A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Whew, by the skin of our teeth.
This could come in handy pretty soon. Depending on the Temple layout. If we're able to eventually maintain a zone of control we can slowly expand from it. Potentially sucking up adventurer's into our enterprise.
This could come in handy pretty soon. Depending on the Temple layout. If we're able to eventually maintain a zone of control we can slowly expand from it. Potentially sucking up adventurer's into our enterprise.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Interestingly the Temple trapping us makes that turn against it. Hard.
Actually, Unshattered is far more powerful than both of those combined. That's part of why I refuse to pick it after we threw aside unshattered.
Anyway, about Stranglethorn: that the Con and Str boosts are retroactive is incredible. The rank boost not being retroactive means we need to get it now to optimize further rank growth.
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Rihaku
The Internet
Stranglethorn does give a considerable amount of immediate power (lots of +Str and +Con), but so far you've mostly been relying your AGI to carry fights in the Temple... even massive STR and CON wouldn't have helped too much against this foe, for example. In certain matchups you would be nerfing yourself if you take it now. So it's not without risk.
Yup, it's pretty insane.
Ruinous Valor + Thousand Cuts would actually be very good here... it patches a major hole in your capabilities and gives you immediate power that's relevant to the situation. You could get your arm back!
You could take something like Double Echo + Hallow. A reasonable amount of power combined with an ultra greedy pick. If you live it'll pay off big time, and you do really need utility abilities outside of combat... plus, think of memes. Maybe you'll be able to re-create the King Fish, augmented to give a proper challenge to one of your stature...
Retreating to the Antechamber is not guaranteed to be safe, by the way. It's not very likely you'll be attacked, but it is certainly possible.
Yup, it's pretty insane.
Ruinous Valor + Thousand Cuts would actually be very good here... it patches a major hole in your capabilities and gives you immediate power that's relevant to the situation. You could get your arm back!
You could take something like Double Echo + Hallow. A reasonable amount of power combined with an ultra greedy pick. If you live it'll pay off big time, and you do really need utility abilities outside of combat... plus, think of memes. Maybe you'll be able to re-create the King Fish, augmented to give a proper challenge to one of your stature...
Retreating to the Antechamber is not guaranteed to be safe, by the way. It's not very likely you'll be attacked, but it is certainly possible.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'll note, in the long term this is just stupidly fucking busted. Does this apply to magics with levels of power beyond Accretion? Are we going to get a 400% speed boost and jailbreaking to learning literally all magics in our lifespan as a Cursebearer? Not immediately relevant but the value of that over time is just ridiculous horseshit, honestly. Pick up Sorcery and become a true Sorceror Eternal, with all the ridiculous synergies I'm sure must exist between that and Accretion given their commonalities.
And an eyepatch is a good aesthetic, even if it locks us out of having Special Eyes.
These two powers make for a nice combo; while their usefulness here is limited, healing our spirit form seems reasonable.
As a reminder;
[ ] To Shatter Heaven - An additional exertion by the Accursed will modify the Remittance for superior intuitive compatibility with the Cursebearer, increasing rate of advancement for Skills pertinent to the Remittance by 400%. Conceptual limits of the Remittance can be broken with sufficient training.
Take that with rune king and we get 4x speed for all future magics, lots of stats, and resistance to tired.
And of course, stranglethorn. Form of Rage + Stranglethorn = 6x power.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Plus, thinking about that... if we get an Outer Sorcery manual that's 2/3's of a 25 point purchase for potentially 7 points.
Enohthree
Hypersane
You know what's better than seven CON?
Eight!
Stranglethorn doubles not only future pluses but our current CON pool as well, which is currently 8.
On the flipside however, there's something to be said about going into this very underleveled, taking grievous injury twice over, and then somehow coming out with not only full health but also our other arm.
Rihaku
The Internet
Just remember, combat is not determined by the number of +Stats you have, but also by how they are distributed. There are many situations where Agi is more important than STR or CON, or even more important than STR and CON. Before rushing into Stranglethorn, make sure you want to lean into the concept of a character who is slow but powerful, with all the advantages and downsides that entails.
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- Location
- Rivendell
On the other hand, Unshattered would have also cost us To Shatter Heaven and any hope of repairing the blade. It only makes sense that we'll get less from options that don't sacrifice something as insane as To Shatter Heaven.
Rihaku
The Internet
Gardener's Hallow offers enormous utility even in the medium-term, yeah. Healing fruits and meats! Finally have access to healing potions! Embrace the glory of food-based power cultivation!
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
There are situations where a 20% decrease in AGI is bad enough that even a 100% increase in both Strength and Constitution leaves us worse off, sure.
I don't expect them to be particularly common, though.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
The note about Stranglethorn and Agility in the context of this Dungeon has turned me off of it a little. And if we don't pick Stranglethorn... We can take "Yes, Obviously" to still have some hp left. And then if we grabbed Ruinous Valor + Thousand Cuts or Dreadnought's Bearing, we could Keep up Momentum and take advantage of that increased %chance of foes we can handle and +0.5 Arete.
Alternatively, we could do "Yes, Obviously" and grab Opalescence and Gardener's Hallow for a greedy long-term build. That does only leave us with +Might, +Agility, and +Protection for our next encounter though. We've been lucky so far, perhaps it's best not to push it too much.
Alternatively, we could do "Yes, Obviously" and grab Opalescence and Gardener's Hallow for a greedy long-term build. That does only leave us with +Might, +Agility, and +Protection for our next encounter though. We've been lucky so far, perhaps it's best not to push it too much.
God, everything's so shiny. Look at that constitution bonus on Dreadnought's Bearing! Plus seven. Alongside the ability to heal our eye or expand To Shatter Heaven, with a protection upgrade as the proverbial cherry on top! Multiplicative Tired & Exhaustion mitigation, stacking with Amaranth Star's preexisting 25%! Gardener's Hallow makes me wish our circumstances were more conducive to taking it, but I don't think we can afford to branch out now.
Stranglethorn is of course amazing, but we've taken a lot of agility upgrades so far... yet it's available for an effective cost of two Arete, meaning we could potentially save up and snag another 7 pick down the road with a Form of Rage proc. Vanguard shouldn't be overlooked if we retreat either, with the revelation that it factors in our Form of Rage when buffing loyal companions up to our level of durability. For now:
[X] Yes, Obviously
[X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing (7 Arete, 3 picks)
-[X] Sharp of Eye
[X] Keep Up Momentum
Stranglethorn is of course amazing, but we've taken a lot of agility upgrades so far... yet it's available for an effective cost of two Arete, meaning we could potentially save up and snag another 7 pick down the road with a Form of Rage proc. Vanguard shouldn't be overlooked if we retreat either, with the revelation that it factors in our Form of Rage when buffing loyal companions up to our level of durability. For now:
[X] Yes, Obviously
[X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing (7 Arete, 3 picks)
-[X] Sharp of Eye
[X] Keep Up Momentum
- Location
- Pindorama
If you think Dreadnought is the shit with 7 Constitution and 1 Protection, Stranglethorn gets us 8 Constitution plusses and 5 Strength plusses. Plus makes all of our future advancements better. It's crazy.
I think the match-ups we'd now win from double strength and constitution outweigh the match-ups we'd lose from 20% less agility.
But in how many match ups agility is going to better than strength plus constitution combined times two? This is just a insane increase.
Yeah, I think it's cool too. We are kind of stuck in here for the forseeable future though, plus we need the power now. I'd be a much better pick if we actually had access to another magic system right ow.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Its double Con and Str for a mere 20% agility, though! That means we need 1 agi to get back to our speed before entering the Temple!
Actually, we're still faster than our starting speed cause the double echos from the knights.
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Rihaku
The Internet
It would have occurred this very fight! Or virtually any encounter where speed, timing, or reflexes are more important than raw power. Agility is valued more than STR and CON in the system itself for a reason. That's why Echo of the Forebear gives +Might, +Agility.
You do have Form of Rage. Spending 7 Arete on a greedy option would not be entirely inadvisable, especially since you're getting some Echoes alongside it.
Ruinous Valor + Thousand Cuts would be very strong here as well. You could somewhat safely take Zweihander! The utility of having two arms is not to be underestimated.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
@runeblue360: on the char sheet can you collapse the +'s into (x) + or something similar? We're getting enough its hard to read.
———
Remember the choices that have us maim hunger are a trade off of potential future power for immediate gain. We should be very wary of them if not absolutely needed, because Rihaku usually balances them so the long-term will outweigh the short term if you get there.
...which makes me wonder what the hell kind of thing requires two eyes, to be worth To Shatter Heaven!?
———
Remember the choices that have us maim hunger are a trade off of potential future power for immediate gain. We should be very wary of them if not absolutely needed, because Rihaku usually balances them so the long-term will outweigh the short term if you get there.
...which makes me wonder what the hell kind of thing requires two eyes, to be worth To Shatter Heaven!?
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- Location
- Pindorama
Yeah, but I don't think 20% of our Agility is worth our entire Strength and Constitution combined, which is the trade-off here. No way we'd make that choice if we were presented it.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
[X] Yes, Obviously
[X] Forebear's Blade - Ruinous Valor (3 picks)
-[X] Zweihander
[X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]
[X] Keep Up Momentum
A Valor/Cuts build. Lets us finally heal Hunger somewhat, patches the one obvious hole in our build (offense), doesn't sacrifice the agility that saved our ass twice in the last two updates, and unlocks Martial Stances, whatever those are. Not sure about Keep up Momentum, increased chance of things we can handle is not a guaranteed chance, but I feel like people are ignoring it as a possibility.
[X] Forebear's Blade - Ruinous Valor (3 picks)
-[X] Zweihander
[X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]
[X] Keep Up Momentum
A Valor/Cuts build. Lets us finally heal Hunger somewhat, patches the one obvious hole in our build (offense), doesn't sacrifice the agility that saved our ass twice in the last two updates, and unlocks Martial Stances, whatever those are. Not sure about Keep up Momentum, increased chance of things we can handle is not a guaranteed chance, but I feel like people are ignoring it as a possibility.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
There are situations that would be the case... but as we get stronger that's slowly going to be less and less the case. Besides which 20% is 1/5. This means we need 5 agi to do what 4 did previously... which is an extra pick every once in awhile.
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Rihaku
The Internet
It doesn't need to be in order to be a significant downside. You're not competing in a vacuum, but against the other options. Why take an option that leaves you worse off against the types of enemies you've already encountered in this dungeon when you could take Valor + Cuts or Dreadnought's Bearing? Especially with No reducing your hp to a sliver...
Despite the many times speed has been referenced in these and previous fight scenes, I don't think you guys have fully internalized how bad being slower is. It's not a crippling reduction, but it is a drag on your future speed both pragmatically and in terms of opportunity cost. Either you'll avoid +Agi because it's inefficient, falling further behind, or be forced to spend lots of picks on +Agi to maintain parity. This is to balance out the incredible benefits Stranglethorn offers otherwise. Yes, it's very strong. But you guys should have clear expectations about what will happen to your speed and not try to downplay it.
Hm... Keep Up is certainly more viable if you choose Yes, Obviously, and Ruinous + Thousand Cuts does patch a hole in your build. Triple Echo + Thousand Cuts would be even safer though!