Which is apparently unlikely.
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