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A Simple Transaction I

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BrainInAJar said:
Oh man, we were absolutely wrecked out here and still people don't want Gisena as an off-tank. While the wurm was a great example of a foe Nullity would be less than effective against, she would come in very useful when it comes to take on the Knights that seemingly dominate this part of the Temple. It would help our ability to grind immensely, really.
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Yup, Undying Vanguard would have lots of utility in this situation, and it synergizes well with Form of Rage on two fronts. For even better Rage synergy you could go +Rank as well! Gotta get those tasty +Ranks when they're presented or you'll stay forever a pleb.
 
Rihaku said:
Yup, Undying Vanguard would have lots of utility in this situation, and it synergizes well with Form of Rage on two fronts. For even better Rage synergy you could go +Rank as well! Gotta get those tasty +Ranks when they're presented or you'll stay forever a pleb.
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Rank + Echo x2 + Vanguard would be a sweet 5 Arete build, assuming we can actually get outside and return with Gisena. Having cleared this initial hurdle, we'd have all the strengths of Regiment except for Fall of Night and be sitting pretty atop a respectable 4.3 Rank. Having a companion also increases the chances of Rage, apparently not such a sure thing, even if the character implications are execrable in this particular case. I really thought picking 'the will to go on' would have patched that!
 
Rihaku said:
Though it's greedy, Gardener's Hallow is quite survivable in this situation with +Echos and Yes + Retreat. I think you guys should take a second look at it since it patches so many utility holes and gives you branching advancement trees (sometimes literal!). You don't get many pure potential 7-Arete options.
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Pure potential huh... We do have a weakness in out-of-combat stuff. It's not super relevant to the temple itself, which is why I've been disfavoring it so far. However, if we can get through this with a pure potential FB, we'll be well set for quite a while. And it's not like this is the last thing we're getting out of the Temple, I wouldn't be surprised if we have another chance at Ruinous Valor or Stranglethorn within a few updates.

[X] Yes, Obviously
[X] The Ring of Power - Gardener's Hallow
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] Retreat to the Antechamber

Rihaku said:
Yup, Undying Vanguard would have lots of utility in this situation, and it synergizes well with Form of Rage on two fronts. For even better Rage synergy you could go +Rank as well! Gotta get those tasty +Ranks when they're presented or you'll stay forever a pleb.
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Going for Rank is hard when there's so many other good options it's mutually exclusive with. I guess we could get it and Gardener's Hallow, but that is tipping into excessively greedy. Have to live to grow strong after all.
 
Anything that removes the ability to cure our Lost Parts is less than ideal, given we already gave up unshattered.

Also pls. Let's do the Naruto thing and get ourselves some swanky eye powers.

That aside, Stranglethorn is super cool in that there's compounded progression for things we repeatedly do. But the Agility Stat getting dumbed down because of it vexes me to no end given our current situation. Face tanking would be beyond amazing, yes, but RUN AWAY is super important given how everything worthwhile here practically out-STRONKs us.

Basically:
Giving Up Limbs Permanently Is Bad
Stranglethorn May Strangle Us
Super Eye Powers and Sekiro Martial Stances are Gr8.
 
Orm Embar said:
Rank + Echo x2 + Vanguard would be another sweet 7 Arete build, assuming we can actually get outside and return with Gisena. Having cleared this initial hurdle, we'd have all the strengths of Regiment except for Fall of Night and be sitting pretty atop a respectable 4.3 Rank. Having a companion also increases the chances of Rage, apparently not such a sure thing, even if the character implications are execrable in this particular case. I really thought picking 'the will to go on' would have patched that!
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An echo isn't worth 2 arete, i don't think. So go rank + one echo + vanguard for 5 arete.
 
For people picking rune king: remember it To Shatter Heaven does nothing at all for us until we actually have a magic system, and we will be giving up unknown but likely equally powerful perks that require both eyes.
 
Current vote count?

Taka said:
Anything that removes the ability to cure our Lost Parts is less than ideal, given we already gave up unshattered.

Also pls. Let's do the Naruto thing and get ourselves some swanky eye powers.

That aside, Stranglethorn is super cool in that there's compounded progression for things we repeatedly do. But the Agility Stat getting dumbed down because of it vexes me to no end given our current situation. Face tanking would be beyond amazing, yes, but RUN AWAY is super important given how everything worthwhile here practically out-STRONKs us.

Basically:
Giving Up Limbs Permanently Is Bad
Stranglethorn May Strangle Us
Super Eye Powers and Sekiro Martial Stances are Gr8.
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It looks like every Ruinous Valor pick is going Zweihander, so you'd be safe to take that! Alternatively, Gardener's Hallow is very appealing if you want to give yourself arbitrary powers...

ImperatorV said:
Pure potential huh... We do have a weakness in out-of-combat stuff. It's not super relevant to the temple itself, which is why I've been disfavoring it so far. However, if we can get through this with a pure potential FB, we'll be well set for quite a while. And it's not like this is the last thing we're getting out of the Temple, I wouldn't be surprised if we have another chance at Ruinous Valor or Stranglethorn within a few updates.

[X] Yes, Obviously
[X] The Ring of Power - Gardener's Hallow
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] Retreat to the Antechamber

Going for Rank is hard when there's so many other good options it's mutually exclusive with. I guess we could get it and Gardener's Hallow, but that is tipping into excessively greedy. Have to live to grow strong after all.
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Rank + Hallow would be very good, yes. Better than Echoes if you can get to the antechamber safely. A short window of vulnerability, but the extra Rank would help somewhat...
 
Orm Embar said:
I do, the Wits bonus is useful for coming up with tactics mid-combat and the Charisma would be relevant if we encounter adventurers here. Expanding To Shatter Heaven is overpowered, but we don't actually have any other magic systems, making it questionably useful in the short term. Which is what we should be prioritizing, since the risks of the Temple have been hammered home again and again. This makes it a perfect pretext to take an option that'll heal Hunger, erase one of the scars left by the Tyrant.

If either Microwave or Priest object to healing Hunger's eye/arm on aesthetic grounds, I'll vote for Einhander or Rune King over their alternatives, but otherwise it'd be really nice to make Hunger better. Emotional scars take time and character development, but we can at least heal old hurts as a consolation for all the shit we put him through.
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While I would be a little sad if we healed his eye (I'm pretty fond of Hunger's face/head design), I'm actually not opposed to getting the other arm back at all! Zweihander is actually the upgrade I'd rather have between all the heal/don't heal eye or arm options, even while ignoring all aesthetic opinions.

also I guess it would force me to git gud and draw two hands/stop being lazy wwwww
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Byzantine on Jun 7, 2020 at 12:31 AM, finished with 84 posts and 18 votes.
  • [X] No
    [X] Hunger - Stranglethorn
    [X] Undying Vanguard
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing (7 Arete, 3 picks)
    [X] Keep Up Momentum
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing (7 Arete, 3 picks)
    -[X] Rune King
    [X] Keep Up Momentum
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
    [X] No
    [X] Hunger - Stranglethorn
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing (7 Arete, 3 picks)
    -[X] Sharp of Eye
    [X] Keep Up Momentum
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Keep Up Momentum
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Ruinous Valor (3 picks)
    -[X] Zweihander
    [X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Evening Sky - Opalescence
    [X] The Ring of Power - Gardener's Hallow (7 Arete, 2 picks)
    [X] Keep Up Momentum
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] The Ring of Power - Gardener's Hallow
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
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I'm leaning towards an extreme defense strategy right now. And as much as I want some farking wisdom... somebody has to think about the fact that when we get more magic systems, we're going to have ranged attacks in them too hopefully.

[X] Yes, Obviously
[X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing (7 Arete, 3 picks)
-[X] Sharp of Eye
[X] Keep Up Momentum
 
So... my problem here is the only build I don't like is Rune King. Everything else I'm fine with. I'd like Stranglethorn but I can understand the wariness about the agility cost. Though I'll note Echo gives +agi naturally, and we'll be more inclined to take it if it's worth +2 might rather than +1 might (This makes Echo nearly the equivalent of a 2 arete option!), so I think we might actually end up taking agility more often as a hilarious side effect of taking Stranglethorn.
 
Conjured Blade said:
I'm leaning towards an extreme defense strategy right now. And as much as I want some farking wisdom... somebody has to think about the fact that when we get more magic systems, we're going to have ranged attacks in them too hopefully.

[X] Yes, Obviously
[X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing (7 Arete, 3 picks)
-[X] Sharp of Eye
[X] Keep Up Momentum
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If you want broad defensive coverage, Echoes + Rank + Undying Vanguard is a very appealing alternative... get AGI + CON, get Gisena to tank and dispel, Rank provides all-around defense that's hard to replicate!
 
Byzantine said:
I was talking to Orb's 7 Arete expenditure plan i quoted in that post, not something anyone is currently voting on.
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[ ] Yes, Obviously. Choose 3 picks below. Gain 1 Echo of the Forebear. Hunger is badly wounded, having less than half his spiritual corpus remaining.
[ ] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[ ] Feat: Apex - +.2 Astral Rank (2 picks)
[ ] Undying Vanguard [5 Arete]

His build doesn't spend 2 Arete for an Echo, it's a 5 Arete build.


Rihaku said:
If you want broad defensive coverage, Echoes + Rank + Undying Vanguard is a very appealing alternative... get AGI + CON, get Gisena to tank and dispel, Rank provides all-around defense that's hard to replicate!
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I would love to do this, but I'm not at all certain we can actually re-unite with Gisena in the short term so I'm not willing to plan around it.
 
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George said:
[ ] Yes, Obviously. Choose 3 picks below. Gain 1 Echo of the Forebear. Hunger is badly wounded, having less than half his spiritual corpus remaining.
[ ] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[ ] Feat: Apex - +.2 Astral Rank (2 picks)
[ ] Undying Vanguard [5 Arete]

His build doesn't spend 2 Arete for an Echo, it's a 5 Arete build.



I would love to do this, but I'm not at all certain we can actually re-unite with Gisena in the short term so I'm not willing to plan around it.
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Read what I quoted, not what his post currently says. Sneaky Mod edited it quickly enough it didn't show the "last edited" button, but I ninja-quoted.

...My assumption is he realized exactly what I was pointing out and changed it.
 
ImperatorV said:
Pure potential huh... We do have a weakness in out-of-combat stuff. It's not super relevant to the temple itself, which is why I've been disfavoring it so far. However, if we can get through this with a pure potential FB, we'll be well set for quite a while. And it's not like this is the last thing we're getting out of the Temple, I wouldn't be surprised if we have another chance at Ruinous Valor or Stranglethorn within a few updates.

[X] Yes, Obviously
[X] The Ring of Power - Gardener's Hallow
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] Retreat to the Antechamber



Going for Rank is hard when there's so many other good options it's mutually exclusive with. I guess we could get it and Gardener's Hallow, but that is tipping into excessively greedy. Have to live to grow strong after all.
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I thought similarly, it's the god-stat but compounding risk with risk is a bad policy. Your reasoning on taking a second Echo of the Forebear here?
 
ImperatorV said:
Agility has been vitally important in the Temple fights we've been in so far. More is good.
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I'm going to reiterate what I realized above:

Stranglethorn doubles our con and str at the cost of 20% of our agi.

...Our easiest way of gaining both con and str also boosts our agi. So we'll probably end up taking Echo more often, and hence getting higher agility, than we would otherwise. Because it's a no arete option that's now worth 4.8 stats rather than 3!

There isn't even a period where we are slowed by it. We literally lose the speed we got from the first Knight... and nothing more.
 
Byzantine said:
Read what I quoted, not what his post currently says. Sneaky Mod edited it quickly enough it didn't show the "last edited" button, but I ninja-quoted.

...My assumption is he realized exactly what I was pointing out and changed it.
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yes his arete total was wrong, but the build I said there gets Two copies of Echo of the Forebear
so the build he said still doesn't pay 2 arete for an echo
 
George said:
yes his arete total was wrong, but the build I said there gets Two copies of Echo of the Forebear
so the build he said still doesn't pay 2 arete for an echo
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Right, I think he was going to assume it cost the 2 arete then realized it didn't have to and edited, and since I was looking at the original post I made the same false assumption. My bad.
 
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